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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#51601 Phantom_999

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Posted 06 March 2020 - 09:14 PM

What's sad is that they've ruined that as well.
I don't know all the details, but there was an official novel where Hanabi and Hinata go to a hot spring and Hanabi disapproves of Hinata's relationship with Naruto. So they have a fighting match. In the hot springs.
And of course, mary-sue-hime wins because of her love for Naruto or something.

If that's not the picture perfect example of what this series has turned into, I don't know what is.

 
The question should actually be at this point " What WOULDN'T be ruined by these hacks?" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm just watching everything in this trash everything burn for my own amusement because this series makes me feel NOTHING now and from now on till the day I return to the earth and beyond :yes: I wonder when it will show Sakura's parents disproving her relationship with Sasuke next and them she disowns them :lmao:


Edited by Phantom_999, 06 March 2020 - 09:14 PM.

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#51602 Moon_Girl

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 08:38 AM

let me guess, the fight magically went into a standstill, as Hanabi watched Hinata sit there for at least 20 minutes having flashbacks about Naruto's hand to pump herself up, instead of Hanabi finishing her off? Hanabi should have slapped Hinata's head around until it faced the opposite direction.

To be honest, I don't know. I didn't read it. I want to keep my eyesight and brain cells, thanks. I just read a summary and even that nearly caused a brain aneurysm. 

 

 

 

Oh, that was that Boruto manga that came a year or two ago? Everyone stop caring about those here a few years ago so we never really talked about the details.

Was it? I swear it was some novel or something. I dunno. I don't remember how I stumbled across that summary. But it was on the Naruto subreddit and people were rolling their eyes.


NaruSaku will always be better than crack and fan fiction
 

#51603 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 08:37 PM

I can't remember exactly, but was Sakura-Chan around when the Sound Five showed up? 


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#51604 Phantom_999

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 12:35 AM

And then all the development from Sakura was instantly trumped and taken away by Hinata after!
 
No wait it was taken away by Sakura herself in a disgusting and nauseating chapter near the end... And Hinata didn't do anything.

 
Right, so I've been meaning to respond to this for a while. I was just collecting my thoughts. Indeed it was a terrible moment from both Sakura AND Naruto. It undoes Sakura's character development for all of the story and while it fall in line with Naruto's character to bend his back over for Sasuke, it makes him down right look unsympathetic that he wasn't angry with Sasuke or even call out what he did to Naruto's (actual) best friend (and love of his life). But I digress, we can both agree that IF the ways things did not play out as they did in chapter 699-700 maybe we wouldn't have such a problem with the characters themselves at this point. If Sakura did not show that she was still in love with the guy that tried to kill her and everyone she loved and destroy everything she cherished and show some maturity to MOVE ON FROM HIM, then she wouldn't look as bad as her anti-fans made her out to be. If Naruto showed some actual realistic character and not be so accommodating to Sasuke to the point you would be forgiven that they are secret yaoi guys for each other, and accept that Sasuke is doing all of these things of his own free will and treat him as he treated everyone else that took something precious away from him then he would not look nearly like the double "standard douche bag" that  he looks like now.
 
All of these problems lie with the fact that Naruto seems to only worry about and sympathize with those that are similar to him even if they make Morally unsound choices (WILLINGLY, might I add) that hurt others and destroy everything just to fulfill their own whims that he looks like he couldn't give an eff about anyone else. That does not make Naruto look like a truly all loving and all forgiving hero, it makes him look like a hypocritical idiot. Sakura has been proven to be exactly what what her haters paint her out to be. Only the shallow part that was using Naruto in a sense mind you, not that she is weak and useless. The point is everything that has happened to her, and she still acts like a love struck immature 12 year old like she was at the start of the series did NOTHING GOOD for her character because it shows she was shallow then and she is STILL shallow now for loving a guy only for his looks and that tried to kill everyone else meaningful and precious to her in her life. That makes her look just as unsympathetic as Naruto, and probably worse depending on how you view things.
 
My point is it is the after math that is what damaged both characters beyond repair. Chapter 693 may have started it all indeed, but things would have played out differently and better if they just accepted and viewed Sasuke as he is as a person/character instead of their own "deluded fantasies" that he is their irreplaceable comrade/lover and their lives are ruined without him.

 

Sakura could have moved on from Sasuke and accepted it was Naruto that loved her along and whom she loves in turn because he protected her, encouraged her and severely damaged his emotional well being for her. Whereas Sasuke not only threatened to kill Naruto, but Also her beloved master Tsunade and was going to subjugate all of her other loved ones and comrades including Ino, Sai and her parents. Not to mention that Sasuke WOULD NOT, and I repeat, WOULD NOT be a partner that would give an emotionally healthy relationship. But no, she must love Sasuke and ALWAYS CONTINUE to love Sasuke because he is smoking male hotness *drool, slurp* :zaru:

 

Naruto could accept that while he and Sasuke are similar in their  tragic childhoods, their choices and actions are not and he has to consider all that Sasuke has done for his vengeance and that the latter must be punished for his actions because Naruto can't change what Sasuke has done, nor is Naruto responsible for them.  BUT NO, Naruto has to be a "ninja Jesus" that forgives everyone and everything no matter how much he's been wronged or everyone else has been wronged by one person nor is he accepting redemption must be EARNED and the person must reflect on what they've done and change their damned life choices from thereon out instead of smothering Sasuke and spoiling him "because he's my spiritual brother boyfriend, F***K yeah!!!!!!" :th_yeah:  :twitch:

 

Those alternatives I mentioned would have made both characters look INFINITELY better and show their maturity as characters instead of what we got. Whatever bad writing that Naruto and Sakura have been put through was only made worse by the after math of said bad writing, because no one was giving a damn about it at this point. And that includes Kishi who practically lost all of his passion for it I believe, and was only clinging to the tragic bromance of his protagonist and his "creator's pet". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Edited by Phantom_999, 29 April 2020 - 07:52 PM.

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#51605 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 08 March 2020 - 11:53 AM

Right, so I've been meaning to respond to this for a while. I was just collecting my thoughts. Indeed it was a terrible moment from both Sakura AND Naruto. It un does Sakura's character development for all of the story and while it fall in line with Naruto's character to bend his back over for Sasuke, it makes him down right look unsympathetic that he wasn't angry with Sasuke or even call out what he did to his (actual) best friend (and love of his life). But I digress, we can both agree that IF the ways things did not play out as they did in chapter 699-700 maybe we wouldn't have such a problem with the characters themselves at this point. If Sakura did not show that she was still in love with the guy that tried to kill her and everyone she loved and destroy everything she cherished and show some maturity to MOVE ON FROM HIM then she wouldn't look as bad as her anti-fans made her out to be. If Naruto showed some actual realistic character and not be so accommodating to Sasuke to the point you would be forgiven that they are secret yaoi guys for each other, and accept that Sasuke is doing all of these things of his own free will and treat him as he treated everyone else that took something away from him then he would not look nearly like the douche bag that  he looks like now.
 
All of these problems lie with the fact that Naruto only worries about and sympathizes with those that are similar to him even if they make terrible choices (WILLINGLY, might I add) that hurt others and destroy everything just to fulfill their own whims that he looks like he couldn't give an eff about anyone else. That does not make Naruto look like a truly all loving and all forgiving hero, it makes him look like a hypocritical idiot. Sakura has been proven to be exactly what what her haters paint her out to be. Only the shallow part that was using Naruto in a sense mind you, not that she is weak and useless. The point is everything that has happened to her and she still acts like a love struck immature 12 year old like she was at the start of the series did NOTHING GOOD for her character because it shows she was shallow then and she is STILL shallow now for loving a guy only for his looks and that tried to kill everyone else meaningful and precious to her in her life. That makes her look just as unsympathetic as Naruto probably worse depending on how you view things.
 
My point is it is the after math that is what damaged both characters beyond repair. Chapter 693 may have started it all indeed, but things would have played out differently and better if they just accepted and viewed Sasuke as he is as person/character instead of their own deluded fantasies that he is their  beloved comrade/lover and their lives are ruined without him.
 
Sakura could have moved on from Sasuke and accepted it was Naruto that loved her along because he protected her, encouraged her and severely damaged his emotional well being for her. Whereas Sasuke not only threatened to kill Naruto, but Aso her beloved master Tsunade and was going to subjugate all of her loved ones and comrades including Ino, Sai and her parents. Not to mention that he WOULD NOT, and I repeat WOULD NOT be a partner that would give an emotionally healthy relationship. But no she must love Sasuke and ALWAYS CONTINUE to love Sasuke because he is smoking male hotness *drool, slurp* :zaru:
 
Naruto could accept that while he and Sasuke are similar, their choices and actions are not and he has to consider all that Sasuke has done for his vengeance and that the latter must be punished for his actions because Naruto can't change what Sasuke has done.  BUT NO, Naruto has to be a "ninja Jesus" that forgives everyone and everything no matter how much he's been wronged or everyone else has been wronged by one person nor is he accepting redemption must be EARNED and the person must reflect on what they've done and change their damned life choices from thereon out instead of smothering Sasuke and spoiling him "because he's my spiritual brother!!! F***K yeah!!!" :th_yeah:  :twitch:
 
Those alternatives I mentioned would have made both characters look INFINITELY better and show their maturity as characters instead of what we got. Whatever bad writing that Naruto and Sakura have been put through was only made worse by the after math of said bad writing, because no one was giving a damn about it at this point. And that includes Kishi who practically lost all of his passion for it I believe, and was only clinging to the tragic bromance of his protagonist and his "creator's pet". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

God Naruto is as worse as Goku,
Superman and wonderwoman aren't even that selfish even the dceu versions aren't as bad as Naruto and bare in mind Superman in that version killed

#51606 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 02:18 AM

I will say, it's a shame more of how Naruto is meant to be sympathetic was wasted in the long run if you ask me. X_X It doesn't help and as said, it doesn't help with the bad writing making things worse with its aftermath.



#51607 Nostradamus

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 11:29 PM

No offense... And I'm sorry if this is NOT what you're implying, but I feel like what you are implying is kind of ridiculous. I don't see someone being contracted to produce a creative work and one of the elements of the contract being "Do everything we tell you to do with your creative work!" How on earth is some blanket clause like that going to hold up in court if he breaches it? How are they going to establish what it was they told him to do? And the fact that he didn't do it? Unless they negotiated every single aspect with him in painstaking detail?

 

I am NOT saying that they can't TAKE Kishi's work from him and I never would say that. Because you're right that this has happened many times with other works. But this is not something that I find AT ALL likely in this case because the fact is they needed Kishi's name to be on it. I am not a lawyer... And even if I was, it wouldn't be worth much unless I was a contract lawyer (Though I do know someone who is... He doesn't do the kind of contracts Kishi would be under though)

 

But for what LITTLE it's worth that sounds quite silly/implausible to me. And I hope I've made it clear that I'm not saying this from a place of naivete.

 

They could fire him (again if his contract actually permits this) but I do not think it would have been seen as financially smart for them to do so. They could make things uncomfortable for him. And I do think they did this. His editors, though. Not nefarious businessmen.

I'm sorry, but how is it ridiculous when it's the reality of this world. This is how the world works. Movies, books, games, you name it, it's just how it works. You create something, yes, but it does not belong to you. In almost all situations you work for someone else. It's your name on it, yes, but you are not the one who paid to produce it, to advertise it, to put it on a platform so people can have access to it, payed other workers to help you with it, distribute it all around the world and every single thing that comes with it. That's really who has the power, the ones who paid for it. You might say wait a second the consumers are the ones who paid for it, but that's after the fact and even so most of the time consumers have no power. The only thing they can do is not buy the product. But how it was made, the consumers have almost no power whatsoever. It does happen, but it's very rare.

Ever heard of the term movie by committee, or game by committee or any other media? That's what that is. It's a group of people who invested in the project and made all the decisions on how the project turns out because they think it's the safest possible investment for them. They invest a sum of money and they want it back and more.

 

Anyway neither of us know his contract with Shuiesha, but we do know that he worked for them. He was under their contract, their rules. Yes, sometimes companies, corporations, investment firms (yes those have a lot of power) let the creator/creators some room to do what they want. Like in the case of HBO with the now known as Dumb and Dumber XD with Game of Thrones.

From my understanding HBO was hands off the last season and was willing to give the 2 basically any amount of money to make season 8 however they wished. It ended badly.

 

Or sometimes it's the exact opposite where the people in charge step in. For example my show that I've talked about and said it destroyed me which it did. The creator of the show who was the showrunner and main writer and only reason that show was even great was fired by Amazon Studios during the production of season 2 because he was spending too much money on it. The creator of the show was kicked out of his own project because someone at Amazon Studios decided that the show was getting to expensive to produce and cut the budget to it. It ended really badly. But the point is even though he was the creator of the show and showrunner and main writer of it, none of that mattered because in the end someone above him fired him. Someone who had more power than he did.

Now what should I do? Blame the creator for the disaster that seasons 3 and 4 were when he had nothing to do with them? How can I knowing that the creator was kicked out of his own creation.

 

Again this isn't me defending Kishimoto here, I'm not trying to be his apologist. But from what I've seen and knowing how things work I don't see him being the one responsible for it. Did he had a role in it? Yes. Was he the one that made all the decisions? No.

We don't know his contract and here's the thing even if we somehow get a hold of it, it would take great lawyers to understand it because those contracts are made purposely to not be understandable by the common folk and even most lawyers.

I'm sure somewhere there in the contract is some 47 page contract with 5000 terms and conditions that even his lawyers haven't read.


Edited by Nostradamus, 10 March 2020 - 04:05 AM.

                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#51608 Phantom_999

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 01:45 AM

Basically the only fault with Kishi is just playing "yes man" to popularity instead of writing things the way he wanted it. The fault for how things turned out is because the executives put their own god damned bias into things, thinking that NH fans' opinions are the opinions of all fans since they ALL get "hot and tingly" looking at Hinata Hyuga's "beautiful face and body" :twitch:  :wot:  :zaru:
 
 
JUST. SAYING.


Edited by Phantom_999, 10 March 2020 - 11:26 AM.

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#51609 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 06:50 PM

Basically the only fault with Kishi is just playing "yes man" to popularity instead of writing things the way he wanted it. The fault for how things turned out is because the executives put their own god damned bias into things, thinking that NH fans' opinions are the opinions of all fans since they ALL get "hot and tingly" looking at Hinata Hyuga's "beautiful face and body" :twitch:  :wot:  :zaru:
 
 
JUST. SAYING.


You pretty much nailed it down pat, buddy!

#51610 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 08:57 PM

You how bad Naruto is as a dad he makes Kratos both times he was a dad look better.

#51611 Phantom_999

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Posted 11 March 2020 - 01:43 AM

Not only as a father to Artreus does Kratos look better but his story at redemption and changing ones self is INFINITELY BETTER than Narutos trash with Sasuke and how the Uchiha are sob victims of their own choices.

I bring up only Arteus because Kratos was at least as normal of a father as he could be to Calliope :yes: Atreus is where he is struggling but shows he truly loves his current son and would do anything for him when push comes to shove. Barely see any of that in Brato trash if at all

Edited by Phantom_999, 11 March 2020 - 01:44 AM.

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#51612 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 11 March 2020 - 01:52 AM

Not only as a father to Artreus does Kratos look better but his story at redemption and changing ones self is INFINITELY BETTER than Narutos trash with Sasuke and how the Uchiha are sob victims of their own choices.
I bring up only Arteus because Kratos was at least as normal of a father as he could be to Calliope :yes: Atreus is where he is struggling but shows he truly loves his current son and would do anything for him when push comes to shove. Barely see any of that in Brato trash if at all

Agreed Kratos even showed why revenge is pointless dude destroyed the Greek world and that's a point he tells atreus about not killing a God. Kratos is a more developed character than Sasuke plus dude got tricked into killing his family and suffered for it where Sasuke does how much bad things but Naruto can't let his man crush go and Sasuke gets off Scott free kitten you kishi.
It's saying something where Kratos the biggest kitten rage machine in gaming is more developed and has a better redemption than Naruto story.
Plus Kratos was a good dad to calliope from the brief parts we saw like in chains of Olympus.

#51613 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 11 March 2020 - 04:30 AM

I wonder what the Late Stan Lee would say to Kishi and what would his reaction be.


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#51614 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 11 March 2020 - 01:11 PM

I wonder what the Late Stan Lee would say to Kishi and what would his reaction be.


No good and stan could write Naruto in his sleep.

#51615 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 11 March 2020 - 02:07 PM

to be honest, the panel when Sakura-Chan gave Naruto those sultry eyes when she offered to feed him should have told EVERYONE who didn't like to ignore evidence, everything we needed to know about how she was starting to feel about Naruto. Loving, passionate, caring. 


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#51616 Phantom_999

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Posted 11 March 2020 - 02:13 PM

Offering to feed him by it self in general should have been indicative. :ermm: Who else has she ever done that for besides Sasuke?¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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#51617 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 11 March 2020 - 02:18 PM

Offering to feed him by it self in general should have been indicative. :ermm: Who else has she ever done that for besides Sasuke?¯\_(ツ)_/¯


 

besides, I don't exactly remember her giving Sasuke that look on top of it all. 


Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 11 March 2020 - 02:20 PM.

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#51618 Phantom_999

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Posted 11 March 2020 - 04:58 PM

Or how about at the beginning of the tike skip a.k.a Shippuden when she asked Naruto if she seemed more like a woman? Oh but according to NH Shippers she meant that in a playful “sisterly way”. *Pfft* OKAY, I’ll bite.

 

“Hi big/little brother!! Tell me, do I look more womanly to you now?” *blush*

 

OH YEAH, any sister on this planet that loves her brother in a familial/platonic manner only has asked that to said brother and turns bright red when begging the question to boot. :lmao: :zaru:


Edited by Phantom_999, 11 March 2020 - 10:49 PM.

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#51619 James S Cassidy

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Posted 11 March 2020 - 09:36 PM

Plague of Grips released a new video about Toriyama and Gohan but hits home with Kishimoto so much.


Here are a few defining moments.
"Toriyama can be easily influenced. He infamously didn't think about or write the story until the month he needed to draw it."
Sounds like Kishimoto too.

"Noone knows why, but someone might draw a conclusion that it might be around the time of the phone calls and staff changes that the writing became especially messy."
Boom...Kishimoto.

"krillian falls in love with 18 despite never having a conversation with her. Can't say we blame him, but let's not be coy he just thought she was hot."
Sounds familiar?

"Toriyama, by his own admission, can't write love so he doesn't even try."
Seems like Kishimoto is taking more than just advice from Toriyama.

"Make fun of Naruto: LOTS OF DEATH THREATS. Sexualize Pokemon: UNIVERSAL PRAISE!!!"
This one is an honorable mention...because it is true.



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#51620 Phantom_999

Phantom_999

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Posted 11 March 2020 - 10:34 PM

"krillian falls in love with 18 despite never having a conversation with her. Can't say we blame him, but let's not be coy he just thought she was hot."
Sounds familiar?

 
This actually brings up another double standard that we must all laugh at all things considered.
 
Sakura chases after Saasuke because he's hot? EEW she is such a S***! she's useless! She doesn't deserve Naruto (partially) because of this! 
 
Hinata is sweet caring submissive and is "hot" (in her cultists' minds)? WHY ISN'T NARUTO B**ING HER ALREADY!!!???  :lmao:  :zaru:
 
Really. The hilarity of it all, am I right? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Agreed Kratos even showed why revenge is pointless dude destroyed the Greek world and that's a point he tells atreus about not killing a God. Kratos is a more developed character than Sasuke plus dude got tricked into killing his family and suffered for it where Sasuke does how much bad things but Naruto can't let his man crush go and Sasuke gets off Scott free kitten you kishi.
It's saying something where Kratos the biggest kitten rage machine in gaming is more developed and has a better redemption than Naruto story.
Plus Kratos was a good dad to calliope from the brief parts we saw like in chains of Olympus.

 
yeah that's what I mean Kratos was a good father and had no struggles with Calliope. That's why I don't bring it up

Edited by Phantom_999, 12 March 2020 - 01:34 AM.

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