749 replies to this topic

[Chatte]

This is just a random question. Why did Katsuyu say that it could no longer heal anyone through dispersed pieces? To our knowledge, it doesn't have any limitations in the amount of times that it can divide itself. From what I can tell, the slug that's still remaining is fairly large in size. What is preventing it from dividing even further so remote healing can be used? 

The context told us that Sakura thought about the parts that were already attached to the Alliance. But Katsuyu explained that she, being attached to those Shinobi, got her chakra drained as well so her parts died along with the shinobis that she was attached on.

Edited by Chatte, 19 September 2013 - 01:18 PM.

[Phantom_999]

Cause it it divides it's chakra up when it splits like Kage Bunshin, and so has almost none left? Maybe? 

[Dkey]

This is just a random question. Why did Katsuyu say that it could no longer heal anyone through dispersed pieces? To our knowledge, it doesn't have any limitations in the amount of times that it can divide itself. From what I can tell, the slug that's still remaining is fairly large in size. What is preventing it from dividing even further so remote healing can be used? 

I was wondering that too.

either she cant right now because she needs to recover the chakra loss or she needs to be resummoned.

I think this will be covered in the future chapters.

[Nate River]

Very good thought - like maybe Sakura's near death will be another way Naruto surpasses the previous generations, in that he's able to save Sakura where Minato and Obito failed to save their loved ones. (Tsunade too.)

Over the years I've developed a bit of cynisism over the pairing wars. Conseqeuntly, I think it'd be kinda of funny to off some combination of Sakura/Naruto/Hinata/Sasuke (doesn't matter which) as a giant F-you to the fandoms. Whoops, they died....nobody gets anybody. Oh well.

The story construction alone would prevent me from doing this (I do care about that after all) if I were Kishimoto, but watching the pairings wars would at least creation a strong temptation to kill them off and say...oh, well sorry about that.
 

I can't disagree with your assessment. We've talked about this before. Why Kishimoto decided to write the treatment of Sasuke's decline in this way doesn't make a lot of sense, considering he had better options -- at least in my opinion.

I think it was always a case of wanting Sasuke to fall into the darkness and eventually come out of it, but doing so is messy if you plan to make him good again, especially if the redemption itself is at the end. It leaves you less time to sell it the audience and the rest of the cast. The worse Sasuke is the harder it is for people to swallow. This is why she lives.

I strongly believe his involvement in the war arc is to help set up everyone else's redemption. Even if his motives aren't pure, he's still helping them when they need it.

Karin's treatment, I think, is a consequence of his writing style. He has a habit of creating characters to accomplish a specific purpose and then pushing them off to the background when they have done that. Karin was used to demonstrate his descent, but once done, there was nothing left for her, so he put he shoved her back into the same role she was prior to Sasuke's fall. The comedic relief with Suigetsu that people seemed to like when she was first created. Problem is....he went the dark route and he can't go back like it didn't happen. He went there, he's stuck with the consequences and his failure to appreciate this results in this awful characterization. Whether he intends the implications or not, they are there. Honestly, I'm not sure what is worse, a failure to forsee them or an intentional ignorance of them.

I think if he didn't want to bother he should have just left her in jail.

Team Not Seven is total disaster.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

thing is sasuke has to acknowledge her at one point. and if he does try in saving her so what.

She already got it on her confession that's why the "thank you" from Sasuke was important to her.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Over the years I've developed a bit of cynisism over the pairing wars. Conseqeuntly, I think it'd be kinda of funny to off some combination of Sakura/Naruto/Hinata/Sasuke (doesn't matter which) as a giant F-you to the fandoms. Whoops, they died....nobody gets anybody. Oh well.

The story construction alone would prevent me from doing this (I do care about that after all) if I were Kishimoto, but watching the pairings wars would at least creation a strong temptation to kill them off and say...oh, well sorry about that.
 

I think it was always a case of wanting Sasuke to fall into the darkness and eventually come out of it, but doing so is messy if you plan to make him good again, especially if the redemption itself is at the end. It leaves you less time to sell it the audience and the rest of the cast. The worse Sasuke is the harder it is for people to swallow. This is why she lives.

I strongly believe his involvement in the war arc is to help set up everyone else's redemption. Even if his motives aren't pure, he's still helping them when they need it.

Karin's treatment, I think, is a consequence of his writing style. He has a habit of creating characters to accomplish a specific purpose and then pushing them off to the background when they have done that. Karin was used to demonstrate his descent, but once done, there was nothing left for her, so he put he shoved her back into the same role she was prior to Sasuke's fall. The comedic relief with Suigetsu that people seemed to like when she was first created. Problem is....he went the dark route and he can't go back like it didn't happen. He went there, he's stuck with the consequences and his failure to appreciate this results in this awful characterization. Whether he intends the implications or not, they are there. Honestly, I'm not sure what is worse, a failure to forsee them or an intentional ignorance of them.

I think if he didn't want to bother he should have just left her in jail.

Team Not Seven is total disaster.

Yep, i think the same the only purpose for them to be alive is that it opens the possibility of Sasuke's redemption, if they died and were rooting in jail, would be Sasuke's fault, they orbitate towards Sasuke's character, if they die Sasuke has to face the consequences, i view this Team Not Seven, as his new team/family.

The only reason why this team was made was to show that Sasuke is not going back to team 7.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well Sasuke is already ahead and focusing on with Juugo, so he's pretty much working with someone already. He got no time, the time is literally on the line. Naruto is going now, but we know he will be the same as always: when a friend in trouble, help. Honestly, this is setting up for a parallel overload because this is the last volume, Naruto continues to be the main focus, Obito is the one to hold the greater power, Obito/Naruto are still similar, must go over personal matter before his end, for fun Minato is still there, TnJ is still hanging, heck I can see that happening to stop the tree, I'm not kidding, and many more. I'm not worried at all. Shoot, if anything, got a small man of Team Taka and maybe small man of Team 7, but who knows.

[Paptala]

I could see Sakura's life being in danger next volume, definitely.

 

If we want to tie in other foreshadowing then I could see something along these lines happening:

 

- Sakura takes a blow for Naruto, the same way she took the sword to the stomach for Chiyo (fulfilling the foreshadowing from Chiyo's words about Sakura protecting people who are precious to her next time)

- They talk a bit before Sakura falls unconscious (maybe if Kishi really wants to hammer parallels, it will play a bit like Minato and Kushina's final conversation, with Sakura telling Naruto not to make that face and/or Naruto telling her she can't die and that she made him who he is now)

- The interaction and Naruto's reaction when she falls unconscious leads Obito to see him and Rin (maybe Kishi will have Naruto holding Sakura in a similar manner than he showed Obito holding Rin's body)

- Naruto will go all out on Obito - whatever the result, Obito tries to tempt Naruto into accepting the Infinite Tsukiyomi where he can have Sakura back, and Naruto will flat out refuse (making him surpass Obito) and his resulting reasons/speech will effectively TnJ Obito

- In the meantime, Sakura is healed by Karin (a reverse of how Sakura saved Karin at the summit by healing her)

 

So basically, I can see it kind of working out like the ordeal with Sasuke taking the blow for Naruto in the fight against Haku, Naruto flipping out, and then Naruto learning only afterwards that Sasuke is alright.

 

As for Sasuke reacting, I don't see him having much of one honestly.  He was apathetic when protecting Sakura back in 632, and apathetic about leaving her to die when they were trapped in the barrier.  He'll likely look shocked (he wouldn't bother protecting her if he didn't care at least a little bit about her still), but I don't think he would show much reaction outside of that.  It wouldn't be the point of the scene regardless - which would be to confirm ObiRin NaruSaku parallel and lead to Obito's TnJ, as well as showcasing Sakura as the heroine and the strength of her feelings for Naruto once again.

 

/shameless speculating

 

Either way, I hope that the set up from this chapter leads to the conclusion of the fight against Obito in the next volume.

 

Just a small side note:  I saw another connection with Road to Ninja in this chapter - Sakura connecting with Naruto's heart and feeling the pain of loneliness he did is very similar to Sakura essentially swapping places with Naruto and becoming the orphan - in both instances she comes to understand Naruto's pain of loneliness specifically by feeling what he felt.  It probably doedn't mean anything, I just thought it was an interesting  similarity is all.

 

By the way, concerning Sakura's line:  Can anyone confirm which line of Sakura's is the correct one from this chapter - the one with her saying, "I can feel his heart" or "We're entering his heart"?  I would really appreciate it :-)

Edited by Paptala, 19 September 2013 - 02:48 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

^You know, it's funny that the people think it's going to the movie route. In a way, it is but not the fact they're going to moon eye plan, rather the developments that they are going through. Sakura has been shown that she cares a lot for the people around her, so hearing that hurt her. Now, well understanding Naruto could lead her motivated heavily. I think she will be moved to the point she will put her life first than anyone else. Time will tell what's next but I already mentioned why we're in luck. The wait is killing me.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

I love this post, I agree wholeheartedly. Except for the bit about being able to understand why Sakura fell in love with Sasuke in part I. He was quite cold to her a number of times, and she even thought he hated her. But I guess that's twelve year old girls for ya.

 

To me, Sakura's 'love' for Sasuke was just the immature and irrational love of a twelve year old. Changing herself to gain his attention, competing with other girls, allowing him to treat her poorly. Even she said in her desperate confession to him "You never talk to me", she did grow to have a genuine affection for him, but I don't think it was love in the romantic sense, she just didn't know any other way to define it and I think being away from him for so long has just muddied those waters even more.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

You know, I just clicked... So we know Obito's biggest regret is not confessing to Rin and Minato's biggest regret, outside the Naruto matter is the fact that he couldn't protect Kushina, thus she died.

We all know where this leads, right? We all know that Naruto wants to protect Sakura and confess to her, so I just thought, now it makes sense that Rin and Kushina were brought-up lately. What if that scenario with Sakura being in danger, yadda yadda, comes into play soon?

 

Well, there's definitely some foreshadowing that Sakura might find herself in a dangerous situation, especially with the "I want to die fighting" being brought up again like Tauriel said. I just don't want her to end up the damsel in distress, so if it happens, I want to see her put up a damn good fight.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 

To me, Sakura's 'love' for Sasuke was just the immature and irrational love of a twelve year old. Changing herself to gain his attention, competing with other girls, allowing him to treat her poorly. Even she said in her desperate confession to him "You never talk to me", she did grow to have a genuine affection for him, but I don't think it was love in the romantic sense, she just didn't know any other way to define it and I think being away from him for so long has just muddied those waters even more.

I have to go with this too. When she said that line, she acknowledged that they never really got along as individuals, rather as a group. By that I mean group interactions and mission interactions. When was the last time we saw them together talking in a daily life? According to my head, nothing. Sakura keeps trying but he keeps breaking her heart, so naturally, before he leaves for a long time, she acknowledged that they never got along. The one thing Sasuke will respect her is her being in Team 7 as a family, so that's his farewell. Somebody in here or tumblr posted something interesting about the scene being rejection, even though many already said this, but it's connected to the culture. I can see why people said that chapter is end of SS because why Sasuke never say anything good? Why Sasuke never got to do anything good? Why can't he interact with her normal? Why he has no desire to talk to her? Why he never see her as a person? Why that thought never cross his mind? Why Sakura never talked about that love until the last arc? Why even continue to build NS if it was solidify as best friend from part 1? Answer them.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

I have to go with this too. When she said that line, she acknowledged that they never really got along as individuals, rather as a group. By that I mean group interactions and mission interactions. When was the last time we saw them together talking in a daily life? According to my head, nothing. Sakura keeps trying but he keeps breaking her heart, so naturally, before he leaves for a long time, she acknowledged that they never got along. The one thing Sasuke will respect her is her being in Team 7 as a family, so that's his farewell. Somebody in here or tumblr posted something interesting about the scene being rejection, even though many already said this, but it's connected to the culture. I can see why people said that chapter is end of SS because why Sasuke never say anything good? Why Sasuke never got to do anything good? Why can't he interact with her normal? Why he has no desire to talk to her? Why he never see her as a person? Why that thought never cross his mind? Why Sakura never talked about that love until the last arc? Why even continue to build NS if it was solidify as best friend from part 1? Answer them.

 

I kind of think Sasuke is just too damaged for love. Coming home at seven years old to find your entire clan slaughtered and your parents dead at your brother's hand, it's a devastating betrayal and terribly traumatic. He's been shown to have something of an affection for Karin and seems to tolerate her, but I don't think he'll be willing to give more than that. And Sakura could never be happy in that sort of relationship, she wants love and she wants to be loved.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 

I kind of think Sasuke is just too damaged for love. Coming home at seven years old to find your entire clan slaughtered and your parents dead at your brother's hand, it's a devastating betrayal and terribly traumatic. He's been shown to have something of an affection for Karin and seems to tolerate her, but I don't think he'll be willing to give more than that. And Sakura could never be happy in that sort of relationship, she wants love and she wants to be loved.

Yeah, that's pretty much the deal. Plus, Sasuke's character is built around brotherhood, so Kishi most likely has no desire for anything else, though if he wants Sasuke to get a future, he can use epilogue, but who knows. Oh, I forgot to mention that Naruto's birthday is coming as well, so yeah, this is all about Naruto, so I want to know her next move in the next chapter.

[Hanabi]

Well I am just gonna copy what I wrote on NB

 

Seeing how she was also struck by the same feeling of impotence, so to speak, as Naruto, I feel that she will suffer the same fate as Kushina and Rin, as in either almost die or die [but not for good] in a process of protecting not only Konoha, but the whole Alliance since now we aren't talking only about villages.

This way, the parallel cycle with Rin-Kushina-Sakura comes to full circle, Obito's parallel with Naruto as well, in which Obito will bring him exactly in his shoes and from there on, we should have the final thing with the new generation surpassing the old one. [minus ofc, the last one, aka the battle between naruto and sasuke]

So yeah, I think that Sakura's death or near-death state card is going to be played soon, the only difference is either she won't die, or she'll die temporarily and be brought back later.

andddd don't forget what an important person told her before her death.. "And Sakura… Next time, save the people who are dear to you, not some old hag. You and I are very similar. There aren't many girls as chivalrous as you around. You might become a kunoichi who surpasses her master."

Edited by Hanabi, 19 September 2013 - 03:44 PM.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

^ Yes, Sasuke's theme as a character, is botherhood, you could say, both in it's positive and negative qualities. His bond with Itachi started out as the typical little-brother-who-wants-be-acknowledge-by-big-brother, and transformed into a "Bond of hatred" and then comes full circle to a brotherly love that transcends all things. That is also the theme between Naruto and Sasuke, they are brothers even if not by blood, Sasuke just won't let himself see it yet. 

 

And I can't believe I just typed that, since I'm not a fan of SasuNaru of any kind

[TouKen4Life3g]

^ Yes, Sasuke's theme as a character, is botherhood, you could say, both in it's positive and negative qualities. His bond with Itachi started out as the typical little-brother-who-wants-be-acknowledge-by-big-brother, and transformed into a "Bond of hatred" and then comes full circle to a brotherly love that transcends all things. That is also the theme between Naruto and Sasuke, they are brothers even if not by blood, Sasuke just won't let himself see it yet. 

 

And I can't believe I just typed that, since I'm not a fan of SasuNaru of any kind

No problem. It's best to acknowledge the bond before it would seem you ignore the manga.

[ramenanmitsu]

the only thing that i see this on that every girl, Sakura, Ino, Hinata and even Karin doesnt have self respect.

In my opinion, Sakura and Ino is much more better than Hinata and Karin. 

 

All four of them cannot let go of their feelings. Well this is understandable since you can't just erase your feelings like a robot. However, Sakura and Ino is different in a way that they don't wish to be their love interest's girlfriend/aggressively try to pursue their love interest since part 2. They keep their feelings to themselves. 

 

Karin and Hinata obviously knows their feelings are one-sided and the guy doesn't really care about them, yet they desperately try to grab their love interest. To me, this action lacks self-interest. 

 

 

She made me rage when she called Naruto a fool for loving her, on the meantime we have Sasuke doing bad things to her and she doesnt get the same conclusion.

I think you interpreted Sakura's sentence in a bad way. Sakura didn't say Naruto was a "fool" to make fun of him or berate him. That sentence was to berate herself. She thinks she doesn't deserve all the attention Naruto gives her. Therefore she called him a "fool" because he is in love with an unworthy girl.

 

And about the latter part, chapter 540 clearly showed that she is ashamed of having feelings for Sasuke. That's more negatively stronger than being just a "fool". 

 

well those two little times sure doesn't  make up for all the times afterwards lols . him stepping on her apples that she made for him , him telling her that she's even weaker than Naruto , that she's annoying , telling her basically no thank you to her confession , him telling her mind her own business after she was concerned about the mark , him slapping the apples from her hand . he could honestly care less about Sakura-Chan's feelings imo . she knows Sasuke hates her so those two points FOD and the genjutsu comment didn't mean much if she still thought he hates her .  she doesn't know why she loves him , she has no reason to love him , she can't come up with a reason why she loves him .  But she sure did give reasons as why she couldn't "love" him any more . 

What? So are you saying that Sasuke sacrificing his life to save Sakura doesn't make up for him stepping on her apples, telling her she's weak (which is a wake-up call she needed), annoying (which was a start that changed her for the better), and rejecting her confession (which he had every right to do so), and tell her to mind his own business? 

 

So if somebody saves your life, are you still going to hate that person because he stepped on your apples? Or told you were annoying? 

 

Well, if that's the case I guess we have to agree to disagree here. Since, we probably don't share the same standards of how we perceive people. 

 

But those are the exception rather than the norm. Both were very high tension situation that pushed the limit of Sakura's nerves. And notice how both of them have to do with Naruto. Goes to show how much of an influence Naruto was to Sakura even as early as the forest of death.

 

I think the best way to describe it is that in Sakura's instance she's infuriated, but with Karin it's her giving him attitude. With Karin's anger you can chuckle, just like you can when Sakura gets mad at Naruto, but when Sakura did to Sasuke it's meant to give a very serious atmosphere.

I don't know how either is better than the other. Whether it's comic relief, or serious situation, it doesn't change the fact that they can both talk back towards Sasuke. 

 

Or do you mean to say that SK shippers like SK because it's a relationship based on comedy, whereas SS shippers like SS because it's a relationship based on seriousness? If that's the case, I think the SK relationship has stopped being a comedy a long time ago. 

 

 

 

As for Karin in this chapter I found it funny, but that's probably because I don't have any grand expectations for her. I do think, as I've said before, that there's a chance she could end with Sasuke given their development here and there, but I'm aware that at most it might be just some panel in an epilogue that will have that God-level vagueness that Kishi is such an expert of.

 

I do think Sasuke will have some sort of resolution with Team Taka that will leave them all in a good place with each other, whatever that might be, and obviously Karin will be included in that. To what extent it might involve with Karin I don't care for making prediction. Whatever comes I'm fine with it as long at it concludes in good terms.

I'm not going to oppose you here. Even though I don't like SK, bashing it isn't my intention. I only disagree with the SK>SS debate.

 

 

 

And as long as she's not saying something like "Sasuke, you're the best" out loud she can do whatever the heck she pleases and I can brush it off as Kishi's usual attempt of using Karin's Sasuke obsessed mental quirks for humor. Notice that up to this day she has yet to praise Sasuke out loud, and that's because she's too proud to give in even if the others already notice her sentiments (strangely enough that pride reminds me of Sasuke himself). That's one difference between her and Sasuke's academy fangirls.

I'm not going to deny that all the girl's interactions with Sasuke are a little different. For example, Sakura is different compared to Karin/Ino in that she doesn't cling to Sasuke because he's hot. The only time she has hugged Sasuke was in a very serious situation (when he's nearly dying/when he's in the curse seal). Which is respectful in a way. 

 

But these little interactions between Karin/Sakura and Sasuke still doesn't change the destructive nature of the relationship. Hence, I can't see how they are that different. 

 

As I said, I'm not trying to deny anybody from liking SK. I'm just disagreeing with some people who are acting as if Sakura committed a big crime for loving Sasuke, and yet at the same time giving Karin a free pass for doing the same thing. 

[tricksie]

I could see Sakura's life being in danger next volume, definitely.

 

If we want to tie in other foreshadowing then I could see something along these lines happening:

 

- Sakura takes a blow for Naruto, the same way she took the sword to the stomach for Chiyo (fulfilling the foreshadowing from Chiyo's words about Sakura protecting people who are precious to her next time)

- They talk a bit before Sakura falls unconscious (maybe if Kishi really wants to hammer parallels, it will play a bit like Minato and Kushina's final conversation, with Sakura telling Naruto not to make that face and/or Naruto telling her she can't die and that she made him who he is now)

- The interaction and Naruto's reaction when she falls unconscious leads Obito to see him and Rin (maybe Kishi will have Naruto holding Sakura in a similar manner than he showed Obito holding Rin's body)

- Naruto will go all out on Obito - whatever the result, Obito tries to tempt Naruto into accepting the Infinite Tsukiyomi where he can have Sakura back, and Naruto will flat out refuse (making him surpass Obito) and his resulting reasons/speech will effectively TnJ Obito

- In the meantime, Sakura is healed by Karin (a reverse of how Sakura saved Karin at the summit by healing her)

Good stuff. I could definitely see it happening.

 

It's interesting to think that Obito's motive is his love/loss of Rin. For all the friendship bonds that circle around Naruto, Obito's bond with Kakashi takes a back seat to his bond to Rin in terms of motivating him for the future.

 

However Madara and Hashirama seemed to be more like Sasuke/Naruto in terms of a mirrored friendship/rivalry bond.

 

Anyway, because of Obito's love-centric motives, I could really see a senario like you presented happening. Where Obito forces Naruto to become like him by stealing the one thing he loves most, with the promise to restore it in this other world.

 

With Obito, the parallel to Naruto has no real tie to that yin/yang Sasuke bond. Other villains have been presented as a sort of stepping stone to his conflict with Sasuke. But this one, if Kishimoto chooses to go that route, could reflect on Naruto's love and future life, representing what he's willing to give sacrifice to get to it.

 

Honestly, it would be nice to see everything brought up to some do-or-die level choices. To really see Naruto tested. Sakura's death (or appearance of it) would really force Naruto to be the hero and make the hard choices that no one else can make.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

No problem. It's best to acknowledge the bond before it would seem you ignore the manga.

 

Yup. I don't ever want to be one of those people that ignore what the story is telling them. The bond between Naruto and Sasuke is a key aspect of this manga, I can acknowledge that even if I'm not terribly fond of it.