9679 replies to this topic

[Miss Soupy]

Yeah, against his own desires he started caring about his team. He even cared for Sakura at least on a teammate/comrade level, though his feelings were never romantic. Sasuke, though, is exceedingly selfish, and once Naruto appeared to be getting stronger at a faster rate than he could, he decided to throw his team away.

Sasuke had the capability to be a great friend and teammate. Even a hero. It was what Itachi wanted for him, but he chose a different path.

[merryGOflava]

Yeah, against his own desires he started caring about his team. He even cared for Sakura at least on a teammate/comrade level, though his feelings were never romantic. Sasuke, though, is exceedingly selfish, and once Naruto appeared to be getting stronger at a faster rate than he could, he decided to throw his team away.

Sasuke had the capability to be a great friend and teammate. Even a hero. It was what Itachi wanted for him, but he chose a different path.

yup he got jealous, but sasuke in his mind was supposed to be the best, and being defeated by the worst (naruto) was probably bad for him, it just meant that he would never be able to defeat itachi. though i think if it hadnt been for that cursed mark sasuke would still be in konoha after kakashi's little comrade talk with him. the curse mark made him feel stronger and he wanted immediate strength not actually earning it. i guess him wanting to kill his brother made him impatient, but i dont think that makes him intentionally evil.

[ciardha]

um...im pretty sure, sasuke cared a little..little bit more for sakura than karin.

Not from what is in the manga. Sasuke was even more contemptuous in his attitude toward Sakura than he was Naruto. It's from one of Sasuke's several part 1 insults toward Sakura in part 1 that the one the words used all the time by the Sakura bashers comes from- "useless". Sasuke basically just regarded Sakura as, to use another of his insult phrases from part 1 toward Sakura- "worse than Naruto". If you can call it positive he basically cared in the sense he believed she was the weak girl that didn't have any business being a ninja, but she was on the team and Naruto's influence had turned him away from his goal for a while and made him sort of believe in the team concept.

Contrast this to his attitude toward Karin- he point blank tells her he needs her help in about the most humble I've ever seen him act. He gets a little flustered when she first comes onto him in that scene- instead of the hostility or major contempt he directed toward Ino and Sakura. He doesn't react with hostility to her flirting- never outright rejects those with with anger or major contempt, he tells her they need to work right now. He outright tells her she saved his life and the looks between them in that scene in the manga are the closest I've Sasuke ever give any female to a romantic one. He almost dies saving her life (it actually kind of parallels Naruto's saving Sakura from Gaara). And again, the words he says to Karin about his bond to her is very similar to the words he says to Naruto. Karin and Naruto are the only people he ever developed a deep enough bond to that it swayed him away from his single minded goals.

Not that this had any kind of positive outcomes for Naruto or Karin.... I'm not even a SasukexKarin shipper, just pointing out what's in the manga. Catsi can fill in more, as she is a SasukexKarin shipper.

[narusaku-hime]

i can agree on that, but the way I see it, sasuke treated karin and sakura the same way in the end, trying to kill them because they got in the way

[merryGOflava]

Not from what is in the manga. Sasuke was even more contemptuous in his attitude toward Sakura than he was Naruto. It's from one of Sasuke's several part 1 insults toward Sakura in part 1 that the one the words used all the time by the Sakura bashers comes from- "useless". Sasuke basically just regarded Sakura as, to use another of his insult phrases from part 1 toward Sakura- "worse than Naruto". If you can call it positive he basically cared in the sense he believed she was the weak girl that didn't have any business being a ninja, but she was on the team and Naruto's influence had turned him away from his goal for a while and made him sort of believe in the team concept.

Contrast this to his attitude toward Karin- he point blank tells her he needs her help in about the most humble I've ever seen him act. He gets a little flustered when she first comes onto him in that scene- instead of the hostility or major contempt he directed toward Ino and Sakura. He doesn't react with hostility to her flirting- never outright rejects those with with anger or major contempt, he tells her they need to work right now. He outright tells her she saved his life and the looks between them in that scene in the manga are the closest I've Sasuke ever give any female to a romantic one. He almost dies saving her life (it actually kind of parallels Naruto's saving Sakura from Gaara). And again, the words he says to Karin about his bond to her is very similar to the words he says to Naruto. Karin and Naruto are the only people he ever developed a deep enough bond to that it swayed him away from his single minded goals.

Not that this had any kind of positive outcomes for Naruto or Karin.... I'm not even a SasukexKarin shipper, just pointing out what's in the manga. Catsi can fill in more, as she is a SasukexKarin shipper.

i disagree sasuke was just using karin for her power. with sakura he never hated her, he was just annoyed by her. i mean wouldn't it be annoying to be hovered by a person alot?? sakura was a fangirl, which hurt her relationship with him. if she wasnt it would have been different. not saying i hate part 1 sakura (i thought she was funny) but just cause she liked sasuke doesnt mean she showed it the right way. sasuke did however still thank her, which was actually... nice of him.

[Greed-Sama]

i disagree sasuke was just using karin for her power. with sakura he never hated her, he was just annoyed by her. i mean wouldn't it be annoying to be hovered by a person alot?? sakura was a fangirl, which hurt her relationship with him. if she wasnt it would have been different. not saying i hate part 1 sakura (i thought she was funny) but just cause she liked sasuke doesnt mean she showed it the right way. sasuke did however still thank her, which was actually... nice of him.

And to Sasuke power is the Uchiha's turn on. (And I'm being serious and not in the same manner) I mean look at Orochimaru. Guy bites him, gives him a curse mark and bam! Sasuke is addicted like a baby to candy. Sasuke acknowledged her camaraderie only to a certain degree. I agree with Ciardha on the matter.

Edited by TheOmegaMan, 21 August 2011 - 01:31 AM.

[catsi563]

He wasnt just using her for her power thats a common misconception and one easilly debunked. The dialogue is succinctly clear on that matter. Sasuke tells Suigetsu and I quote "I need her". not her power, not her powers useful, not shes useful.

I NEED HER. very clearly written and intended dialogue from someone who to date has claimed not to need anybody even Suigetus who he freed from his prison and said join me. thats it. he didnt say or fofer Suigetsu anything other then a shot at Zabuza and Kisames Swords and Suigetsu could have gotten those on his own. Sasuke made such a big deal about not needing anyone that he put a hand through Narutos chest to prove it.

Yet here we have him state clearly on more then one occasion I need her, and to Karin herself I need you.

Add in that Ciardhas only wrong about one thing in her post. Karin didnt quite sway Sasuke from his goals of revenge she was willing to support them. But she did try and keep him focused on that revenge, tried to keep him away from Madara and Akatsuki and keep him from losing focus. Unfortunately she wasnt able to and he nose dived into the Darkness.

Beyond that the most important fatc remains that Karin was the one person who for Sasuke made him embrace even if briefly one of the core themes of the Manga which naruto epitomizes so well. gaining greater strength from protecting people close to you. Yes all of team hawk was in trouble at that time, but It was Karins plight above all that gave him the power to control Amateratsu. Juugo practicaly had to drag him bodily from Karinto keep him from ebing consumed by the Black flames.

Simply put theres far more to the Sasuke Karin relationship then people are willing to give credit for. There is a very specific reason she was introduced and I feel strongly well see her again before the end.

[crazyefra]

Well, for a time SK was okay for me even if my hate for Sasuke increased but after the kitten he pulled on her (and Sakura)...He doesn't deserve any romance between himself and any girl (maybe Tamaki, who he at the very least didn't try to kill), they could forgive him but nothing else (after all Sakura''s and Karin's self-respect should be more important right now).

[Anguyen92]

i can agree on that, but the way I see it, sasuke treated karin and sakura the same way in the end, trying to kill them because they got in the way

So, I guess we can conclude that he's never going to be paired with someone in the end, and that even if he gets redeemed, and he's getting desperate for love, probably unlikely, that they are just going to giving him the tongue lashing of a lifetime, hopefully.

[merryGOflava]

im not saying sasuke is perfect romance material, all im saying is sasuke was closer to sakura than he was karin. you cant honestly think that sasuke wouldnt have saved sakura in part 1, if she was in danger cause he has.

sasuke part 2 is different of course hes not gonna consider sakura a comrade now, im not debating against that.

all im saying is

part 1 sasuke was more closer to sakura than
part 2 sasuke was closer to karin.

completely because, sasuke was with sakura longer, and was actually more sane.

[nsfan17]

hey guys, i'm new to the site. this is my all time favorite pairing. but something worries me about it. sakura's treatment of naruto. i mean, i know she has gotten a lot better, but she was kind of shallow about naruto's lack of parents in chapter 3. is it ok for her to be with him with what she was like back then?

[Anguyen92]

^^ Well, I'm afraid I'm going to have to say yes. But hey, at that time, she was just annoyed with Naruto because he was the one that kissed Sasuke, which lead to her saying said stuff that she did not mean and that's when she decided to try to be a little nicer to him which started a beautiful development. But to be fair, part I Sakura was a bit*h, I can't fathom that enough. And besides, its not like Naruto was the best guy personality-wise at that time.

Edited by Anguyen92, 21 August 2011 - 02:48 AM.

[tricksie]

hmmm.... I hesitate to weigh in, but I will anyway....

I think this is a perfect example of Kishimoto writing a character with a shadow of a pairing so the reader can interpret it however h/she pleases. Especially this one: it really goes both ways. "I need her" is specific and vague at the same time. Nice work, Kishi. I didn't read it as Sasuke's feelings toward her, rather I read this as a just a statement about himself. He decided she was useful. It's quite demeaning if you look at it that way. However, if you are inclined to read it romantically, "I need her," then it takes on an entirely different meaning.

The problem I see with this relationship is that neither went into it with anything other than shallow intentions, and neither have had any positive character development because of it. Long term positive change, it could be argued. Sasuke definitely showed some humanity for a little while. And I woud have dismissed it if he hadn't thought of Team 7 while he was saving Team Hebi. But, just as before, he turned away from those positive friendships of his own accord.

Anyway, Karin came into it as a sexual alpha, only interested in Sasuke because he was at the top of the power chain. No different from Sakura or any of the other sycophants Sasuke manages to pile up around him (Orochimaru included). But Sasuke has proved just as shallow as them, by only choosing Karin out of need, out of usefulness. Even though it might be vague, it is still a pale shadow of "I love you" or any other direct statement of love. Even in it's romantic sense, it is still a statement based on only one person's desires. And it's a far cry from the interactions between Naruto and Sakura, which have been open and selfless.

[Miss Soupy]

Not from what is in the manga. Sasuke was even more contemptuous in his attitude toward Sakura than he was Naruto. It's from one of Sasuke's several part 1 insults toward Sakura in part 1 that the one the words used all the time by the Sakura bashers comes from- "useless". Sasuke basically just regarded Sakura as, to use another of his insult phrases from part 1 toward Sakura- "worse than Naruto". If you can call it positive he basically cared in the sense he believed she was the weak girl that didn't have any business being a ninja, but she was on the team and Naruto's influence had turned him away from his goal for a while and made him sort of believe in the team concept.

Eh, there is no evidence of this really. He thought her good enough to be in the chuunin exam, in fact he gave her one compliment during that time (that she was good at recognizing genjutsu). He did say she was on the level of Naruto, or worse, but that was a true statement. She spent all of her time having heart eyes for him, rather than focusing on being a ninja. In fact, that was before Sakura had her awakening moment, so it doesn't really reflect much after she fights Ino :/ Sakura did not have the right priorities at times before then, and Sasuke was blunt enough to tell her. He did not consider her feelings, sure, but that doesn't mean he did not think she was not capable of becoming a ninja.

He wasnt just using her for her power thats a common misconception and one easilly debunked. The dialogue is succinctly clear on that matter. Sasuke tells Suigetsu and I quote "I need her". not her power, not her powers useful, not shes useful.

I NEED HER. very clearly written and intended dialogue from someone who to date has claimed not to need anybody even Suigetus who he freed from his prison and said join me. thats it. he didnt say or fofer Suigetsu anything other then a shot at Zabuza and Kisames Swords and Suigetsu could have gotten those on his own. Sasuke made such a big deal about not needing anyone that he put a hand through Narutos chest to prove it.

Didn't you just sorta, disprove yourself then? If Sasuke didn't say to Suigetsu, 'I need your powers' either, wouldn't that indicate he pretty much implied as much with both, yet did not explicitly state it?

Anyways, he basically told her if she couldn't stop from being held hostage she was just a burden to him. He even desired to kill her off after she was stabbed once. I don't think this indicates he had any higher attachment towards her than he did for Suigetsu and Juugo. His reaction to letting them all go was the same.

Beyond that the most important fatc remains that Karin was the one person who for Sasuke made him embrace even if briefly one of the core themes of the Manga which naruto epitomizes so well. gaining greater strength from protecting people close to you. Yes all of team hawk was in trouble at that time, but It was Karins plight above all that gave him the power to control Amateratsu. Juugo practicaly had to drag him bodily from Karinto keep him from ebing consumed by the Black flames.

It was a combination of Juugo, Suigetsu, and Karin all sacrificing their safety for Sasuke that reminded him of team 7 and made him want to fight back. Karin is simply a reminder of Sakura, of whom he had to protect back when they were a team. This has nothing to do with romance, for either girl, but instead just the faint memories of bonds and to prove he did, at least for a short time, hold team 7 important.

[Greed-Sama]

hey guys, i'm new to the site. this is my all time favorite pairing. but something worries me about it. sakura's treatment of naruto. i mean, i know she has gotten a lot better, but she was kind of shallow about naruto's lack of parents in chapter 3. is it ok for her to be with him with what she was like back then?

Oh dear. That's like saying, just because Sasuke wasn't a complete tool in Part 1 means he shouldn't have to be punished in some form in the future. One mistake, or even several insensitive mistakes is not enough to say whether or not someone deserves someone else. Sakura was a 12 year old teenager. We all do things we regret, but that doesn't mean we don't deserve a good future. Hm?

[Fyuria'sLeo]

im not saying sasuke is perfect romance material, all im saying is sasuke was closer to sakura than he was karin. you cant honestly think that sasuke wouldnt have saved sakura in part 1, if she was in danger cause he has.

sasuke part 2 is different of course hes not gonna consider sakura a comrade now, im not debating against that.

all im saying is

part 1 sasuke was more closer to sakura than
part 2 sasuke was closer to karin.

completely because, sasuke was with sakura longer, and was actually more sane.

Im going to agree with you to a certain extent, He has saved her in the past, but once Naruto started getting better then him he didnt care about the team or anyone else he just wanted to get stronger. I think you giving a little to much credit to Sasuke.

[narusaku-hime]

So, I guess we can conclude that he's never going to be paired with someone in the end, and that even if he gets redeemed, and he's getting desperate for love, probably unlikely, that they are just going to giving him the tongue lashing of a lifetime, hopefully.

Yes that maybe the case, i never really pictured sasuke getting paired and sometimes when he does get paired with someone the thought just seems awkward

Oh dear. That's like saying, just because Sasuke wasn't a complete tool in Part 1 means he shouldn't have to be punished in some form in the future. One mistake, or even several insensitive mistakes is not enough to say whether or not someone deserves someone else. Sakura was a 12 year old teenager. We all do things we regret, but that doesn't mean we don't deserve a good future. Hm?

I guess you right, like they say "were only human", but what you do now and what you did in the past will always have an effect on your future

[Super Boom]

Not from what is in the manga. Sasuke was even more contemptuous in his attitude toward Sakura than he was Naruto. It's from one of Sasuke's several part 1 insults toward Sakura in part 1 that the one the words used all the time by the Sakura bashers comes from- "useless". Sasuke basically just regarded Sakura as, to use another of his insult phrases from part 1 toward Sakura- "worse than Naruto". If you can call it positive he basically cared in the sense he believed she was the weak girl that didn't have any business being a ninja, but she was on the team and Naruto's influence had turned him away from his goal for a while and made him sort of believe in the team concept.

I guess Miss Soupy already said it, but Sasuke also commented on Sakura's abilities in that same chapter. So I wouldn't say he treated her horribly the whole time, I'm certain she had some importance to him. The way I see it, that part of his relationship with Sakura and Karin was the same. He was able to acknowledge their abilities, but that doesn't necessarily entail romantic feelings.

However, one of the aspects of the Sasu/Karin pairing that's always intrigued me is how she addresses him without an honorific. I felt like her feelings were played in a similar fashion to Part I Ino or Sakura's, and yet she doesn't use the "-kun" suffix. Maybe it means something, maybe it doesn't, but I can't help but think that Karin's relationship with Sasuke was supposed to be played in a different light than with Sasu/Saku and Sasu/Ino. But I guess I'm not sure. Either way, I have a feeling Team Hebi/Taka will return to the plot somehow before the end. I'm just not sure how big of a role they'll have.

Well, for a time SK was okay for me even if my hate for Sasuke increased but after the kitten he pulled on her (and Sakura)...He doesn't deserve any romance between himself and any girl (maybe Tamaki, who he at the very least didn't try to kill), they could forgive him but nothing else (after all Sakura''s and Karin's self-respect should be more important right now).

Umm...who's Tamaki? There's not another Sasuke fangirl I'm missing is there?
I'm not sure if you meant Temari, but that pairing would be pretty funny if you ask me. Maybe because I feel like Temari would be the dominant partner, and I'd love to see Sasuke whipped.

On a side note, I don't know how many people watch/watched the English dub, but Sasuke and Temari's VA's (Yuri Lowenthal and Tara Platt) are actually married in real life. Sort of random, I know.

nsfan17: I don't think it really means anything, as pair as the end-pairings go. It's not necessarily the same, but Kushina acted pretty shallow towards Minato during their Academy days (calling him 'girly' and 'unreliable'), and yet they ended up together. At the very least, it seems to me like Kishi prefers dynamic romantic development on the females' sides, rather than static fangirly attraction.

Edited by Boom...Winning, 21 August 2011 - 04:47 AM.

[Anguyen92]

On a side note, I don't know how many people watch/watched the English dub, but Sasuke and Temari's VA's (Yuri Lowenthal and Tara Platt) are actually married in real life. Sort of random, I know.

Wow, to be fair and honest, I really did not see that coming. I mean I kinda expect actors/actress/VA's to get together during/after the show, but I never expect two VA's to be married, interesting stuff there.

[narusaku-hime]

Definitely random