1001 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

Hm, I see good amount of split decisions on the chapter. Funny, because I feel like I'm in the middle To me, the follow-up will make me decide to like this chapter or dislike it. I'm fine with SK and NS, they have no worries. Right now, this is the general fan of me talking, and the main question is this all for Naruto vs. Sasuke, meaning nothing. I don't buy it. I see something going to happen later. Nevertheless, can't wait for Minato.

[James S Cassidy]

I just disagree though when some people (not anyone in particular) write what are their OPINIONS with the whole sense of "oh kishi messed it up, it makes no sense whatsover and the rest of you are fools" (and vice versa) instead of remembering our opinions are subjective.

Personality, I don't think Sasuke's redemption was THAT out of the left field for people to talk about it being an asspull like it's a FACT, not an opinion.

Yet I get the same thing for people with similar opinions as yours with the people who find even slight fault with it.

"Oh the chapter was so good. You're just a pessimist. You don't see the good writing that's in it."

That's kind of the same way of talking to be honest with you and I feel threatened by it. Keep in mind, this is exactly what caused the same problems when 615 came out and both optimist and pessimist were at each others throats the whole time with many getting banned for it.
I don't think the chapter was as good. I thought it was "meh" at best.

And I have still yet to get an answer for something. Wasn't Sasuke going to destroy Konoha, so why is he saving it now? If he decides not to destroy it, then in what other way is he going to be evil to have the Naruto vs Sasuke fight to occur. You just can't fight to fight, there has to be some kind of selfish desire from Sasuke. Even if that desire is "I want a strong opponent."

So how is Kishi going to make Sasuke appear half good, but still evil enough to warrant a Naruto vs Sasuke fight. This is confusing me the most about it and I am a little worried about the future of the manga story itself. What if Kishi makes Sasuke go 100% evil again just to make a the fight occur? Wouldn't that make this chapter pointless?

Okay, so Sasuke redemption doesn't bother me: This is completely a given. Not the way I would have envisioned it, but whatever. I would have found it easier if Sasuke started having doubts by this time, but I find him going to 50% good is a little too much development in such a short time. Plus the fact that he wants to fight in the war to protect Itachi's dream or whatever only to destroy the Konoha later which is Itachi's dream is...weird to me. So what is the real story? However, the redemption still doesn't guarantee survival, nor canon pairing.

Do you care more about Sasuke's redemption or Naruto succeeding? Cause Kishi could make Sasuke be redeemed right now and Naruto's involvement non existent. Making Naruto's role as a main character become nothing. So, it's great that Sasuke is changing....again....,but where does this leave Naruto? His whole life was to bring Sasuke back to the light and if it feels like he hardly did anything to change Sasuke, then...what? Do we care more about Sasuke's life or Naruto's?

Right now, it looks Sasuke can change his heart without Naruto doing anything at all. I want Naruto to do something to really change Sasuke.

and what about Sakura?

This is my worry above all else. It's great in the short run, but the more development Sasuke gets to "change," the more diminished role Naruto and Sakura have on Sasuke. Not only that, but if it all ends up going full circle, then the whole manga was just a waste of time to begin with and this is what I fear for the ending itself. So how is Kishi going to make it so Naruto makes this great impact and still keep this chapter legit and without diminishing anything. This really has to be the final development for Sasuke otherwise Kishi is going to put himself in the corner where Hinata is the heroine and Sasuke is the main character when really it should be Sakura the heroine and Naruto the main character.

I am also not too fond of what Kishi did to Karin in this chapter, but it seems like I am the only one who really gives a crap. Sorry, the guy tried to kill you. It shouldn't be THAT easy to forgive him for it. No girl in reality is that forgiving and even if she is she was abused to be so.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 11 April 2013 - 02:29 AM.

[Inferno180]

Well despite the turn for Sasuke, we just need to see where it goes then, it seemed earth rushed to some people, but some good can come from it, so its an unsure position now. I know I've been in and out but I've been busy and I just need to get some sleep so I have had to read up on some of the other posts here just to see what others said. So no worries about NaruSaku or much else. The story is still there, just some feel its getting lazy, hopefully development won't be axed for anyone, the apology was still funny on Karin's part, I mean yeah Sasuke apologized but was he sincere about it? We just need to hope that kishi just does not revert Sakura, that's the only thing some worried about at first with this moment with Karin. I remember the theory of people saying Sakura ran back to Konha when Sasuke was there, that was a funny one and looking at it now, that would have been even worse if it occurred. I just want to see team 7 come together but with their development intact, Naruto finishing everything and earning the right for hokage and Sakura, Sakura maturing over Sasuke and realizing her feelings for Naruto, and Sasuke going through with this redemption and being able to be forgiven. It is interesting that despite his change of heart, he is still an enemy of the shinobi world so it would have to be something for him to stand for his crimes. Yeah Naruto would give the biggest lawyer-talk no jutsu to get people to forgive him or Sasuke will stay wandering, maybe sacrifice himself as some thought but guess things became interesting.

Just hope team 7 ends with NaruSaku and redeemed Sasuke, not Sasuke loving life and everything, Sakura is a fangirl again, and Naruto's doing other stuff with all his merits ignored again...

Still no reason to worry, NaruSaku is still on track with nothing having harmed it. Just hope Kishi slows down a bit if anything and does not rush as much.

[fireandice]

Yet I get the same thing for people with similar opinions as yours with the people who find even slight fault with it.

"Oh the chapter was so good. You're just a pessimist. You don't see the good writing that's in it."

That's kind of the same way of talking to be honest with you and I feel threatened by it. Keep in mind, this is exactly what caused the same problems when 615 came out and both optimist and pessimist were at each others throats the whole time with many getting banned for it.
I don't think the chapter was as good. I thought it was "meh" at best.

And I have still yet to get an answer for something. Wasn't Sasuke going to destroy Konoha, so why is he saving it now? If he decides not to destroy it, then in what other way is he going to be evil to have the Naruto vs Sasuke fight to occur. You just can't fight to fight, there has to be some kind of selfish desire from Sasuke. Even if that desire is "I want a strong opponent."

So how is Kishi going to make Sasuke appear half good, but still evil enough to warrant a Naruto vs Sasuke fight. This is confusing me the most about it and I am a little worried about the future of the manga story itself. What if Kishi makes Sasuke go 100% evil again just to make a the fight occur? Wouldn't that make this chapter pointless?

Okay, so Sasuke redemption doesn't bother me: This is completely a given. Not the way I would have envisioned it, but whatever. I would have found it easier if Sasuke started having doubts by this time, but I find him going to 50% good is a little too much development in such a short time. Plus the fact that he wants to fight in the war to protect Itachi's dream or whatever only to destroy the Konoha later which is Itachi's dream is...weird to me. So what is the real story? However, the redemption still doesn't guarantee survival, nor canon pairing.

Do you care more about Sasuke's redemption or Naruto succeeding? Cause Kishi could make Sasuke be redeemed right now and Naruto's involvement non existent. Making Naruto's role as a main character become nothing. So, it's great that Sasuke is changing....again....,but where does this leave Naruto? His whole life was to bring Sasuke back to the light and if it feels like he hardly did anything to change Sasuke, then...what? Do we care more about Sasuke's life or Naruto's?

Right now, it looks Sasuke can change his heart without Naruto doing anything at all. I want Naruto to do something to really change Sasuke.

and what about Sakura?

This is my worry above all else. It's great in the short run, but the more development Sasuke gets to "change," the more diminished role Naruto and Sakura have on Sasuke. Not only that, but if it all ends up going full circle, then the whole manga was just a waste of time to begin with and this is what I fear for the ending itself. So how is Kishi going to make it so Naruto makes this great impact and still keep this chapter legit and without diminishing anything. This really has to be the final development for Sasuke otherwise Kishi is going to put himself in the corner where Hinata is the heroine and Sasuke is the main character when really it should be Sakura the heroine and Naruto the main character.

I am also not too fond of what Kishi did to Karin in this chapter, but it seems like I am the only one who really gives a crap. Sorry, the guy tried to kill you. It shouldn't be THAT easy to forgive him for it. No girl in reality is that forgiving and even if she is she was abused to be so.

I have to go the something now so unfortunately I can't do a long reply

BUT yes I know how it's not nice when people kind of behave as though people who didn't like the chapter feel it's all "PSH whats wrong with you. U must not hv read the chapter", especially if people take the time to write a long reply saying why they didn't like it, not just "CHAPTER SUCKS KISHI SUCKS"

I think for everyone to take note, no matter HOW convicted you feel that your opinion is most valid, just tacking on a "In my opinion..." "Ok, this is just how I view it" instead of speaking as though our opinions are facts really go a long way to making everyone feel more welcome and less annoyed/alienated by the sense that their views are outright dismissed as being illogical

[Don-kun]

Um ... you're okay with having Sakura reduced to pairing fodder and actually only doing something with Sasuke's arrival? Imo, that possibility is horrible and I'm flinching at even imagining it. I'd rather see Sakura do something epic in fighting or supporting Naruto please, not retarded SS drama. I actually feel insulted as a Sakura fan to see her having a "shining moment" related to Sasuke unless it includes "getting over him".

The rest, besides the SK fangirling (Hate that ship, this chapter solidfied it for me), I mostly agree with. I'm disappointed with how this was handled by Kishi more than I like it but it's nice to see Sasuke be on his way to redemption as a fan of him. I'm looking forward to the Team 7 fight on the battlefield and SasuNaru.

@Foolish Youngling: Honestly, I see it being 50/50 between Sasuke dying and returning to Konoha as a ninja again. I know the latter sounds ridiculous but after a chapter like this, it's chances suddenly increased dramatically. If Sasuke helps take town Obito and Madara, he has redeemed himself and could be accepted back in Konoha. Sasuke wants to protect Itachi's wishes, right? Returning to Konoha and joining T7 was one of those.

Yeah that line kind of rub me off the wrong way, I guess once you like sometimes you never stop liking it regardless of how bad it looks.

I mean did I believe the SK scene was funny? Hell yes. And more for the fact that many loves to claim that only Sakura still love Sasuke, so it was like what is your excuse know since it's proven again that Karin still love Sasuke.

Now did I believe it gave a positive message to the kids who are reading this story? Hell no. Kishimoto made Karin look like a sick fan girl, pathetic with no self respect, zero dignity, zero pride, it show oh sexiest towards the female character he is and his opinions of young girl are not so good.

Now I honestly feel sad for who believe this is any ideal love and I would really hate it if Sakura get this treatment, but honestly I feel confident that she already choose to stay beside Naruto.

Now if Karin kicked Sasuke head instead of Suigetsu and he said something like I really deserved it Karin I'm really sorry, with Karin saying that I might be following but don't you ever believe you are gating my forgiveness that easy, then I would applaud this Chapter.

And about the poster, since day one I always believe was a NS, Sasuke fan and Sasuke harem fan.

Edited by Don-kun, 11 April 2013 - 02:36 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I just can't believe SK is alive. There I said it. Anyway, rest up everyone. This could be the biggest climatic moment of the manga.

[Qia]

I just can't believe SK is alive. There I said it. Anyway, rest up everyone. This could be the biggest climatic moment of the manga.

BELIEVE IT!

[AzureWaters]

Concerning SasuKarin, this chapter didn't do the pairing many favors imo. It was portrayed as comedic where the scene should have been at least mildly serious. It makes it look like a joke.

Also I guess this means if Sakura's going to get development, it will be while Sasuke's around. This makes things a little more complicated as he's usually quite the distraction for her. We'll see how it all progresses from here.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Naruto.

Where the possibility of a pairing that includes one member nearly murdering the other in cold blood is more important than the butchering of a character and the story itself.

Why do I feel the like the whole mentality is like: "You have to like this chapter cause it was so good, but if you find fault you are wrong."

Oh well, better fall in line or get left behind.

Yep, pretty much...

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 11 April 2013 - 02:42 AM.

[narusakuluv]

I am also not too fond of what Kishi did to Karin in this chapter, but it seems like I am the only one who really gives a crap. Sorry, the guy tried to kill you. It shouldn't be THAT easy to forgive him for it. No girl in reality is that forgiving and even if she is she was abused to be so.

Oh, I am so not okay with what happened. I used to ship SasuKarin back in the day because even though she fangirled too much, she didn't put up with Sasuke's crap and she was one of the only females he seemed to respect. Then he stabbed her, tried to kill her, and tried to make Sakura kill her. That's one way to kill a ship.

Sasuke's apology was crap, he showed way more remorse when he was leaving Sakura behind and seemed genuinely apologetic then. This was just a tiny panel of him saying "Sorry, Karin." Is everyone so desperate to ship Sasuke with someone other than Sakura that they jump on the tinniest little hints? We are the fandom with the big moments people, we don't make decisions based on little tiny panels.

And he just kind of looks uncomfortable when she hugs him, not flustered or anything. Is there even the slightest hint of a blush? No? Okay, he's not flustered. He always put up with her fangirling because she was useful to him. Now she's useful again. Also, I definitely think he's hiding something and how is he supposed to convince the Hokages that he's a good guy now if he shoves Karin off and acts like an a**hole?

But yeah, Karin going back to him like that makes me sick. He didn't even do anything to redeem himself yet, he just said "Sorry." I know she's a little messed up, but this is a terrible message Kishi's sending to all the kids reading this.

[James S Cassidy]

I have to go the something now so unfortunately I can't do a long reply

BUT yes I know how it's not nice when people kind of behave as though people who didn't like the chapter feel it's all "PSH whats wrong with you. U must not hv read the chapter", especially if people take the time to write a long reply saying why they didn't like it, not just "CHAPTER SUCKS KISHI SUCKS"

I think for everyone to take note, no matter HOW convicted you feel that your opinion is most valid, just tacking on a "In my opinion..." "Ok, this is just how I view it" instead of speaking as though our opinions are facts really go a long way to making everyone feel more welcome and less annoyed/alienated by the sense that their views are outright dismissed as being illogical

Yeah, exactly. No matter what you believe, you have to respect the other's opinion.

I don't like nor hate this chapter. I am just afraid of what might come in the future in terms of Naruto vs Sasuke fight and how it leads up to it. I hate for chapters to go to waste or Kishi pull some asspull move just to have something go a certain way.

That's what 615-617 felt like to me. Here I thought Naruto became more accepting of people dying in the war, more accepting that lose can happen, and accepting his demons, but an asspull moment of him losing faith when Neji died and it feels like all that was wasted just to do a certain scene.

I don't want this to be a common practice till the end. Not when we are this close to the end.

Oh, I am so not okay with what happened.

lol. Okay, that is three people who give a crap about Karin. XD

Edited by James S Cassidy, 11 April 2013 - 02:50 AM.

[narusakuluv]

I just can't believe SK is alive. There I said it. Anyway, rest up everyone. This could be the biggest climatic moment of the manga.

God I hope not.

[FrenchMyToast]

Concerning SasuKarin, this chapter didn't do the pairing many favors imo. It was portrayed as comedic where the scene should have been at least mildly serious. It makes it look like a joke.

Also I guess this means if Sakura's going to get development, it will be while Sasuke's around. This makes things a little more complicated as he's usually quite the distraction for her. We'll see how it all progresses from here.

I agree. If she were to have kicked Sasuke instead and actually had a conversation with him, it would have had much more value. But I can understand that Kishi probably didn't want some long depressing speech from either Sasuke or Karin in this chapter. 627 was really trying to get you excited and pumped-up about the Kages joining the war and Sasuke getting "redeemed." A long conversation over a topic not many people care about would have dampened the mood.

[TouKen4Life3g]

BELIEVE IT!

Concerning SasuKarin, this chapter didn't do the pairing many favors imo. It was portrayed as comedic where the scene should have been at least mildly serious. It makes it look like a joke.

Also I guess this means if Sakura's going to get development, it will be while Sasuke's around. This makes things a little more complicated as he's usually quite the distraction for her. We'll see how it all progresses from here.

We'll see. The point is that Sakura is not the only one anymore. I actually thought she is the only one to keep these feelings. Turns out, well, she's not alone. This leads to think if she does goes back, it will be no pairing, for at least on her side. Well, I hope Kishi takes his time here. Because it will be an odd ending since...well to me, KHR. Time will tell. For me, I got Bioshock to play over two weeks. Excuse me.

Oh, I am so not okay with what happened. I used to ship SasuKarin back in the day because even though she fangirled too much, she didn't put up with Sasuke's crap and she was one of the only females he seemed to respect. Then he stabbed her, tried to kill her, and tried to make Sakura kill her. That's one way to kill a ship.

Sasuke's apology was crap, he showed way more remorse when he was leaving Sakura behind and seemed genuinely apologetic then. This was just a tiny panel of him saying "Sorry, Karin." Is everyone so desperate to ship Sasuke with someone other than Sakura that they jump on the tinniest little hints? We are the fandom with the big moments people, we don't make decisions based on little tiny panels.

And he just kind of looks uncomfortable when she hugs him, not flustered or anything. Is there even the slightest hint of a blush? No? Okay, he's not flustered. He always put up with her fangirling because she was useful to him. Now she's useful again. Also, I definitely think he's hiding something and how is he supposed to convince the Hokages that he's a good guy now if he shoves Karin off and acts like an a**hole?

But yeah, Karin going back to him like that makes me sick. He didn't even do anything to redeem himself yet, he just said "Sorry." I know she's a little messed up, but this is a terrible message Kishi's sending to all the kids reading this.

I understand. Funny, if it were handled longer and well, better, perhaps I'll hop on, for now, I'll keep my eye on. It is alive, but should I support it? Hm, I'll see.

Yeah, exactly. No matter what you believe, you have to respect the other's opinion.

I don't like nor hate this chapter. I am just afraid of what might come in the future in terms of Naruto vs Sasuke fight and how it leads up to it. I hate for chapters to go to waste or Kishi pull some asspull move just to have something go a certain way.

That's what 615-617 felt like to me. Here I thought Naruto became more accepting of people dying in the war, more accepting that lose can happen, and accepting his demons, but an asspull moment of him losing faith when Neji died and it feels like all that was wasted just to do a certain scene.

I don't want this to be a common practice till the end. Not when we are this close to the end.



lol. Okay, that is three people who give a crap about Karin. XD

Well, I feel the same about liking this chapter or not. This chapter is in pending for me.

God I hope not.

Well, I'm assuming because the next phase of battle is the boss battle.

[AzureWaters]

I agree. If she were to have kicked Sasuke instead and actually had a conversation with him, it would have had much more value. But I can understand that Kishi probably didn't want some long depressing speech from either Sasuke or Karin in this chapter. 627 was really trying to get you excited and pumped-up about the Kages joining the war and Sasuke getting "redeemed." A long conversation over a topic not many people care about would have dampened the mood.

He could have saved it for next chapter in order to give it more time and relevance. Instead Karin's joining is barely a page and not impactful at all. It looks like Kishi rushed the scene to get it out of the way.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I agree. If she were to have kicked Sasuke instead and actually had a conversation with him, it would have had much more value. But I can understand that Kishi probably didn't want some long depressing speech from either Sasuke or Karin in this chapter. 627 was really trying to get you excited and pumped-up about the Kages joining the war and Sasuke getting "redeemed." A long conversation over a topic not many people care about would have dampened the mood.

You do have a point about keeping the mood up and all.

He could have saved it for next chapter in order to give it more time and relevance. Instead Karin's joining is barely a page and not impactful at all. It looks like Kishi rushed the scene to get it out of the way.

The problem is that the limitation of the manga chapter. First of all, this is the last chapter of the volume. I guess he's really into the whole volume equals a purpose for each. The whole volume was the flashback and the key to answer. Second, they only got what, 17 pages, so if you combine with the first one, Kishi pretty much rushed the last 5-6 pages to get it done so the next ride with these guys will be exciting. So yeah, one thing I do hate about manga. That's just me.

[FoolishYoungling]

Should I make a "Should we ship SasuKarin" thread?

[TouKen4Life3g]

Should I make a "Should we ship SasuKarin" thread?

Lol. Maybe.

Fun fact: There's over 10 lurkers in SK FC back in NF. How strange.

[AzureWaters]

We'll see. The point is that Sakura is not the only one anymore. I actually thought she is the only one to keep these feelings. Turns out, well, she's not alone. This leads to think if she does goes back, it will be no pairing, for at least on her side. Well, I hope Kishi takes his time here. Because it will be an odd ending since...well to me, KHR. Time will tell. For me, I got Bioshock to play over two weeks. Excuse me.

Kishi can easily make her scenes with Sasuke more "dramatic" than what Ino and Karin have had... which would make it look like Sakura's 'the real deal' or some other nonsense.

The problem is that the limitation of the manga chapter. First of all, this is the last chapter of the volume. I guess he's really into the whole volume equals a purpose for each. The whole volume was the flashback and the key to answer. Second, they only got what, 17 pages, so if you combine with the first one, Kishi pretty much rushed the last 5-6 pages to get it done so the next ride with these guys will be exciting. So yeah, one thing I do hate about manga. That's just me.

I just think that if he wanted the audience to think "Well, it looks like SasuKarin has a real chance" then he would have done this moment much differently and given it more focus.

[James S Cassidy]

Hmm...I think for Sasuke, seeing Itachi again provided real closure and played a HUGE ROLE in bringing him back more to normal. Because from what I read, I sensed that Sasuke's hatred towards Konoha after he found out the truth was that of a child so angry that the entire world lied to him, that he was fooled into spending all these years into hating the older brother he had loved and looked up to all along. I bet he hated himself for not seeing the truth, that Itachi REALLY was the loving brother he was, and that he played a role in his death without ever being able to talk to him again. It really hurt Sasuke that he never got to reconcile with Itachi and that Itachi probably died knowing Sasuke hated him always.

I just really disagree that Naruto has to be the one playing the main role. I don't feel that Naruto did nothing, and I think he did enough already. His time with Sasuke in Team 7, his efforts to bring him back definitely played a part in making Sasuke still have that little bit of attachment to Konoha. I honestly felt it was UNREALISTIC that Sasuke couldn't be redeemed or at least come to his senses UNLESS Naruto kicked his butt which the series seemed to be building up to. It makes Sasuke seem to static on his own, and Naruto too much of a messiah who has to rescue Sasuke on top of stopping Madara.

I really love how Kishi did it because it's a sense of "in the end, sometimes you can't force people to walk the path they want to or to save everyone. They make their own choices- and sometimes we can hope that there's still some good left in them." I really felt sorry for how Sasuke was manipulated by the Konoha elders, and lied to by Itachi. It would be a disservice if Sasuke's redemption had to come about only through other forms of coercion (Naruto dragging him back) or manipulation. That is why I much prefer this- because Naruto's ideals are put in the context of a much more universal idea that Hashirama, Kagami AND Shisui shared, instead of him seeming like a ninja jesus without whom NO ONE has these concepts.

Yeah see, I would be more accepting of this if Sasuke didn't have that one chapter of him being a complete psychopath, killing Karin, and laughing maniacally in Naruto's face or all the times when people told Naruto "I have put faith in you to save Sasuke." Both Itachi and Sakura said this to him. Yet, we have Itachi making a greater impact than Naruto ever could. While it does make sense and I agree it does, Kishi should have not made it seem like only Naruto could redeem Sasuke. Especially when there are some people who actually tried to change Sasuke.

That's my problem. You don't put a character on a pedestal and then break the pedestal down. You end up the characters expectation shattered which is what is happening here. He put Naruto on this pedestal saying "Only you can save Sasuke" and then the next moment have everyone BUT Naruto save Sasuke. This is also why people see Sasuke as the main character, not Naruto.

Naruto's ideals are put into the same context, but Naruto's ideals couldn't even put a hint in Sasuke's head? In fact, may of times it made him hate his old life more. That's what doesn't sit right with me.

If Kishi hadn't put Naruto on a pedestal like that, then I wouldn't think anything of it.

Oh and sorry, Thanks StriderC

Edited by James S Cassidy, 11 April 2013 - 03:12 AM.