54213 replies to this topic

[Kagomaru]

Well well well.... Where is the true love now? That said, this speaks to me as pure incompetence. I have no empathy points for this explanation. Just saying. 

It doesn't help that we know that this was just more damage control on his part to cover the asses of WSJ's editors because he gave into external pressure from them and SP.

Edited by Kagomaru, 13 August 2024 - 09:34 PM.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

So it was chart guys. 

[Shadow Wolf]

https://fandomwire.c...-sorry-for-her/

 

Hah... being inactive for so long and coming back to this was not on my bingo card.

 

Sure, we all knew this ever since all those years ago, but to see it finally being brought to the light gives it a sort of poetic justice that I only thought would exist outside the Infinite Tsukuyomi that is the ending and everything after it. This only reinforces my belief that NS was and always will be the correct pairing on this manga (save for a few other obvious choices, like ShikaTema, of course).

 

You know, now I feel sorry for NH fans, since they can't really justify their pairing now. Not that they couldn't all those years ago anyway, but we kinda had to stay quiet -so to speak- because they had everything after chapter 698.

 

Heh, now I need some good NS fiction to immerse myself into with this great news. Hope you're all doing well. :)

[Phantom_999]

It doesn't help that we know that this was just more damage control on his part to cover the asses of WSJ's editors because he gave into external pressure from them and SP.

 

This is all true. This is just more damage control, but disregarding it, it would still not be a respectable or even good choice to be made public. To those not knowing he caved into the gaslighting of SP and his Editors at WSJ, post Yahagi, it seems like he is either a coward or he doesn't respect his fans, not even the NH shippers. He gave Hinata a pity-cookie because he felt sorry for her and did not actually believe in the romance between her and Naruto, SO EVERYBODY LOSES. No one should care about the manga at this point, and this is beyond Naru-Saku getting shafted, this shows COMPLETE disregard even for the fans that believe in the shipping couple that Hinata-horn dogs both at WSJ and SP were appealing to. So I really just can't.... find anything nice to say here. I would be curious to how Hinata fans would react to this though.

Edited by Phantom_999, 18 August 2024 - 06:37 PM.

[BlueStarSaber]

Frankly I think Kishimoto changes his reason for nh with each interview

[Bail o' Lies]

This is not a new statement. Kishimoto has been saying stuff like this since the ending. This was always his justification for it happening beyond "she is popular and what the fans want while Sakura wasn't."

 

SP saw Hinata as the perfect woman that deserved Naruto as she deserved to be the heroine of the story. So, they wrote the Last to show that their Princess-Goddess Hinata-Hime-sama was the most perfect woman that was entitled to Naruto. He was her prize for being so perfect.

 

Kishimoto never got the appeal of Hinata. She wasn't his type and the people pushing her onto him would never explained to him why she should be the heroine other than she more popular than Sakura, she is prettier than her, fans like her, and she liked Naruto the longest so deserved him. Because the real answer is they love her absolute devotion, submissiveness, and no effort to obtain her. So, he needed his own reason for why Hinata should end up with Naruto? After, SP's staff pressured him to kill off Neji (the real character that was in the way of nH happening) her original storyline died with him. Leaving only her affection for Naruto. He saw that as pathetic and pitied her so agreed to put them together.

 

SP saw Hinata as perfect, Kishimoto saw her as pathetic. These views clash and helped make the mess that was the ending.

 

SP had nH's wedding be the end of the anime therefor the goal of Naruto all along was really to get together with Hinata instead of becoming Hokage and changing the ninja system's problems surpassing all those that previously held the title. The Last was to show how perfect she was and that she deserved a perfect life.

 

Kishimoto at the ending only had them together in front of Neji's grave implying Naruto was getting together with her to honor his sacrifice. And the relationship was set up by him which showed Naruto who focused on his job as Hokage was as distant to Hinata as Sasuke was to Sakura. The Sasuke that went out of his way to avoid Sakura for 12 years. Which is why both kids have daddy issues.

 

SS is still only happened because once Sakura lost her status as the Heroine he needed to put her somewhere and SS was popular with some fans; and nothing deeper than that because he dislikes the pairing. nH was the one he needed to be convinced to happened and once he was SS followed just to put Sakura somewhere.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 20 August 2024 - 12:51 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

This is not a new statement. Kishimoto has been saying stuff like this since the ending. This was always his justification for it happening beyond "she is popular and what the fans want while Sakura wasn't."
 
SP saw Hinata as the perfect woman that deserved Naruto as she deserved to be the heroine of the story. So, they wrote the Last to show that their Princess-Goddess Hinata-Hime-sama was the most perfect woman that was entitled to Naruto. He was her prize for being so perfect.
 
Kishimoto never got the appeal of Hinata. She wasn't his type and the people pushing her onto him would never explained to him why she should be the heroine other than she more popular than Sakura, she is prettier than her, fans like her, and she liked Naruto the longest so deserved him. Because the real answer is they love her absolute devotion, submissiveness, and no effort to obtain her. So, he needed his own reason for why Hinata should end up with Naruto? After, SP's staff pressured him to kill off Neji (the real character that was in the way of nH happening) her original storyline died with him. Leaving only her affection for Naruto. He saw that as pathetic and pitied her so agreed to put them together.
 
SP saw Hinata as perfect, Kishimoto saw her as pathetic. These views clash and helped make the mess that was the ending.
 
SP had nH's wedding be the end of the anime therefor the goal of Naruto all along was really to get together with Hinata instead of becoming Hokage and changing the ninja system's problems surpassing all those that previously held the title. The Last was to show how perfect she was and that she deserved a perfect life.
 
Kishimoto at the ending only had them together in front of Neji's grave implying Naruto was getting together with her to honor his sacrifice. And the relationship was set up by him which showed Naruto who focused on his job as Hokage was as distant to Hinata as Sasuke was to Sakura. The Sasuke that went out of his way to avoid Sakura for 12 years. Which is why both kids have daddy issues.
 
SS is still only happened because once Sakura lost her status as the Heroine he needed to put her somewhere and SS was popular with some fans; and nothing deeper than that because he dislikes the pairing. nH was the one he needed to be convinced to happened and once he was SS followed just to put Sakura somewhere.

Damn! Bail with the epic mike drop!

[TheFirstEvil100]

Damn! Bail with the epic mike drop!

What's funny is that all of it could have been fixed so damn easily. We know Kishi kept getting bugged by the Hinata fans who kept telling him what he should do with Hinata even if he didn't get why so many liked her. I have said this, but if I were in Kishi's spot, this would be before Pain, and I was told again and again to have Hinata do something to take the spotlight from Sakura.

 

I would have told my editors I would give Hinata a big moment. Her death at Pain's hands outside of the range, so she isn't coming back. It would be a way that shut up the ones who all pushed for Hinata, who kept bothering to push her into the light.

 

Then, with Sakura. She, Shikamaru, and Neji would all fight to save Naruto.

 

I would have it so that as the two keep Pain away, Sakura would free Naruto, saying she believes him and how much Naruto has helped her grow and she wants to be by his side when he becomes Hokage, sadly before she could remove the last rod Pain will use his pull and stab her in the stomach that way we would still get the Minato part.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

What's funny is that all of it could have been fixed so damn easily. We know Kishi kept getting bugged by the Hinata fans who kept telling him what he should do with Hinata even if he didn't get why so many liked her. I have said this, but if I were in Kishi's spot, this would be before Pain, and I was told again and again to have Hinata do something to take the spotlight from Sakura.

 

I would have told my editors I would give Hinata a big moment. Her death at Pain's hands outside of the range, so she isn't coming back. It would be a way that shut up the ones who all pushed for Hinata, who kept bothering to push her into the light.

 

Then, with Sakura. She, Shikamaru, and Neji would all fight to save Naruto.

 

I would have it so that as the two keep Pain away, Sakura would free Naruto, saying she believes him and how much Naruto has helped her grow and she wants to be by his side when he becomes Hokage, sadly before she could remove the last rod Pain will use his pull and stab her in the stomach that way we would still get the Minato part.

 

Great idea! At least we know too with Sakura, she GENUINELY did believe in Naruto, which is why she respected his wishes no on else get involved while he fought Nagato/Pain.

[BlueStarSaber]

New video showing everything wrong with sasusaku https://youtu.be/xXt...?feature=shared

[Phantom_999]

Everything wrong with SasuSaku besides being a wish fulfillment of “changing the bad boy” is the same reason that NaruSasu’s "quasi brotherhood" is toxic and unbelievable. There are little to no positive mutual moments to rectify or enforce it. If you need your audience to overreach, overanalyze AND over reason why a relationship works the way it does and force the issue down their throats then you are doing something wrong as a writer. I summed that up, and I doubt that it took more than 20 seconds.

Edited by Phantom_999, 21 January 2025 - 02:04 PM.

[Nostradamus]

New video showing everything wrong with sasusaku https://youtu.be/xXt...?feature=shared

The last part with NS is good. Talking about the confession. He's right that scene was a set-up for moment later on.

A moment that never came, and we all know why.

[Bail o' Lies]

Right, I'm going to use Star Wars and MHA to go into why its generally a bad idea to subvert an ending.

 

Spielberg was once interviewed and ask about Kathleen Kennedy working under him. His answer was, she was terrible at her job and would interrupt discussions of the brainstorming a movie's story with her own ideas when she was suppose to be taking notes. The one he really remembers was, "What if he didn't get the girl, but instead got the dog?" Which would clearly subvert the ending of the movie. Now why that stood out, why that is a bad idea, and why he never did a movie with that ending are all the same answer. Because while it would seem clever, it would not lead to a satisfying ending to the movie. Story have a flow to them and the audience has expectation of what will happen at the end. Fulfill them and they will enjoy that story and might read it again to experience that enjoyment again. Subverting the story while one could make an interesting story; it could also leave the audience dissatisfied therefor would not watch it again.

 

Now, here is Disney Star Wars for examples.

Original Trilogy:

And what if Luke didn't restore the Jedi order, but instead ended up as an loser on a island given up on everything.

And what if Han didn't remain a general and reform the military, but instead went back to becoming a smuggler.

And what if Leia didn't become Supreme Chancellor to restore democracy to the galaxy, but instead remained a general in a galactic government that disbanded their armed forces.

And what if Leia and Han didn't remain together but instead divorce with Han going back to smuggling with Chewbacca.

And what if Lando didn't become a wealthy philanthropist, but instead became a hobo on a desert planet.

 

Sequel Trilogy.

And what if Rey and Ben didn't get together but instead she got his uncle's farm. 

And what if Finn never confessed his feelings for Rey but instead remain her eternal simpering lackey.

 

Their Tv Shows:

And what if The Mandalorian didn't become the Mandalore, but instead ended on a farm with Baby Yoda.

And what if Baby Yoda didn't become a Jedi but instead just ended up on a farm with The Mandalorian.

And what if Sabine and Erza didn't get together but instead Sabine became a lesbian set up to get together with Ahsoka.

 

MHA the story start off with the implication that Midoriya is telling the story of how he became the number 1 hero to his successor, who he will pass OFA to. Instead, he lost the quirk, ended up as a teacher for a decade was then given a tech suit, and ended the story with we are all the number one hero. This left fans dissatisfied. 

 

The story of Naruto was he would become Hokage, earn the villagers' respect, become friends with Sasuke while also surpassing him, reform the ninja system, and end up with Sakura. Even if he looked like he succeed with some of that at the end, it still feels like he failed in the spirit. Leaving most readers dissatisfied with the ending. nH and SS fans said they didn't not care about the story and only cared about their pairings happening. Well, once their pairings happened they then complained about how their pairings aren't how they wanted it. The thing is the story wasn't built for their parings and so making them the pairings would always be unsatisfying as either they are unrealistically perfect or realistically imperfect but ultimately shallow because they weren't developed in story but in the fantasies of the supporters.

 

Its better for a story to stick to a simple one and tell it well then make a complex story full of subversion that falls flat.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 12 March 2025 - 12:58 PM.

[BlueStarSaber]

I'm sorry what interview is this, because I can't see Spielberg saying that about Kathleen

[Bail o' Lies]

And I just googled that quote. Which top source took me to reddit. Which took me to a youtube video. Which had a source, NPR. Which was the second website after reddit listed.

 

 

https://www.npr.org/...cing-it-herself

 

She made her way to Los Angeles, and landed a job as a secretary for notorious screenwriter John Milius, who had written Apocalypse Now. At the time, Milius was executive producing Steven Spielberg's movie 1941. Spielberg had already done Jaws and Close Encounters of the Third Kind at that point and, as Kennedy says, "he was on a trajectory that was pretty amazing for me to step in at that point." Spielberg says he was so impressed with Kennedy's organizing skills that he asked her to be his secretary.

 

"I remember Kathy came into the room with her steno pad and her pencil, and she was horrible at taking notes," Spielberg recalls. "She was terrible, and didn't know how to do it very well. But what she did know how to do was interrupt somebody in midsentence. We'd be pitching ideas back and forth, and Kathy — who was supposed to be writing these ideas down — suddenly put her pencil down and would say something like, 'And what if he didn't get the girl, but instead he got the dog?' "

 

This took me less than 30 seconds.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 24 January 2025 - 12:49 AM.

[BlueStarSaber]

Hey guys I'm thinking of doing a stream next week title Why Ship Narusaku and was wondering if anyone here wanted to join

[totherpage95]

shonen jump released a manga music video for sakura's birthday which wasn't the worst but it does seem to utilize ai

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Hey guys I'm thinking of doing a stream next week title Why Ship Narusaku and was wondering if anyone here wanted to join

I might.

[BlueStarSaber]

I might.

Okay I'm thinking Saturday around the 6pm time to UK if that works for you

[milan kyuubi]

NaruSaku Was More Than a Ship, It Was the Right Choice