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H&E's NaruSaku Debate Thread!


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#5361 narulsaku

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:40 PM

QUOTE (dovahkiin @ Nov 7 2012, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sasuke is the final boss but before it he will have a fight with sasuke.

not sure. cause we cant say that kisi would do something like this "naruto would kill sasuke or bring him back after ns orochimaru would be the boss again .

god is sweet.......
courage,,,,,,,,,,,
doesn't always roar.............
sometimescourage is quite voice at the
end of the day saying,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
'll try again tomorrow"


#5362 narulsaku

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:40 PM

QUOTE (dovahkiin @ Nov 7 2012, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sasuke is the final boss but before it he will have a fight with sasuke.

not sure. cause we cant say that kisi would do something like this "naruto would kill sasuke or bring him back after ns orochimaru would be the boss again .

god is sweet.......
courage,,,,,,,,,,,
doesn't always roar.............
sometimescourage is quite voice at the
end of the day saying,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
'll try again tomorrow"


#5363 PhenixElite

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:21 PM

Question:

Can someone tell me who has written the databooks? It wasnt kishi himself right?

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#5364 Canadian_DJ

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:41 PM

QUOTE (redragon88 @ Nov 6 2012, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Some fans might be biased, but that doesn't mean everyone of them are. You shouldn't generalize like that.

From what I recall takl is a very decent fan. He provided a lot of info in anticipation of the Road to Ninja movie and always answered the questions that many people brought up. He has also said many times that the only thing he wants if for Naruto to be with someone who makes him happy, he doesn't seem to care about paring wars at all.

I can't allow you to discredit takl so easily, especially when he has done nothing to deserve it. On the contrary he's always helpful when asked. I know some fans can irritate you, but please try not to put people in that same category just because they have different opinions.

On last thing, I do read the manga and follow the facts. I know very well how their relationship has developed and how it correlates to the themes that Kishi wants to communicate in the manga. I specifically said that I just brought this up to have something to talk about. So no, not end of story.

Sorry didnt't mean to offend ya, or anyone in this thread, but yeah your right not every nh fan is like that, but the majority of biased fans that are in denial out number them by a huge amount, and i wasn't reffering to the non biased nh fans that aren't in denial, thats why i said the nh fans that are biased, not all of them are in denial and biased.But i wont believe that interview unless it actually has a video of kishi and the translation on the bottom, or an ACTUAL interview thats official, not writen on some forum.

13080302030649702.gif~                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ナル~サク 4/3 The day he fell in love with her ♥ 豪傑 そて 婦 hero, great man and heroine, brave woman°°°★Official Top Ten overall NARUTO characters: 1. Kakashi 2.Naruto 3.Sasuke 4.Iruka 5.Shikamaru 6.Gaara 7.Sakura 8.Neji 9.Itachi 10.Lee★°°° <p>Best ofナル~サク


#5365 Canadian_DJ

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:42 PM

QUOTE (PhenixElite @ Nov 7 2012, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Question:

Can someone tell me who has written the databooks? It wasnt kishi himself right?

No actually it was.The information provided is 100 % canon facts and true.

13080302030649702.gif~                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ナル~サク 4/3 The day he fell in love with her ♥ 豪傑 そて 婦 hero, great man and heroine, brave woman°°°★Official Top Ten overall NARUTO characters: 1. Kakashi 2.Naruto 3.Sasuke 4.Iruka 5.Shikamaru 6.Gaara 7.Sakura 8.Neji 9.Itachi 10.Lee★°°° <p>Best ofナル~サク


#5366 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 03:10 PM

QUOTE (PhenixElite @ Nov 7 2012, 09:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Question:

Can someone tell me who has written the databooks? It wasnt kishi himself right?

I heard it's Kishi, the fact there's input from him, but I think it's from his editors, who Kishi told them the details on what to put. Doubt they would lie about the info in a databook no less. But I digress. To me, it feels like the databook is suppose to state the obvious or missing the point, such as Sakura's feeling for Naruto.

#5367 narulsaku

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 03:15 PM

QUOTE (PhenixElite @ Nov 7 2012, 07:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Question:

Can someone tell me who has written the databooks? It wasnt kishi himself right?

hum data books are the summaries and expalainations of the manga. so ofcourse the creater kishi has written them. but i vent read one. i ve only heared of them.i dissagree with phenixelite too. if everything is true 100% then it should be written all about the pairing matter. narusaku4life3g:::: where did you get data book. please tell me.

god is sweet.......
courage,,,,,,,,,,,
doesn't always roar.............
sometimescourage is quite voice at the
end of the day saying,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
'll try again tomorrow"


#5368 PhenixElite

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 03:20 PM

QUOTE (Canadian_DJ @ Nov 7 2012, 03:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No actually it was.The information provided is 100 % canon facts and true.

Uffff!! If i knew this at the time it was released i would have never had doubts on NaruSaku happening from the beginning of part 2 on. I mean yeah write down that sakura still hasnt found an answer how she feels about naruto and then add the fact that it was released short after the great heaven and earth bridge scene as far as i know, cant even make it more obvious.

Lol if kishi ends it with NH or SS and then someone looks back at the whole story including the latest movie, kushina telling naruto to find someone like her, NS moments, databook, etc., etc., everybody would be like WTF something went terrible wrong there.

No doubts left.

@all: Thanks for the fast replies.

Edited by PhenixElite, 07 November 2012 - 03:24 PM.

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#5369 redragon88

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 04:16 PM

QUOTE (Canadian_DJ @ Nov 7 2012, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry didnt't mean to offend ya, or anyone in this thread, but yeah your right not every nh fan is like that, but the majority of biased fans that are in denial out number them by a huge amount, and i wasn't reffering to the non biased nh fans that aren't in denial, thats why i said the nh fans that are biased, not all of them are in denial and biased.But i wont believe that interview unless it actually has a video of kishi and the translation on the bottom, or an ACTUAL interview thats official, not writen on some forum.

I understand. By no means do I want to force you to believe in something if you don't want to. I personally believe him because he has been extremely reliable in the past, especially when it came to providing info on Road to Ninja. But that doesn't mean I expect everyone to feel as I do.

I just don't want people to discredit him without truly knowing how much he has done for the non-japanese fans.

QUOTE (PhenixElite @ Nov 7 2012, 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Uffff!! If i knew this at the time it was released i would have never had doubts on NaruSaku happening from the beginning of part 2 on. I mean yeah write down that sakura still hasnt found an answer how she feels about naruto and then add the fact that it was released short after the great heaven and earth bridge scene as far as i know, cant even make it more obvious.

Lol if kishi ends it with NH or SS and then someone looks back at the whole story including the latest movie, kushina telling naruto to find someone like her, NS moments, databook, etc., etc., everybody would be like WTF something went terrible wrong there.

No doubts left.

@all: Thanks for the fast replies.

True, that's what we keep thinking given all of the development between them we have seen so far. Naruto and Sakura are the very definition of build-up toward a dramatic conclusion.

It's not just the typical boy likes girl but she doesn't and then does. It's all about how they grow to understand each other throughout the series. It's not just about Naruto winning over Sakura's heart, it's about how they slowly become inseparable partners which will culminate in them being together.

If that build-up doesn't show results by the end of the story then anyone that looks back at the story in retrospect will feel a great sense of awkwardness when seeing the development between Naruto and Sakura.

Edited by redragon88, 07 November 2012 - 04:25 PM.


#5370 Luna

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:43 PM

QUOTE (redragon88 @ Nov 7 2012, 12:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I understand. By no means do I want to force you to believe in something if you don't want to. I personally believe him because he has been extremely reliable in the past, especially when it came to providing info on Road to Ninja. But that doesn't mean I expect everyone to feel as I do.

I just don't want people to discredit him without truly knowing how much he has done for the non-japanese fans.


True, that's what we keep thinking given all of the development between them we have seen so far. Naruto and Sakura are the very definition of build-up toward a dramatic conclusion.

It's not just the typical boy likes girl but she doesn't and then does. It's all about how they grow to understand each other throughout the series. It's not just about Naruto winning over Sakura's heart, it's about how they slowly become inseparable partners which will culminate in them being together.

If that build-up doesn't show results by the end of the story then anyone that looks back at the story in retrospect will feel a great sense of awkwardness when seeing the development between Naruto and Sakura.


The bolded part smile.gif I agree


 


#5371 redragon88

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:49 PM

You know something that I've realized bothers me:

Many times that there's a mention of how Naruto is the more deserving to get his love reciprocated because of the level of his selfless love some people that disagree with that pairing then like to counter by saying that Sakura is not an object so she should have the right to make her own decisions.

You know what bothers me about that argument? The fact that Sakura IS an object. And so are Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, and all of the cast of this series. They are drawings on a paper for the purpose of telling a story which is decided by a single man: Masashi Kishimoto.

They are not independent beings capable of original thinking, the only one doing the thinking is Kishi. Every thing that we like or dislike about a character we can only attribute it to Kishi's personal view about them. If the characters were real I'm pretty sure that Sakura wouldn't still be in love with Sasuke, but Kishi makes her still have those feelings because he has a plan as to how the story will work out, and Sakura still having romantic feelings for Sasuke is essential for it.

As to whether it will be for the better or the worse of our preferences, that depends on what message Kishi wants to transmit toward the conclusion. I think that instead of trying to decipher what Sakura thinks, we should focus more on what Kishimoto is thinking when he chooses to develop his characters the way he does.

I personally think Kishi made Naruto have such a selfless love for Sakura, one that isn't matched by anyone else, because he wants to let us know that the most important thing that you can do for the one you love the most is to always think about their happiness. He wants to let us know that if you treat the one you love with such level of care and respect that they can eventually look your way and love you the way you love them.

What annoys me is that some people want to twist around such a nice message and make it sound as if it was that Naruto should be entitled to Sakura just because he's being nice. Putting it that way makes it sound as if Naruto is only being nice to Sakura so that he can get her, when in reality is the precise opposite of that. The message is about how genuine selflessness from your part can lead to someone loving you back. It was never about just acting nice with the expectations of getting love in return.

The point of Naruto getting together with Sakura is how loving someone while not expecting anything in return can lead in itself to that love.

Since Naruto is the only one who has shown such a level of selfless romantic love then them not getting together would completely nullify that message. If Naruto had fallen in love with another girl, say in the middle of the story, and shown that selfless love to her then the story could still keep its proper flow. But Kishi probably didn't want to make anymore complications about development so he made Naruto only love Sakura in his story.

Just because it can work out with the first girl Naruto loves I don't think that means Kishi is tellings us it can happen like that in real life. But as said before, Kishi probably didn't want anymore complications so he made Sakura the only one.

Kishi isn't telling how to make the first person we like to fall in love with us, he's telling us which is the appropriate way to love someone. And by extension he tells us that loving the appropriate way can lead to someone liking us back. It doesn't have to be the 1st, 2nd, etc., just someone.

Oh, and by the way, it's about how someone you like can like you back, not the other way around. So saying Hinata! Hinata! is completely irrelevant.

If you love in a truly selfless way then the one who finally returns your unrequited feelings will truly love you as well. It will not be just lust or some fling, it will be true love. That's what Naruto and Sakura being together will leave to the audience.

Edited by redragon88, 07 November 2012 - 09:00 PM.


#5372 PhenixElite

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:01 PM

QUOTE (redragon88 @ Nov 7 2012, 09:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know something that I've realized bothers me:

Many times that there's a mention of how Naruto is the more deserving to get his love reciprocated because of the level of his selfless love some people that disagree with that pairing then like to counter by saying that Sakura is not an object so she should have the right to make her own decisions.

You know what bothers me about that argument? The fact that Sakura IS an object. And so are Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, and all of the cast of this series. They are drawings on a paper for the purpose of telling a story which is decided by a single man: Masashi Kishimoto.

They are not independent beings capable of original thinking, the only one doing the thinking is Kishi. Every thing that we like or dislike about a character we can only attribute it to Kishi's personal view about them. If the characters were real I'm pretty sure that Sakura wouldn't still be in love with Sasuke, but Kishi makes her still have those feelings because he has a plan as to how the story will work out, and Sakura still having romantic feelings for Sasuke is essential for it.

As to whether it will be for the better or the worse of our preferences, that depends on what message Kishi wants to transmit toward the conclusion. I think that instead of trying to decipher what Sakura thinks, we should focus more on what Kishimoto is thinking when he chooses to develop his characters the way he does.

I personally think Kishi made Naruto have such a selfless love for Sakura, one that isn't matched by anyone else, because he wants to let us know that the most important thing that you can do for the one you love the most is to always think about their happiness. He wants to let us know that if you treat the one you love with such level of care and respect that they can eventually look your way and love you the way you love them.

What annoys me is that some people want to twist around such a nice message and make it sound as if it was that Naruto should be entitled to Sakura just because he's being nice. Putting it that way makes it sound as if Naruto is only being nice to Sakura so that he can get her, when in reality is the precise opposite of that. The message is about how genuine selflessness from your part can lead to someone loving you back. It was never about just acting nice with the expectations of getting love in return.

The point of Naruto getting together with Sakura is how loving someone while not expecting anything in return can lead in itself to that love.

Since Naruto is the only one who has shown such a level of selfless romantic love then them not getting together would completely nullify that message. If Naruto had fallen in love with another girl, say in the middle of the story, and shown that selfless love to her then the story could still keep its proper flow. But Kishi probably didn't want to make anymore complications about development so he made Naruto only love Sakura in his story.

Just because it can work out with the first girl Naruto loves I don't think that means Kishi is tellings us it can happen like that in real life. But as said before, Kishi probably didn't want anymore complications so he made Sakura the only one.

Kishi isn't telling how to make the first person we like to fall in love with us, he's telling us which is the appropriate way to love someone. And by extension he tells us that loving the appropriate way can lead to someone liking us back. It doesn't have to be the 1st, 2nd, etc., just someone.

Oh and by the way it's about how some you like can like you back, not the other way around. So saying Hinata!, Hinata! is completely irrelevant.

If you love in a truly selfless way then the one who finally returns your unrequited feelings will truly love you as well. It will not be just lust or some fling, it will be true love. That's what Naruto and Sakura being together will leave to the audience.

What shall i say more then marvelous post and totaly agree.

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#5373 Transformers03

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:25 PM

QUOTE (redragon88 @ Nov 7 2012, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know something that I've realized bothers me:

Many times that there's a mention of how Naruto is the more deserving to get his love reciprocated because of the level of his selfless love some people that disagree with that pairing then like to counter by saying that Sakura is not an object so she should have the right to make her own decisions.

You know what bothers me about that argument? The fact that Sakura IS an object. And so are Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, and all of the cast of this series. They are drawings on a paper for the purpose of telling a story which is decided by a single man: Masashi Kishimoto.

They are not independent beings capable of original thinking, the only one doing the thinking is Kishi. Every thing that we like or dislike about a character we can only attribute it to Kishi's personal view about them. If the characters were real I'm pretty sure that Sakura wouldn't still be in love with Sasuke, but Kishi makes her still have those feelings because he has a plan as to how the story will work out, and Sakura still having romantic feelings for Sasuke is essential for it.

As to whether it will be for the better or the worse of our preferences, that depends on what message Kishi wants to transmit toward the conclusion. I think that instead of trying to decipher what Sakura thinks, we should focus more on what Kishimoto is thinking when he chooses to develop his characters the way he does.

I personally think Kishi made Naruto have such a selfless love for Sakura, one that isn't matched by anyone else, because he wants to let us know that the most important thing that you can do for the one you love the most is to always think about their happiness. He wants to let us know that if you treat the one you love with such level of care and respect that they can eventually look your way and love you the way you love them.

What annoys me is that some people want to twist around such a nice message and make it sound as if it was that Naruto should be entitled to Sakura just because he's being nice. Putting it that way makes it sound as if Naruto is only being nice to Sakura so that he can get her, when in reality is the precise opposite of that. The message is about how genuine selflessness from your part can lead to someone loving you back. It was never about just acting nice with the expectations of getting love in return.

The point of Naruto getting together with Sakura is how loving someone while not expecting anything in return can lead in itself to that love.

Since Naruto is the only one who has shown such a level of selfless romantic love then them not getting together would completely nullify that message. If Naruto had fallen in love with another girl, say in the middle of the story, and shown that selfless love to her then the story could still keep its proper flow. But Kishi probably didn't want to make anymore complications about development so he made Naruto only love Sakura in his story.

Just because it can work out with the first girl Naruto loves I don't think that means Kishi is tellings us it can happen like that in real life. But as said before, Kishi probably didn't want anymore complications so he made Sakura the only one.

Kishi isn't telling how to make the first person we like to fall in love with us, he's telling us which is the appropriate way to love someone. And by extension he tells us that loving the appropriate way can lead to someone liking us back. It doesn't have to be the 1st, 2nd, etc., just someone.

Oh, and by the way, it's about how someone you like can like you back, not the other way around. So saying Hinata! Hinata! is completely irrelevant.

If you love in a truly selfless way then the one who finally returns your unrequited feelings will truly love you as well. It will not be just lust or some fling, it will be true love. That's what Naruto and Sakura being together will leave to the audience.


I pretty much agree with what you just said, which is why I HATE shipping debates. People start getting personal with their debates, adding their own personal preference and real world logic as arguments (but even for the latter we still make the most sense). In reality you should just use evidence from the manga, and see what kind of message the author is trying to say through his manga. I don't even mind using the anime as proof either (though most don't agree), unless it's for dumb little things (like Hinata being a good cook like Kushina err.gif).

#5374 Nate River

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 04:46 AM

QUOTE (redragon88 @ Nov 7 2012, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know something that I've realized bothers me:

Many times that there's a mention of how Naruto is the more deserving to get his love reciprocated because of the level of his selfless love some people that disagree with that pairing then like to counter by saying that Sakura is not an object so she should have the right to make her own decisions.

You know what bothers me about that argument? The fact that Sakura IS an object. And so are Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, and all of the cast of this series. They are drawings on a paper for the purpose of telling a story which is decided by a single man: Masashi Kishimoto.


Literally speaking, yes. But I think reducing it to that is a weak side-stepping of the argument.

The deserving argument is generally terrible. Growing up my primary interest was Mathematics, and I generally tolerated literaure classes because I had to. My interest in reading/storytelling is a rather recent and so I don't have the background most people do, especially when it comes to pairings.

The reason I say that is because I cannot think of an actual example of the following, but I suppose if Kishimoto wanted to employ it as a story-telling device where he has Naruto do everything in his power to show, prove, etc. that he loves and she should love him (at at least the audience feels she should, anyway), but for whatever reason does not. He could send both good and bad messages doing this depending on the choices that are made by both parties after that. So, in that sense I wouldn't find it objectionable, depending on the message and treatment of everyone involved. Poison offers one possible positive message.

Personally, I feel it one thing to say Naruto is deserving or deserves her love, but it's another to criticize her for not offering it. She has no obligation and it doesn't speak poorly of her simply to reject it nor does it automatically speak poorly if her to choose Sasuke. There are ways she could go about rejecting it that would speak poorly of her, but Kishimoto isn't going to do that to her. I would also keep this in mind: while I think the chances of her ending up with Sasuke are near zero, if Kishimoto did this she's not getting together in with Sasuke as he currently is. She would be the one, like SS fans argue, that would bring about that change. Since Naruto's already slated to do this, I don't see it happening, and I'm not sure what the message would be in that pairing at that point. The other one that comes to mind is also being communicated heavily through the Naruto-Sasuke relationship. I just don't know what she does for him that Naruto isn't already doing.

If Kishimoto did go that route, it would be a changed and redeemed Sasuke that she would get together with. I think whether he deserved it or not would almost be besides the point because he's not going to deserve the redemption Naruto's going to give him either. Redemption has repeatedly been offered to the undeserving in this series.

Anyway, the reason I find the "deserve" argument poor is because even in its early hayday it has had nowhere to go. Hinata deseveres Naruto because she noticed his pain first or confessed first. Naruto deserves Sakura because of the reasons you cited. Either one of those parties doesn't really deserve the other or somebody is not getting what they deserve. Moreover, I think it is correct to say that focusing on that does tend to subjigate the feelings of the other party. I think it wrong to do whether the person who is being disregarded is Naruto or Sakura. To me the only difference between the various camps is who gets the short end of it.

QUOTE
I personally think Kishi made Naruto have such a selfless love for Sakura, one that isn't matched by anyone else, because he wants to let us know that the most important thing that you can do for the one you love the most is to always think about their happiness. He wants to let us know that if you treat the one you love with such level of care and respect that they can eventually look your way and love you the way you love them.


Since Naruto is the focal point of the story, most messages will get told through him and by extension yes, her reciprocate I think it does suggest is that if you treat the one you love right that they will eventually return that love back to you. But really, is that truly the core message here? It's certaintly a consequence. I think your description feels almost limiting on what he is doing though because Naruto's goal really isn't to earn her love. He wants it, no doubt, but it isn't why he does what he does. He does it because he loves her regardless of result.

I'm trying to think of the best way to word it, but I can't think of anything right now.

QUOTE
What annoys me is that some people want to twist around such a nice message and make it sound as if it was that Naruto should be entitled to Sakura just because he's being nice. Putting it that way makes it sound as if Naruto is only being nice to Sakura so that he can get her, when in reality is the precise opposite of that. The message is about how genuine selflessness from your part can lead to someone loving you back. It was never about just acting nice with the expectations of getting love in return.


That's not really the complaint. It's not that he is doing for self-serving reasons, I think that flies in the face of the evidence. The complaint really is that her feelings are being treated as immaterial in the matter. That because he has done things that make him deserving of her love she is obligated to return it or worse, a b*tch for not doing so.

QUOTE
Since Naruto is the only one who has shown such a level of selfless romantic love then them not getting together would completely nullify that message. If Naruto had fallen in love with another girl, say in the middle of the story, and shown that selfless love to her then the story could still keep its proper flow. But Kishi probably didn't want to make anymore complications about development so he made Naruto only love Sakura in his story.


It would change it, yes. What Coffee mentioned is one possibility. I, for one, would fail to see the point of having the hero's romantic endgame be that message when it's already been demonstrated two times by that very hero and when the messages that would be shown through SS, are already being done through Naruto-Sasuke.

#5375 KnS

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:27 AM

QUOTE (Nate River @ Nov 7 2012, 08:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The reason I say that is because I cannot think of an actual example of the following, but I suppose if Kishimoto wanted to employ it as a story-telling device where he has Naruto do everything in his power to show, prove, etc. that he loves and she should love him (at at least the audience feels she should, anyway), but for whatever reason does not.

I've been dredging my memory, trying to think of an example too, and it's not easy -- at least not one that is truly equivalent.

There are loads of examples where the sympathetic hero doesn't get the girl. A few that spring to mind: Bruce Wayne in the recent Batman film franchise (he loved Rachel but she chose to marry Harvey Dent before her death); Rick Blaine in Casablanca (he loved Ilsa but she left with her husband); James Bond in Casino Royale (in both the novel and recent film he falls in love with Vesper Lynd but she was a double agent and dies); Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights (Cathy marries Edgar Linton), etc. But in all these cases the woman actually loved the hero at one point, and they were kept apart by timing or tragic circumstances.

Off the top of my head, the only example I can think of that's close is King Arthur. At least one variation of the legend holds that while Arthur loved Guinevere, she never loved him as she was always in love with Lancelot.

Point being, if it is this difficult to come up with examples, it's not likely Kishimoto will construct a plot where his hero's love is not returned. However, all the examples I mentioned are from western culture. I'm not as familiar with relationship tropes in Asian literature/film.


QUOTE (Nate River @ Nov 7 2012, 08:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But really, is that truly the core message here? It's certaintly a consequence. I think your description feels almost limiting on what he is doing though because Naruto's goal really isn't to earn her love. He wants it, no doubt, but it isn't why he does what he does. He does it because he loves her regardless of result.

Yeah, I think the simplicity (purity?) of Naruto's personal character (and Kishimoto's characterization) precludes any sort of love or love-related recognition goal on his part. I don't believe it would ever enter Naruto's mind to do or say anything for the purpose of "proving his love" or proving his selflessness. Naruto isn't a thinker. He feels and then he acts.

And honestly, I'm not sure Kishimoto is shooting for a Big Message with Naruto's devotion to Sakura, either. Maybe. But to me it seems that Naruto's love for Sakura is less of an intentional moral fable than it is a simple extension of Kishimoto's characterization of his hero. He created Naruto with certain elemental qualities -- selflessness, thoughtfulness, kindness, and purity of spirit among them -- and the fact that Naruto displays these qualities in the natural expression of his feelings for Sakura might simply be consistency in characterization on Kishimoto's part.

I'm so tired... I'm not sure anything I just wrote makes any sense. x__X




#5376 PhenixElite

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:13 AM

QUOTE (KnS @ Nov 8 2012, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've been dredging my memory, trying to think of an example too, and it's not easy -- at least not one that is truly equivalent.

There are loads of examples where the sympathetic hero doesn't get the girl. A few that spring to mind: Bruce Wayne in the recent Batman film franchise (he loved Rachel but she chose to marry Harvey Dent before her death); Rick Blaine in Casablanca (he loved Ilsa but she left with her husband); James Bond in Casino Royale (in both the novel and recent film he falls in love with Vesper Lynd but she was a double agent and dies); Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights (Cathy marries Edgar Linton), etc. But in all these cases the woman actually loved the hero at one point, and they were kept apart by timing or tragic circumstances.

Off the top of my head, the only example I can think of that's close is King Arthur. At least one variation of the legend holds that while Arthur loved Guinevere, she never loved him as she was always in love with Lancelot.

Point being, if it is this difficult to come up with examples, it's not likely Kishimoto will construct a plot where his hero's love is not returned. However, all the examples I mentioned are from western culture. I'm not as familiar with relationship tropes in Asian literature/film.



Yeah, I think the simplicity (purity?) of Naruto's personal character (and Kishimoto's characterization) precludes any sort of love or love-related recognition goal on his part. I don't believe it would ever enter Naruto's mind to do or say anything for the purpose of "proving his love" or proving his selflessness. Naruto isn't a thinker. He feels and then he acts.

And honestly, I'm not sure Kishimoto is shooting for a Big Message with Naruto's devotion to Sakura, either. Maybe. But to me it seems that Naruto's love for Sakura is less of an intentional moral fable than it is a simple extension of Kishimoto's characterization of his hero. He created Naruto with certain elemental qualities -- selflessness, thoughtfulness, kindness, and purity of spirit among them -- and the fact that Naruto displays these qualities in the natural expression of his feelings for Sakura might simply be consistency in characterization on Kishimoto's part.

I'm so tired... I'm not sure anything I just wrote makes any sense. x__X

I personaly think that you all are just analyzing the characterizations too much. Kishi made this manga to deliver a message and this message was also made for kids starting in the age of 12 and i dont think they would understand any kind of the characteristics your talking about.

I think we should take the characters how they seem to come over and dont look to deep inside their various feelings.
Also we sbouldnt compare the pairing of a manga with the pairings of an simple movie. The savest line to find out how this manga is going to end regarding the pairing is to look how other shounen mangas end.

I think kishi is just taking the simple hero x tsundere road without any weired thoughts in the background.

Edited by PhenixElite, 08 November 2012 - 08:17 AM.

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#5377 narulsaku

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:28 AM

i do agree all the parallals and devlopmemt seems like that.

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#5378 Canadian_DJ

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:50 AM

Man about the narusaku bridal scene in road to ninja......man when i saw it i felt my heart sink to my stomach, i mean the look of closure on both of their faces and the wau they're looking into eachothers eyes with their faces so close to eachother.....as if they're about to kiss any second.....man thats some serious love right there i tell ya though i didn't exactly fangirl at the moment i was just so astonished at the way kishi played things out...man and ppl are in denial bout this pairirng.Now im posotive naruto and sakura are gonna kiss, especially after the chapter where baruto met all the jinjuriki along with the tailed beasts, when naruto felt sorry for the three tailed jinjuriki, im positive theu're gonna kiss.

13080302030649702.gif~                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ナル~サク 4/3 The day he fell in love with her ♥ 豪傑 そて 婦 hero, great man and heroine, brave woman°°°★Official Top Ten overall NARUTO characters: 1. Kakashi 2.Naruto 3.Sasuke 4.Iruka 5.Shikamaru 6.Gaara 7.Sakura 8.Neji 9.Itachi 10.Lee★°°° <p>Best ofナル~サク


#5379 PhenixElite

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:01 PM

QUOTE (Canadian_DJ @ Nov 8 2012, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Man about the narusaku bridal scene in road to ninja......man when i saw it i felt my heart sink to my stomach, i mean the look of closure on both of their faces and the wau they're looking into eachothers eyes with their faces so close to eachother.....as if they're about to kiss any second.....man thats some serious love right there i tell ya though i didn't exactly fangirl at the moment i was just so astonished at the way kishi played things out...man and ppl are in denial bout this pairirng.Now im posotive naruto and sakura are gonna kiss, especially after the chapter where baruto met all the jinjuriki along with the tailed beasts, when naruto felt sorry for the three tailed jinjuriki, im positive theu're gonna kiss.

Same here!
But well naruto kissed sasuke, so why not sakura too? wink.gif

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#5380 Branden

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:09 PM

QUOTE (Canadian_DJ @ Nov 8 2012, 03:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Man about the narusaku bridal scene in road to ninja......man when i saw it i felt my heart sink to my stomach, i mean the look of closure on both of their faces and the wau they're looking into eachothers eyes with their faces so close to eachother.....as if they're about to kiss any second.....man thats some serious love right there i tell ya though i didn't exactly fangirl at the moment i was just so astonished at the way kishi played things out...man and ppl are in denial bout this pairirng.Now im posotive naruto and sakura are gonna kiss, especially after the chapter where baruto met all the jinjuriki along with the tailed beasts, when naruto felt sorry for the three tailed jinjuriki, im positive theu're gonna kiss.

I like to think of movies as fanfictions. To me, Road to Ninja is what what Kishi would make if he were a Naruto fan. I know it's a weird way of putting it, but I think it explains a lot. It's noncannon and what he really wanted to do with the series, but never had a chance to.

Isn't what fanfic is? Something you really wanted to see in the series...

That said I'm puzzled why Kishi didn't post in the H&E Library.

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