54216 replies to this topic

[Phantom_999]

Y'know, I'm gonna be bluntly honest and say that I never gave a crap about the Takashi/Rei/Saeko love triangle in the slightest; he could've been with either one of them and I would've been satisfied. In HoTD, the only pairing I was ever passionate about was Kouta and Saya, especially when they acted as pseudo-parents for Alice.
 
As for shipping itself,   I have a long list of anime couples over the years that were never realized in canon, so I can understand the fear and reluctance to continue that practice. But y'know what? As many times as I've been disappointed, I've also had my faith rewarded. For every NaruSaku and IchiRuki resolution that was taken away from me, I was given a Touken, Erekasa, NaLu, etc. So, even though I've been burned, it has done little to stymie my optimism when it comes to my personal couplings.  So, I'm still holding onto hope, because realistically, not every author is going to be a Kishimoto.

Oh yeah I wasn’t talking about preference, I just meant I did not like Rei’s attitude and accusations at all towards Takashi on the subject of her dead boyfriend but acts jealous of Saeko. It is just hypocrisy on her part

[Kagomaru]

 yeah I wasn’t talking about preference, I just meant I did not like Rei’s attitude and accusations at all towards Takashi on the subject of her dead boyfriend but acts jealous of Saeko. It is just hypocrisy on her part

Oh, I agree with you on that one and it's especially callous of her to accuse him of using his death as an opportunity to be with her since Hisashi was his best friend. She may have said it out of a mixture of anger, grief and hysteria at thhe time(given their situation). but it was still a terrible thing to say after he was forced to bludgeon his best friend to death both for his sake as well as theirs. On another topic, did Kishimoto ever explain exactly what his sci-fi manga is supposed to be about?

Edited by Kagomaru, 06 April 2018 - 02:18 AM.

[Yyubie]

Does Black Cover have any romance?

I don't think it's a good idea to try to find romance in a long shonen adventure genre manga. Maybe it's just my imagination though ...

[DrK]

I don't think it's a good idea to try to find romance in a long shonen adventure genre manga. Maybe it's just my imagination though ...

Naruto is the only one I've seen that actually focused on it.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

I've never really been a big shipper in general. More that, if a series just so happens to be about or involves romance, then I usually support whichever pairings the narrative and character development logically supports (more). Of course, it doesn't mean that I couldn't see other potential pairings working either if, again, there's enough evidence to support them, but I'm not someone to plant my flag into one "true" pairing, chain myself to it, and refuse to move from it when anyone who believes otherwise comes along.

Though, this also means that there may be pairings out there that a lot of people seem to like, but that I just don't get why because of the lack of narrative and development support in the series itself, like Heero/Relena in Gundam Wing or Kira/Lacus in Gundam SEED and such (and it doesn't help that most of the answers I get involve saying that they "look good/cute together").
 

Oh yeah I wasn’t talking about preference, I just meant I did not like Rei’s attitude and accusations at all towards Takashi on the subject of her dead boyfriend but acts jealous of Saeko. It is just hypocrisy on her part

 

 

Oh, I agree with you on that one and it's especially callous of her to accuse him of using his death as an opportunity to be with her since Hisashi was his best friend. She may have said it out of a mixture of anger, grief and hysteria at thhe time(given their situation). but it was still a terrible thing to say after he was forced to bludgeon his best friend to death both for his sake as well as theirs. On another topic, did Kishimoto ever explain exactly what his sci-fi manga is supposed to be about?

Yeah, Rei constantly came off as simply using Takashi as both a convenient rebound and a security blanket, and as far as I recall from what I've seen of the manga, she never even once thanked him or showed any appreciation of the fact that, when the zombies had hit the school, she was the very first person Takashi thought about and went to rescue. Some might accuse Saeko of also using Takashi like a security blanket, but the big difference is that not only did she keep what happened in the past inside until she actually told Takashi about it (which shows trust on her part), but it was Takashi himself who offered himself to be used by her as basically her anchor and she very clearly showed thanks and appreciation for it while also having shown respect for him as a person up to that point, and so the two actually feel like equals.

[griff142]

I've never really been a big shipper in general. More that, if a series just so happens to be about or involves romance, then I usually support whichever pairings the narrative and character development logically supports (more). Of course, it doesn't mean that I couldn't see other potential pairings working either if, again, there's enough evidence to support them, but I'm not someone to plant my flag into one "true" pairing, chain myself to it, and refuse to move from it when anyone who believes otherwise comes along.
Though, this also means that there may be pairings out there that a lot of people seem to like, but that I just don't get why because of the lack of narrative and development support in the series itself, like Heero/Relena in Gundam Wing or Kira/Lacus in Gundam SEED and such (and it doesn't help that most of the answers I get involve saying that they "look good/cute together").
 

 
 


Yeah, Rei constantly came off as simply using Takashi as both a convenient rebound and a security blanket, and as far as I recall from what I've seen of the manga, she never even once thanked him or showed any appreciation of the fact that, when the zombies had hit the school, she was the very first person Takashi thought about and went to rescue. Some might accuse Saeko of also using Takashi like a security blanket, but the big difference is that not only did she keep what happened in the past inside until she actually told Takashi about it (which shows trust on her part), but it was Takashi himself who offered himself to be used by her as basically her anchor and she very clearly showed thanks and appreciation for it while also having shown respect for him as a person up to that point, and so the two actually feel like equals.

I think with NH it goes beyond than they just look cute together. People were sympathetic with her character because they had something similar happen to them, so they try to live through her and a way fulfill their dreams which is selfish. They tried to make her character more than it was supposed to be. A comical moe character that so happened to have a crush with the hero but she was supposed to move on but didn't because the fanbase and SP wouldn't allow it to happen.

[jak123]

Naruto is the only one I've seen that actually focused on it.

There are a few that have done it successfully. Though shounen romances tend to be alot shorter.

[griff142]

There are a few that have done it successfully. Though shounen romances tend to be alot shorter.

That is true, so it doesn't influence the main plot of the anime/ manga too much. A romance in an shounen manga or anime is usually the cherry on top of a good story and it is not supposed to be the icing holding the cake/plot together.

[KClaws_2]

I've never really been a big shipper in general. More that, if a series just so happens to be about or involves romance, then I usually support whichever pairings the narrative and character development logically supports (more). Of course, it doesn't mean that I couldn't see other potential pairings working either if, again, there's enough evidence to support them, but I'm not someone to plant my flag into one "true" pairing, chain myself to it, and refuse to move from it when anyone who believes otherwise comes along.

Though, this also means that there may be pairings out there that a lot of people seem to like, but that I just don't get why because of the lack of narrative and development support in the series itself, like Heero/Relena in Gundam Wing or Kira/Lacus in Gundam SEED and such (and it doesn't help that most of the answers I get involve saying that they "look good/cute together").
 

 

Back then, I just kind of went with what Gundam Wing did, though I really hate how they portrayed them in the manga. In the anime, Relina mostly came off as compassionate towards Hero. Manga, she was outright insane to give the current Sakura a run for her money. Still, HeroRelina has more dignity towards the heroine than SS. Though I do realize now that a lot of things about Gundam Wing don't hold up.

 

As for KiraLacus, yeah, it kind of did come out of nowhere, much like Lacus' character change halfway through. Still, it was a step up from KiraFllay. I don't know if there were any original plans for her character, but she was basically the Sakura fans THINK they hate. She was already prejudiced against coordinators and blamed Kira for her Dad's death. These could have been overcome with good writing and time, but her sleeping with Kira and manipulating him to fight until he dies was the moment I was "F*** this kitten." 

 

But I will give you this: KiraXLacus RUINED Seed Destiny

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Kakashi also had a role in inflating Sasuke's ego by taking him aside and training him solely, while leaving Naruto and Sakura to their own devices. Kakashi obviously didn't consider that teaching Sasuke an A-Rank Jutsu (emphasizing that it was a technique that only he could accomplish due to his Sharingan) would only magnify Sasuke's sense of self-importance...and would inevitably lead to it crashing and exacerbating Sasuke's inferiority complex and jealousy when he lost to Gaara, while Naruto "The Loser" prevailed.  If Kakashi actually put into practice what he preached about teamwork beyond the mission in Wave and actually tried to touch base with Sasuke instead focusing only on his potential, Sasuke may not have convinced himself that friends were just a crutch and hindrance.

 

Yeah, and it's all that because Kakashi didn't see his team as themselves, but as reflections of himself (Sasuke), Obito (Naruto), and Rin (Sakura), and this could have also been done before Jiraiya asked Kakashi to allow him to "train" Naruto.

 

It's because of Kakashi's elitist attitude and his inability to see and help influence the potential of his whole team that he failed big time as a teacher. Even how he was with wanting to rush them into the Chunin Exams when it was clear they weren't ready for it, and also how a lot of times, he looked down on Naruto just because he wasn't a genius ninja, in spite of the fact Naruto's ability to improvise and adapt and learn is what allowed him to do so much, like when he went and did the Naruto Uzumaki Barrage just from once seeing Sasuke's Lion's Barrage, and using it with what he had, in spite of the double standard that Kakashi had when praising Sasuke for the Lion's Barrage, yet not being impressed with Naruto when he did the Naruto Uzumaki Barrage.

 

And then we also see Kakashi looking down on Naruto when it comes to training him to learn his elemental chakra just because he doesn't get the basics of chakra manipulation or the more complex matters of the Shadow Clone Jutsu. Seriously, a lot of times too, like when he stopped Naruto from ranting about what happened to Lee and other things, he tried to make Naruto him, but Iruka said it best to Kakashi that Naruto was NOT him, and that he needed to see that, but he couldn't.

[griff142]

Yeah, and it's all that because Kakashi didn't see his team as themselves, but as reflections of himself (Sasuke), Obito (Naruto), and Rin (Sakura), and this could have also been done before Jiraiya asked Kakashi to allow him to "train" Naruto.
 
It's because of Kakashi's elitist attitude and his inability to see and help influence the potential of his whole team that he failed big time as a teacher. Even how he was with wanting to rush them into the Chunin Exams when it was clear they weren't ready for it, and also how a lot of times, he looked down on Naruto just because he wasn't a genius ninja, in spite of the fact Naruto's ability to improvise and adapt and learn is what allowed him to do so much, like when he went and did the Naruto Uzumaki Barrage just from once seeing Sasuke's Lion's Barrage, and using it with what he had, in spite of the double standard that Kakashi had when praising Sasuke for the Lion's Barrage, yet not being impressed with Naruto when he did the Naruto Uzumaki Barrage.
 
And then we also see Kakashi looking down on Naruto when it comes to training him to learn his elemental chakra just because he doesn't get the basics of chakra manipulation or the more complex matters of the Shadow Clone Jutsu. Seriously, a lot of times too, like when he stopped Naruto from ranting about what happened to Lee and other things, he tried to make Naruto him, but Iruka said it best to Kakashi that Naruto was NOT him, and that he needed to see that, but he couldn't.

I think that applies to Sakura as well. Kakashi wasn't going to train her to her fullest potential like Tsunade would. Kakashi was spoiling Sasuke to where he always felt entitled to all the training. Kakashi did fail big time and the irony is that he wanted to avoid a repeat from his squad but tragedy struck again when Sasuke left with Orchimaru. You can say he helped push him towards down that path.

[Phantom_999]

I don't entirely disagree, but I think what is being overlooked here is that Sasuke was also a little b*&ch for not getting his way, which was power to kill Itachi, so that is also why he ran off with Orochimaru. Kakashi didn't really stroke Sasuke's ego, Sasuke had plenty of ego to begin with and it was punctured with seeing Naruto's progress and having Itachi rip him a new a-hole

Edited by Phantom_999, 06 April 2018 - 10:39 PM.

[griff142]

I don't entirely disagree, but I think what is being overlooked here is that Sasuke was also a little b*&ch for not getting his way, which was power to kill Itachi, so that is also why he ran off with Orochimaru. Kakashi didn't really stroke Sasuke's ego, Sasuke had plenty of Ego to begin with and it was punctured with seeing Naruto's progress and having Itachi rip him a new a-hole

I liked that last sentence there. Maybe Kakashi didn't fully stroke Sasuke's ego but you can't deny that he was Kakashi's favorite at least in the beginning. If it wasn't for the Sannin like Jirayia and Tsunade training Naruto and Sakura then Sasuke would leagues ahead of them, which would hinder the team.

Edited by griff142, 06 April 2018 - 06:39 PM.

[jak123]

I liked that last sentence there. Maybe Kakashi didn't fully stroke Sasuke's ego but you can't deny that he was Kakashi's favorite at least Kakashi's favorite at least in the beginning. If it wasn't for the Sannin like Jirayia and Tsunade training Naruto and Sakura then Sasuke would leagues ahead of them, which would hinder the team.

Just goes to show how terrible of a teacher Kakashi was.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I think that applies to Sakura as well. Kakashi wasn't going to train her to her fullest potential like Tsunade would. Kakashi was spoiling Sasuke to where he always felt entitled to all the training. Kakashi did fail big time and the irony is that he wanted to avoid a repeat from his squad but tragedy struck again when Sasuke left with Orchimaru. You can say he helped push him towards down that path.

 

Agreed, Griff, and all because he thought he had Sasuke figured out, but he didn't see how revenge was all Sasuke had, since really it was also about Sasuke wanting to prove himself to be Itachi's better as much as it was to avenge the Uchiha Clan.

[ultranx]

You may be right but what makes you think trump would keep it since he's the one who made pai chairman. Plus pai is being investigate in the fcc. And that it's a 50 -50 split to decide that. That's what I thought to not everyone can afford the internet if those charges happen which would lose money for Verizon and other companies like them.

actually no, he didn't make pai chairman, pai was part of the obama administration, not trump's. but I'm not gonna get into politics here, point is, internet is most likely not in danger.

Edited by ultranx, 06 April 2018 - 07:41 PM.

[Kagomaru]

 

Agreed, Griff, and all because he thought he had Sasuke figured out, but he didn't see how revenge was all Sasuke had, since really it was also about Sasuke wanting to prove himself to be Itachi's better as much as it was to avenge the Uchiha.

And he did nothing to assuage the escalating tension between Sasuke and Naruto that followed after Orochimaru's invasion, even after it reached its crescendo i.e. the hospital rooftop battle.

[Kagomaru]

Just goes to show how terrible of a teacher Kakashi was.

Yup.

[Yyubie]

I agree with bryon.

I mean as a teacher you know your team lack teamwork , still under develop in terms of communication and they are very weak , i mean seriously Kakashi haven't teach them water walking ?? , team 7 is extremely lacking the basic needed to enter chunning exam. Plus he knows how dangerous that exam is and there's a lot of rumor and warning already that Orochimaru is on the move and tension between konoha and sunagakure is high. I don't know what the F is he thinking , team 7 going into chunnin exam with only tree/wall walking as their weapon ? . The biggest irony and joke for me is just after Naruto vs Sasuke on that hospital roof , Kakashi said this to Jiraya "Are you the one who teach rasengan to Naruto ? even if it's for countermeasure for Akatsuki i think it's a bit too soon for him to learn it , if he mess up he could kill Sasuke" ..... i was like WTF !? You should say that to yourself in the mirror!! You teach Chidori to this underage unstable uchiha kid that clearly stated that his dream is revenge to kill itachi and you know that dark path of revenge yourself better than anyone ?!?!?!?

 

And voila .... it was revealed just after Sasuke killed Danzou and Kakashi said it himself when hes about to fight him:

 

I haven't read this chapter and wow ... it was so different from the anime. Back then i only watch the anime. In the anime this is what Kakashi said :

"No matter what Orochimaru did to you he still your favorite student isn't third hokage , the agony when you have to face him in battle and killed by him"

 

Bottom line is the ammount of favoritism Sasuke get is insane , almost every main character have to kiss his feet it really makes me gonna threw up.

Edited by Yyubie, 06 April 2018 - 09:38 PM.

[Kagomaru]

I agree with bryon.

I mean as a teacher you know your team lack teamwork , still under develop in terms of communication and they are very weak , i mean seriously Kakashi haven't teach them water walking ?? , team 7 is extremely lacking the basic needed to enter chunning exam. Plus he knows how dangerous that exam is and there's a lot of rumor and warning already that Orochimaru is on the move and tension between konoha and sunagakure is high. I don't know what the F is he thinking , team 7 going into chunnin exam with only tree/wall walking as their weapon ? . The biggest irony and joke for me is just after Naruto vs Sasuke on that hospital roof , Kakashi said this to Jiraya "Are you the one who teach rasengan to Naruto ? even if it's for countermeasure for Akatsuki i think it's a bit too soon for him to learn it , if he mess up he could kill Sasuke" ..... i was like WTF !? You should say that to yourself in the mirror!! You teach Chidori to this underage unstable uchiha kid that clearly stated that his dream is revenge to kill itachi and you know that dark path of revenge yourself better than anyone ?!?!?!?

 

And voila .... it was revealed just after Sasuke killed Danzou and Kakashi said it himself when hes about to fight him:

 

I haven't read this chapter and wow ... it was so different from the anime. Back then i only watch the anime. In the anime this is what Kakashi said :

"No matter what Orochimaru did to you he still your favorite student isn't third hokage , the agony when you have to face him in battle and killed by him"

 

Bottom line is the ammount of favoritism Sasuke get is insane , almost every main character have to kiss his feet it really makes me gonna threw up.

And yet, some fans wonder why we ask the question:"Why isn't this series named 'Sasuke'?"