749 replies to this topic

[rocci]

Statement: If you have NaruHina canon but not SasuSaku, with them just being friends, it would be less violence in fans' reactions as well as "lessen" the damage to the overall series.

Agree or disagree?

Disagree, with or without pairing, naruto will always damaging.

Ss doesn't have legitimate canon chance because of sasuke doesn't show nor indicate romantic feeling to sakura.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Statement: It would have been a better idea to have female characters to do stuff but in return, plenty of fan service. Regardless, it would have been better than what we have today.

Agree or disagree?

[rocci]

Statement: It would have been a better idea to have female characters to do stuff but in return, plenty of fan service. Regardless, it would have been better than what we have today.

Agree or disagree?

I agree.
Naruto has more male fanservice rather than female one.

[NeonRanger]

As long at it not close to Fairy Tail's. I prefer Kubo. 

 

Then Agree. 

[TouKen4Life3g]

I agree. It may be a new way to endure if the fan service is the level of Fairy Tail, but out of it, I get something decent for once, nothing regressing or contradicting. So I am willing to accept it. But imagine the combo of Kishi's writing and fan service level of Mashima. That would be something to behold...

[TouKen4Life3g]

Statement: One of the main reason why people still adore Naruto a lot is because they came from the time where it was once new or special to their younger self; therefore, it made it hard to dislike or even in the middle ground. Because of it, they will shoehorn in there and praise it as it is.

Agree or disagree?

[Bail o' Lies]

Statement: One of the main reason why people still adore Naruto a lot is because they came from the time where it was once new or special to their younger self; therefore, it made it hard to dislike or even in the middle ground. Because of it, they will shoehorn in there and praise it as it is.

Agree or disagree?

For the most part agree. But Naruto wasn't that bad a manga until the war arc all thing considered, and didn't completely collapse into crap till the ending and everything after wards.

 

Statement: It would have been a better idea to have female characters to do stuff but in return, plenty of fan service. Regardless, it would have been better than what we have today.

Agree or disagree?

The problem with kishimoto's females -other then the parts where he is putting his foot in his mouth- is that he doesn't used his females enough. Though you can say that about most of his cast. Take Sakura for example. Because of the whole teamwork moral and the fact that she is the heroine. She should have been the third most important character at the least. Instead she became like the 20th at best by the end. He lack of use and focus on her is one of the more sane reasons people didn't like her.

[TouKen4Life3g]

For the most part agree. But Naruto wasn't that bad a manga until the war arc all thing considered, and didn't completely collapse into crap till the ending and everything after wards.
 
The problem with kishimoto's females -other then the parts where he is putting his foot in his mouth- is that he doesn't used his females enough. Though you can say that about most of his cast. Take Sakura for example. Because of the whole teamwork moral and the fact that she is the heroine. She should have been the third most important character at the least. Instead she became like the 20th at best by the end. He lack of use and focus on her is one of the more sane reasons people didn't like her.

It wasn't bad at first, that's true, but I feel like they carry that weight so much, that they will dismiss all the wrongs of the series. It's like what's happening now with other series. They may be great, but if the end result isn't as good or more like just make everything look like it's a shell of former self, then you have to take it into consideration. You think I'm not hurt by it? I am. That's why it sucked that Naruto ended up like that. It could have been good. It should have been good.

Yes, that's another problem as well. It always leave with that impression of "They want love, next."

Edited by TouKen4Life3g, 25 March 2016 - 12:39 PM.

[tricksie]

Statement: One of the main reason why people still adore Naruto a lot is because they came from the time where it was once new or special to their younger self; therefore, it made it hard to dislike or even in the middle ground. Because of it, they will shoehorn in there and praise it as it is.

Agree or disagree?

I disagree. I don't think people still hold a torch for the series because of nostalgia reasons.

 

I think Naruto fans who still talk about the series break down into two separate groups:

 

first, the fans who worshipped Hinata, got the ending they wanted and are now hanging around to see what the children do;

 

and second, the fans who hoped for any other ending than the fairy-tale Hinata version we got, and who still feel like the series was never finished. 

 

For the second group, Naruto's ending was almost tragic. He got nothing that he wanted. For the main character, the series never resolved his story. It makes it hard to dislike a hero who never won. I think that's why people still haven't closed the book on Naruto.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I disagree. I don't think people still hold a torch for the series because of nostalgia reasons.

 

I think Naruto fans who still talk about the series break down into two separate groups:

 

first, the fans who worshipped Hinata, got the ending they wanted and are now hanging around to see what the children do;

 

and second, the fans who hoped for any other ending than the fairy-tale Hinata version we got, and who still feel like the series was never finished. 

 

For the second group, Naruto's ending was almost tragic. He got nothing that he wanted. For the main character, the series never resolved his story. It makes it hard to dislike a hero who never won. I think that's why people still haven't closed the book on Naruto.

 

I concur with you on all of that, Tricksie. Especially since Naruto just got shoved to the side to make Sasuke and Hinata more important. Maybe Kishi should have just called the series "Sasuke" instead since he seemed to emphasize more on him than his own titular hero. =/

[tricksie]

 

I concur with you on all of that, Tricksie. Especially since Naruto just got shoved to the side to make Sasuke and Hinata more important. Maybe Kishi should have just called the series "Sasuke" instead since he seemed to emphasize more on him than his own titular hero. =/

Yes!! You know, I used to think it should be named 'Sasuke' almost as a joke - it was a back-handed insult I never thought it would be true!! I always thought Naruto would turn around in the end, he would come into his own and shine as the star and hero and savior of Konoha who gets the girl he wants. But none of that happened. Except for Hinata getting Naruto, everything else went Sasuke's way. Naruto was just forgotten about!

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Yes!! You know, I used to think it should be named 'Sasuke' almost as a joke - it was a back-handed insult I never thought it would be true!! I always thought Naruto would turn around in the end, he would come into his own and shine as the star and hero and savior of Konoha who gets the girl he wants. But none of that happened. Except for Hinata getting Naruto, everything else went Sasuke's way. Naruto was just forgotten about!

Even when he "loses" he wins in the end. Lost to Itachi, gains the Mangekyo Sharingan complete with already-awakened abilities via Itachi. Lost to Naruto, is pardoned for everything he's done and allowed to wander about and do as he pleases like nothing happened, and so on.

[Advaith]

Yes!! You know, I used to think it should be named 'Sasuke' almost as a joke - it was a back-handed insult I never thought it would be true!! I always thought Naruto would turn around in the end, he would come into his own and shine as the star and hero and savior of Konoha who gets the girl he wants. But none of that happened. Except for Hinata getting Naruto, everything else went Sasuke's way. Naruto was just forgotten about!

Exactly,back when manga was going on despite all everything being sasuke i always had this thought/belief that naruto would turn around in the end,he would come into his own and shine as the star and hero and savior of konoha who gets the girl he wants but none of that happened.All that happened was hinata getting naruto and everything else went sasuke's way.Naruto was just forgotten about.

 

It still boggles me that how can a story go this bad.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Part of me wants to agree because sometimes, they like to think that the memory is what makes it great. Like if first half of the series is a masterpiece and the rest is total garbage, they will still claim it the former for overall, because of the beginning. It's not to say that the answer should be total garbage, though depends on how much it hurt, but it should be a balance to its verdict. I know everyone has their own way, but I think it's a bit selfish to claim it. To each of their own.

[NeonRanger]

Honestly, I blame the fandom for the fav. wanking. I blame Kishi too, but only because he's a gullible fool. But the fandom/ character bias within the franchise itself, end up trashing the series.

 

 Sasuke was always first before Naruto. But that's only because you have Kishi who is an extreme Uchiha wanker, along with his assistants backed by a fandom who are also Uchiha apologists. We know enough about the Uchihas to actually create a college course about their history. Look at the arc we currently have. I love Sasuke, and I liked an ending where he traveled the world. But I hate the Uchihas, and the Sasuke wanking is unbelievable. 

 

Then you have Hinata who is loved by otakus and self-inserts. For some reason they grew in size, and even more so when backed by SP, CC2, and Kishi's assistants. She was also okay with SNS before The Last. Sasuke might have gotten a jail-free ending, but Sasuke didn't have a good ending either. He abandoned his goals as well as Naruto; both being horrible fathers in the end. Plus SP hates Sasuke as well. Hinata, for a secondary character has gotten everything she wanted and more because no one in the franchise hates her, and you have a fandom that wanks her beyond belief. 

 

At least Sasuke was part of the main cast. I hated the fact that Kishi was so focused on the Uchihas and Sasuke, and gave Naruto the short end of the stick. But when has Hinata made an impact on the manga? Yet, she had her own movie, had her own special filler episodes and most of her animation was made by her fanatics, and you have NNS that included scenes that were never in the manga at all, like her saving Naruto, and well as special move sets and being part of the main intro which hadn't happened, as far as I know in previous games. Hinata gain so much for some who wasn't even worthy as a secondary character (compared to characters like Shikamaru and Gaara). 

 

SNS is also wankfest material, backed by majority, even though it's also crap. 

 

In my opinion, Naruto grabbed the second to last of a short stick. This is horrible for a main character, but in the end Naruto was at a tug of war. It was Sasuke vs. Naruto, NS vs. NH vs. SNS, etc. and in the end one side was left being disappointed in the development. A lot of people sadly prefer Sasuke over Naruto, and some people saw Hinata as Naruto's number one choice, same with Sasuke. Some people see Naruto as happy with NH or NS or SNS, and some believe that Naruto should have died. With Naruto it's all up to interpretation of what they see is best for Naruto, even if it ignores canon.  We can say that Naruto has the bad end of the stick, but others see differently.

 

Sakura on the other had never even received a stick, or her short stick dropped in a pile of mud. We had to find out about Sakura's parents in a semi-canon movie that not everyone would follow up in. We have to create our own backstory because we never received any. Sakura's only major arc was the Gaara rescue arc where we were introduced of her potential. She didn't even need to have a major fight again in the manga. But for some one who is supposed to be main female lead, she has very little. You have SP where most mistreated Sakura, and Kishi's assistants who could care less about her. Then you have a large hate base behind them. Since then, Sakura has been downgraded to secondary character, she has been mocked in some interviews, and then you have Gaiden. Sakura has more haters than supporters and most of her supporters now are pro-SS. Karin ended up being more mature in Gaiden. You have a lot of the fandom who are happy (NH mainly) that she's a secondary, and says that the role suits her more than main. You also have people who had hate strong enough to reach Kishi. 

 

I just feel feel that the fandom, as well as bias in the workplace, had a lot to do with how each character will be in the end. This fandom is just toxic when it comes to favs. and hates.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Statement: Hinata probably has gain a lot more attention due to Sakura's characteristics not in favor with the fans; therefore, it gave them the reason to favor more towards Hinata as a heroine position, despite not being entitled as one. In other words, the boost to Hinata's popularity is partially credit to Sakura's character.

Agree or disagree?

Edited by TouKen4Life3g, 29 March 2016 - 04:33 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Statement: Hinata probably has gain a lot more attention due to Sakura's characteristics not in favor with the fans; therefore, it gave them the reason to favor more towards Hinata as a heroine position, despite not being entitled as one.

Agree or disagree?

Can you rephase this?

[NeonRanger]

Agree.

 

Though only NH shippers were the one pushing the heroine status. Most didn't care for Hinata, but even so a lot prefer Hinata over Sakura. Sakura was mistreated to the point where most were disappointed in her as a heroine. She only gained more haters when her negatives were more apparent and frequent than positives.

 

Then you have NH and SNS stans where Sakura pretty much was in the way of Sasuke and Naruto. They accuse her of being manipulative and selfish of both boy's feelings. 

 

Hinata was pretty much just there in part 2, but part 1 she had a decently fleshed out backstory and character. I read in a thread about least popular characters in NF and one poster ask about why Sakura was so hated compared to characters like Hinata who were just as bad. Another answered how female characters like Temari, Ino, and Hinata, despite Kishi mistreatment of females, were never touched to the point where the character becomes disliked, which is why they have less haters. I kind of agree with this. People carry more expectations for Sakura because she's a main character, as well as heroine lead. Yet three of the Naruto's self doubt moments in the manga were given to Hinata (proud failure speech, 436, 615). We had important moments as well with Sakura, but then you have the Five Kage and War Arc, and everything after. 

 

Hinata was one-sided and lacked character, but Sakura's character kept being bashed to where we had to recant a lot of our predictions of where she would be at a certain point in the manga (693). A lot of us hoped she would fight side by side with Naruto against Sasuke, but she ended up being knocked out by genjustu, which she was supposedly a master at. 

 

The Hinata hate only became noticeable after The Last because it retcon all of Naruto's bonds. But if The Last hadn't happened, people will prefer her over Sakura because she gotten farther as a secondary than Sakura did as a main. 

[TouKen4Life3g]

Can you rephase this?

Look at it again. Hopefully this helps.

Edited by TouKen4Life3g, 29 March 2016 - 04:34 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

I agree.
Naruto has more male fanservice rather than female one.

Find a balance like Erza and Yoruichi they both do thing and look good while doing at.