9679 replies to this topic

[Anguyen92]

^^ Wow, with all of these pairings, you give us good fodder to talk about for the next week. Thanks man. Hmmmm, itakarin ehhhh? That could work.

Now, on the matters of narusaku and shikatema in terms of humor, compatibility in sense of humor is always good, because with all these hard times, its always nice to have these light-headed and fun moments. And obviously, narusaku works in that kind of category. I highly doubt that the opposition can argue against that matter, with all due respect. If they do, I would like to see the arguments then.

Edited by anguyen92, 12 August 2011 - 04:58 AM.

[Master Sage]

I always felt that Karin and Suigetsu should be together. Whenever i see them argue i just have that feeling in my heart that those two were made for each other. I think they would make a somewhat nice couple

[Radra]

Nope. Hinata's original purpose was a civilian/villager, similar to Ayame and Teuchi from Ichiraku's and her role was suppose to be far "less" important to the one she is now.

It's right in the first databook that Hinata wasn't even Kishimoto's creation. She was created by his first editor. She wasn't ever Naruto's love interest. Naruto's love interest- once Kishimoto decided to do one as an early suggestion from his first editor, was always Sakura. Kishimoto's first editor told him his story was too limited with just Naruto and Kakashi, that Naruto needed a rival and a love interest- thus Kishimoto created Sasuke and created Sakura.

I have always been hearing rumors about how hinata was never meant to be a ninja in the original story but so far, it has all ended up being exactly what they are. Rumors and assumptions. The only thing I know for sure was that kishimoto's editor suggested that Naruto should have a rival, which led to the creation of sasuke. There is no concrete info on how Hinata was created and there is certainly no proof that hinata was ever meant to be anything other than a shinobi.

http://naruto.wikia....k:Hinata_Hy?ga

ShonenSuki translated the message that came with that hinata image.

A picture drawn in colour by sensei to establish Hinata. Hinata in civilian clothes is a precious object, never before seen in this country.

"I just drew it for fun" I just drew this for fun, yeah (laughs). However, I was going to use it to convey the image of Hinata to my assistants, just in case. I was planning on drawing her in an in-universe style, but... She came out as a completely modern-style girl (laughs).

It seems when some people saw hinata wearing mordern style clothes in that image, they just assumed kishimoto wanted her to be a civilian.

Kishimoto's first editor came up with Hinata as just some village girl- a very minor character. It's not stated if the editor suggested Hinata have a crush on Naruto. I haven't found the source, but I've heard that this same editor also suggested having other young Genin teams for the main characters interact with, and Kishimoto came up with the Chunin Exams arc, and decided to then use his editor's character Hinata as one of the characters.

(This would also explain even moreso his strong irritation at Jump Festa 2009 at the fan letters fawning over Hinata and trashing Sakura- with his absolute insistence that Sakura is the main female character, the heroine, and was completely truthful about her feelings of romantic love for Naruto, and his dismissive comment about Hinata.)

Like I said, there is no evidence that Hinata was suggested by an editor. The only confirmed editor character suggestion was for a rival. As far as we know, all the side characters were created by kishimoto. Unless you can find proof about what you are saying, its all just rumors. You should also know that in part one, Kishimoto never intended sakura to be a heroine. I remember reading that in the early part one kishimoto interviews. I think it was the same interview where Kishimoto said he felt it would be interesting for sakura to be an annoying character or something along those lines.

[catsi563]

rememeber guys just to keep consistency with the debate thread were discussing the merits of NaruSaku vrs Pairing x. not specifically whether the pairing is crack or viable.

still lots of fun duiscuussion so far so lets keep it roling.

back to Sakura this time.

NaruSaku vrs Sakura Kiba

[lupina]

You should also know that in part one, Kishimoto never intended sakura to be a heroine. I remember reading that in the early part one kishimoto interviews. I think it was the same interview where Kishimoto said he felt it would be interesting for sakura to be an annoying character or something along those lines.

Do you mean the Interview in wich Kishimoto said that in the very early times of the Manga Sakura and Lee were meant as a symbol of weaknes or something like that?

[Fyuria'sLeo]

rememeber guys just to keep consistency with the debate thread were discussing the merits of NaruSaku vrs Pairing x. not specifically whether the pairing is crack or viable.

still lots of fun duiscuussion so far so lets keep it roling.

back to Sakura this time.

NaruSaku vrs Sakura Kiba

Kiba is almost exactly like Naruto just more how does Kiba say it *wild* but I dont think Sakura would ever have any romantic feelings for Kiba but this is one of my crack pairings cause Kiba used to be one of my fav character's.

[Radra]

Do you mean the Interview in wich Kishimoto said that in the very early times of the Manga Sakura and Lee were meant as a symbol of weaknes or something like that?

I'm not sure. It was a long time ago.

[Phantom_999]

FINE I'll join......... no one answered me anyway
WELL how's this for a crack pairing!? Naruto and Tayuya from the Sound four! OR NARUTO AND OROCHIMARUKO!!!!!!!

Edited by Phantom_999, 12 August 2011 - 04:18 PM.

[Anguyen92]

So for the record, Orochimaruko is the girl version of orochimaru that was shown in that clip, a couple of pages back right? If so, shudders........, she can have Sasuke though.

Oh right, back to kibasaku, hmmmmm, man, these crack pairings are getting harder to figure out. I mean its easier to figure out naruino and shikasaku, since well they are amongst best friends (Sakura and Ino, Naruto and Shikamaru) and the characteristics makes things easier, but now it's kinda tough. I will have to make a better response at a later time.

Edited by anguyen92, 12 August 2011 - 05:07 PM.

[ciardha]

Like I said, there is no evidence that Hinata was suggested by an editor. The only confirmed editor character suggestion was for a rival. As far as we know, all the side characters were created by kishimoto. Unless you can find proof about what you are saying, its all just rumors.

Take a look at that translation, notice a problem with it? I'll point it out- the book was written from Kishimoto's character notes. Kishimoto is the author. Kishimoto would not write about himself in the third person or call himself sensei..... If you look at the other character drawing notes you'll notice they are written in first person...

You should also know that in part one, Kishimoto never intended sakura to be a heroine. I remember reading that in the early part one kishimoto interviews. I think it was the same interview where Kishimoto said he felt it would be interesting for sakura to be an annoying character or something along those lines.

Er no. What he said was, despite his intentions, early on she did not come across as heroic enough to the readers. Meaning to him she was, it was like what he said about her looks early on- to him she looked like a pretty young girl (just with a broad forehead), but his assistants didn't think so. He admitted looking back at the early drawings that his drawings were not so great. He created Sakura to be like a normal girl (that's where the "annoying" word comes in- like a normal girl- a bit annoying and naive about love and boys. You forgot he also said she was the "most charming" character in the same interview...) and the most realistic of all the characters- she basically was intend to be the reader's window into this world of ninjas. You would see her grow up and become stronger- the main heroine. (As well as Naruto's love interest- something his editor told him to create along with the rival character.)

Her path to heroism would be less showy than Naruto's, more reader identifiable. Being the reader's eye character is also why he hasn't shown her parents. They are just run of the mill, nameless ninja, so the reader can place themselves with her character better. That's Kishimoto's intentions.

I understand and commend him for directing the story that way, but I don't entirely agree with it, because I think it would make her character feel more the main female character and the heroine if he gave her a fleshed out family background. Despite his intentions and love for Sakura's character, most readers see the story through the more showy characters perspectives. I think he learned from readers letters that he would need to show off Sakura's skills more- thus her actions in this arc- clear headed in battle, high intelligence and strategic skills, leadership, and a quick take down of a dangerous enemy. I think she needs a longer, more showy example of her battle skills to get more readers to see her as the main heroine. Kishimoto's given her two major roles in the story- A narrator character and the main heroine. He's focused more intensely on the former than the later.

Honestly, I won't be surprised if at the end of the series, we see Sakura having been the storyteller of this to her and Naruto's children. That this is mostly Naruto's story as told by Sakura. That would kind of be a reflection of Naruto's encounters with his parents. Minato's being short and almost all about dramatic moments, Kushina's being the storyteller about both herself and Minato to her son... And look who's heroics are remembered and celebrated by the village- Minato's, not Kushina's. Mito's heroics in the battle she and Hashirama had with Madara have been forgotten too. Mito was the storyteller of the couple as well.

[Miss Soupy]

FINE I'll join......... no one answered me anyway
WELL how's this for a crack pairing!? Naruto and Tayuya from the Sound four! OR NARUTO AND OROCHIMARUKO!!!!!!!

I answered you about KakaSaku! Can't say much about other Naruto pairings as I don't ship them XD

KibaSaku could be fun, but I think it would be rather explosive in the long run. There wouldn't be much give and take, instead I could just see Sakura exploding at him regularly.

[Radra]

Take a look at that translation, notice a problem with it? I'll point it out- the book was written from Kishimoto's character notes. Kishimoto is the author. Kishimoto would not write about himself in the third person or call himself sensei..... If you look at the other character drawing notes you'll notice they are written in first person...

Lets not nitpick, Ciadha.

The first sentense is probably from someone else(editor or assistant?) but the quote below after it isn't. The picture was drawn by kishimoto which means that the quote is clearly kishimoto talking. This image is from databook one so you can't expect everything to be totally the same as the recent ones. This translation also comes from ShonenSuki. This is someone who has be translating the manga and databooks for a very long time like Hissoburaiken. The chances of him making a bad translation are quite slim.

Er no. What he said was, despite his intentions, early on she did not come across as heroic enough to the readers. Meaning to him she was, it was like what he said about her looks early on- to him she looked like a pretty young girl (just with a broad forehead), but his assistants didn't think so. He admitted looking back at the early drawings that his drawings were not so great. He created Sakura to be like a normal girl (that's where the "annoying" word comes in- like a normal girl- a bit annoying and naive about love and boys. You forgot he also said she was the "most charming" character in the same interview...) and the most realistic of all the characters- she basically was intend to be the reader's window into this world of ninjas. You would see her grow up and become stronger- the main heroine. (As well as Naruto's love interest- something his editor told him to create along with the rival character.)

Her path to heroism would be less showy than Naruto's, more reader identifiable. Being the reader's eye character is also why he hasn't shown her parents. They are just run of the mill, nameless ninja, so the reader can place themselves with her character better. That's Kishimoto's intentions.

@ the bolded: This is where you are wrong. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but It took a while and I finally found the interview. It came from the first artbook. The interview was translated completely by pazuzu.

- Next, focusing on Sakura. What do you see as the image of a heroine?

K: My idea of a heroine isn't very clear. Because of that, even though I tried
to depict a heroine, it didn't end up like one. "Someone unable to understand
the workings of men..." is the feeling I ended up with.

- Maybe that's what attracts people to Sakura?

K: Maybe. I didn't really make Sakura out to be a "heroine", my point of view
had been that if a somewhat dislikeable character was introduced, I wondered if
it would become interesting... I created Naruto and created Sasuke, the last one
was Sakura. But I think she's a cheerful, good character. The type that wants to
be leader and is energetic and, in front of Sasuke, childlike. That is what I
decided was the way of the keyword Sakura.

Right from the get go, Kishimoto never really saw sakura as a heroine. As you can see, It seems kishimoto at first was trying to depict a herione and in the end the feeling he portrayed was the "someone unable to understand men". He also intentionally made sakura to be dislikeable as he apparently thought that would be interesting.

All that accomplished was the huge sakura bashings we see all over the place. I have always blamed the huge sakura hate on kishimoto.

You guys can go to this link for the full interview here

Edited by Radra, 12 August 2011 - 11:39 PM.

[ciardha]

Right from the get go, Kishimoto never really saw sakura as a heroine. As you can see, It seems kishimoto at first was trying to depict a herione and in the end the feeling he portrayed was the "someone unable to understand men". He also intentionally made sakura to be dislikeable as he apparently thought that would be interesting.

All that accomplished was the huge sakura bashings we see all over the place. I have always blamed the huge sakura hate on kishimoto.

You guys can go to this link for the full interview here

Too negatively slanted a translation. From the official English translation by Viz, you can still buy the book and get a far more accurate translation:

Q- Next is Sakura. What is your ideal heroine like?

Kishimoto- I don't have a definite image of what a heroine should be, so even when I try to draw one, she doesn't turn out like a typical heroine. She just looks like a girl who can't understand men. That's the way it usually goes."
******************************************************************
So yes, even fairly early on Sakura was the heroine as well as Naruto's love interest. His initial thought of her character was more just as the main female character- the tsundere love interest of Naruto (as his editor suggested Naruto have a rival and a love interest), see below for the rest of the official translation, but she changed very quickly to the heroine- his version, which he admits above is not typical.
********************************************************************
Q- Is that what makes Sakura charming?

K- Probably. I didn't create Sakura to serve to serve as the story's heroine, I suppose. I just thought it would be interesting to have a character who was slightly irritating, but had a good head on her shoulders. I created Naruto first, then Sasuke, and finally Sakura. But she's a great character. She's cheerful, she's a leader type.

****************************************************

Note the qualifier in his musings about his initial thoughts about Sakura- meaning he's not certain if he ever didn't consider her the story's heroine. Note as well how much Kishimoto shows his love for the character, and how the negative quality was not some big bad thing, but a very minor part of her character meant to balance out all her strengths. Just as Naruto being dumb and loudmouthed balances out his positives.

Sasuke as the rival was the character created with the most personality negatives, so Kishimoto had to make his skill level high to balance that out. Naruto and Sakura grow up and improve in both skills and personal interactions, Sasuke improves in skills but his personality deteriorates.

Edited by ciardha, 13 August 2011 - 12:22 AM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

I always felt that Karin and Suigetsu should be together. Whenever i see them argue i just have that feeling in my heart that those two were made for each other. I think they would make a somewhat nice couple

Agreed 100%.

[Radra]

^Thanks for posting the Viz translation. It is definitely less negative. I always prefered the official translations. It puts me at ease a bit.

I still think it wasn't the best idea to make sakura "irritating". That is the thing that put her off so many people.

Also, I know kishimoto's editor suggest naruto have a rival, but I never heard he specifically suggested naruto have a love interest. Do you you have a direct confirmation of the love interest thing? That would be good news if you do.

[Phantom_999]

So for the record, Orochimaruko is the girl version of orochimaru that was shown in that clip, a couple of pages back right? If so, shudders........, she can have Sasuke though.

Oh right, back to kibasaku, hmmmmm, man, these crack pairings are getting harder to figure out. I mean its easier to figure out naruino and shikasaku, since well they are amongst best friends (Sakura and Ino, Naruto and Shikamaru) and the characteristics makes things easier, but now it's kinda tough. I will have to make a better response at a later time.

Crack pairings don't have to MAKE SENSE that's WHY they're called crack pairings

Take a look at that translation, notice a problem with it? I'll point it out- the book was written from Kishimoto's character notes. Kishimoto is the author. Kishimoto would not write about himself in the third person or call himself sensei..... If you look at the other character drawing notes you'll notice they are written in first person...



Er no. What he said was, despite his intentions, early on she did not come across as heroic enough to the readers. Meaning to him she was, it was like what he said about her looks early on- to him she looked like a pretty young girl (just with a broad forehead), but his assistants didn't think so. He admitted looking back at the early drawings that his drawings were not so great. He created Sakura to be like a normal girl (that's where the "annoying" word comes in- like a normal girl- a bit annoying and naive about love and boys. You forgot he also said she was the "most charming" character in the same interview...) and the most realistic of all the characters- she basically was intend to be the reader's window into this world of ninjas. You would see her grow up and become stronger- the main heroine. (As well as Naruto's love interest- something his editor told him to create along with the rival character.)

Her path to heroism would be less showy than Naruto's, more reader identifiable. Being the reader's eye character is also why he hasn't shown her parents. They are just run of the mill, nameless ninja, so the reader can place themselves with her character better. That's Kishimoto's intentions.

I understand and commend him for directing the story that way, but I don't entirely agree with it, because I think it would make her character feel more the main female character and the heroine if he gave her a fleshed out family background. Despite his intentions and love for Sakura's character, most readers see the story through the more showy characters perspectives. I think he learned from readers letters that he would need to show off Sakura's skills more- thus her actions in this arc- clear headed in battle, high intelligence and strategic skills, leadership, and a quick take down of a dangerous enemy. I think she needs a longer, more showy example of her battle skills to get more readers to see her as the main heroine. Kishimoto's given her two major roles in the story- A narrator character and the main heroine. He's focused more intensely on the former than the later.

Honestly, I won't be surprised if at the end of the series, we see Sakura having been the storyteller of this to her and Naruto's children. That this is mostly Naruto's story as told by Sakura. That would kind of be a reflection of Naruto's encounters with his parents. Minato's being short and almost all about dramatic moments, Kushina's being the storyteller about both herself and Minato to her son... And look who's heroics are remembered and celebrated by the village- Minato's, not Kushina's. Mito's heroics in the battle she and Hashirama had with Madara have been forgotten too. Mito was the storyteller of the couple as well.

OH NO He said that it did not occur to him to make Sakura the heroine at first it was a sort of changed decision since she was really popular in the manga during the first few chapters

I answered you about KakaSaku! Can't say much about other Naruto pairings as I don't ship them XD

KibaSaku could be fun, but I think it would be rather explosive in the long run. There wouldn't be much give and take, instead I could just see Sakura exploding at him regularly.

I know thanks but I meant on my why don't you think NH would work comment I gave MY reasons

Agreed 100%.

Well don't they remind you of NaruSaku in Part I?

Edited by Phantom_999, 28 August 2011 - 05:42 PM.

[ciardha]

^Thanks for posting the Viz translation. It is definitely less negative. I always prefered the official translations. It puts me at ease a bit.

I still think it wasn't the best idea to make sakura "irritating". That is the thing that put her off so many people.

Also, I know kishimoto's editor suggest naruto have a rival, but I never heard he specifically suggested naruto have a love interest. Do you you have a direct confirmation of the love interest thing? That would be good news if you do.

He said it in more than one of of the early interviews, I'm surprised that you hadn't heard it. We even had a thread a while back here talking about that.

Kishimoto said just "mildly irritating" and he commented in other early interviews how her personality was based on that of a normal girl- meaning his perspective looking back on his early youth (when he was around 12 or so) he found the girls his age "mildly irritating"

That's at the age (back when Kishimoto was growing up, and true for my generation in the west too- right around 7th grade, boys and girls started having romantic relationships, although real dating was still a few years later... As Kishimoto shows girls can crush on boys years before that- I remember thinking a certain boy was cute when I was in kindergarten, and chasing a cute boy around the classroom on the first day of first grade- heh. But it was a very innocent thing, as far as my mind went then was closed mouth kisses. Even at almost 11- when I kissed my first boy, I was still just thinking no further than kisses- and closed mouth kisses at that. It wasn't until I was around 13 that started thinking about more sexy stuff, and even then it was pretty vague and naive.) around 10-12- boys are just starting to see girls romantically not as completely "irritating", just "mildly irritating".

From what I've heard in the media kids in the west go through those stages younger than in my generation in the west and Kishimoto's in Japan, so you all may not see it the same way a person now in their later 30's and older would. This may also be a contributing factor to the much more negative view of Sakura amongst the fandom outside of Japan.

Edited by ciardha, 13 August 2011 - 01:41 AM.

[rikakim94]

A bit out of topic but can it also mean that kishi had a bad romantic life which may lead into why he may be a bit bad at developing romance?

[Strangelove]

A bit out of topic but can it also mean that kishi had a bad romantic life which may lead into why he may be a bit bad at developing romance?

he is the successful author of Naruto...believe me he gets laid constantly.

Maybe...but who knows.

[merryGOflava]

i always thought sakura was "bratty" on purpose in the beginning cause she was fangirly at first and only had interest about sasuke. the bratty type of character never bothers me, cause i know its for a reason.

I like it when a character is "annoying" at first then learns to get stronger, and tries to get over their short-comings

sakura is the type of character that needs development, so thats why kishi probably made her like that at first.

i mean look at sakura part 2, she seems like a heroine to me and is over most of her annoying traits (some say her being loud is annoying, but i think its funny)