54216 replies to this topic

[Darkness]

I know your new here dude but allow me.

 

 

No problem my friend, we are here to debate after all.

You made so many mistskes in your post. First you say that sakura was doing it more for sasuke than for naruto since she loves sssuke and doesnt wanna see him sink any lower.

 

I didn't say anywhere Sakura was doing it more for Sasuke than for naruto. I said "her acts on the summit were as much for Sasuke's sake as they were for Naruto's". She was thinking about them both there and I believe there's no mistake here.

Ill clear it up, but first I wanna point something else that you made a mistake in. You say that sakura hasnt chosen naruto over sasuke just yet, but sai told naruto that sakura chose to confess her love to you as a way of releasing you from the burden she placed on you and CHOOSING YOU OVER SASUKE WAS HER WAY OF RELEASING YOU FROM THE POL. see what you did there? Thats contradicting. You chose sais statement when he said that sakura wants to kill sssuke because she loves him-when sakura just told naruto that shes the ONLY one that knows how she feels, shouldnt that be a sign for you that kishi made her say that on purpose and believe what our heroine is saying since shes honest-when thats wrong, if sais statement about her loving sasuke so much shes willing to kill him, then why didnt she kill him? If her love was so strong for sasuke that she didnt wanna see him sink, then why didnt she kill sssuke? She shouldnt have hesitated, ill tell you ehy, because sakura is the only one who knows whst she feels. And you might say, oh why then do you take sais words when he says other stuff about sakura and naruto, well thats easy, because he actually observes them as the act together and he actually sees sakura being gentle towards naruto and we've seen this as well.

 

Right, let me clear what I meant: Sakura hasn't chosen Naruto romantically over Sasuke yet. Sai's quote "choosing you over Sasuke" is refering to the fake confession in which she claimed to have switched from Sasuke to Naruto. Naruto himself didn't accepted it because it was obviously not true. Also I want to make clear the only thing I consider fake on the confession is the switch to Naruto over Sasuke part. All the othes statements where she explains how she admires and acknowledges Naruto are very true.

 

And why she didn't kill Sasuke? She just couldn't. Look at the flashbacks when she was about to do it, she wasn't able to let it go yet.

Now, you also made a mistake when you said that they were talkimg about sasuke being a criminal. I beg to differ, going by the manga, sai first confronted sakura in the tent and mentioned how naruto got beat up for sasukes sake and wouldnt sell him out, it wasnt about sasuke it was about naruto. Then she told sakura that he cna even see that naruto really loves her, then she got sll emotional and felt bad for causing him pain because of the promise and did it all for narutos sake. How could you so boldly say that sakura doesnt romantically love naruto when in fact throughout the whole manga shes been developing feelings for thr guy snd we've seen many romantic moments between the two not only that but when naruto and sasuke clashed whose name did she call out and who was she concerned for? Naruto. Who was the guy she defended against her so called love the western fand claim? Yeah naruto. Who was the guy she glared at for insulting nsruto? Yeah, sasuke. Who was suspicious about sssuke arriving out of knowhere in thr war? Sakura, but why? She loves him? Tjsts not love, thr girl clearly doesnt love sasuke anymore, but theres definitely something suspicious going on with sakura. And we're yet to find out.. And in fact kishimoto hinself said she was being honest during her confession. If you dont wanna accept that fact then my work here is done.

 

Hold on, I can feel you are starting to rage a little, we are in the same team bro sis so don't worry.

 

You are right saying that Sai first confronted Sakura and that moment was all about Naruto, I completely agree. Note that I didn't say otherwise, I just mentioned how they were talking about Sasuke being a threat which they did afterwards.

 

The bolded part: we all know she has feelings for Naruto and every single sign indicates that's true love. But don't get me wrong, what I mentioned is refering to the fake confession, where she tells Naruto she had forgot about Sasuke and shifted to him. That wasn't true and that's why I don't see it as romantic at all. 

 

The moment she realizes what she really feels, then we can call it romantical love, because then she will know what it is and what she really wants. Until there, it's definetly love and care but she must figure it out first for herself.

 

And who knows, maybe she is already there. At the time of the confession she clearly was not but right now... it's a real possibility. The false smile and her distrust towards Sasuke were great indicators. 

Edited by Darkness, 03 August 2013 - 07:19 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Damn. A lot of discussion going on here. Lol Might as well hop on board.

 

1. Sakuras confession.

 

I personally believe its a mix of both to be honest. I feel as though its not a matter of is she did love Naruto right then and there but if she loved Sasuke. I feel as though she didn't truly tap into her feelings then and there when I look at it. She was more on the surface of it. She recollected what Naruto was to her and the things she brought up could definitely be considered genuine. Hell, I feel as though itwas given her love and affections toward Naruto was indeed a gradual build up from not liking him at all to where she is now. Nothing pike her feelings for Sasuke, Naruto to Sakura and Hinata to Naruto. The ONLY person to actually show signs of confliction is Sakura. The only one to have two obvious love interests is Sakura. What she goes through is what she goes through alone so her confession ain't gonna be like Hinatas or her previous one to Sasuke. She has to show that shes moved on this time around. Naruto wants her completely. 

 

Was she lying to herself? Definitely. I feel she was.

 

She lied about how Sasuke meant nothing to her. Just like Naruto cant just magically get over Sakura, the same applies to her. Its very possible that she had feelings for both. I felt she did. Her feelings for Naruto were always unclear at best but still strong. This is evident throughout all of part 2. Anyway, she was definitely lying to herself. Sai clears this up when he talks about it. its not a negative.its a transition. as someone else pointed out above, if youre a NS fan and you think its all a lie, why do you ship it? That'd make NS an asspull IMO.

 

Just my two cents.

That was the worst thing i ever heard off.

 

Let me also give me two cents.

It starts with Sakura saying Naruto was a fool for loving her, she thought she was a burden to Naruto along with Sasuke like Sai pointed out "Sasuke gives a lot of pain to Naruto but i feel you too do".

She leave under emotional pressure and decide to return Naruto's feelings as a way to make amends for the "bad things" she did to Naruto (form her perspective), she knew it would fail because she knows that Naruto was putting his feelings aside for her, Sakura then decided to make a confession if it fails she would kill Sasuke and make Naruto hate her, because she felt she was unworthy of Naruto and he deserved someome better than her, and killing Sasuke would lift Naruto's burden.

 

All this from her perspective, so for me it's show how much she cares about Naruto that it can say it's love, she lied to Naruto, she felt unworthy of him, she went to kill Sasuke even she knewing she wasnt capable to, she give a chance to Naruto though the confession, she almost died trying to lift Naruto's burden, that's why i ship NS, she went to sacrifice everything including her friendship with Naruto to make him stop suffering, it's a display of love and an heroine situation aswell.

 

It all were lies to Naruto but yet it's not negative for NS in any way.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 August 2013 - 06:53 PM.

[StriderC]

That was the worst thing i ever heard off.

 

Let me also give me two cents.

It starts with Sakura saying Naruto was a fool for loving her, she thought she was a burden to Naruto along with Sasuke like Sai pointed out "Sasuke gives a lot of pain to Naruto but i feel you too do".

She leave under emotional pressure and decide to return Naruto's feelings as a way to make amends for the "bad things" she did to Naruto (form her perspective), she knew it would fail because she knows that Naruto was putting his feelings aside for her, Sakura then decided to make a confession if it fails she would kill Sasuke and make Naruto hate her, because she felt she was unworthy of Naruto and he deserved someome better than her, and killing Sasuke would lift Naruto's burden.

 

All this from her perspective, so for me it's show how much she cares about Naruto that it can say it's love, she lied to Naruto, she felt unworthy of him, she went to kill Sasuke even she knewing she wasnt capable to, she give a chance to Naruto though the confession, she almost died trying to lift Naruto's burden, that's why i ship NS, she went to sacrifice everything including her friendship with Naruto to make him stop suffering.

 

She lied but yet it's not negative for NS in any way.

Lol what was the worst thing you ever heard of? 

[StriderC]

Also, she never even hinted that he deserves someone better... 

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Also, she never even hinted that he deserves someone better... 

, (the worst hing i heard off was the bolded i dont like when people say "if you think it all were lies why do you ship NS it doesnt make sense anyway)

 

I updated my reply but she hinted it by saying "he is a fool for loving someome like me"

So she did view herself as a trash, and decided to make a confession because it was the easiest way to lift Naruto's burden, her main purpose was to lift that, in short she lied to Naruto, but she tried to sacrifice everything just to lift his burden, it's a display of love.

 

Naruto wanted to sacrifice his love for Sakura and Sakura wanted to sacrifice pratically everything including her life and her friendship for his sake.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 August 2013 - 07:00 PM.

[Psychox]

 

It starts with Sakura saying Naruto was a fool for loving her, she thought she was a burden to Naruto along with Sasuke like Sai pointed out "Sasuke gives a lot of pain to Naruto but i feel you too do".

She leave under emotional pressure and decide to return Naruto's feelings as a way to make amends for the "bad things" she did to Naruto (form her perspective), she knew it would fail because she knows that Naruto was putting his feelings aside for her, Sakura then decided to make a confession if it fails she would kill Sasuke and make Naruto hate her, because she felt she was unworthy of Naruto and he deserved someome better than her, and killing Sasuke would lift Naruto's burden.

This is where i have to disagree. She didn't just decided to return his feelings , she was doing it all along ... IMO in part 2 she was the one who did most of the chasing from the moment she saw him back in the village..

Her confession was a way of turning the attention to her , because she told him ''You only think Sasuke, Sasuke, SAsuke''.

 

That she was not over Sasuke back then i am not denying it .
 

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

This is where i have to disagree. She didn't just decided to return his feelings , she was doing it all along ... IMO in part 2 she was the one who did most of the chasing from the moment she saw him back in the village..

Her confession was a way of turning the attention to her , because she told him ''You only think Sasuke, Sasuke, SAsuke''.

 

That she was not over Sasuke back then i am not denying it .
 

I really dont didnt understand what you said on the "part 2" but she did decided on that moment when Sai told her about Naruto's feelings, before that was development to a point where she acknowledged the thing he did for her.
Anyway after Sai's quote, she decided it but also you have to think she was desperate and knew Naruto would refuse it, she was right to say "you only think Sasuke, Sasuke, Sasuke" but yet that was just an excuse, the real intention that she hid is that she missed ot say how much Naruto's wellbeing is important to her, she didnt say "i want you to go back to the village because you're important to me" rather than "you only think about Sasuke, Sasuke, Sasuke and putting yourself in danger you should think about your life", Naruto replied she was just making excuses, if she was 100% sincere she would say that.

[Psychox]

I really dont didnt understand what you said on the "part 2" but she did decided on that moment when Sai told her about Naruto's feelings, before that was development to a point where she acknowledged the thing he did for her.
Anyway after Sai's quote, she decided it but also you have to think she was desperate and knew Naruto would refuse it, she was right to say "you only think Sasuke, Sasuke, Sasuke" but yet that was just an excuse, the real intention that she hid is that she missed ot say how much Naruto's wellbeing is important to her, she didnt say "i want you to go back to the village because you're important to me" rather than "you only think about Sasuke, Sasuke, Sasuke and putting yourself in danger you should think about your life", Naruto replied she was just making excuses, if she was 100% sincere she would say that.

 

She was the one chasing him meaning the most gestures and affection she gave to Naruto than he himself did in part 2(he did but she was the one who took the initiative )

That she was desperate ,yes ,she was pretty much and her choice of words was not exactly correct , but the mistake she did during that confession was that she tried to convince Naruto to give up on Sasuke more than she tried to tell him why she loves him..
The topic was Sasuke that is what i am implying , if she talked about her feelings for him and not Sasuke than NS would have been canon ages ago.. She was sincere , but her heart was not 100% in it , because she was not over Sasuke and that is what makes the confession not 100% truth .

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

 

She was the one chasing him meaning the most gestures and affection she gave to Naruto than he himself did in part 2(he did but she was the one who took the initiative )

That she was desperate ,yes ,she was pretty much and her choice of words was not exactly correct , but the mistake she did during that confession was that she tried to convince Naruto to give up on Sasuke more than she tried to tell him why she loves him..
The topic was Sasuke that is what i am implying , if she talked about her feelings for him and not Sasuke than NS would have been canon ages ago.. She was sincere , but her heart was not 100% in it , because she was not over Sasuke and that is what makes the confession not 100% truth .

Agree partially that was my point her actions and the decision to confess and later kill Sasuke and make Naruto hate her is a display of love, however the confession was 100% a lie.

I mean on her confession to Sasuke she said she would kill for him, would even leave the village and wanted to make him happy and forget about revenge.
Sakura's confession to Naruto.

Naruto tells her "i hate ppl who lies to themselves"

She has a chance to say what was on her heart but she hids it and gives a general explanation saying "You only say Sasuke , Sasuke , Sasuke, you should worry about your life aswell, the akatsuki is after you, you should go back to the village"

If her confession ws meant to be genuine and honest why she gave that answer?

Why she didnt said something like this

- Naruto you're important to me, i dont want you to get hurt because of our promise, i dont want to lose you please let's go back to the village.

this is a genuine gesture and a display that she loves him rater thn yelling at Naruto and gives a general explanation this is why i believe it ws 100% lie, her confession failed on the moment she focused on telling Naruto she didnt love Sasuke anymore rather than saying what she was feeling at that time, even Yamato caught up that.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 August 2013 - 07:26 PM.

[Psychox]

I didn't say anywhere Sakura was doing it more for Sasuke than for naruto. I said "her acts on the summit were as much for Sasuke's sake as they were for Naruto's". She was thinking about them both there and I believe there's no mistake here.

 

 

And why she didn't kill Sasuke? She just couldn't. Look at the flashbacks when she was about to do it, she wasn't able to let it go yet.

 

I will take an ''argument'' from the SS side of the fandom to show you what she meant exactly.. ''Within three chapters Sakura tired to kill Sasuke because she loved him and wanted to save him from darkness to Sakura failed to kill him because she loved him. Either way she loved him.''

 

To save him from darkness was Sai's take on the situation , but then again he didnt witness Sakura and Sasuke's realtionship that was just a pure conjecture on his side ,nothing more. IF she really loved Sasuke she would have killed him ,why? Well, lets take a peek back at part 1. Do you remember when Jiraiya and Naruto went to look for Tsunade? She was so desperate to see DAN and NAwaki that she was willing to cure Orochimaru's hands , but doing so she'd put the leaf at jeopardy and he told her '' I will kill you if you join him'' or something similar. Now that is what wanting to save somebody from darkness , that is my take on the situation.

 

She failed to kill him because her feelings got in the way , but what were they? Maybe she still loved him back then , maybe she couldn't bring herself to do so because of Naruto , because Sasuke is like a brother to him. But then again 540 came along.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I will take an ''argument'' from the SS side of the fandom to show you what she meant exactly.. ''Within three chapters Sakura tired to kill Sasuke because she loved him and wanted to save him from darkness to Sakura failed to kill him because she loved him. Either way she loved him.''

 

To save him from darkness was Sai's take on the situation , but then again he didnt witness Sakura and Sasuke's realtionship that was just a pure conjecture on his side ,nothing more. IF she really loved Sasuke she would have killed him ,why? Well, lets take a peek back at part 1. Do you remember when Jiraiya and Naruto went to look for Tsunade? She was so desperate to see DAN and NAwaki that she was willing to cure Orochimaru's hands , but doing so she'd put the leaf at jeopardy and he told her '' I will kill you if you join him'' or something similar. Now that is what wanting to save somebody from darkness , that is my take on the situation.

 

She failed to kill him because her feelings got in the way , but what were they? Maybe she still loved him back then , maybe she couldn't bring herself to do so because of Naruto , because Sasuke is like a brother to him. But then again 540 came along.

Maybe i feel that she wanted to lift Naruto's burden but failed because she love Sasuke, i believe that Sai's quote saying that she was doing that for Sasuke is a way to mislead Naruto, i mean why Kishi keeps hiding from Naruto the obvious feelings that she cares about Naruto way more than Sasuke.

I mean she was going to die just for trying to lift Naruto's burden.

 

yamato said that on the bridge but Sakura didnt showed this on the confession.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 August 2013 - 07:35 PM.

[Psychox]

Agree partially that was my point her actions and the decision to confess and later kill Sasuke and make Naruto hate her is a display of love, however the confession was 100% a lie.

I mean on her confession to Sasuke she said she would kill for him, would even leave the village and wanted to make him happy and forget about revenge.
Sakura's confession to Naruto.

Naruto tells her "i hate ppl who lies to themselves"

She has a chance to say what was on her heart but she hids it and gives a general explanation saying "You only say Sasuke , Sasuke , Sasuke, you should worry about your life aswell, the akatsuki is after you, you should go back to the village"

If her confession ws meant to be genuine and honest why she gave that answer?

Why she didnt said something like this

- Naruto you're important to me, i dont want you to get hurt because of our promise, i dont want to lose you please let's go back to the village.

this is a genuine gesture and a display that she loves him rater thn yelling at Naruto and gives a general explanation this is why i believe it ws 100% lie, her confession failed on the moment she focused on telling Naruto she didnt love Sasuke anymore rather than saying what she was feeling at that time, even Yamato caught up that.

If i remember correctly she was interrupted before she could say '''From the bottom of my heart i L- and he cut her of saying ''"i hate ppl who lies to themselves".

Again her choice of words was very bad .. that is right.

I believe he hurt her with this phrase that is why she spoke those words , because on her last confession she poured her heart and what was Sasuke's answer? You make me sick/you are annoying. And that is why i think she went on the offensive..

 

[sushi.]

I will take an ''argument'' from the SS side of the fandom to show you what she meant exactly.. ''Within three chapters Sakura tired to kill Sasuke because she loved him and wanted to save him from darkness to Sakura failed to kill him because she loved him. Either way she loved him.''

 

To save him from darkness was Sai's take on the situation , but then again he didnt witness Sakura and Sasuke's realtionship that was just a pure conjecture on his side ,nothing more. IF she really loved Sasuke she would have killed him ,why? Well, lets take a peek back at part 1. Do you remember when Jiraiya and Naruto went to look for Tsunade? She was so desperate to see DAN and NAwaki that she was willing to cure Orochimaru's hands , but doing so she'd put the leaf at jeopardy and he told her '' I will kill you if you join him'' or something similar. Now that is what wanting to save somebody from darkness , that is my take on the situation.

 

She failed to kill him because her feelings got in the way , but what were they? Maybe she still loved him back then , maybe she couldn't bring herself to do so because of Naruto , because Sasuke is like a brother to him. But then again 540 came along.

The big problem here is the flashbacks she got.

 

When she was about to kill Sasuke, she remembered the Team 7 Sasuke, the gloomy and indifferent Sasuke that looks away. This was the usual..daily interaction between Sasuke and Sakura.

j

This is not a relationship you would fight for or want back(one of my biggest reasons as to why I don't ship SS), but it's what kept her from killing him.

[TouKen4Life3g]

It's pretty sad that this is all she can offer in terms of flashback. You would think she would have a good head start but all of them suggested that she first met him when his life turned upside down already. Sadly, nothing has changed. Ok, it did...colder!

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

If i remember correctly she was interrupted before she could say '''From the bottom of my heart i L- and he cut her of saying ''"i hate ppl who lies to themselves".

Again her choice of words was very bad .. that is right.

I believe he hurt her with this phrase that is why she spoke those words , because on her last confession she poured her heart and what was Sasuke's answer? You make me sick/you are annoying. And that is why i think she went on the offensive..

 

I believe the same but if she was really sincere she would say that she deeply cares about Naruto, she didnt said this on the confession she only said why she doesnt care about Sasuke anymore and why she was in love with Naruto, but didnt displayed her deep concern about Naruto which is the feeling that Yamato knows very well.

 

He did hurt her with this phrase but she was guilty of that, she was lying to Naruto and didnt show what was deep on her heart.

 

 

The big problem here is the flashbacks she got.

 

When she was about to kill Sasuke, she remembered the Team 7 Sasuke, the gloomy and indifferent Sasuke that looks away. This was the usual..daily interaction between Sasuke and Sakura.

j

This is not a relationship you would fight for or want back(one of my biggest reasons as to why I don't ship SS), but it's what kept her from killing him.

 

You're right sushi, everytime i see this i only rage because there's no logic on this, it only proves how Sasuke is pratically nothing on her life aside from being her crush, Sasuke only had an influence on her when team 7 as a whole is involved, Sasuke never showed to be an influence(positive) to her as an individual.

it's the same with Rin, it showed Obito being a bigger influence on her life but yet she only had eyes to Kakashi which did nothing, she only opened her eyes after Kakashi telling her about Obito's feelings but he was already dead.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 August 2013 - 07:42 PM.

[Psychox]

Maybe i feel that she wanted to lift Naruto's burden but failed because she love Sasuke, i believe that Sai's quote saying that she was doing that for Sasuke is a way to mislead Naruto, i mean why Kishi keeps hiding from Naruto the obvious feelings that she cares about Naruto way more than Sasuke.

I mean she was going to die just for trying to lift Naruto's burden.

 

yamato said that on the bridge but Sakura didnt showed this on the confession.

 

Dunno , ask kishi ^^..

 

And that is why he made her confront him to make her realize who Sasuke actully is and to understand what is difference in feelings .
The bridge and the kage summit where situations with different level when it comes to comparison.

I think that on the H&E bridge she saw how much Naruto as suffering for Sasuke and he lost himself in the process .. She was afraid that the Naruto she once new and the present were gone and her genuine feelings broke loose .. She was not feeling desperate but used her emotions 100%

But on the Summit heart heart wasn't 100% in it .

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

 

Dunno , ask kishi ^^..

 

And that is why he made her confront him to make her realize who Sasuke actully is and to understand what is difference in feelings .
The bridge and the kage summit where situations with different level when it comes to comparison.

I think that on the H&E bridge she saw how much Naruto as suffering for Sasuke and he lost himself in the process .. She was afraid that the Naruto she once new and the present were gone and her genuine feelings broke loose .. She was not feeling desperate but used her emotions 100%

But on the Summit heart heart wasn't 100% in it .

That's why Yamato knew she was lying, he knew those werent her genuine feelings because he saw that.

[sushi.]

There is a possibility Yamato's words will be brought up again if he dies, and when they find out.

 

Sakura; Yamato-taichou tought me many things, but most of all...

 

It might happen guys!

Edited by sushi., 03 August 2013 - 07:46 PM.

[Psychox]

The big problem here is the flashbacks she got.

 

When she was about to kill Sasuke, she remembered the Team 7 Sasuke, the gloomy and indifferent Sasuke that looks away. This was the usual..daily interaction between Sasuke and Sakura.

j

This is not a relationship you would fight for or want back(one of my biggest reasons as to why I don't ship SS), but it's what kept her from killing him.

 

Yep! I totally agree this doesn't make ANY sense ... Because her happiness came from Team 7 together she even said it herself during her confession to him .

[Psychox]

That's why Yamato knew she was lying, he knew those werent her genuine feelings because he saw that.

 

Yep, Yamato witnessed the 4Tail incarnation and her selfless love for Naruto she put her whole heart into it , but during the confession she used more logic than her heart..

 

 

There is a possibility Yamato's words will be brought up again if he dies, and when they find out.

 

Sakura; Yamato-taichou tought me many things, but most of all...

 

It might happen guys!

 

Jesus , if that happens the whole Naruto fandom will go grazy ^^..

Edited by Psychox, 03 August 2013 - 08:02 PM.