749 replies to this topic

[BlackBird19]

Statement: Out of all Uchiha, Madara is the biggest asspull character.

Agree or disagree?

While I could argue for Itachi being such a character, I'll have to agree.

 

Since it was Madara who lived to a ridiculously old age, devising some unbelievable master plan. Is then resurrected as an edo tensei, then made living and finally received such a power up that he had to be killed off via deus ex machina in the form of a horribly written, supposed final villain because he was too powerful for our heroes to beat. Yeah, his character was nothing but an asspull.

[MangaReader]

Statement: Out of all Uchiha, Madara is the biggest asspull character.

Agree or disagree?

Biggest Asspull or biggest waste of a character? 

 

For the sake of answering I'll agree just because of how broken he was, but I wouldn't call it an asspull, his defeat was an asspull. No, Madara was just a crazy attempt at adding suspense, making us wonder how Naruto can even beat a guy who seems to have all the answers when he's close to failing. No the killer was the fact Kishimoto himself flat out stated he had no clue how to beat Madara. His ultimate decision was lackluster because Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura really didn't find it horribly difficult to defeat Kaguya. In fact, I'm still wondering what the heck her true connection to Zetsu was and just how the kitten she was "living" this whole time. 

[Nate River]

Oh, Madara is a walking asspull and completely broken to boot.

Where to begin? A plan that depended on a guy to revive him? What was plan B if Obito said screw you (which he planned to do the whole time) and declined to revive him? Obito didn't really need him. What luck Kabuto saves him the trouble! But it's Edo Tensei so he still needs a way to revive himself lest the technique be dispelled? Is he just so awesome he can by pass the limitations of a technique he didn't know and wasn't his? Who develops a technique to revive via Edo Tensei, except someone who explicitly plans to come back that way or plans to use it to revive someone they really care about (speaking of that, why did no else try that---the only who knows it is Madara, WTF?). Did he prep for in the off chance it might happen though there is no evidence Obito knew the technique either?

The war arc is such a mess.

[catsi563]

To be fair Madara was around though injured during Tobiramas time, and It was Tobirama who developed the Edo Tensei in the first place. So its entirely plausible for him to have some insider knowledge of the technique

[Nate River]

To be fair Madara was around though injured during Tobiramas time, and It was Tobirama who developed the Edo Tensei in the first place. So its entirely plausible for him to have some insider knowledge of the technique

There is no evidence of it though. Even when Madara escapes it, nothing. It's not impossible he knows it, but it's not obvious that he would or would desire to develop that escape hatch.

[rocci]

Madara is not an asspull as a character.
His asspull come from the final villain status.
Kishi need to make him strong so he can answer all threat direct to him with little to no buildup.

[Nostradamus]

Madara is not an asspull as a character.
His asspull come from the final villain status.
Kishi need to make him strong so he can answer all threat direct to him with little to no buildup.

Wait, what?

Make me understand. As long as he's or was the final villain, then it's not consider an asspull? So it's acceptable?

Edited by Nostradamus, 19 March 2016 - 06:32 PM.

[Namikaze Clan]

I'd argue that Kaguya was a bigger asspull than Madara. At least Madara had some foreshadowing and buildup through flashbacks.

[Yyubie]

The problem with the villain in Narutoverse is the PUPPET MASTER thingy is too much/long to the point it doesn't make sense anymore.

First we got akatsuki being controlled by pein aka Nagato, then it was revealed Nagato and akatsuki is being controlled by Tobi aka Obito, then Obito is being controlled by Madara, then Madara being controlled by black zetsu, and black zetsu is sons of Kaguya. I don't know who came with the idea of "Hey theres bigger villain behind him, again and again and again". Then comes the DLC aka TL gaiden and boruto movie = Toneri , Bald sharingan guy+uchiha shin, and momoshiki. The latter the villains appear ... the less logical explanation behind it and the more question got breed.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, I have to agree. While he was hinted and all, would it kill him to give him everything without everything being a twist alas asspull?

Edo Madara gets the same boost as his old self with Rinnengan and all (still don't know how that even works), knows how to unseal himself from control because he just know (I wasn't even aware that you can do to make yourself a master), Susanoo with no eyes (what else...), using Kamui with breeze and no consequences (whatever happen to "can't use with Juubi?"), summoning Juubi from Obito's body even though he couldn't do with Kyuubi, so what is the different here, Limbo (no idea how he knows how it works), and more.

Yeah...

[TouKen4Life3g]

Statement: If you have NaruHina canon but not SasuSaku, with them just being friends, it would be less violence in fans' reactions as well as "lessen" the damage to the overall series.

Agree or disagree?

Edited by TouKen4Life3g, 21 March 2016 - 10:22 PM.

[Yyubie]

Statement: If you have NaruHina canon but not SasuSaku, with them just being friends, it would be less violence in fans' reactions as well as "lessen" the damage to the overall series.

Agree or disagree?

Disagree

 

NH itself was a disaster pairing with no logical explanation behind it, one sided love ... Naruto never love Hinata and he fall in love with her in just like 3 days?? because Sakura push him away with rivalry thing?? and with the help of genjutsu and that DAMN RED TENTACLE SCARF??.

 

For me NH and SS is just the same, DO NOT look at them base on SS is abusive and violent while NH is not. THEY ARE THE SAME.

[Bail o' Lies]

Statement: If you have NaruHina canon but not SasuSaku, with them just being friends, it would be less violence in fans' reactions as well as "lessen" the damage to the overall series.

Agree or disagree?

No. Once that assistant on twitter pissed of the fans with their comments. There was only one direction the reactions was going to be from the fans. Especially after what they did with The Last both the refused refunds and the story itself, and kishi's contradictory interviews. No ss would have only saved Sakura's character. That's it. The morals of the story, the plot, and almost all the character and their arc are all damaged by the ending.

[NeonRanger]

Disagree.

 

Even with SS canon, Hinata already got everything and more for a secondary character. Sakura was the dropped heroine. SS not happening would only made it obvious that this is all for Hinata, in the romantic storyline. Plus there are other reasons why people were sad about the ending. 

 

By the time 693 happened, the only romantic storyline conclusion was an open ending. He kittened up every pairing, including NS, to a points where we had doubts about our own pairing even after good chapters because he would give something to other shippers as well. I can understand some failed tricks here and there, but near the end of the manga, 693, a lot of us were hoping that Sakura would realize her love for Naruto while she was knocked out by Sasuke. About a year before 693, I've seen a lot of ideas of Sakura joining Naruto on their battle to save Sasuke. Over the years and months before the ending, a lot of us lowered our expectations of an NS conclusion. 

 

It reached a point where I can only see an open ending. Even with an NS ending, I'm still left with 615 and 693 to leave a small but sour taste in my mouth. In part 2, the first half was all about NS. But since the Pain arc, it kinda became a free for all.

 

Kishi just kittened up the romantic plot to where an open ending made more sense. NH wouldn't change anything at all.

Edited by NeonRanger, 22 March 2016 - 10:47 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I will admit, I did got selfish of just wanting it to be canon even after 693. It was a serious problem but I just want it to be over with and even though it wouldn't be as satisfying as people envisioned, at least in my view. It was like a real nail in the coffin but it was already frustrating on how much the series kept going circle and kept changing some of the factual events with these characters. They pretty much saying that they're all status quo.

So I will have to disagree on that. I guess it will be less damaging or more like less out roar with SasuSaku not being canon since that pairing pretty much said that obsession prevails with all damages and scars, none being comical, but it still hurts the overall experience and it's one thing I hate is denying the experience. I always prefer no pairing over pairing with another that either makes no sense or just can't hold it. No matter what, it will always be, in my opinion, a consolation prize.

[Bail o' Lies]

The problem with chapter 693. Is that it may have destroyed Sakura for some people. But it should have destroyed any possibility of SS happening. Sakura poured her heart out begging them not to fight. Since to her there was no reason to. And once again bringing up her feelings to Sasuke. Sasuke had an illusion that knocked her out by showing her being stabbed in the heart while he called her an annoyance. After that he went on a little rant to kakashi on. How he doesn't have feeling for Sakura. Does't even understand what she see in him and think she lives in a fantasy world because of it. Even if NS didn't happen SS shouldn't happen after that. The reason it did was it was in the Last. So as far as I'm concern that chapter was kishi just laying it out why this pairing won't work and asking his editors to let him decided his own ending. They said no. And he and the plot was stuck with it.

 

Honestly, I think nH, SS, Sai/Ino, and Kakashi as hokage was all decided because they put it in the last.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 23 March 2016 - 01:38 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

The problem with chapter 693. Is that it may have destroyed Sakura for some people. But it should have destroyed any possibility of SS happening. Sakura poured her heart out begging them not to fight. Since to her there was no reason to. And once again bringing up her feelings to Sasuke. Sasuke had an illusion that knocked her out by showing her being stabbed in the heart while he called her an annoyance. After that he went on a little rant to kakashi on. How he doesn't have feeling for Sakura. Does't even understand what she see in him and think she lives in a fantasy world because of it. Even if NS didn't happen SS shouldn't happen after that. The reason it did was it was in the Last. So as far as I'm concern that chapter was kishi just laying it out why this pairing won't work and asking his editors to let him decided his own ending. They said no. And he and the plot was stuck with it.
 
Honestly, I think nH, SS, Sai/Ino, and Kakashi as hokage was all decided because they put it in the last.

There's many catering to the fans route they put out there, including Kakashi being Hokage. I know he was said to be one one day, but the way it did it was more like of a "I want the fans to be pleased." Have him being Hokage during a crucial time, it would be forgiven. Other than that, it just feel tacked on and unsatisfying with its developments that don't really demand it.

Pairings, especially the ones that weren't developed at all, are there to have new generation to even exist. If it ended completely, no sequel or anything, it would be one or two pairings confirmed and the rest is up in the air. That or no pairing at all. However, it's clear that they need kids for next generation, one in which must be related to the old generation, the one we grew up with. Therefore, many of them were just paired, even if some didn't need to like Gaara, just to have a sequel. It's forced and unnecessary.

[Bail o' Lies]

There's many catering to the fans route they put out there, including Kakashi being Hokage. I know he was said to be one one day, but the way it did it was more like of a "I want the fans to be pleased." Have him being Hokage during a crucial time, it would be forgiven. Other than that, it just feel tacked on and unsatisfying with its developments that don't really demand it.

Pairings, especially the ones that weren't developed at all, are there to have new generation to even exist. If it ended completely, no sequel or anything, it would be one or two pairings confirmed and the rest is up in the air. That or no pairing at all. However, it's clear that they need kids for next generation, one in which must be related to the old generation, the one we grew up with. Therefore, many of them were just paired, even if some didn't need to like Gaara, just to have a sequel. It's forced and unnecessary.

Pretty much. But even then. What was the point of Kakashi becoming the hokage by that point? And it would have been better after chapter 693 for Sasuke to end up with Karin. He admitted paired up Choji with karui(?) so they could have the second ino shika cho generation. But still the last was well underway by (and should have been finished) time he even got to chapter 693 or obito's final death. Honestly, it felt like Kishi had obito tell kiakshi to become hokage because he had learned that the people working on the last had made him hokage there (because the writer and that director probably thought it would be cool if kakashi was hokage for hinata's big movie). So he just had to work that in by the last minute using obito.

 

 

...Out of curiosity and double checking how do the Japanese feel about Bolt right now and this up coming one shot?

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 23 March 2016 - 02:09 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Pretty much. But even then. What was the point of Kakashi becoming the hokage by that point? And it would have been better after chapter 693 for Sasuke to end up with Karin. He admitted paired up Choji with karui(?) so they could have the second ino shika cho generation. But still the last was well underway by (and should have been finished) time he even got to chapter 693 or obito's final death. Honestly, it felt like Kishi had obito tell kiakshi to become hokage because he had learned that the people working on the last had made him hokage there (because the writer and that director probably thought it would be cool if kakashi was hokage for hinata's big movie). So he just had to work that in by the last minute using obito.
 
 
...Out of curiosity and double checking how do the Japanese feel about Bolt right now and this up coming one shot?

I lost track so I don't know. I only remember with one moment of "if we stop watching, it won't come."

[rocci]

Wait, what?
Make me understand. As long as he's or was the final villain, then it's not consider an asspull? So it's acceptable?

His character itself is not asspull. He already forshadow from part 1.
What make him as an asspull is the potrayal of final villain.
Like what touken said about the ability to breaK edo tensei and all that thing.

Having op final villain in sohen manga is nothing new (ex: aizen), but to not properly write it is another thing.