54216 replies to this topic

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

 

I can see Naruto and Sakura making that bet and I can also see Sakura missing on purpose just to kiss Naruto.

[Phantom_999]

Say does anyone have that interview where kishimoto was saying how sakura was being honest about her feelings in the land of iron?

 

On that topic, I must reiterate once again that Naruto was not saying Sakura was lying about her feelings for him in the first place in the direct context of that chapter, because nowhere did Naruto directly say to Sakura's face that she was lying and still loves Sasuke, or something along those lines. That would been direct and to the point, which by the way is how things play out unless the topic is danced around to be addressed at a later date. Naruto started acting suspicious because Sakura was saying Sasuke meant nothing to her anymore which Naruto knew was an outright lie. he knows Sakura too well to buy that for a second. they've been best friends and shared a goal to bring Sasuke back together so that is what he was calling her out on, otherwise the words exchanged and dialogue in general don't make sense to me. 

[catsi563]

Yeah Sakuras confession was honest NOT fake the context of the story to that point leads to no other conclusions

 

the only point of Dishonesty in the confession was When he asked her whats going on he sensed something had changed.

 

this was the rookies decision about sasuke where they decided to take Naruto out of the equation by ""taking care of "" sasuke themselves by whatever means needed

 

she refused to tell him this and he could feel that something was off in the way she WASNT telling him something important which is where things go sideways for her as she laughs and tries to deflect his suspicions from that line of questioning

 

So in the end she was saying her feelings fully honestly but the conflict was raised by the lie of omission about sasuke and the rookies decision to end him if needed

[Bail o' Lies]

Without looking at the scene (for years) from what I recall. Naruto was surprised/amazed like everyone else until she said something along the lines of, "Well, now that you're dating me, you don't have to chase after Sasuke anymore, and we can both go back to the village." Which then made Naruto suspicious. Since, why would being with Sakura mean having to give up on bringing Sasuke back to the village?

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Without looking at the scene (for years) from what I recall. Naruto was surprised/amazed like everyone else until she said something along the lines of, "Well, now that you're dating me, you don't have to chase after Sasuke anymore, and we can both go back to the village." Which then made Naruto suspicious. Since, why would being with Sakura mean having to give up on bringing Sasuke back to the village?

And it didn't help when Sai explained what Sakura was gonna do, Naruto also made it feel like that hemfelt Sakura wasn't honest about saying she loved him with all his talk about her loving Sasuke due to his beliefs he isn't worthy of Sakura or some stupid crap like that, so THAT didn't help at all!

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

You know what just occurred to me about NS fans and SS fans about Sakura? We care about Sakura's well being. We want her to be with a person that treats her right rather be with a douchebag like Sasuke.

[sushi.]

You know what just occurred to me about NS fans and SS fans about Sakura? We care about Sakura's well being. We want her to be with a person that treats her right rather be with a douchebag like Sasuke.

Sakuras confession, and Sasukes reaction to it, ruined both NS and SS. He plainly said he wasnt interested. Its like it was done on purpose, at that time Sasuke was supposed to be good. And usually I dont blame Sasukes treatment of Sakura because she really does annoy him, but putting a genjutsu on her that he kills her was a bit much. And SS fans say Sakura thinks Naruto is annoying which is a bit lol). Kishi couldve made the best out of the situation, instead he made a bigger wreck of it. TL couldve included some NH moments in the manga but it made up retcon moments instead.

The same with Hinatas tripping. Both moments were so late in the series Kishi had got to know the ending at that point. I always felt like Kishi was very bitter about his ending. Would explain Himawari knocking her dad out on his most important day, Narutos treatment of Hinatas bento etc.

Besides Sakura lost her position as the heroine the moment she was no longer the love interest. SS fans should be mad. When asked if NS was to be endgame, Kishi said Sakura was not a heroine, no more important than Kiba, even though that was not the question. He also made her jealous of Hinata being the heroine.

Edited by sushi., 05 August 2021 - 05:07 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

You know what just occurred to me about NS fans and SS fans about Sakura? We care about Sakura's well being. We want her to be with a person that treats her right rather be with a douchebag like Sasuke.

SS fans use her as an insert character. So, they can fantasies about being with the dreamy bad boy. It doesn't matter what Sakura or Sasuke actually think of each other they just there the fulfil the ss fangirls fantasies of passionate romance and sex with the sexy bad boy. As long as nothing directly contradicts that they don't care. Which is why they were having fits over Salad gaiden. With the whole Sasuke hasn't bothered to return to her for 12 years, never kissed her, and likely rarely had sex with her.

 

Sakura's confession, and Sasuke's reaction to it, ruined both NS and SS. He plainly said he wasn't interested. Its like it was done on purpose, at that time Sasuke was supposed to be good. And usually I don't blame Sasuke's treatment of Sakura because she really does annoy him, but putting a genjutsu on her that he kills her was a bit much. And SS fans say Sakura thinks Naruto is annoying which is a bit lol). Kishi could've made the best out of the situation, instead he made a bigger wreck of it. TL could've included some NH moments in the manga but it made up retcon moments instead.

The same with Hinata's tripping. Both moments were so late in the series Kishi had got to know the ending at that point. I always felt like Kishi was very bitter about his ending. Would explain Himawari knocking her dad out on his most important day, Naruto's treatment of Hinata's bento etc.

Besides Sakura lost her position as the heroine the moment she was no longer the love interest. SS fans should be mad. When asked if NS was to be endgame, Kishi said Sakura was not a heroine, no more important than Kiba, even though that was not the question. He also made her jealous of Hinata being the heroine.

The first confession was Sasuke was leaving the village and abandoning everything in pursuit of revenge. Sakura was trying to used the love she believed he had for her to convince him to stay. The crux being the bench scene, but since they are thinking of different events (she the forehead compliment Naruto gave her while disguised as Sasuke, he recalls calling her annoying) it doesn't resonant like she wanted. Then realizing this she got desperate and Sasuke knocked her out.

 

Near the end of the manga Sakura just begs them to stop fighting. However, by this point Sasuke really doesn't care about her and needs to fight Naruto so they can challenge each others ideals and plans. So, he knocks her out this time with a vicious illusion of him killing her because she was an annoyance to him.

  

They were fine with her losing her heroine status as long as she has passionate sex with dreamy bad boy.

 

The 'no more important that kiba' was from a "Corporate Shill" era interview. 

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 14 August 2021 - 02:44 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

SS fans use her as an insert character. So, they can fantasies about being with the dreamy bad boy. It doesn't matter what Sakura or Sasuke actually think of each other they just there the fulfil the ss fangirls fantasies of passionate romance and sex with the sexy bad boy. As long as nothing directly contradicts that they don't care. Which is why they were having fits over Salad gaiden. With the whole Sasuke has bother to return to her for 12 years, never kissed her, and likely rarely had sex with her.

 

The first confession was Sasuke was leaving the village and abandoning everything in pursuit of revenge. Sakura was trying to used the love she believed he had for her to convince him to stay. The crux being the bench scene, but since they are thinking of different events (she the forehead compliment Naruto gave her while designed as Sasuke, he recalls calling her annoying) it doesn't resonant like she wanted. Then realizing this she got desperate and Sasuke knocked her out.

 

Near the end of the manga Sakura just begs them to stop fighting. However, by this point Sasuke really doesn't care about her and needs to fight Naruto so they can challenge each others ideals and plans. So, he knocks her out this time with a vicious illusion of him killing her because she was an annoyance to him.

  

They were fine with her losing her heroine status as long as she has passionate sex with dreamy bad boy.

 

The 'no more important that kiba' was from a "Corporate Shill" era interview. 

 

Well said stuff, Bail, but the irony is, Kishimoto contradicted the idea of Sasuke and Sakura really being married with the DNA test that shows Sarada is Karin's biological daughter, even with Karin's lies to Suigetsu about it when DNA tests rarely will be inaccurate. But they just assume it was a lie because they are only convincing themselves that it's one just to make themselves feel better.

 

And really, besides ideals, I see it as Sasuke just wanting, once more, to fight Naruto just to be better than someone else, like much of his desires of killing Itachi was just to prove he was better than him.

[Phantom_999]

You know what just occurred to me about NS fans and SS fans about Sakura? We care about Sakura's well being. We want her to be with a person that treats her right rather be with a douchebag like Sasuke.

 

If Sasuke DID treat her right, I wouldn't be complaining. Even after they married, he still leaves her on her own and only comes back when it is convenient for him and his first priority is not to visit her or his daughter. What is even more insulting though, is that not only were their "issues" resolved with a half-kitten sorry, Sakura regressed back to that squealing 12 year old fan girl she was before like none of her character development mattered at all. 

 

With Naruto, Sakura is genuinely happy and herself, not a mindless fangirl blushing, giggling and playing yes woman to anything that Naruto says or does. She is just a regular girl around him and pushes Naruto to be better just like Naruto inspired her to improve herself. Not to mention they show their whole range of emotions to each other like a true relationship of any kind should be. I can never say this enough, NaruSaku had a wholesome healthy relationship and was the main relationship the writing was pushing for throughout the series' run. The only ones that opposed it are those that over-romanticize the dynamics between SasuSaku and NaruHina, just plain wanted Naruto end up with an airheaded dutchwife that would never question or oppose him because of blatant negative bias with Sakura's initial behavior towards him, or were actually ignorant of what a tsundere is 

Edited by Phantom_999, 09 August 2021 - 05:34 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

If Sasuke DID treat her right, I wouldn't be complaining. Even after they married, he still leaves her on her own and only comes back when it is convenient for him and his first priority is never to visit her or his daughter. What is even more insulting though, is that not only were their "issues" resolved with a half-kitten sorry, Sakura regressed back to that squealing 12 year old fan girl she was before like none of her character development ever mattered at all. 
 
With Naruto, Sakura is genuinely happy and herself, not a mindless fangirl blushing giggling and playing yes woman to anything that Naruto says or does, she is just a regular girl around him and pushes Naruto to be better just like Naruto inspired her to improve herself. Not to mention they show whole their whole range of emotions to each other like a true relationship of any kind should be. I can never say this enough, NaruSaku had a wholesome healthy relationship and was the main relationship the writing was pushing for throughout the series itself. The only ones that opposed it are those that over-romanticize the dynamics between SasuSaku and NaruHina, or just plain wanted Naruto end up with an airheaded dutchwife that would never question or oppose him because of blatant negative bias with Sakura's initial behavior towards Naruto or just plain ignorance of what a tsundere actually is

Damn straight, and well said!

[Bail o' Lies]

Well said stuff, Bail, but the irony is, Kishimoto contradicted the idea of Sasuke and Sakura really being married with the DNA test that shows Sarada is Karin's biological daughter, even with Karin's lies to Suigetsu about it when DNA tests rarely will be inaccurate. But they just assume it was a lie because they are only convincing themselves that it's one just to make themselves feel better.

 

And really, besides ideals, I see it as Sasuke just wanting, once more, to fight Naruto just to be better than someone else, like much of his desires of killing Itachi was just to prove he was better than him.

You forgotten chapter ten. Where Karin quickly explained that away. Though in a way that made it sound like kishimoto was considering making Karin the mother, and was probably even going for it (since he doesn't like SS); until his editors gave him all the SS threat mail. He later said in a interview he let the reader decided who the mother is, but officially Sakura is the mother because they need SS financing Boruto. 

 

Probably. When something has multiple possible reasons for an event happening it best to just assume its a mixture of those reasonings.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 07 August 2021 - 08:08 AM.

[Moon_Girl]

I always felt like Kishi was very bitter about his ending. Would explain Himawari knocking her dad out on his most important day, Narutos treatment of Hinatas bento etc.

Kishimoto being bitter about the ending seems pretty obvious. For the reasons you stated, plus the suddenly shoving Hinatata's into the heroine spotlight and dropping false praise onto her for being the 'byakugan princess' and 'oh so stronk'. The interviews of Hinatata being supportive from the shadows kind of heroine and Sasuke being like a drug to Sakura.

Not to mention, how horribad the SS ''marriage'' is. Sasuke never kissing Sakura, but apparently knocked her up?? Never being around despite Naruto saying he should be. Leaving Sakura to try and manage a crippling debt and raising a child all by herself. To top it all off, Sasuke should know how important parents are to a child. Just like Naruto has no excuse for ditching his kids other than he may just dislike them.

The "who is the real mother" gaiden chapter was pretty obviously another jab at it all. There's so many little holes you could poke into that chapter. Naruto actually believed that Sasuke could have knocked Karin up and she was Salad's real mother. What does this tell us?
That Naruto and Sakura never see each other anymore apparently. Out of nine months of pregnancy, he never saw Sakura pregnant? Did anyone see her pregnant?? That could have helped a bunch.
Kishimoto saying "the read decides the mother" was probably just his way of avoiding hate from the SS crowd. Any sane person would not look at that chapter and go; "Oh yeah, Sakura is the real mother." without question. 

With how bad SS marriage is and Gaiden highlighting that (Sakura not remembering if Sasuke ever had glasses?? How???? If she was so obsessed with him her whole dang life. The photo she shoved herself in when it was actually a photo of him with other team, Sasuke not being around for Salad's birth and first 12 dang years of life at all, Sakura's single motherhood and crippling debt, never having kissed, over working herself and she apparently has had bad health that makes her faint, for a while??, Sasuke and Sakura never giving Salad a straight answer, Karin having the umbilical cord despite that right belonging to the birth mother, Salad needing glasses and the glasses were a gift from Karin...)

Like, c'mon. A giant clusterfk. I really don't doubt that Kishimoto was doing it all on purpose. He's not happy with the ending. But he's realizing now that it's forever going to be stuck to him. He can't get away from it. (Hence his cut short new manga and returning to Burrito)
He gave the shippers their horribad ships and tried to make them train wreaks without overtly doing so. He failed to realize how delusional shippers are. Some will worship their OTP no matter how bad it gets and romanticize everything. Even if it's bad. Sasuke could murder Sakura in cold blood and they'd STILL find a way to say that their ship is perfection all while making it some kind of Romeo and Juliet tragic romance. I 10000% guarantee it.

And Hinata is doing exactly what Kishimoto wrote her to be. A plain, boring, personalitiless, bend-over-backwards, cardboard, long retired ninja who gave up on her clan, selfish af, anything for nawooto-koon, housewife who can't even raise their children right. (Studio Perriot's attempt to turn her into Kushina/Sakura is something I deem non-canon. The only canon that shows her motherly skills is when she let Burrito walk all over her till she cried and her ignoring the safety of her own fukin children, kids 12 and under, over Naruto, the fking hokage. How deranged do you have to be to have no faith in your 'most powerful ninja of the village' husband but think your literal 12 and under children are a-okay? And then, like history repeating itself, needed to be saved by Sakura.) A waste of space, ink, time and resources.
 

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 

Regardless of Kishimoto being bitter or not, I still place the blame on him. Along with his horny editors and horny studio perriot. He didn't stand his ground and caved into the pressure. A few loud fans got what they wanted and the silent majority disappeared. He made his bed and he can lay on it.
I really hope his wife still gives him crap about the ending. I really, really do. Because he deserves it.

[BlueStarSaber]

Kishimoto has done a new sketch for a tennis player at the Olympics with naruto and sakura https://twitter.com/...3763030018?s=19

[Namaenash]

Not sure if a genuine gesture or a shameless plug riding onto Olympics euphoria to sell his product (or ask NS to come back and finance the franchise again). He could have chosen Sasuke and Sakura, or Naruto and Hinata. Or Team 7, or just Naruto.

But no, let's stir unnecessary debate and let's garner internet points by putting in Naruto and Sakura instead.

What a joke. Shame on you Kishi.

[TheFirstEvil100]

Kishimoto has done a new sketch for a tennis player at the Olympics with naruto and sakura https://twitter.com/...3763030018?s=19

Just a shame that they are all thinking that this SS

[sushi.]

At least they look their normal selves, who the f is that balding sad old man in burrito anyway

NH fans can have that one and we can have the normal nardoxD

Oh, and Moongirl, I just read a boruto movie overview and now Im even more convinced. Naruto is even worse a dad than I thought, I thought he was just neglectful like Sas. But hes worse, hes downright abusive and spends all his time in his office to purposely avoid his family. There are good SNS moments, mild anti nh/ss, but Naruto barely smiles and looks depressed most of the time. Its like a dystopian whatif verse.

The boruto manga actually has some happy family moments, but its not written by Kishi, until now.

Edited by sushi., 09 August 2021 - 10:07 PM.

[Phantom_999]

Kishimoto has done a new sketch for a tennis player at the Olympics with naruto and sakura https://twitter.com/...3763030018?s=19

 

Couldn't care less. this franchise means nothing to me anymore. Naruto and Sakura? Whatever. It will never erase the damage done or the betrayal I felt. As stated already, why not draw Naruto with his dutchwife? their "hooking up movie" already declared the friendship with him and Sakura was a complete farce.  No amount of retconning and Sakura stating they are closer than family will ever erase that

Edited by Phantom_999, 09 August 2021 - 05:43 PM.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Is there a way for Kishi to redeem himself?

[TheFirstEvil100]

 

Couldn't care less. this franchise means nothing to me anymore. Naruto and Sakura? Whatever. It will never erase the damage done or the betrayal I felt. As stated already, why not draw Naruto with his dutchwife? their "hooking up movie" already declared the friendship with him and Sakura was a complete farce.  No amount of retconning and Sakura stating they are closer than family will ever erase that

Lol, true only think that is good is seeing us real fans make art, do better stories that don't kitten over Naruto or Sakura, and so much more.

 

Is there a way for Kishi to redeem himself?

Nope, because he will never admit he kittened up, not just him but SP as well.