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H&E's NaruSaku Debate Thread!


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#5201 TerrorKing

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 02:19 PM

QUOTE (James S Cassidy @ Oct 24 2012, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Possibly a bit of both. He doesn't have to necessarily kill Sakura, but just use her to get under Naruto's skin. Cell didn't necessarily kill any of his friends, but Gohan still got pretty pissed off when he used clones to beat them up savagely.

I wouldn't be surprised because Sasuke saw how much Naruto fought when Gaara threatened to kill Sakura if Naruto didn't beat him and if he really wanted to push Naruto to that point, it would be a great way to do it.


Yeah. I would really hate for Sakura to die, not so much because it would mean that NH could become canon or anything like that, but more because it would just be really really really sad. But yeah, a scenario like that would certainly help up the stakes while also making Sasuke more villain like. It would certainly be a very dark twist that would push Naruto's ideals about saving Sasuke to the brink.

QUOTE (Codus N @ Oct 24 2012, 10:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
P.S.: Terrorking, that's an awesome scenario. I'd love to see that happen.


Which one? The one where Sasuke kills or beats Sakura or the one where he "crufiies" her? I don't know why, but it just totally seems like something that Sasuke would do, at least the Sasuke we knew up until his reunion with Itachi. He knows how important Sakura is to Naruto, so obviously using her against him like that would be a good way to either give him an edge in battle or to make Naruto owe up to all his talk about saving him and beign his equal.

Edited by TerrorKing, 24 October 2012 - 02:20 PM.

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#5202 Codus N

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 02:48 PM

QUOTE (TerrorKing @ Oct 24 2012, 09:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Which one? The one where Sasuke kills or beats Sakura or the one where he "crufiies" her? I don't know why, but it just totally seems like something that Sasuke would do, at least the Sasuke we knew up until his reunion with Itachi. He knows how important Sakura is to Naruto, so obviously using her against him like that would be a good way to either give him an edge in battle or to make Naruto owe up to all his talk about saving him and beign his equal.


The crucifying one.

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#5203 James S Cassidy

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:20 PM

QUOTE (TerrorKing @ Oct 24 2012, 06:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah. I would really hate for Sakura to die, not so much because it would mean that NH could become canon or anything like that, but more because it would just be really really really sad. But yeah, a scenario like that would certainly help up the stakes while also making Sasuke more villain like. It would certainly be a very dark twist that would push Naruto's ideals about saving Sasuke to the brink.


Agreed. I see it causing several things. Even if Sasuke just threatened to kill her and attempting to beat her savagely would not only drive home of him being a villain, but make this battle darker and really make Naruto use all his knowledge against him. Just seeing both Naruto and Sasuke pushed to their limits of strength and emotion would really satisfy me on a good battle.

We need Sasuke to be pushed to that edge otherwise his redemption is meaningless if he is unwilling to cross the line and stay there. This straddling the line irks a little.

Not only do we get this great view of Sasuke the villain, but we can get a good NaruSaku moment and Naruto will be truly tested on his views.

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#5204 narulsaku

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:59 AM

but if sakura would die then there wouldnt be ns. we can get sasuke and naruto beyond there limits at there fighting. as sasuke want to kill naruto and he found naruto is stronger than him the he ll push himself. and then atomaticaly naruto will push himself to defeat him. so sakura dont need to die too.

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#5205 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:18 AM

QUOTE (narulsaku @ Oct 24 2012, 11:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
but if sakura would die then there wouldnt be ns. we can get sasuke and naruto beyond there limits at there fighting. as sasuke want to kill naruto and he found naruto is stronger than him the he ll push himself. and then atomaticaly naruto will push himself to defeat him. so sakura dont need to die too.

Well you could make it look like she died from Sasuke. It only takes to make a person go mad if a person thinks a person died. It's about mentality.

I do want to know if Naruto will go to his limit against Sasuke, like ignore the fact he's Sasuke and go for the kill. Much like how he was trying to take out all Pain by using the killer move. But we will see soon...

#5206 PhenixElite

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:15 AM

Can someone tell me another shounen manga with a love trianlge? Maybe an already finished manga.

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#5207 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:34 AM

QUOTE (PhenixElite @ Oct 25 2012, 03:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Can someone tell me another shounen manga with a love trianlge? Maybe an already finished manga.

Slam Dunk had one, but yeah, didn't have a conclusion. If anything, it didn't go anywhere for the "SS" of Slam Dunk. I need to think more, but exactly what kind of love triangle are you asking for?

#5208 PhenixElite

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:45 AM

QUOTE (NaruSaku4Life3g @ Oct 25 2012, 07:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Slam Dunk had one, but yeah, didn't have a conclusion. If anything, it didn't go anywhere for the "SS" of Slam Dunk. I need to think more, but exactly what kind of love triangle are you asking for?

Something similar to naruto biggrin.gif

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#5209 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:53 AM

QUOTE (PhenixElite @ Oct 25 2012, 03:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Something similar to naruto biggrin.gif

Hm, gee, I don't know anything at the moment that fits in Shounen. I know love triangle happens a lot in Shoujo. That or maybe I'm not thinking so much on it at the moment. I can say that a tomboy girl or tsundare in this case with a main character is common and I know that there's always a shy girl or girl with big you-know-what, or another girl likes the hero, but don't like her the same. Usually, the guy who likes the girl and dreams to be with her usually comes true. Funny, that situation is happening now with Hitman Reborn! I want to see how that plays out and perhaps I will comment something that could relate here. Anyway, yeah, that's all I can say. Main hero and heroine clicks together every time (depending on the conditions).

#5210 PhenixElite

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:28 AM

QUOTE (NaruSaku4Life3g @ Oct 25 2012, 07:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hm, gee, I don't know anything at the moment that fits in Shounen. I know love triangle happens a lot in Shoujo. That or maybe I'm not thinking so much on it at the moment. I can say that a tomboy girl or tsundare in this case with a main character is common and I know that there's always a shy girl or girl with big you-know-what, or another girl likes the hero, but don't like her the same. Usually, the guy who likes the girl and dreams to be with her usually comes true. Funny, that situation is happening now with Hitman Reborn! I want to see how that plays out and perhaps I will comment something that could relate here. Anyway, yeah, that's all I can say. Main hero and heroine clicks together every time (depending on the conditions).

Well, well just realized that in other shounen the whole pairing canon part always happens in the last or one before the last chapter. I guess we'll get the same with NS.

At least we'll get more buildup till that point

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#5211 rocci

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:17 AM

well because i'm not creative enough to post an argument. i want to show you the discusion in mangafox naruto section.

this is one of the poster whom i agree with his/her about naruto POAL and felling.

credit for Sselinde as he/she write this post

First, I completely agree that regardless of the promise, Naruto would have gone to save Sasuke, and fought just as hard to bring him back. Because that’s exactly what canon tells us – Naruto was already going to save Sasuke before he made the POAL.

I have to disagree with the bolded, however. Naruto said that the promise has nothing to do with his own desire to bring Sasuke back. Which means that the promise was all about Sakura and Naruto’s feelings for her. He made it because he wanted to make Sakura happy, he wanted to give her reassurance.

\The POAL has since become Naruto’s measuring stick for his worth in regards to pursing Sakura romantically, if his words in 457 were any indication.

Basically, his feelings for Sasuke are separate and apart from his feelings for Sakura.

I agree completely – this is why I find it pretty amusing when people say that just because it’s a shounen, implied NaruSasu is completely ludicrous. I mean, ZabuHaku was so heavily implied its not even funny. Hell, I think the English dub even felt so uncomfortable about it that they turned Haku into a girl.

And Hinata isn’t that type? You are making it sound as though you believe Hinata would force Naruto to be with her, regardless of whether Naruto has romantic feelings for her or not, which as I’m sure we are both aware, is decidedly not the case.

Naruto has shown emotional pain at the idea of Sakura in love with Sasuke more than once. Hinata has shown no such pain.

Yes, and the same holds true for Naruto even more so. Naruto has shown no indication that his feelings for Sakura have changed at all, regardless of a recent lack of focus on them, whereas Sakura has been willing to give up on Sasuke’s redemption twice, and the last time her romantic feelings for him were brought up were in a decidedly negative light.

Naruto showed a better understanding of Hinata during the chuunin exams when he related her pain to Neji’s. Hinata’s feelings were written clearly on her face in 559, whereas Hinata’s feelings regarding her family and Neji were something that required Naruto to read between the lines from observing her fight with Neji and her words before his fight with Neji.

And none of that still shows anything romantic from Naruto’s side to Hinata. It’s the same concern, respect, gratitude and acknowledgement that he gave to her in the chuunin exams.

Hinata can want Naruto all she wants, she isn’t going to get with him unless Naruto also returns her feelings, which he has shown zero signs of doing as of yet.

The way I see it is this: IF Kishimoto is going to make a pairing canon by the end of the series, then someone’s feelings have to change. So the real question should be, who’s feelings are the most likely to change at this point given everything we’ve been shown?

Naruto’s had romantic feelings for Sakura since chapter 3, and as of chapter 469, they were still present. Naruto is not going to take the initiative with Sakura romantically until after the POAL is fulfilled, thus explaining his lack of serious pursuit of her in part two. He got angry at her in 469, giving a possible reason for him to change his feelings for her. However, we saw him coming to understand that Sakura was doing what she felt was in his best interests. We’ve seen him interacting and think of her since then, and there is nothing to indicate that he thinks any less or any differently of her than before. He still is protective of her, he still smiles around her, and she is the still the only girl that he addresses with the affectionate ‘-chan’ suffix.

Naruto definitely respects Hinata, and considers her a great friend. However, he hasn’t shown any romantic feelings for her at all, not even after her confession. He completely avoided talking to her afterwards, despite numerous opportunities in which to do so (in the days following the Pein attack, after returning from the summit when he went to get ramen, etc.). I think if Naruto were going to fall in love with Hinata, he would have shown something beyond just friendship for her by now, and he simply hasn’t.

Sakura is still in love with Sasuke, and has been since chapter 3 as well. However, as I stated earlier, she has been willing to give up on Sasuke’s redemption twice already, and 540 showed us that the event of the summit led to a drastic negative change in her perception of Sasuke. She clearly has the most negative view of her love interest at this point.

Sakura is not in love with Naruto, but she has shown something beyond friendship for him on numerous occasions (and she is the only one out of the big 3 pairings to show anything beyond friendship for the person who has unrequited feelings for her). She has displayed a clear physical attraction to him in 245, then Sai and Yamato have both commented on the nature and strength of her feelings for Naruto, and Sakura hugged Naruto intimately enough to elicit blushes from the crowd behind them, and dots in Hinata’s speech bubble.

Sasuke considered Sakura a friend and precious comrade, but has never shown anything romantic towards her. Hinata has given no indication that she’s going to give up on her feelings for Naruto.

Thus, Sakura is definitely the most likely to change her feelings at this point over any other character.

Between Naruto and Hinata’s feelings, I definitely believe that it is far more likely for Naruto to change Sakura’s heart and achieve what he wants, than for Hinata to change Naruto’s heart and achieve what she wants (over Naruto’s previously stated wants). Not only is Naruto the one with the canon power to change people, but he is also the main character.

I see Hinata’s feelings for Naruto, and Sakura’s feelings for Sasuke, being character development for the girls, rather than an indication that they will get together with their respective love interests. This is because neither Sasuke nor Naruto have shown any reciprocation back thus far, nor are their relationships with the girls all that strong either, respectively.

Naruto and Sakura’s relationship, on the other hand, has shown feelings beyond friendship on both sides, as well as a rather consistent focus on their relationship and an involvement in each other’s lives that the other relationships lack.

Hinata pretty much revolves around her feelings for Naruto and she is basing too much of her worth on Naruto’s opinion of her. It would be great to see, upon realizing and accepting that Naruto doesn’t love her, that while she still believes in Naruto, that she needs to find her own nindo and belief in life to follow. That she will base her worth on her own beliefs, and what she has accomplished.

Sakura’s romantic feelings (note I stress romantic feelings, as her comradery/friendship with Sasuke has brought some positive changes in her) have almost always been portrayed in a negative light. She neglected her training to look good for Sasuke, she broke off her first true friendship over Sasuke, she let Sasuke emotionally bulldoze over her multiple times (when she expressed worry for him during the preliminaries of the chuunin exam, and when he knocked the apples out of her hand at the hospital) the selfishness of her feelings were highlighted in her confession to Sasuke (being willing to betray her village, friends, and family to leave with him, even when she stated before that she knew revenge wouldn’t make him happy), then the events of the summit and her negative perception of him in 540. For her to get over such a negative one-sided love would only help Sakura’s character, and shown some maturity on her part (even though I’m sure some people feel her character to be unsalvageable at this point).

Naruto’s character, again in contrast, really wouldn’t gain anything by getting over his feelings for Sakura. His romantic feelings for her haven’t been a detriment to his character. He doesn’t revolve around his feelings for Sakura, nor have his feelings been presented as selfish (with the exception of his stunt in chapter 3). He doesn’t let his feelings for Sakura affect his self-respect either, as shown in chapter 469, when he stood his ground against her. They’ve almost always been presented as selfless and genuine and non-detrimental

Further, Naruto is the only who has yet to confess directly to his love interest. Sakura knows Naruto loves her, but Sai's objective in telling her was to get her to stop relying on Naruto, not to confess for Naruto by proxy. Thus, Sakura is unaware of Naruto's reasons for loving her (she said he thinks he's an idiot for loving her, thus indicating she doesn't think she's worthy of Naruto's love), and she is also probably unaware of the depth of them as well. If Sakura and Hinata got their chance to express their feelings, then Naruto as the main character will logically get his turn as well.

Thus, looking at everything we’ve been given in the manga thus far, if Kishimoto were going to make a pairing canon in the end, NaruSaku seems by far the most likely at this point.


and this is the link : http://forums.mangaf...37#post10679637

Edited by rocci, 25 October 2012 - 09:18 AM.


#5212 Jenskott

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:24 AM

QUOTE
Can someone tell me another shounen manga with a love trianlge? Maybe an already finished manga.


With a love triangle? Mazinger-Z has Kouji/Sayaka/Boss; Great Mazinger Tetsuya/Jun/Boss; Grendizer Duke/Hikaru/Rubina; Battle of the Planets/Gatchaman has Mark/Princess/Joe (I think); Touch has Tetsuya/Minami/Kazuya; City Hunter has Kaori/Ryo/any woman on the planet (Ryo was a huge pervert and Kaori a very jealousy Tsundere); Rumiko's Takahashi all series have love POLIGONS; Kimagure Orange Road has Kyosuke/Madoka/Hikaru; Slayers has Lina/Gourry/Silphiel (with Gourry being oblivious to the feelings of both girls, and Lina being in denial)...

There are plenty Shonen series with love triangles. Slam Dunk has the love triangle more similar to Naruto, probably.

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#5213 Gravenimage

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:55 AM

QUOTE (Jenskott @ Oct 25 2012, 02:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
With a love triangle? Mazinger-Z has Kouji/Sayaka/Boss; Great Mazinger Tetsuya/Jun/Boss; Grendizer Duke/Hikaru/Rubina; Battle of the Planets/Gatchaman has Mark/Princess/Joe (I think); Touch has Tetsuya/Minami/Kazuya; City Hunter has Kaori/Ryo/any woman on the planet (Ryo was a huge pervert and Kaori a very jealousy Tsundere); Rumiko's Takahashi all series have love POLIGONS; Kimagure Orange Road has Kyosuke/Madoka/Hikaru; Slayers has Lina/Gourry/Silphiel (with Gourry being oblivious to the feelings of both girls, and Lina being in denial)...

There are plenty Shonen series with love triangles. Slam Dunk has the love triangle more similar to Naruto, probably.


Don't forget Inuyasha had Inuyasa/Kagome/Kikyo.
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#5214 PhenixElite

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:33 AM

QUOTE (Jenskott @ Oct 25 2012, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
With a love triangle? Mazinger-Z has Kouji/Sayaka/Boss; Great Mazinger Tetsuya/Jun/Boss; Grendizer Duke/Hikaru/Rubina; Battle of the Planets/Gatchaman has Mark/Princess/Joe (I think); Touch has Tetsuya/Minami/Kazuya; City Hunter has Kaori/Ryo/any woman on the planet (Ryo was a huge pervert and Kaori a very jealousy Tsundere); Rumiko's Takahashi all series have love POLIGONS; Kimagure Orange Road has Kyosuke/Madoka/Hikaru; Slayers has Lina/Gourry/Silphiel (with Gourry being oblivious to the feelings of both girls, and Lina being in denial)...

There are plenty Shonen series with love triangles. Slam Dunk has the love triangle more similar to Naruto, probably.

QUOTE (Gravenimage @ Oct 25 2012, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Don't forget Inuyasha had Inuyasa/Kagome/Kikyo.


Yep thats quite a lot. Just thought that slam dunk is shoujo or the romance style is kind of shoujo.

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#5215 narulsaku

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:41 AM

inyusha is one of them i asked in my pairing topic for love triangle. and some have posted i am not sure about the manga .but there are love triangle. and jenskkot . wow thats huge. you should add that in ~pairings~

Edited by narulsaku, 25 October 2012 - 10:43 AM.


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#5216 Jenskott

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:10 PM

QUOTE
Don't forget Inuyasha had Inuyasa/Kagome/Kikyo.


I didn't. If you realize, I wrote "Rumiko Takahashi's all series".

QUOTE
Yep thats quite a lot. Just thought that slam dunk is shoujo or the romance style is kind of shoujo.


What? No, it is not. At all.

QUOTE
inyusha is one of them i asked in my pairing topic for love triangle. and some have posted i am not sure about the manga .but there are love triangle. and jenskkot . wow thats huge. you should add that in ~pairings~


Really it's not a huge list at all. There are a lot more Shonen series with love triangle. Those are the ones I could remember on the spur of the moment.

Now I think about it, you also have Asuka/Shinji/Rei/Kaworu from Evangelion...

And how could I forget Hikaru/Misa/Lynn from Macross/Robotech...

And Camille/Fa/Four from Gundam Zeta...

And Siren/Akira/Miki/Ryo from Devilman...

Sigh. I better stop now.

When you tell I should add that in "pairings" you mean the favorite pairings thread? I wrote a post in one of the first pages (albeit I didn't put down all of my favorite pairings).

Edit:

Nonetheless, I also could add:
- Captain Tsubasa: There was a love triangle, but I only remember the names of the official couple (Tsubasa/Sanae). Tsubasa had a very shy admiror was afraid of confessing and he barely interacted with (and she finally confessed only to get it out of her chest because knew Tsubasa loved Sanae) and Sanae had a stalker.
- Fist of the North Star: Kenshiro/Yuria/Shin (and half of the male martial artists of the series)

Edited by Jenskott, 25 October 2012 - 01:22 PM.

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#5217 Branden

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:55 PM

Aparently Obito wanted to be hokage. Now it can't be argued that Obito is parallel to Naruto

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#5218 CloudMountainJuror

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 02:11 PM

QUOTE (Branden @ Oct 25 2012, 08:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Aparently Obito wanted to be hokage. Now it can't be argued that Obito is parallel to Naruto

Funny thing is that Obito is a parallel to both Naruto and Sasuke. Moreso a dark Naruto.

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#5219 Gravenimage

Gravenimage

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 02:13 PM

QUOTE (zacrathedemon5 @ Oct 25 2012, 07:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Funny thing is that Obito is a parallel to both Naruto and Sasuke. Moreso a dark Naruto.


Yep we gotta hand it to Kishi for being in love with parallels. fu.png
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#5220 Branden

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 02:50 PM

QUOTE (zacrathedemon5 @ Oct 25 2012, 07:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Funny thing is that Obito is a parallel to both Naruto and Sasuke. Moreso a dark Naruto.

Not really. All the parallels are alike in certain aspects. It's each one has fragments of parallel to team 7 but aren't exactly parallel to them.

Team Sarutobi:
Jiraiya loved Tsunade but failed to ever confess to her. Naruto will confess.
Jiraiya failed to save Orochimaru from the path of evil. Naruto will save Sasuke from evil.
Jiraiya never become a perfect sage. Naruto will become a perfect sage.
Jiraiya couldn't bring peace to the world. Naruto will.

Team Minato:
I'm too lazy to analyze right now somebody else do it.

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