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#48861 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 01:37 AM

Neji have to be sparring partner for Hinata every day , but hes not allowed to fight back or hit Hinata , he must hold back and became a punching bag for Hinata because of her kitten daddy is from head family and Neji is from slave family. Can you imagine that ? if you were in Neji's shoes ... plus Neji's dad have to be sacrifice to become a fake scapegoat to protect the head family.

 

And then this , i think a lot of people already said that Neji is a prodigy genius and he knows this. So i don't understand what the difference if Naruto said that hes a genius ? why Naruto words have so much power compare to other who already said hes a genius ? (Oh yeah i forgot hes a god of Talk no Jutsu). Naruto also promise that he will free / change the hyuga once he become hokage. If i were Neji i can't die no matter what until i see him fulfill his promise. And voila ... he didn't fulfill his promise , i read from tumblr that naruto really haven't change the hyuga corrupt system.

 

In my opinion Neji has zero reason to give his life to protect Naruto and Hinata based on those 2 reason. Kishimoto is not fit to be an author because he can be persuade/coerce by pressure by his editor , money , and popularity. He should be an artist though because his art is good.

even his art started going in the Friday Morning Trash Can. He lost all passion for his story and art, and that is because he couldn't do it the way he wanted to do it.


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#48862 Kasimir38

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 02:21 PM

Neji was always nice to Hinata? He worshipped her?

What about Sasuke? He told Hinata to shut up. How is he even alive.

 

Honestly, instead of killing of Neji they could have killed Hinata. Not because I hate her or anything, but because her stalking would somehow serve a purpose and Naruto would feel terrible because she is so shy and weak. His raging would be much more appropriate and it would add some drama.

And if not Hinata, then how about someone related to the main story line? Sasuke, for example?

Or nobody?
Or everyone?
I don't understand why killing off Neji seemed to be ok.


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#48863 jak123

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 02:32 PM

Neji was always nice to Hinata? He worshipped her?

What about Sasuke? He told Hinata to shut up. How is he even alive.

 

Honestly, instead of killing of Neji they could have killed Hinata. Not because I hate her or anything, but because her stalking would somehow serve a purpose and Naruto would feel terrible because she is so shy and weak. His raging would be much more appropriate and it would add some drama.

And if not Hinata, then how about someone related to the main story line? Sasuke, for example?

Or nobody?
Or everyone?
I don't understand why killing off Neji seemed to be ok.

I think all of the people who died during the Pein Arc should have stayed dead.


Edited by jak123, 02 May 2018 - 02:33 PM.


#48864 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 06:11 PM

Neji was always nice to Hinata? He worshipped her?
What about Sasuke? He told Hinata to shut up. How is he even alive.
 
Honestly, instead of killing of Neji they could have killed Hinata. Not because I hate her or anything, but because her stalking would somehow serve a purpose and Naruto would feel terrible because she is so shy and weak. His raging would be much more appropriate and it would add some drama.
And if not Hinata, then how about someone related to the main story line? Sasuke, for example?
Or nobody?
Or everyone?
I don't understand why killing off Neji seemed to be ok.


They probably could have killed Hinata right in front of Naruto, and someone would have to nudge him In the side and remind him to be sad about it... and he still wouldn't be sad about it.


Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 05 May 2018 - 10:42 PM.

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#48865 KClaws_2

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 11:14 PM

No guys, that's not the real reason behind that. The REAL reason why Neji gotten the boot was someone worked in SP complained about Neji's character on the official Naruto blog, especially how he treated Hinata back in Part 1/filler (something like, "I didn't like how he attacked her boobs"). Gotten bad to the point that the person possibly told this to the writers and to Masashi's team for the manga as a "suggestion". 

 

This pissed off not only the regular Japanese fans but also NejiHina fans.

WHAT!?

Good lord, no, no, NO! How was this guy NOT fired!? I'm not saying this for his opinion, it is the fact he couldn't keep it to himself! I'd like to think if a worker in any other animation studio did this, they would be fired!

It also goes to show that Hinata fans cannot take anything SLIGHTLY negative happening to Hinata. I remember watching the SD episode where Akamaru peed on Hinata (I now wish he would do more). The comments were flooded with sayings like "Hinata didn't deserve that." They have no sense of humor, and they treat HInata like the Virgin Mary. It's just...I'm at a loss for words.

And the fact that so many dropped the manga because of her boobs just shows they never really cared for her as a character. Hell, she's not even close to the most attractive anime character out there (I guess that's subjective, but given what else I've seen, there's definitely better NSFW material out there).

 

Yeah, I think "shipping" is one of the worst things to happen to anime, hell fandoms in general. I don't like NaruSaku because they are my "ship", I like them because they make sense to the story that I read for 15 years. Any sort of competent writer would have had Sakura move on from her childish crush and fall for someone who has always been there for her. With most "shippers" you can't have any sort of discussion. I was reading this one webtoon and the comments were riddled with shipping comments and when I pointed out something about one of those characters being a hypocrite, I got downvoted to hell. 

Ditto. They care more about the characters sleeping together than the characters themselves. 

 

It just goes to show just how much SP interfered with the writing, and the lengths they would go to for their Hinata-sama. They derailed so many characters, butchered the characterization of others, push questionable morals, make the hero a joke and a scumbag who accomplished nothing, kill other characters, all to make Hinata the heroine, The fact there are so many fans calling this out says enough.

What's more extraordinary is how Kishimoto went along with this. He just has this NEED to please EVERYBODY and shows poor judgement when reacting to any criticism, no matter how stupid or trivial. Let's not forget the youtube "anime-community", where he actually interacted with Sawyer. In his shoes, I wouldn't give a damn what some gaijin thought of my work; I'd just be thankful they're paying attention.

Sub-par manga adaptations have been done before, but the mangaka never retconned their stories to fit the anime. They just did their own thing. I recall hearing the author of Tokyo Ghoul tried to give SP suggestions on how to properly adapt the manga, but they didn't listen, which miffed him. Kishimoto should have just done the same, especially if he wanted to end the manga after Pain.



#48866 rocci

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 11:25 PM

People saw NejiHina as a thing? I personally didn't. If he had survived, he probably would have ended up with TenTen. Though you could have had him and Hinata working together to run the Hyuuga Clan.

If ns happen.
I think tenten Will pair up with Lee, because Chinese sterotype.

Neji Will most likely end up with random Hyuga girl and Hinata Will pair up with kiba.

@kcclaw
Kishi doesn't have the guts like most big name Mangaka. I think the reason that happen because how most of his success in Naruto directly or indirectly come from his old editor, yahagi. Maybe he thought other opinion is important.

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Hinata is a freak of nature in the sense that how can she become popular despite having a supporting role and lack screen time.

Edited by rocci, 02 May 2018 - 11:34 PM.


#48867 Derock

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 03:19 AM

WHAT!?

Good lord, no, no, NO! How was this guy NOT fired!? I'm not saying this for his opinion, it is the fact he couldn't keep it to himself! I'd like to think if a worker in any other animation studio did this, they would be fired!

It also goes to show that Hinata fans cannot take anything SLIGHTLY negative happening to Hinata. I remember watching the SD episode where Akamaru peed on Hinata (I now wish he would do more). The comments were flooded with sayings like "Hinata didn't deserve that." They have no sense of humor, and they treat HInata like the Virgin Mary. It's just...I'm at a loss for words.

And the fact that so many dropped the manga because of her boobs just shows they never really cared for her as a character. Hell, she's not even close to the most attractive anime character out there (I guess that's subjective, but given what else I've seen, there's definitely better NSFW material out there).

 

Ditto. They care more about the characters sleeping together than the characters themselves. 

 

What's more extraordinary is how Kishimoto went along with this. He just has this NEED to please EVERYBODY and shows poor judgement when reacting to any criticism, no matter how stupid or trivial. Let's not forget the youtube "anime-community", where he actually interacted with Sawyer. In his shoes, I wouldn't give a damn what some gaijin thought of my work; I'd just be thankful they're paying attention.

Sub-par manga adaptations have been done before, but the mangaka never retconned their stories to fit the anime. They just did their own thing. I recall hearing the author of Tokyo Ghoul tried to give SP suggestions on how to properly adapt the manga, but they didn't listen, which miffed him. Kishimoto should have just done the same, especially if he wanted to end the manga after Pain.

 

^This. All of this.

 

On the third paragraph, that's exactly what had happened. As a mangaka or a regular author, you are supposed to follow your own ideas, plots, etc. to the audience whom are engage with the story and willing to bring in profit to support. You can accept some outside input BUT not all of them, including the audiences. But in this case, as other members here had said, Masashi was going through different editors too, whom were willing to share their input and advice which eventually tarnished the franchise. All sides to blame in the end though: Masashi for not paying attention, the editors, Studio Pierrot and the executives at Shueisha for somehow thought it would had been the "best" idea to change heroines based on fan AND inside input at the last minute.


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#48868 Kasimir38

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 06:27 AM

It's pretty hard to do your own thing if there are so many people against it,- especially if you are somehow dependent on them. I just recently watched a youtube video about anime culture and haters and I felt sorry for all those creators trying to do something fun and inspiring and so many people spitting on them. I agree, Kishi could have handled that better, but I still feel sorry for him.


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#48869 KClaws_2

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 07:32 AM


@kcclaw
Kishi doesn't have the guts like most big name Mangaka. I think the reason that happen because how most of his success in Naruto directly or indirectly come from his old editor, yahagi. Maybe he thought other opinion is important.

 

It ties in to what he said in the interview where he revealed he had virtually NO input on the original story. At least with Yahigi, it seems there was some consistency in the story and something of a plan. When different people came in...that's when things got out of hand. 

 

 

^This. All of this.

 

On the third paragraph, that's exactly what had happened. As a mangaka or a regular author, you are supposed to follow your own ideas, plots, etc. to the audience whom are engage with the story and willing to bring in profit to support. You can accept some outside input BUT not all of them, including the audiences. But in this case, as other members here had said, Masashi was going through different editors too, whom were willing to share their input and advice which eventually tarnished the franchise. All sides to blame in the end though: Masashi for not paying attention, the editors, Studio Pierrot and the executives at Shueisha for somehow thought it would had been the "best" idea to change heroines based on fan AND inside input at the last minute.

They're also not paying attention to general trends. The Tsundere almost always gets bashed in most anime, but the authors keep them as the heroine. And you know what? They've all done fine. Chi-chi is called a crazy kitten, but Toriyama stuck with it. DragonBall is still one of the biggest anime franchises today, and she is not making it suffer. Asuka's got her haters. Evangelion is still considered a classic. Akane has hers, Ranma 1/2 is still considered one of Takahashi's better works. Erina got a lot of hate in Shokugeki no Soma. People are still reading it.

My point is the haters of Tsunderes are the MOST VOCAL. People like us who watched several anime know the trend, understand the whole thing is a gag, and we accept it for what it is.

 

It's pretty hard to do your own thing if there are so many people against it,- especially if you are somehow dependent on them. I just recently watched a youtube video about anime culture and haters and I felt sorry for all those creators trying to do something fun and inspiring and so many people spitting on them. I agree, Kishi could have handled that better, but I still feel sorry for him.

Again, haters are the most VOCAL. People balk at the change in trends, and it all comes down to your ability to handle the writing and give a good pay-off in the end.

 

Unfortunately, if you're working for a business, that can be hard to do. They see trends, and order their writers to tell their stories a certain way. But as the guy from Terrible Writing Advice says, following trends is dangerous: they don't last forever.

 

Right now, it feels like although Naruto had enough fans to keep it going, it feels like SP grossly underestimated how much money the shippers would bring. The Last did well because of the false advertisement and the Japanese fans being confused from the ending. Those not into the shipping were disappointed with what they got. With Boruto, they at least gave the SNS fans something to enjoy, at least with the movie. Hinata's change in character is proof that the whole thing with NH was NOT what the true fans wanted back then.



#48870 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 03:27 PM

 

^This. All of this.

 

On the third paragraph, that's exactly what had happened. As a mangaka or a regular author, you are supposed to follow your own ideas, plots, etc. to the audience whom are engage with the story and willing to bring in profit to support. You can accept some outside input BUT not all of them, including the audiences. But in this case, as other members here had said, Masashi was going through different editors too, whom were willing to share their input and advice which eventually tarnished the franchise. All sides to blame in the end though: Masashi for not paying attention, the editors, Studio Pierrot and the executives at Shueisha for somehow thought it would had been the "best" idea to change heroines based on fan AND inside input at the last minute.

 

We also can't forget to blame the NaruHina fans who helped influence stuff too and not just who we do gotta blame for all of this too, Derock. It is a massive bitter cycle that has made the ending of Naruto.



#48871 griff142

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 03:56 PM

We also can't forget to blame the NaruHina fans who helped influence stuff too and not just who we do gotta blame for all of this too, Derock. It is a massive bitter cycle that has made the ending of Naruto.


The only way to have fan input into making a series, is if the author allows the story to be open for fans to add stuff like pairings and etc. When that happens the author could do a poll on who should get with who then they could have the story they want. With Naruto though, that wasn't the case at all and other shounen manga was the same way. Kishi was making a story that was planned for years and he had a set path for the journey that he was taking us. When you force to make changes for a story that took years of planning, then the changes could contradict the main plot and also could add confusing plot points that shouldn't have been there in the first place. Naruto became a contradicting mess when those changes happened at the end and the story is forever tainted now.

#48872 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 04:13 PM

 

^This. All of this.

 

On the third paragraph, that's exactly what had happened. As a mangaka or a regular author, you are supposed to follow your own ideas, plots, etc. to the audience whom are engage with the story and willing to bring in profit to support. You can accept some outside input BUT not all of them, including the audiences. But in this case, as other members here had said, Masashi was going through different editors too, whom were willing to share their input and advice which eventually tarnished the franchise. All sides to blame in the end though: Masashi for not paying attention, the editors, Studio Pierrot and the executives at Shueisha for somehow thought it would had been the "best" idea to change heroines based on fan AND inside input at the last minute.

This is why I get annoyed when SO many fanfics I read have polls at the end of their chapter(s) asking who people want paired, what power(s) a character will have, and so on rather than just doing what they want.


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#48873 griff142

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 06:25 PM

This is why I get annoyed when SO many fanfics I read have polls at the end of their chapter(s) asking who people want paired, what power(s) a character will have, and so on rather than just doing what they want.


Oh yeah I understand that. I noticed alot of times too that the writers who do that are usually people biased for NH in Naruto fanfiction. So, when they do make a poll they are very anti NS in their options.

#48874 Kasimir38

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 10:48 AM

Writing a certain plot simply because people wont complain feels odd. What are books, mangas and movies for? To surprise, because everyone likes something "old but new". And not: Your order has arrived. Please rate me nice. THx.


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#48875 Yyubie

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 02:54 PM

Writing a certain plot simply because people wont complain feels odd. What are books, mangas and movies for? To surprise, because everyone likes something "old but new". And not: Your order has arrived. Please rate me nice. THx.

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#48876 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 03:09 PM

The power of money , so horrific it can corrupt a lot of human mind.

 

And the power of fans who think that it's gotta be their way or the highway, which is dumb as hell nonetheless.



#48877 jak123

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 05:04 PM

Writing a certain plot simply because people wont complain feels odd. What are books, mangas and movies for? To surprise, because everyone likes something "old but new". And not: Your order has arrived. Please rate me nice. THx.

That's one of the reasons I hate the word "cliche". Because even the most "cliched" thing that's been used many times can be good if written properly. Naruto was straight forwards in its romance. Sakura was slowly falling in love with Naruto while getting over her childish crush of Sasuke. Only retarded people would think all that development and chemistry Naruto and Sakura have is a "red herring".



#48878 catsi563

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 05:14 PM

Honestly I don't think I'm gonna bash Kishimoto anymore over this. the impression I get over the whole thing was that the man was just plain tired and quite frankly sick of the editorial intereference over the matter and hence the whole Hinata Hinata whats with Hinata thing at that one interview,

 

I think he basically saw the writing on the wall and just gave up the ghost wrote a crap ending that gave editorial what it wanted using characters hed already planned for a different truer ending and washed his hands of the whole affair


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#48879 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 08:35 PM

Writing a certain plot simply because people wont complain feels odd. What are books, mangas and movies for? To surprise, because everyone likes something "old but new". And not: Your order has arrived. Please rate me nice. THx.

Not to mention that it makes such fanfics pretty predictable most of the time. Not a whole lot of NH fanfics I've read actually seemed really try to do anything THAT different from The Last - Naruto just magically suddenly "realizing" about Hinatatas and falling for her.

The fewer decent ones usually started years before the start of the main series, like Naruto happening to come across Hinatatas' kidnapping attempt by Kumo and stopping it (without anyone getting killed) thus changing events (even better ones actually maintaining that ripple effect too, like without Hizashi needing to be sacrificed, Neji doesn't turn into a douchebag and such), then building up an actual friendship from there, and even developing it by showing things up to the start of the main series rather than "time skip" and them just magically knowing what "true love" is and "knowing" that the other is their soulmate and crap like that.


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#48880 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 03:43 AM

it's funny to me that it was Naruto who had the most genuine and truest love in the series, and yet THAT is the love people want to say was a joke and was the crush, while they claim Hinata and Sakura-Chan's "love" was real when those were the childish crushes all along. Like I said, I feel sorry for Naruto the most in the whole thing, and I want him to get the ending he truly deserved.


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