9679 replies to this topic

[Anguyen92]

^^ Hmmmm, sure, why not. But I don't really think that it would be Kishi's type of writing to do something like this, but one would hope something like your statement would happen. But if Kishi decides to skip over that and pull the 5 years later epilouge, then that's what good fanfics are for.

[ciardha]

The thing I'd like to see Kishimoto answer is why Kiba- of all Naruto's generation, suddenly developed such a rabid and violent hatred of Sasuke. He was still plenty willing to go on a save and bring Sasuke back mission before the destruction of Konoha by Pain. The only thing I can figure is it has to do with Pain stabbing Hinata- his antagonistic attitude toward Naruto has also ramped up since then too. So my guess is anything to do with the Akatsuki enrages Kiba now. I wonder if Kishimoto might have this issue with Kiba cause some difficulties for Naruto and Sakura versus the rest of their age peers. Sai's inner rage toward Sasuke is understandable- he sees what grave emotional pain Sasuke has caused both Naruto and Sakura, but Sai can be reasoned with, Kiba not.

[merryGOflava]

The thing I'd like to see Kishimoto answer is why Kiba- of all Naruto's generation, suddenly developed such a rabid and violent hatred of Sasuke. He was still plenty willing to go on a save and bring Sasuke back mission before the destruction of Konoha by Pain. The only thing I can figure is it has to do with Pain stabbing Hinata- his antagonistic attitude toward Naruto has also ramped up since then too. So my guess is anything to do with the Akatsuki enrages Kiba now. I wonder if Kishimoto might have this issue with Kiba cause some difficulties for Naruto and Sakura versus the rest of their age peers. Sai's inner rage toward Sasuke is understandable- he sees what grave emotional pain Sasuke has caused both Naruto and Sakura, but Sai can be reasoned with, Kiba not.

hasnt kiba always been blunt and hot-tempered? he has a pretty straight-forward thought process

(kiba's mind) -->sasuke bad= lets go out and capture that sucker already!!

i mean thats what i always thought. and also hes not as close to sasuke as naruto and sakura are, so he doesnt feel for him as much.

kiba is kiba.

Edited by merryGOflava, 29 September 2011 - 06:46 AM.

[catsi563]

I kinda agree. Kibas pretty easy to figure psychologically. His family is close to canine in behavior and attitude. Loyalty is soemthing hed cherish, and a betrayal of the like of Sasukes is something hed have a hard time forgiving.

[tricksie]

The thing I'd like to see Kishimoto answer is why Kiba- of all Naruto's generation, suddenly developed such a rabid and violent hatred of Sasuke. He was still plenty willing to go on a save and bring Sasuke back mission before the destruction of Konoha by Pain. The only thing I can figure is it has to do with Pain stabbing Hinata- his antagonistic attitude toward Naruto has also ramped up since then too. So my guess is anything to do with the Akatsuki enrages Kiba now. I wonder if Kishimoto might have this issue with Kiba cause some difficulties for Naruto and Sakura versus the rest of their age peers. Sai's inner rage toward Sasuke is understandable- he sees what grave emotional pain Sasuke has caused both Naruto and Sakura, but Sai can be reasoned with, Kiba not.

I've always thought Kiba was the most outspoken due to his nature being from the dog clan. Meaning he is very loyal to his friends and very aggressive toward and protective against his enemies. If his nature is like that, then as the cards fall (Pain stabbing Hinata, etc.) those feelings are only going to solidify. Like a dog who never likes a particular person.

It's not really delved into much, which is a shame, but you have at least three examples of human/animal line-blurring: Naruto/Kyuubi, Kiba/canine, Kisame/sharks. Kiba and Kisame don't have a specific creature, like Naruto does, just general animal-like characteristics, but you can see that those carry out in their human qualities. And Naruto, when he goes into a rage, takes on aspects of the kyuubi, until he is totally transformed (like Kisame, I suppose). So these aren't summons, they are actually part of the fiber of their being. As such, I would think some of the characteristics would carry through in their personalities. Kisame is certainly very shark-like in his loner-ness and attack style; Naruto is pranking and crafty, a realy wisenheimer; and Kiba would be fiercely loyal and protective.

I've thought for a long time why naruto piqued my fancy to write fanfic and not another more fully fleshed-out story — like Harry Potter or FMA or ATLA. And I think it's because there are a wealth of directions that are untouched in the main story, but that exist there nonetheless. It has a great untapped mythology behind the main storyline, and the blending of animal and human is one aspect of that.

Also ciardha, good point about Hinata during Sasuke's death vote scene. Whatever her character may have felt — which is a reader-assigned emotion only — Kishimoto chose to show her as being disconnected from the troubling aspects of it. She's just a witness, one of the crowd. It is Sakura who gets the troubled-face closeup and some lines. Basically, Sakura is the window into Naruto's heart. Not Hinata. And that's shown by the author himself, not what the reader believes Hinata should feel.

[Anguyen92]

Well everyone, remember that name sonicsucks? Well, he manage to start a thread, today, that was kinda tl:dr, and even though I already posted in his thread, here's what he has to say and remember its very long so I'm going to put spoiler tags on. Btw, the guy gave us the green light to dissect this.

Yep, its still long. --Click here to view--

As you know, Sakura has a shady yet morbid relationship with Sasuke, and as shown through out the manga Sakura has yearned for Sasuke's acknowledgement and love. Even if you don't agree, let me put it like this. Sakura still wants Sasuke's friendship and a awareness of bonds. But Sasuke has always considered her a mere comrade and nothing more which I believe is somewhat killing how NaruSaku is supposed to grow due to their dtermination to make Sasuke a precious person and bond again.

But back to Sasuke, I believe as long as Sasuke keeps Sakura outside the inner rims of his acknowledged special bonds(the ones that fuel him to hate or love). Sakura can never truly make peace or get closure with Sasuke individually, she said she would let Naruto and Sasuke handle things, but in my opinion that means she has given up trying to make some effort in understanding Sasuke and pushing herself to want him to acknowledge and like her.

So how is Naruto of all people supposed to have the confidence to confront Sakura's feelings with his own if his greatest bond and best friend/rival won't accept her as one of his equals in bonds with Naruto? Sasuke would shut Sakura out of his personal problems and eventually cause Sakura great depression, because Sasuke won't warm up to her as a person who he can truly trust with his emotional issues. Naruto has not only went through similar trails in order to understand his friend, he also knows what Sasuke feels personally through his own experiences. He is the cloest non Uchiha idividual Sasuke seems to trust as someone worthy of understanding.

Also theres the power issue, Sasuke hates weaklings and has a massive superiority complex. He'd never both trying to help Sakura get strong or even consider her a worth opponent which is the only way Sasuke would interact with someone else.

So in the end NS has to much Sasuke compromises psychologically speaking. Sasuke if he ever gets redeemed will never change, he would just find a new found admiration for Naruto, but what would change with Sakura to him. Naruto of course would always stand up to Sasuke about Sakura, but then they would fight because Sasuke wouldn't back up Sakura's usefulness, thus turning brotherly friendship right back to fierce rivalry and thus more having Sakura feel guilty about the two fighting. Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry seems to come first before any of Naruto's bonds, and we all know it always leads to hearts being broken, tons of angst and no real closure.

The only way I see NS happening is if Sasuke dies or Sasuke himself aknowledges Sakura personally and tells her he's not deserving of her love, but Naruto is. Sasuke has become mandate principle in both Naruto and Sakura's dynamics with each other. I don't see NS happening without it being an asspull, because Naruto and Sakura can't function without Sasuke as the main principle of thier friendship.

It started with Sasuke and it will end with Sasuke because Sasuke is the whole to thier dynamic. And I personally believe Sasuke is without a doubt one of kishimoto's greatest characters and most important and nothing would be as known and established in this manga without him.

No Sasuke means no Naruto fighting to surpass genius over hardwork or being hokage, no gaining Sakura's affections because then Sakura wouldn't have found Naruto to be a great friend due to Sasuke's accepting him, no Orichimaru trying to gain power which eventually leads to the Akatsuki with Itachi and Madara. And most of all, Sakura would still have no purpose to be as strong as she is now personality wise, it was because of her infatuatin with Sasuke, she grew from Ino's shadow and became her own person.

So this is my personal opinion about this. Feel free to tear it apart if you can.

Edited by Anguyen92, 29 September 2011 - 05:36 PM.

[rikakim94]

I haven't been in this site for a while and the first thing. I see is troller douting on our ship cause it will never happen. First off can we have a new rule to banned trollers if they debate our ship in a very very negative manner? Cause right now he's being rude.

[tricksie]

^ Meh. The thread he started is still open, so I would say debate it there if you want to. Let's not bog down two threads with it. For me, anyone who starts out so blatantly biased with no good reasons to back it up, troll or not, is not worth my time.

Back to an earlier post, can anyone think of any other animal/human crosses in Naruto that I've missed? There's got to be some. And then what about Sasuke and Kishimoto's flirting with making him a monster for a while? The whole monster thing came and went. It always felt like a strange plot device to me.

And is it strange that the animal contract can be so strong that you take on aspects of that creature? Like Orochimaru and snakes; Naruto and frogs.

[rikakim94]

I dont know if me or anyone were to debate with sonicsucks would change anything. People who are biased/ignorant won't most likely change due to the fact that they only believe in there own opinion.

[Phantom_999]

The thing I'd like to see Kishimoto answer is why Kiba- of all Naruto's generation, suddenly developed such a rabid and violent hatred of Sasuke. He was still plenty willing to go on a save and bring Sasuke back mission before the destruction of Konoha by Pain. The only thing I can figure is it has to do with Pain stabbing Hinata- his antagonistic attitude toward Naruto has also ramped up since then too. So my guess is anything to do with the Akatsuki enrages Kiba now. I wonder if Kishimoto might have this issue with Kiba cause some difficulties for Naruto and Sakura versus the rest of their age peers. Sai's inner rage toward Sasuke is understandable- he sees what grave emotional pain Sasuke has caused both Naruto and Sakura, but Sai can be reasoned with, Kiba not.

Kiba was always hot blooded anyways they just feel Sasuke will only cause trouble if they leave him alone

hasnt kiba always been blunt and hot-tempered? he has a pretty straight-forward thought process

(kiba's mind) -->sasuke bad= lets go out and capture that sucker already!!

i mean thats what i always thought. and also hes not as close to sasuke as naruto and sakura are, so he doesnt feel for him as much.

kiba is kiba.

NO ONE in the Konoha 9 is close to Sasuke, girl. that's why they could say kill him without batting an eye. kinda hypocritical if you ask me -__-
As for that Sonicsucks thread on NS not happening just call the kages to close it. OH, KAGES!!!!!!!! there is a troll thread on Naruto general I feel you must "deal with"

Edited by Phantom_999, 29 September 2011 - 11:17 PM.

[Living Lavish]

@Miss Soupy

Miss Soupy @ Sep 29 2011, 11:32 PM
So, you are saying Sakura will pine for Sasuke endlessly, even if she will never be with him? It's not impossible, but I don't see that as likely, especially since Sakura is the heroine of the story. To leave the character that has been central to the romantic subplot loveless would be rather...disappointing and unsatisfying, I think. I do believe Sakura will make peace with her feelings or have them returned before the end of the story.

Sakura giving up her desire of acknowledgement from Sasuke as well as stopping all effort to understand him would only further crush the chances of her ever being with Sasuke or her continued feelings for him. While it isn't always true to say if one pairing chances lessens another one increases, I think it would make NaruSaku all the more likely. (Basing that on my beliefs that Sakura will end up with someone, and the two most likely candidates are Sasuke and Naruto

are you talking about main character Naruto being loveless being disappointing? so you believe NaruSaku is the end pairing?

Edited by Living Lavish, 29 September 2011 - 11:25 PM.

[Miss Soupy]

^ No, I'm talking about Sakura. I say Sakura is central to the romance subplot because she is loved by one and feels unrequited love for another. Much of her character ties in with her feelings of love, and she is the one character who has given two confessions...etc. XD

[Living Lavish]

^ No, I'm talking about Sakura. I say Sakura is central to the romance subplot because she is loved by one and feels unrequited love for another. Much of her character ties in with her feelings of love, and she is the one character who has given two confessions...etc. XD

All right gotcha. you said once couldn't see SS happening before. then saying NS is more likely. you still believe NS is the final pairing right?

Edited by Living Lavish, 30 September 2011 - 12:01 AM.

[Super Boom]

I was gonna to respond to sonicsucks' post (the one that was made in the wrong section, but Anguyen posted here), but there's really no need. I don't think that particular poster was necessarily trolling, per se, but making a thread titled, "Why NaruSaku probably won't happen" doesn't seem like the best attitude for someone who only came here to debate. That, coupled, with the fact that he posted his thoughts here once before, and never returned to respond to peoples' rebuttals, tells me he cares more about getting a rise out of people than actually debating. I could be wrong though.

If people want to keep arguing about his post(s) though, I might throw in my two cents later. I feel everyone else responded to him better than I could though, so I don't really feel like getting involved.

Oh, and thanks for mentioning me in that thread Anguyen! It's nice to know the epic essays I tend to write don't annoy everyone here.

Back to an earlier post, can anyone think of any other animal/human crosses in Naruto that I've missed? There's got to be some. And then what about Sasuke and Kishimoto's flirting with making him a monster for a while? The whole monster thing came and went. It always felt like a strange plot device to me.

And is it strange that the animal contract can be so strong that you take on aspects of that creature? Like Orochimaru and snakes; Naruto and frogs.

That's a pretty interesting thought. It seems like many of the Summon users/Jinchuriki seems to take on a few characteristics of their summon/Bijuu. Orochimaru with snakes and Jiraiya with toads are two of the best examples, but we also see it with Kidomaru and spiders, Kisame and sharks (I know you already mentioned him), Bee and oxen (and octupuses?), Naruto with foxes, and perhaps Itachi with crows (I don't think he actually summons crows, but it seems like his theme or something). I think it's a more of a thematic thing with the characters though, I don't think the summoning contract mutates you or anything.

It is a cool way to define characters though, since using animals to flesh out characters has all sort of possiblities in terms of character growth and interaction (ex. Naruto vs. Kiba and their fox vs. dog dynamic).

Edited by Boom...Winning, 30 September 2011 - 12:07 AM.

[Phantom_999]

^ No, I'm talking about Sakura. I say Sakura is central to the romance subplot because she is loved by one and feels unrequited love for another. Much of her character ties in with her feelings of love, and she is the one character who has given two confessions...etc. XD

OH but one of her loves is NOT unrequited. Long time no see miss soupy Anyways I feel that despite keeping the pairings ambiguous Kishi-sensei should just bring out NS when canonically possible ( hey you v=can't please everyone right Kishimoto-sensei?)

[Miss Soupy]

All right gotcha. you said once couldn't see SS happening before. then saying NS is more likely. you still believe NS is the final pairing right?

I don't see SS as being likely, but I suppose I'd be lying if I said I couldn't see it happening (of course, it would require a lot of imagination to see it XD)

I do believe NS is Kishi's intended pairing.

OH but one of her loves is NOT unrequited. Long time no see miss soupy Anyways I feel that despite keeping the pairings ambiguous Kishi-sensei should just bring out NS when canonically possible ( hey you v=can't please everyone right Kishimoto-sensei?)

Howdy! XD Unrequited love, I mean towards Sasuke

[Living Lavish]

I don't see SS as being likely, but I suppose I'd be lying if I said I couldn't see it happening (of course, it would require a lot of imagination to see it XD)

I do believe NS is Kishi's intended pairing.


Howdy! XD Unrequited love, I mean towards Sasuke

Exactly.

yeah I can't see it happen at all. I mean all this development, hints etc. what he said wanted to do with unrequited love in part 2. it would make it all pointless. plus Sakuras confused feelings for Naruto she will never have fully understand it would make Kishi are horrible writer. it would just feel wrong.

what do you think will happen next NaruSaku moment?

[Miss Soupy]

yeah I can't see it happen at all. I mean all this development, hints etc. what he said wanted to do with unrequited love in part 2. it would make it all pointless. plus Sakuras confused feelings for Naruto she will never have fully understand it would make Kishi are horrible writer. it would just feel wrong.

what do you think will happen next NaruSaku moment?

A lot of things could make Kishi a horrible writer. If he just threw NS together as it is, I would say it was lacking as well. There are still issues that need to be worked out between them, but if they end up being ignored it wouldn't mean much to win the pairing war, imo.

I have no idea when or what the next NS moment will be...so I won't even try to guess XD

[Super Boom]

what do you think will happen next NaruSaku moment?

I'm not sure, but I think it'll tie in with Sakura's earlier conversation with the love letter guy. I still think that 540 panel was drawn for a reason, and it'll somehow tie into Sakura finally resolving that part of her character (or show us how she already has, if that's the case).
As for what it'll be specifically, I'm not sure. Maybe she'll comment on how Naruto really is "a great guy", or just think of Naruto and smile. Or maybe the love letter itself will come into play somehow.

A lot of things could make Kishi a horrible writer. If he just threw NS together as it is, I would say it was lacking as well. There are still issues that need to be worked out between them, but if they end up being ignored it wouldn't mean much to win the pairing war, imo.

Yeah, I guess I'd have a problem with that too. Hopefully their next conversation will help resolve some of these issues.

Edited by Boom...Winning, 30 September 2011 - 02:08 AM.

[RedDelicious]

Back to an earlier post, can anyone think of any other animal/human crosses in Naruto that I've missed? There's got to be some. And then what about Sasuke and Kishimoto's flirting with making him a monster for a while? The whole monster thing came and went. It always felt like a strange plot device to me.

And is it strange that the animal contract can be so strong that you take on aspects of that creature? Like Orochimaru and snakes; Naruto and frogs.

Jiraiya in sage mode is a better example than Naruto overdoing natural energy.