9679 replies to this topic

[elemental anubis]

Sasukarin is just like sasusaku he had no feelings for her he was just using her and she had a fangirlish crush that died when he tried to kill her. I prefer suika over sasukarin because they are like early narusaku only more violent.

[Darth Krypt]

Anyone who likes Sasuke is just superficial. Other than good looks, what is there to like about the guy? Amazing ninja skills? If thats the case villains like Madara and Kabuto also has good skills. Sasuke has never even gave a glimpse of caring about anything other than his revenge. So yeah I agree that Sasuke with any pairing is just ridiculous at this point. Whether that guy will be killed or redeemed is up to Kishi. But knowing the themes of Naruto, him redeemed stands a higher chance which disappoints me. Dieing while being redeemed would satisfy me just abit.

[pharix]

Sasuke is really a bland character :/

[Fyuria'sLeo]

Anyone who likes Sasuke is just superficial. Other than good looks, what is there to like about the guy? Amazing ninja skills? If thats the case villains like Madara and Kabuto also has good skills. Sasuke has never even gave a glimpse of caring about anything other than his revenge. So yeah I agree that Sasuke with any pairing is just ridiculous at this point. Whether that guy will be killed or redeemed is up to Kishi. But knowing the themes of Naruto, him redeemed stands a higher chance which disappoints me. Dieing while being redeemed would satisfy me just abit.

I agree with everything you say here.

[catsi563]

Actually to be fair, Sasuke before Madara got his claws into him. Was incredibly determined. That determination combined with a cool attittude and good looks and skills can make for a combo any woman could get behind.

The issue with Sasuke lay with his inability to let go of the rage just as kakashi warned him. Up to the point where Madara warped him, Karin was in love with the Sasuke that even if he had left Konoha wasnt at war with anyone save his brother and was able to chart his own path.

After Madara though Sasuke embraced his inner demons and let the rage consume him. Karin again shows this through her eyes and chakra senses as we see the fall into darkness. Again this is the Sasuke she is through with and not willing to help.

I still hold that Sasukes redmeption will be a reversal of positions with Naruto. Sasuke will become the dead last, the one seeking recognition, and the one chasing the girl who seems unobtainable. Hell have to rebuild the trust with Karin as surely as Naruto had to build the trust and relationship with Sakura over time.

[Anguyen92]

I still hold that Sasukes redmeption will be a reversal of positions with Naruto. Sasuke will become the dead last, the one seeking recognition, and the one chasing the girl who seems unobtainable. Hell have to rebuild the trust with Karin as surely as Naruto had to build the trust and relationship with Sakura over time.

Hmmmm, I never really thought of it like that. I mean there were hunches, but it is, at this point, that yes Naruto is the person whom all that is on top while Sasuke, who has gone insane, has really lost the respect of everyone and is on rock bottom though Naruto and Sakura still see that happy ending, maybe that cover of them with the watermelons and stuff like that.

Which is why to really solidify narusaku that Sakura, herself, has to see that, yes, she is one of Naruto's biggest inspirators, if not the biggest, just to silence the critics, though that could-be moment may not happen for a while, in terms of chapters and stuff like that.

Edited by Anguyen92, 20 August 2011 - 02:31 AM.

[Miss Soupy]

Actually to be fair, Sasuke before Madara got his claws into him. Was incredibly determined. That determination combined with a cool attittude and good looks and skills can make for a combo any woman could get behind.

The issue with Sasuke lay with his inability to let go of the rage just as kakashi warned him. Up to the point where Madara warped him, Karin was in love with the Sasuke that even if he had left Konoha wasnt at war with anyone save his brother and was able to chart his own path.

He severed the most important bonds he had. I don't care if he wasn't as 'warped' as he is now, he was still choosing the wrong path and was obviously messed up. SS blames it on Orochimaru and Madara all the time, as if it's an excuse for Sasuke's actions. It's not an excuse, he was in control of himself (as far as we know at this point, all mind-control theories aside). Why would any woman want to be with someone who so callously tosses their best friends behind? Karin doesn't seem to mind this, at all, and even seems to ignore the signs until it is (nearly) too late. To me, this shows SK is no better than SS. Karin doesn't understand Sasuke any better than Sakura. Heck, her whole reason for falling for him in the first place was an idolized damsel in distress moment. How is this less shallow than Sakura liking him for his looks and cool personality?

The only person that really understands Sasuke is Naruto.

Technically, SK could happen. But it would destroy what little respect I have for Karin's character if she ever gave Sasuke another chance romantically.

[Nate River]

He severed the most important bonds he had. I don't care if he wasn't as 'warped' as he is now, he was still choosing the wrong path and was obviously messed up. SS blames it on Orochimaru and Madara all the time, as if it's an excuse for Sasuke's actions. It's not an excuse, he was in control of himself (as far as we know at this point, all mind-control theories aside). Why would any woman want to be with someone who so callously tosses their best friends behind? Karin doesn't seem to mind this, at all, and even seems to ignore the signs until it is (nearly) too late. To me, this shows SK is no better than SS. Karin doesn't understand Sasuke any better than Sakura. Heck, her whole reason for falling for him in the first place was an idolized damsel in distress moment. How is this less shallow than Sakura liking him for his looks and cool personality?

The only person that really understands Sasuke is Naruto.

Technically, SK could happen. But it would destroy what little respect I have for Karin's character if she ever gave Sasuke another chance romantically.

Perhaps the biggest point of contention I have had with any fandom in Naruto is Sasuke fans over this point. First it was Itachi, then the cursed seal, then Orochimaru, and now Madara. Sasuke's just a victim. There's an excuse for everything and he bares no responsibility for what he's done. While they share blame for Sasuke being what he is, Sasuke's the one that made the decision to take the path he has and he chose to give into that hatred. In this regard, I think Naruto's a nice contrast. Naruto had every reason to tell the village and its people to go to hell and he didn't. He had a whole bag of excuses he didn't use.

[Anguyen92]

^^ Boy, you think with all the crap, Naruto went through, you think he would go all angsty and probably shoot his mouth over. I've read some fanfictions that has that and for the most part, its not pretty and its ooc. So, its good that he manage to just stay positive and just find some solace in everything in his life, which in turn, makes him a stronger person than if he just whines and makes really irrational excuses which would do more harm than good.

Edited by Anguyen92, 20 August 2011 - 03:34 AM.

[Paptala]

Interesting thoughts on SasuKarin. Most people seems to see it no differently than SasuSaku, which I pretty much believe as well. I do look a bit more favorably on SK, simply because Karin did have her moments of yelling at Sasuke and not just following blindly, and Sasuke did seem to have more respect for her than he did for Sakura (i.e. acknowledging the fact that she saved him verbally to her face, and seeking her out for his team, etc.).

In the end though, he treated her the same as he treated Sakura, in tossing her aside and trying to kill her.

Imo, Sasuke (if he's not redeemed through death), will most likely end up redeemed through wandering as a rogue nin (I can't see Konoha accepting him back, nor Sasuke wanting to return to Konoha). Mostly likely, he won't end up with anyone.

Edited by Paptala, 20 August 2011 - 03:58 AM.

[narusaku-hime]

Hinata/ko seems like cool pairing, i never really thought about it before, but it raises the question "how old is Ko?". He looked older than hinata-not that i'm against a pairing where someone is older than the other- its just i have hope for a kibahina pairing, and everyone can see that kiba has feelings for hinata, one way or another.
As for sasukarin pairing. . . i'm not really into it, maybe SuigetsuKarin pairing would be interesting, that would be what i could call a 'perfect love/hate relationship"
Great opinions on the sasukarin pairing, i agree that sasuke tossed her aside like a peace of trash, but thats sasuke for ya, won't let anything or anyone stand in his way

Edited by narusaku-hime, 20 August 2011 - 04:25 AM.

[Greed-Sama]

its just i have hope for a kibahina pairing, and everyone can see that kiba has feelings for hinata, one way or another.

Feelings of genuine concern but for reasons already mentioned, that doesn't necessarily equate to romantic feelings. I mean Naruto has concerns for Hinata, but that doesn't mean he wants to marry her so she can bare him Byakugan, whiskered shinobi.

[narusaku-hime]

Guess your right, now that i think about, hina's love for naruto is more like admiration, like he's a role model to her. As for kiba's feelings towards hinata r still a mystery, i still hope they end up being together

[catsi563]

Karin doesn't seem to mind this, at all, and even seems to ignore the signs until it is (nearly) too late. To me, this shows SK is no better than SS. Karin doesn't understand Sasuke any better than Sakura.

No ones making excuses for Sasuke he made the wrong choices and per the story will pay for it in the end in ways he wont see coming, I was merely explaining the possible attraction,the element of Danger that draws some women in.

However I challenge that she does see the signs and she is very aware of how dark hes becoming. And no she does not ignore then in point of fact she states very clearly on several occasions how dark hes becoming. She is meant to be our eyes on Sasuke in this regard. to show that in her eyes hes moving further and further away from the light, and it scares her. She very much understands Sasuke in ways even naruto and Sakura not only dont but never could.

Also there is those lost 2 and a half years. We do not Know what the pair did or how they interacted in that time.

As to why she doesnt abandon him untill its too late. Well Ill just point out thats its the same reason a certain pink haired unoichi doesnt abandon A certian blond because of the monster in his belly. And that unwillingness to abandon him cost her a scar on her arm and the heart ache of seeing him killing himself to keep a promise to her.

Loyalty is not easilly thrown aside in this manga and in japanese culture (which this story is based on) Otherwise Naruto would have given up on the village much less Sasuke long ago and gone rogue.

Heck, her whole reason for falling for him in the first place was an idolized damsel in distress moment. How is this less shallow than Sakura liking him for his looks and cool personality

And how is it any different then Kushina falling for Minato after he saved her and complimented her hair? isnt that a shallow reason to like someone? Or isnt Narutos love for Sakura just as shallow at the beginning?

Naruto liked Sakura because he thought she was cute. At the bench scene he finds she is determined like him and thinks that is why he likes her.

Karin thought sasuke was cool and he saved her life (like naruto and minato did ((see a pattern?)) Karin and Sasuke have had 2 years of undetermined time in which to build a relationship and trust.

read some of Twin Enigmas drabbles she nails the interplay between the two brilliantly and even postulates some of what might have occured in the time skip.

[narusaku-hime]

That does make cense, though, the coldness sasuke showed to karin after all she'd done for the guy, and during the battle between sasuke and killer bee, he really did show care for karin and the rest of the team, but in the and care for his team went down like a flat baterry

[ciardha]

That does make cense, though, the coldness sasuke showed to karin after all she'd done for the guy, and during the battle between sasuke and killer bee, he really did show care for karin and the rest of the team, but in the and care for his team went down like a flat baterry

And remember Sasuke's words to Karin after he stabs her when Danzo took her hostage were very similar to his words to Naruto about their bond. Karin and Naruto are the only two people who have ever distracted him from his goal because of the close emotional bond he developed to them. The bond he felt toward Sakura was far more minimal and at best in part 1 he saw her as the weakest member of the team- he saw her as a pathetic girl, not fit to be a ninja. He feels no bond whatsoever to her in part 2. He's cold bloodedly tried to kill her with no hesitation four times in part 2. Interestingly, although he feels nothing toward her but the hate he feels for all Konoha ninja, there is a small measure of respect now- when he acts to kill her, he doesn't underestimate her. He knows she's a talented enough ninja to be a threat to him now. It's now Kakashi that he is most contemptuous toward.

[Miss Soupy]

However I challenge that she does see the signs and she is very aware of how dark hes becoming. And no she does not ignore then in point of fact she states very clearly on several occasions how dark hes becoming. She is meant to be our eyes on Sasuke in this regard. to show that in her eyes hes moving further and further away from the light, and it scares her. She very much understands Sasuke in ways even naruto and Sakura not only dont but never could.

As, I said, she ignored the signs. She ignored the fact that she noticed his chakra changing in order to keep her idolized imagined version of Sasuke alive. Sound familiar? Oh yeah, Sakura did the same thing. Except, one thing Sakura does better is alert Naruto of the problem. At that point, Naruto felt confident it wouldn't be a problem. He was wrong. Karin not only feels Sasuke changing, she witnesses it. She certainly must know Sasuke gave up his previous team, and then she sees him give up on Juugo and Suigetsu. She wanted to keep her fairy tale fantasy of Sasuke. Sasuke never showed any interest in being with her, just like Sakura.

Also there is those lost 2 and a half years. We do not Know what the pair did or how they interacted in that time.

As to why she doesnt abandon him untill its too late. Well Ill just point out thats its the same reason a certain pink haired unoichi doesnt abandon A certian blond because of the monster in his belly. And that unwillingness to abandon him cost her a scar on her arm and the heart ache of seeing him killing himself to keep a promise to her.

Loyalty is not easilly thrown aside in this manga and in japanese culture (which this story is based on) Otherwise Naruto would have given up on the village much less Sasuke long ago and gone rogue.

Sasuke didn't need to do much to receive Karin's loyalty. Give her a smile once, that was all. Superficial, just like Sakura falling for Sasuke based on looks and personality. Don't try and say her loyalty is like Sakura's to Naruto. They are teammates, Sakura has many many good reasons to trust Naruto, and Naruto has not gone around severing all bonds. So really, what excuse does Karin really have? She was in love. Ok, so was Sakura, yet that is the unforgivable pairing? Nah, I think both pairings, well, any pairing with Sasuke, is quite one-side and destroys the character.

Oh and the two years, we have nothing canon-wise to go by, so anything that can be argued is just a guess. Without this being shown in the manga, we have no idea what happened. Karin may have simply continued to try and seduce him without good reason the entire time...

And how is it any different then Kushina falling for Minato after he saved her and complimented her hair? isnt that a shallow reason to like someone? Or isnt Narutos love for Sakura just as shallow at the beginning?

The all important element of changing perception rather than just 'falling' for the other. Both Kushina and Sakura started off with bad opinions of Minato and Naruto, but had their opinions changed by their actions. As far as NS, that is continued development from both sides. MK we know less about, but I would bet a lot there was mutual development from both ends as well. With any Sasuke pairing, this isn't the case. It is one-sided development. And we don't like that, right? It is what we argue is wrong with SS and NH. One-side infatuation/idolization. It can be for the right reasons (NH) or the wrong (SS) but it takes two sides of development to make a true pairing. Only NS has that.

Naruto liked Sakura because he thought she was cute. At the bench scene he finds she is determined like him and thinks that is why he likes her.

Karin thought sasuke was cool and he saved her life (like naruto and minato did ((see a pattern?)) Karin and Sasuke have had 2 years of undetermined time in which to build a relationship and trust. She probably didn't need much more than her infatuation to join him in the first place anyways. It was the driving factor, not a bond built on trust like NS is.

read some of Twin Enigmas drabbles she nails the interplay between the two brilliantly and even postulates some of what might have occured in the time skip.

If Karin truly understood him, I would argue she would have had huge warning signs go off at the change in chakra. She would have done something about it, rather than simply hope for the best. That being said, I don't really understand how you can trust someone who had previously had a team that trusted him, yet he threw away. I would compare it to taking back a boyfriend that cheats. What makes you so special to him? Probably nothing, and its just a fantasy.

I might very well like SK fanfiction, but that's because it is...fan...fiction. You can make a lot of horrible characters and pairings likable if you give them different situations and tweak them a bit. I wrote a KabuSaku once. Never ever ever would support that pairing in reality, but hey, in fanfiction, it was somewhat believable.

@ciardha prove, from Sasuke's side, he had a deep emotional bond with Karin that is equal to Naruto's bond. Show me where Karin and Sasuke went into a white space where they could sense one anothers emotions. It didn't happen.

[merryGOflava]

And remember Sasuke's words to Karin after he stabs her when Danzo took her hostage were very similar to his words to Naruto about their bond. Karin and Naruto are the only two people who have ever distracted him from his goal because of the close emotional bond he developed to them. The bond he felt toward Sakura was far more minimal and at best in part 1 he saw her as the weakest member of the team- he saw her as a pathetic girl, not fit to be a ninja. He feels no bond whatsoever to her in part 2. He's cold bloodedly tried to kill her with no hesitation four times in part 2. Interestingly, although he feels nothing toward her but the hate he feels for all Konoha ninja, there is a small measure of respect now- when he acts to kill her, he doesn't underestimate her. He knows she's a talented enough ninja to be a threat to him now. It's now Kakashi that he is most contemptuous toward.

um...im pretty sure, sasuke cared a little..little bit more for sakura than karin. sasuke wasnt evil to sakura in part 1 (no im not defending sasusaku) but sasuke was just annoyed by sakura's fangirling more than anything. because of that i dont think sasuke could tell when sakura was really concerned about him or just having a fangirl worry moment. sasuke as showed to care about sakura's well being more than once. 1) when the sound ninja attacked her 2) when he defended her against those fodder ninja in the verrrryy first part 3) even though he left her on the bench, he did say thank you and made sure she was okay. *at least he didnt kill her or something*

sasuke wasnt a bad little emo boy in part one. he cared for his teammates. granted it wasnt romantic feelings like narusaku has.

[Fyuria'sLeo]

um...im pretty sure, sasuke cared a little..little bit more for sakura than karin. sasuke wasnt evil to sakura in part 1 (no im not defending sasusaku) but sasuke was just annoyed by sakura's fangirling more than anything. because of that i dont think sasuke could tell when sakura was really concerned about him or just having a fangirl worry moment. sasuke as showed to care about sakura's well being more than once. 1) when the sound ninja attacked her 2) when he defended her against those fodder ninja in the verrrryy first part 3) even though he left her on the bench, he did say thank you and made sure she was okay. *at least he didnt kill her or something*

sasuke wasnt a bad little emo boy in part one. he cared for his teammates. granted it wasnt romantic feelings like narusaku has.

According to Sasuke they were all on the same path but had to go diffrent ways he only cared for them cause he thought they could help him get stronger.

[merryGOflava]

According to Sasuke they were all on the same path but had to go diffrent ways he only cared for them cause he thought they could help him get stronger.

thats not true. sasuke was willing to die for naruto when haku attacked him. he almost threw away everything he wanted, revenge. he didnt care at that moment, he just wanted naruto safe.

sasuke was a friend in part 1 and maybe cocky and to himself at first, later he truly saw them as friends.