54216 replies to this topic

[jak123]

 

Yup, and like I said before, Goku was dead. He couldn't just roam as a soul in the world of the living. Bojack and Broly were desperate times, which call for desperate measures. Besides, he took the chance of being able to come to Earth for 24 hours. 

 

Sasuke was not bound by anything. And if he was, he couldn't visit once? There are 4380 days in 12 years, if we're not taking leap days into account. Sasuke couldn't visit even once in all those days? It's so ridiculous. He doesn't even write to Sakura. Not once. It's utterly ridiculous.

It just makes me so sad for Sakura's character. She's so OOC now. She gets neglected for years and years, but then acts like a squealing fangirl when he comes home once in a blue moon. That's not real love at all. If you were to tell me Sasuke was cheating on her with Karin who has Sarada and then forced Sakura to raise his love child, I would not be surprised.

Edited by jak123, 13 March 2018 - 06:17 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

It just makes me so sad for Sakura's character. She's so OOC now. She gets neglected for years and years, but then acts like a squealing fangirl when he comes on. That's not real love at all. If you were to tell me Sasuke was cheating on her with Karin who has Sarada and then forced Sakura to raise his love child, I would not be surprised.

 

That's how I've seen it going too, Jak; Sasuke and Karin had Sarada, and Sasuke used Sakura's obsession for him to raise her while he was away so that Orochimaru wouldn't find out about Sarada and try to experiment on her, and that's why Sakura tried to dodge any questions about Sasuke from Sarada, like when she snapped when Sarada asked if she was really married to Sasuke, as well as the fact Karin has Sarada's umbilical cord, which the mother in Japanese culture keeps.

[griff142]

Yup, and like I said before, Goku was dead. He couldn't just roam as a soul in the world of the living. Bojack and Broly were desperate times, which call for desperate measures. Besides, he took the chance of being able to come to Earth for 24 hours. 
 
Sasuke was not bound by anything. And if he was, he couldn't visit once? There are 4380 days in 12 years, if we're not taking leap days into account. Sasuke couldn't visit even once in all those days? It's so ridiculous. He doesn't even write to Sakura. Not once. It's utterly ridiculous.

Sasuke comes off as a guy who made mistake with Sakura, so the best way was to avoid them for 12 years and he hoped he was forgot about. So when Sarada showed up he was like, crap I guess I got to be a dad now.

Edited by griff142, 13 March 2018 - 06:33 PM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

This is why a lot of NS fans don't even want NS to happen in the canon anymore because of how screwed up Kishi and SP made everyone, and for them to get together, it would more than likely require them to be even "worse" people since we know Hinatatas would never willingly let Boruto's dad go, and the whole pushed idea that Sakura would be a "terrible woman" if she moved on from Sasuke.

NH/SS may brag that their ships became canon, but NS can brag that even though it didn't become canon, at the same time, it remains untouched and pure in the long-run while NH/SS are big examples of how NOT to do relationships, both in media and in real life.

[winter-serenade]

It just makes me so sad for Sakura's character. She's so OOC now. She gets neglected for years and years, but then acts like a squealing fangirl when he comes home once in a blue moon. That's not real love at all. If you were to tell me Sasuke was cheating on her with Karin who has Sarada and then forced Sakura to raise his love child, I would not be surprised.

 

Lol, it's not even once in a blue moon. Blue moons happen every three years or so, and there are going to be 2 this year. It's pathetic when even an idiom can't match up with his utter neglect. No. It's not ridiculous or pathetic. It's sad. So sad I might even laugh because of how hopeless it is. Haven't felt this way in a while.

[Kagomaru]

I personally don't really care if Goku is bad father or not and to be honest to me he is not , or at least not as worse as Sasuke. First of all Goku is NOT HUMAN , he is an alien Saiyajin. So that's already one excuses that normal human lifestyle can't be fully apply to him. In saiyan culture if i remember when goku and other saiyan babies born they were graded by their rank or power level and then immediately send into planet , if the babies weak they send them into planet with weak inhabitant , Bardock and Goku's still unknown mom didn't even care about him. So for those who said Goku is a bad father i understand but to say that he is like Sasuke or worse i disagree.

 

Goku did not neglect his family , it's just that the villains is coming and so they have to prepare for battle , so i think it's bad time. We still see goku try to work time on time all thanks to Chichi leader assertive able to control him , we see Goku work in farm tending to crops / chore , try to get license to drive , attend on Gohan school internship though i know that some of that maybe filler. Though he sometimes complain that he might get rusty if he don't train but he did not sneak away when he can. He also train Gohan because he wants him to be strong fighter like him or better than him , but when he let Gohan fight Cell and saw him in pain and agony Piccolo words :"I don't understand why a father let his son to death , he maybe a super saiyan and stronger now but he still nothing more than a kid" instantly snap him out of it , Goku instantly after hearing that like "Kuririn give me a senzu!!" , he's basically like "What the F have i done to my son?".

 

I think there's a reason why Goku did not really train Goten that much because he knows that his kid have their life their own dream. And their family is poor we know Chichi has been using her father fortune and she said it's almost running out , thanks to Gohan smart at school and get scholarship + marrying billionaire daughter of Mister Satan , Videl they not really need to force Goku to work , Gohan alone is rich he works at big company. And i heard people wants Gohan to step up and take Goku's place because Goku need to retire ... i personally disagree , Goku is full saiyan DNA , Gohan is half breed. Gohan wants peaceful life while Goku to him fighting is like drugs he can't lived without. Goku is not a terrible father , is just that working like normal human and provide for family IS NOT IN HIS BLOOD/DNA he is an alien , but at least he tried to work. Unlike Sasuke COMPLETELY IGNORED AND ABANDON his family.

Actually,  Toriyama's Dragon Ball Minus manga one-shot(which takes place a month before the eradication of the Saiyans) revealed that Gine(Goku's mother) and his father loved both of their sons regardless of power level.  In fact, Gine is actually the person whom Goku and his sons inherited their kind and compassionate demeanor from. When Bardock had a bad omen that Frieza may turn against the Saiyans, he immediately talked to his wife about prepping Goku's space pod to leave for another planet so that he'd be safe. They were also the ones that gave his coordinates to Raditz so Raditz would take care of Goku until they themselves later arrived on Earth(as we know, that never happens). The manga retcons quite a bit of Bardock's special (particularly his attitude towards his son and Goku being sent to Earth well before Frieza's attack), but the mission that led to him gaining his precognition, the death of his team and his one-man rebellion against Frieza still occurred, according to Toriyama.

 

Also, Toriyama states that Bardock and Gine are unique because unlike most Saiyan couplings, they didn't mate for the mere sake of propagation but because they genuinely loved one another, which made them an irregularity in Saiyan society. And I definitely say that Bardock and Gine would be proud of the person Goku became if they ever had the chance to meet him, while Kushina and Minato would probably bow their heads in shame over what has happened to their son.

[griff142]

Actually,  Toriyama's Dragon Ball Minus manga one-shot(which takes place a month before the eradication of the Saiyans) revealed that Gine(Goku's mother) and his father loved both of their sons regardless of power level.  In fact, Gine is actually the person whom Goku and his sons inherited their kind and compassionate demeanor from. When Bardock had a bad omen that Frieza may turn against the Saiyans, he immediately talked to his wife about prepping Goku's space pod to leave for another planet so that he'd be safe. They were also the ones that gave his coordinates to Raditz so Raditz would take care of Goku until they themselves later arrived on Earth(as we know, that never happens). The manga retcons quite a bit of Bardock's special (particularly his attitude towards his son and Goku being sent to Earth well before Frieza's attack), but the mission that led to him gaining his precognition, the death of his team and his one-man rebellion against Frieza still occurred, according to Toriyama.
 
Also, Toriyama states that Bardock and Gine are unique because unlike most Saiyan couplings, they didn't mate for the mere sake of propagation but because they genuinely loved one another, which made them an irregularity in Saiyan society. And I definitely say that Bardock and Gine would be proud of the person Goku became if they ever had the chance to meet him, while Kushina and Minato would probably bow their heads in shame over what has happened to their son.

Minato would even question the crazy character change from his son and Kushina would have screaming at her son on why he didn't choose Sakura which is more like her. I have seen Hinata fans try to justify that she is more like Kushina. Ha ha right

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Minato would even question the crazy character change from his son and Kushina would have screaming at her son on why he didn't choose Sakura which is more like her. I have seen Hinata fans try to justify that she is more like Kushina. Ha ha right

 

Hinata fans also try to say she's more like Minato, but that's just as lame of an excuse.

[Yyubie]

Actually,  Toriyama's Dragon Ball Minus manga one-shot(which takes place a month before the eradication of the Saiyans) revealed that Gine(Goku's mother) and his father loved both of their sons regardless of power level.  In fact, Gine is actually the person whom Goku and his sons inherited their kind and compassionate demeanor from. When Bardock had a bad omen that Frieza may turn against the Saiyans, he immediately talked to his wife about prepping Goku's space pod to leave for another planet so that he'd be safe. They were also the ones that gave his coordinates to Raditz so Raditz would take care of Goku until they themselves later arrived on Earth(as we know, that never happens). The manga retcons quite a bit of Bardock's special (particularly his attitude towards his son and Goku being sent to Earth well before Frieza's attack), but the mission that led to him gaining his precognition, the death of his team and his one-man rebellion against Frieza still occurred, according to Toriyama.

 

Also, Toriyama states that Bardock and Gine are unique because unlike most Saiyan couplings, they didn't mate for the mere sake of propagation but because they genuinely loved one another, which made them an irregularity in Saiyan society. And I definitely say that Bardock and Gine would be proud of the person Goku became if they ever had the chance to meet him, while Kushina and Minato would probably bow their heads in shame over what has happened to their son.

WoW that was amazing and eye opening , i only know Bardock story base on his one only movie "Bardock the Father of Goku" , where he and his squad leading an attack against planet Kanasa which one villain in GT named Baby turn out to be from that planet seeking revenge. He saw baby Goku in the incubator once to check his power level and when he saw it's only 1 he said "Hmpp ... nothing special" and then he leave , based on that i thought that he really didn't care.

 

And thanks again i didn't know the name of Goku's mom until today from you. And yeah i have to agree i think Toriyama kind of retcon things in that novel. Is she still alive? i mean shes not seen during the destruction of saiyan planet and they keep her identity secret. I thought for sure Goku gonna meet her mom one day i believe she still alive. The good thing is even if it is retcon it retcon towards a good path , not becoming worse and worse like Naruto.

[Kagomaru]

WoW that was amazing and eye opening , i only know Bardock story base on his one only movie "Bardock the Father of Goku" , where he and his squad leading an attack against planet Kanasa which one villain in GT named Baby turn out to be from that planet seeking revenge. He saw baby Goku in the incubator once to check his power level and when he saw it's only 1 he said "Hmpp ... nothing special" and then he leave , based on that i thought that he really didn't care.

 

And thanks again i didn't know the name of Goku's mom until today from you. And yeah i have to agree i think Toriyama kind of retcon things in that novel. Is she still alive? i mean shes not seen during the destruction of saiyan planet and they keep her identity secret. I thought for sure Goku gonna meet her mom one day i believe she still alive. The good thing is even if it is retcon it retcon towards a good path , not becoming worse and worse like Naruto.

No, she unfortunately died on Planet Vegeta along with Bardock and the other Saiyans.  It's a shame since Goku would've loved meeting her, especially since he was left when such a negative impression about his family (and by extension, his race)after meeting his brother.

Edited by Kagomaru, 13 March 2018 - 09:30 PM.

[Kagomaru]

 

Hinata fans also try to say she's more like Minato, but that's just as lame of an excuse.

Yeah, I've read that bizarre line of thought before and it's still utterly laughable because of how desperate it sounds.

[griff142]

Hinata fans also try to say she's more like Minato, but that's just as lame of an excuse.

Anyway to justify as not only to believe she is the best "heroine" in the world, but also justify her very existence. When you think about if she was never in the story, things would really not change at all. Shows how irrelevant she is to the main plot.

Edited by griff142, 13 March 2018 - 09:39 PM.

[The Doctor forever]

Anyway to justify as not only to believe she is the best "heroine" in the world, but also justify her very existence. When you think about if she was never in the story, things would really not change at all. Shows how irrelevant she is to the main plot.

Oh agree I mean I have seen far better other Heroines than the so called great Hinata.

[tricksie]

Anyway to justify as not only to believe she is the best "heroine" in the world, but also justify her very existence. When you think about if she was never in the story, things would really not change at all. Shows how irrelevant she is to the main plot.

Exactly. To compare Hinata to Sakura, take each one out of the plot and see how much it changes.

 

With Hinata gone, very very very little changes. Some plot points don't happen the same, but the major arcs stay the same.

 

With Sakura gone, everything changes. Literally everything. Naruto does not set his sights on her, he doesn't work to impress her, he doesn't flip out to save her. And this is just in the first story arc. You couldn't have Naruto, the manga, without Sakura.

 

The only people who think Hinata is important are her fans. But she's not, she barely makes a difference in the hero's life. It's a fact.

[jak123]

Exactly. To compare Hinata to Sakura, take each one out of the plot and see how much it changes.

 

With Hinata gone, very very very little changes. Some plot points don't happen the same, but the major arcs stay the same.

 

With Sakura gone, everything changes. Literally everything. Naruto does not set his sights on her, he doesn't work to impress her, he doesn't flip out to save her. And this is just in the first story arc. You couldn't have Naruto, the manga, without Sakura.

 

The only people who think Hinata is important are her fans. But she's not, she barely makes a difference in the hero's life. It's a fact.

Seriously aside from the Pain thing, is she prominent anywhere else?

[griff142]

Seriously aside from the Pain thing, is she prominent anywhere else?

Well she had a part in the Chunin Exams where she fought her cousin Neji and tried stand up to him. Besides that though not really besides some sprinkles here and there.

[winter-serenade]

Exactly. To compare Hinata to Sakura, take each one out of the plot and see how much it changes.
 
With Hinata gone, very very very little changes. Some plot points don't happen the same, but the major arcs stay the same.
 
With Sakura gone, everything changes. Literally everything. Naruto does not set his sights on her, he doesn't work to impress her, he doesn't flip out to save her. And this is just in the first story arc. You couldn't have Naruto, the manga, without Sakura.
 
The only people who think Hinata is important are her fans. But she's not, she barely makes a difference in the hero's life. It's a fact.

Actually, Naruto isnt even alive without Sakura as early as the Forest of Death arc. During the encounter with Orochimaru, after he put the seal on him, Naruto was unconscious. He was high in the trees and was falling to the ground. He wouldve died had Sakura not thrown a kunai to stick his jacket to a tree.

Debatably he dies during the Zabuza arc. Either the Demon brothers or Zabuza attacks them, and Sakuras reflexes are fast enough to save him from most likely getting his head chopped clean off. Oh, but Sakura is useless...

[DrK]

Well, I did say debatedly. I think Paragus loved Broly at one point, before his desire to take revenge on King Vegeta consumed him. Paragus was a high ranking officer if I remember, so of course he'd have great loyalty to King Vegeta. To want to defy King Vegeta for the sake of his son? He knew he would get executed, but he still did it to keep Broly alive. Paragus even stayed with him when Broly punched his eye out. During the time surrounding the movie, he was a terrible father, but at the start, when Broly was a baby to in his early teens, he was decent.
 
As for Demon King Piccolo, didn't Piccolo himself choose to avenge his father? And besides, meeting Goku was the bet thing that happened to him. Even unintentionally, DK Piccolo is a better father.

DKP says something when he's shooting out the egg which always made me think that he was telling him to do what he ended up doing. But yeah I guess between DKP and Sasuke, I would rather have DKP for a father.
 
But that's an interesting perspective on Paragus. It's not clear if King Vegeta would have still killed Paragus even if Paragus hadn't stood by his son as he did. I always assumed that he still would have. But the thing that does it for me is the point about how if Paragus hadn't done that, it would have meant simply that he would have died, without changing anything for Broly. I guess it's possible that Broly needed Paragus to not become even more insane and retarded. Like he probably needed to learn how to talk and how to eat with utensils and kitten and Paragus would have provided that. I just don't see Sasuke betraying and trying to hurt Sarada, on PURPOSE (I realize he almost did so unintentionally) other than his horrible betrayal to begin with of her mother and her that will have consequences for the rest of her life. Hmm.

Edited by DrK, 14 March 2018 - 12:22 AM.

[griff142]

I just don't understand the hate of Sakura's character. She maybe a fangirl at the beginnig but she was changing. Sakura did beat up Naruto alot but she is a Tsundere character and she not the first to do this and she is not going to be the last. It is hypocritical of people who point this out but accept it from other characters. Honestly I would prefer a Tsundere than a Yandere, yes I am looking at you Mirai Nikki

[jak123]

I just don't understand the hate of Sakura's character. She maybe a fangirl at the beginnig but she was changing. Sakura did beat up Naruto alot but she is a Tsundere character and she not the first to do this and she is not going to be the last. It is hypocritical of people who point this out but accept it from other characters. Honestly I would prefer a Tsundere than a Yandere, yes I am looking at you Mirai Nikki

She was kind of annoying in the first arc, but she really came into her own in part 2. Most people seemed to like her, but then hated her when she did the fake confession to Naruto. Still even after that, Kishimoto continued to build them up, just to kitten the bed in the last few chapters.