814 replies to this topic

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

If that scene reminds them at all of MinaKushi, then it would be a NejiHina parallel. It still differs of course because Hinata was too far away to be pierced with Neji, but if she had, then it would have been a NejiHina / MinaKushi death parallel for sure. If some people want to make the argument that Hinata's love is in fact not romantic and is more of an.... extreme admiration/idol type of love, I guess that could be close to a motherly love? Eh....

It reminds them of this scene, as far as I'm able to tell:

http://www.mangapand...hapter-504.html

http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/614/13

I see similarities, but they are not identical. Basically both Hinata and Kushina threw themselves in front of Naruto to shield him. They were both willing to die for his sake, both protected him. This does show that they have something in common: their love for Naruto, the desire to make the ultimate sacrifice for his sake. If NH wish to claim that Kushina and Hinata are alike, they can find evidence for that in this chapter. I'd say that Sakura has had way more similarities with Kushina, though. We will have to wait and see if Kishi will continue to draw similarities with Hinata and Kushina in the chapters to come.

@Poison_In_Your_Coffee

I personally wouldn't want Sakura to be loving Naruto with part of her reasoning being that Sasuke is evil and therefore not an option. That would make it look as if Sakura would only be with Naruto because she couldn't get Sasuke as she wanted. Her confession to Naruto even left that impression.

That would establish Naruto as the silver medal. It would also leave people under the impression that if Sasuke had never become bad that Naruto would've never had a chance with Sakura. Proof of it is people's reactions to the Road to Ninja AU Sasuke being a flirt around Sakura and her liking it, some people joked about how Naruto now didn't have a chance against this charming Sasuke.

I don't really see how Kishi could avoid making it seem like Naruto is the second choice. Sakura will have to get over Sasuke for NS to happen. Something has to trigger that. The very fact that she loved Sasuke first will always be there. The only way I can personally imagine is that not only does Sasuke become good again but confesses his own love for Sakura. If Sakura then turns him, this good loving Sasuke, down for Naruto's sake, that would establish Naruto as her first choice and true love. (And even then, people still could speculate that if Sasuke hadn't gone evil in the first place, SS would have happened, and so on. It will be extremely hard to shake the impression that Naruto is the second choice.)

The thing that gets me is this: if Sakura is still confused whether she loves Sasuke or Naruto more, that implies quite a bit. If Sakura at this point (chapter 614, after the summit arc) cannot say that she prefers good, kind, supportive Naruto over murderer, wanted criminal, terrorist Sasuke, what does that say about her feelings? Doesn't that imply that her feelings for Sasuke are so strong that even the fact that he's a murderer barely stains them? What does it say that Naruto can be absolutely wonderful person with all these great qualities and Sakura still has to ponder if she still might prefer the terrorist guy? What is confusing her so much? What is there left for Naruto to do to make realize her love for him? What is left for Sasuke to do to make Sakura say "no thanks"? Wouldn't this had happened already, if it were happen at all?

Like Naruto, Sakura also knows that before Sasuke became dark he was able to care for people. If it can be shown that while Sakura still cares for Sasuke like Naruto does but now understands that what she feels for Naruto is true love then that would be it.

I don't disagree with this. I mostly just wonder how it can be done.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 21 December 2012 - 05:57 PM.

[kirabook]

It reminds them of this scene, as far as I'm able to tell:

http://www.mangapand...hapter-504.html

http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/614/13

I see similarities, but they are not identical. Basically both Hinata and Kushina threw themselves in front of Naruto to shield him. They were both willing to die for his sake, both protected him. This does show that they have something in common: their love for Naruto, the desire to make the ultimate sacrifice for his sake. If NH wish to claim that Kushina and Hinata are alike, they can find evidence for that in this chapter. I'd say that Sakura has had way more similarities with Kushina, though. We will have to wait and see if Kishi will continue to draw similarities with Hinata and Kushina in the chapters to come.

MINATO and Kushina threw themselves in front of Naruto. NEJI and Hinata threw themselves in front of Naruto. If the two scenes are to be compared, it would be a NejiHina >>> Naruto moment just like a MinaKushi >>> Naruto moment. Why is the other male always left out of the equation when it comes to some NH arguments?

It is damning to compare Hinata's love for Naruto to Kushina's love for Naruto. The "Love is love" excuse is kinda terrible. The love you have for your grandma or your own infant son is not like the romantic feelings you would have towards a significant other. That's just gross. If you compare Hinata's love for Naruto to Kushina's, you're instantly making her love platonic rather than romantic. NH is better off not comparing Hinata to Kushina because it does not help make NH stronger at all.

That is what I meant by Hinata cannot be compared to Kushina because people are comparing them incorrectly. You aren't supposed to compare their love for Naruto, that's not how parallels work, Kushina is Naruto's mother, not his lover. You're supposed to compare their characters and how they are around the person they have romantic feelings for. If Hinata is compared to how Kushina was around Minato, their similarities become extinct.

If NH can fit Hinata into the MinaKushi parallel rather than the NaruKushi parallel, then it would make more sense, but it's not possible because there aren't really any similarities other than love coming from 1 side. (It's missing the other half)

Edited by kirabook, 21 December 2012 - 05:47 PM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

MINATO and Kushina threw themselves in front of Naruto. NEJI and Hinata threw themselves in front of Naruto. If the two scenes are to be compared, it would be a NejiHina >>> Naruto moment just like a MinaKushi >>> Naruto moment. Why is the other male always left out of the equation when it comes to some NH arguments?

In this instance, they don't compare the MinaKushi relationship to NaruHina. They compare Hinata to Kushina. Just the woman to the other woman.

That is what I meant by Hinata cannot be compared to Kushina because people are comparing them incorrectly. You aren't supposed to compare their love for Naruto, that's not how parallels work, Kushina is Naruto's mother, not his lover. You're supposed to compare their characters and how they are around the person they have romantic feelings for. If Hinata is compared to how Kushina was around Minato, their similarities become extinct.

See, here's the thing: you can make parallers out of pretty much everything. All it takes is some similarity between two situations, two characters and so on, and then you can study and compare them. Some parallers fit better, some fit less. Gaara and Naruto are parallers to each other. Sasuke is a paraller to Naruto. Karin is paraller to Sakura. Sannin are paraller to team 7. Sakura begging to be able to join Sasuke in Sasuke Retrieval Arc is paraller to Sakura asking to be able to join Sasuke in the summit arc. There's plenty more.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 21 December 2012 - 06:08 PM.

[kirabook]

In this instance, they don't compare the MinaKushi relationship to NaruHina. They compare Hinata to Kushina. Just the woman to the other woman.

Even still, the type of love is not the same. In this particular situation where other felt that they could not pull Naruto out of the way fast enough, they would gladly jump in front of Naruto to protect him. I see this as less of a brave thing to do for someone you love and more of a very stupid thing to do TO the one you love. Even if Sakura jumped in front of Naruto just then, I wouldn't have liked it, it's too sad and sacrificial and it isn't really helping at all.

I already explained comparing Kushina's love to Hinata's love is useless, the love is not the same unless you have decided Hinata's love has been platonic and motherly all this time.

[PhenixElite]

In this instance, they don't compare the MinaKushi relationship to NaruHina. They compare Hinata to Kushina. Just the woman to the other woman.

Yeah thats even worse, because they have defenitly no similarities.

Ive got a question. Its no offense against you or anything bad, just a normal question.
Why are you creating an account on a fanpage of a pairing you dont support? I mean i understand that some other pairing fans are lurking around in this forum, but why create an account?

Again its nothing against you

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Even still, the type of love is not the same. In this particular situation where other felt that they could not pull Naruto out of the way fast enough, they would gladly jump in front of Naruto to protect him. I see this as less of a brave thing to do for someone you love and more of a very stupid thing to do TO the one you love. Even if Sakura jumped in front of Naruto just then, I wouldn't have liked it, it's too sad and sacrificial and it isn't really helping at all.

Similarity is not the same as identical. I'm sure you agree. Kushina was not in love with her evil teammate. Sakura was. Surely this does not mean that Kushina and Sakura are not alike?

Yeah thats even worse, because they have defenitly no similarities.

I honestly don't remember the MinaKushi parts well enough to compare them to NH. My impression is that Sakura is more similar to Kushina, but I'm open to Hinata=Kushina arguments.

Ive got a question. Its no offense against you or anything bad, just a normal question.
Why are you creating an account on a fanpage of a pairing you dont support? I mean i understand that some other pairing fans are lurking around in this forum, but why create an account?

Again its nothing against you

I've been lurking here since 2009 because of my interest in hearing arguments from "the other side". I made this account so I could sometimes voice my own opinions from non-NS point of view. Many discussions on this site are interesting, but often lack point of view of someone not supporting NS. Oh, and it's no problem that you ask. I get why you would be curious.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 21 December 2012 - 06:19 PM.

[PhenixElite]

Similarity is not the same as identical. I'm sure you agree. Kushina was not in love with her evil teammate. Sakura was. Surely this does not mean that Kushina and Sakura are not alike?


I honestly don't remember the MinaKushi parts well enough to compare them to NH. My impression is that Sakura is more similar to Kushina, but I'm open to Hinata=Kushina arguments.


I've been lurking here since 2009 because of my interest in hearing arguments from "the other side". I made this account so I could sometimes voice my own opinions from non-NS point of view. Many discussions on this site are interesting, but often lack point of view of someone not supporting NS. Oh, and it's no problem that you ask. I get why you would be curious.

Well good to know. Respect!
I would go crazy to watch a other fandoms comments all the time.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Similarity is not the same as identical. I'm sure you agree. Kushina was not in love with her evil teammate. Sakura was. Surely this does not mean that Kushina and Sakura are not alike?

We dont have her full background but she didnt loved minato right away, sakura did not love Naruto since the begining.
Minato made her fall in love with him, with hero-ish stuff, sakura started having feelings for naruto for the same reason.

Stop trying to compare 504 with 614 is nothing alike and this debate does not have any fundaments.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 21 December 2012 - 06:38 PM.

[Chatte]

Dunno where I saw stated that many girls were infatuated with Minato? I mean... infatuated... and last time I checked, that's how Kishi described Hinata's feelings for Naruto in the databooks...
But dunno how true that thing with Minato was.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Stop trying to compare 504 with 614 is nothing alike and this debate does not have any fundaments.

But they are alike. Naruto is in both scenes, for example. In both scenes two people race in front of the attack that would otherwise kill Naruto. In both scenes people are willing to sacrifice themselves for Naruto. It does you no good to deny obvious similarities. Chapter 614 did not make NaruHina canon, no matter how similar to Kushina Hinata might in that scene be. What does it matter if you admit that there are similarities?

[sushi.]

@Chatte, I think Jiraiya said it during his last talk with Tsunade. I don't know if that is Hinata's case, but I think sje looks too much up to him. That wouldn't work in a relationship, he needs a woman beside him, not behind him.

Edited by sushi., 21 December 2012 - 06:47 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Dunno where I saw stated that many girls were infatuated with Minato? I mean... infatuated... and last time I checked, that's how Kishi described Hinata's feelings for Naruto in the databooks...
But dunno how true that thing with Minato was.

I checked and i didnt see it.

uncommonly talented,a strong willed hearth filled with kindness, one that....

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

But they are alike. Naruto is in both scenes, for example. In both scenes two people race in front of the attack that would otherwise kill Naruto. In both scenes people are willing to sacrifice themselves for Naruto. It does you no good to deny obvious similarities. Chapter 614 did not make NaruHina canon, no matter how similar to Kushina Hinata might in that scene be. What does it matter if you admit that there are similarities?

They are not for two reason, the attacker was a guy that was with the desire of killing, on their case was a beast that wanted to be avoid being sealed, second both died, only neji died, it's not a obvious similarity because you are forcing it ignoring some details, it's the same as saying that kushina and hinata are alike because they have hina on their names.

Neji died not only because naruto is his friend but because he life was important for the alliance he is a key part in this war he cant die, that why.
You're just forcing.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 21 December 2012 - 06:49 PM.

[sushi.]

I checked and i didnt see it.

uncommonly talented,a strong willed hearth filled with kindness, one that....

It's written on Narutopedia though.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

It's written on Narutopedia though.

Omg narutopedia...
I read the databook it's not written there.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 21 December 2012 - 06:53 PM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

They are not for two reason, the attacker was a guy that was with the desire of killing, on their case was a beast that wanted to be avoid being sealed, second both died, only neji died, it's not a obvious similarity you're forcing, it's the same as saying that kushina and hinata are alike because they have hina on their names. Neji died not only because naruto is his friend but because he life was important for the alliance he is a key part in this war he cant die, that why.
You're just forcing.

There are differences in the scenes, too. That is my point. They do not need to be identical to be similar. Minato did not rescue Kushina from Kushina's previous love interest. Naruto did rescue Sakura from her love interest. Difference, no? Does this mean that those two scenes share no similarity at all? Will you NS shippers stop comparing those two rescue scenes now?

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 21 December 2012 - 06:54 PM.

[StriderC]

We dont have her full background but she didnt loved minato right away, sakura did not love Naruto since the begining.
Minato made her fall in love with him, with hero-ish stuff, sakura started having feelings for naruto for the same reason.

Stop trying to compare 504 with 614 is nothing alike and this debate does not have any fundaments.

LOL When you say made, it sounds like you're saying forced him even though that's not what you're saying at all.

Anyway, it was a gradual progression and I actually think Kishi used the relationship Naruto and Sakura have and their progression in the forming of the relationship between Minato and Kushina.

The girls
They both had things about them that they were made fun of for.
They both didn't like the guy, but it wasn't for the same reason.
They both were saved by the guy in the same fashion, different scenario.

I'm sure there are a few more but you get the point. Kishimoto plays with the Team 7 dynamic a lot in different ways. With the Sannin, and Kakashi's team as well. I feel NS is gonna happen for a lot of reasons. It'd be like Naruto getting what he set out to. Jiraiya didn't get the girl, and it's possible Naruto will with Sakura. Could be a situation where Sakura is put in grave danger like Rin, but unlike Obito, he'll be able to save her. He usually always does this. It's only a matter of how he's gonna pull it off with Naruto and Sakura because it's practically written in the manga stars. LOl

[GlucoseGlutton]

Dunno where I saw stated that many girls were infatuated with Minato? I mean... infatuated... and last time I checked, that's how Kishi described Hinata's feelings for Naruto in the databooks...
But dunno how true that thing with Minato was.

Oh I know what you mean I think Jiraiya said something about Minato being considered handsome (158) but I can't remember where I saw the fangirl part either .

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

There are differences in the scenes, too. That is my point. They do not need to be identical to be similar. Minato did not rescue Kushina from Kushina's previous love interest. Naruto did rescue Sakura from her love interest. Difference, no? Does this mean that those two scenes share no similarity at all? Will you NS shippers stop comparing those two rescue scenes now?

1-> What im' telling you is they are not similar neither identical, neji made a sacrifice like nagato did, like Chyo-baa did, like Jyraia did, he made a sacrifice.
You're telling me that this scene is similar to kushina/minato death scene when the context/purpose is totally different even how they died.
Following your logic so chyo-baa death is similar to kushina/minato, jyraia death and even nagato were all similar because they did a sacrifice.
Neji sacrifice himself not only for Naruto but the shinobi alliance too because Naruto is a key part on this war.

2-> They were both rescued, the "similar" applies but the identical not, because sakura was not kidnapped and etc and she didnt fall in love with Naruto on that scene.


@SugarJunkie Naruto too is considered handsome, but i'm not sure about the second part it looks like come from that filler when they made Minato stalk Kushina.
When watching the movie i simply does not make sense he as a stalker in childhood, and moreover narutopedia is not a reliable source.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 21 December 2012 - 07:03 PM.

[GlucoseGlutton]

But they are alike. Naruto is in both scenes, for example. In both scenes two people race in front of the attack that would otherwise kill Naruto. In both scenes people are willing to sacrifice themselves for Naruto. It does you no good to deny obvious similarities. Chapter 614 did not make NaruHina canon, no matter how similar to Kushina Hinata might in that scene be. What does it matter if you admit that there are similarities?

^This. I thought the scenes were pretty similar too but like you said it wasn't really similar in a Naruhina equals MinaKushi kinda way.