54175 replies to this topic

[griff142]

Kishi is only one I have seen to do a 180 at the end of the story even with all the extra NH moments towards the end the manga it was still inevitable that Narusaku was the end game for 698 chapters. That last two was forced and ooc for everbody.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

We all know Masashi Kishimoto talks in an inconsistent way interview after interview on all his characters and not just Sakura. He said Sakura is the heroine in an interview and then Sakura is a side character in another interview.

 

Do not take Masashi Kishimoto seriously in his interviews till the day, if it ever comes, he acknowledges that NS was supposed to be the end game which every reader who is serious knows it is true. No need plenty of thought on this one.

 

And all manga in the world have the same development, and some less or much less, as NS for their main pairing.

 

Masashi Kishimoto knows that, we know that and everyone know that.

 

It's obvious like the noon day sun that NS was meant to be the canon pairing.

 

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Mods, can you please put this post anywhere on the home page or some place where every member and guest can read it ? Cause the obvious fact need to be always seen and heard for everyone. I'm really serious.

 

Agreed, T, especially considering it's obvious he's covering his ass because of Studio Pierrot basically being in charge now of what direction the Naruto franchise has been going in, which shows how much of a travesty things are.

 

 

There's not a lot of excuses for a lot of their scenes. The only one that's excusable is during the Kage Summit arc. Sasuke was kitten crazy. (Although interestingly enough, people use the same arc as evidence that SasuKarin is abusive, but thats none of my business...)

 

It was a lame excuse, considering that Sasuke had recognized Karin as the strongest kunoichi thanks to her abilities, and his learning a new way to disperse Amaterasu to protect her, which says a lot.

[jak123]

 

Agreed, T, especially considering it's obvious he's covering his ass because of Studio Pierrot basically being in charge now of what direction the Naruto franchise has been going in, which shows how much of a travesty things are.

 

 

 

It was a lame excuse, considering that Sasuke had recognized Karin as the strongest kunoichi thanks to her abilities, and his learning a new way to disperse Amaterasu to protect her, which says a lot.

What has he done for Sakura aside from giving her a child that she has to raise by herself?

[winter-serenade]

What has he done for Sakura aside from giving her a child that she has to raise by herself?

Come to think of it, I can’t think of any major turning point for her character that was solely based on Sasuke and Sasuke alone. During the forest of death scene when she cut her hair, she was thinking of Sasuke, Naruto, and Lee. When she asks to train with Tsunade, she has both Naruto and Sasuke on her mind. During the Kazekage arc when she’s trapped, she think of the promise she made to Naruto to help get Sasuke back together, thus strengthening her resolve. The list goes on.


Naruto, on the other hand... *cough* Bridge scene *cough*

[griff142]

Come to think of it, I can’t think of any major turning point for her character that was solely based on Sasuke and Sasuke alone. During the forest of death scene when she cut her hair, she was thinking of Sasuke, Naruto, and Lee. When she asks to train with Tsunade, she has both Naruto and Sasuke on her mind. During the Kazekage arc when she’s trapped, she think of the promise she made to Naruto to help get Sasuke back together, thus strengthening her resolve. The list goes on.
Naruto, on the other hand... *cough* Bridge scene *cough*

Exactly anything SS in the story was considered toxic and no amount of retcons could change that. Sakura matured through herself and wanting to support Naruto and if that is not love I don't know what is. To me that shows she didn't need Sasuke there at all. I will say again this pairing reminds to much of the crappy teen romance novels that are shown in the West. The girl trying to find the best parts to her bad boy. It doesn't fit in this story at all and goes against the original message but who cares right?

[jak123]

Exactly anything SS in the story was considered toxic and no amount of retcons could change that. Sakura matured through herself and wanting to support Naruto and if that is not love I don't know what is. To me that shows she didn't need Sasuke there at all. I will say again this pairing reminds to much of the crappy teen romance novels that are shown in the West. The girl trying to find the best parts to her bad boy. It doesn't fit in this story at all and goes against the original message but who cares right?

I don't know. Japan has a lot of girls falling for bad boys stories as well, but most of the time the bad boy becomes a better person because of the girl. Sasuke did not. Watsoever. Sakura has no effect on him whatsoever. The only girl who did was Karin.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

IIRC, wasn't The Last basically SP's own little pet project? Wouldn't surprise me if they prepared it beforehand mostly in secret, expecting Kishi to bend to their whims and make the last arc completely NH/SS in order to fit, but when he didn't and everything still pointed to NS, they sprung it on him anyway and simply went with good ole bribery.

[griff142]

I don't know. Japan has a lot of girls falling for bad boys stories as well, but most of the time the bad boy becomes a better person because of the girl. Sasuke did not. Watsoever. Sakura has no effect on him whatsoever. The only girl who did was Karin.

Sasuke did have a good amount on development from Karin but honestly it seemed to me he wasn't going to change even for her and I believed the only way he would be redeemed was for him to die which I think it would have been a ending for him. Would have made sense and had an impact besides the crappy and underdeveloped lone wanderer ending for him and gain emotions that we all know he wouldn't develop.

Edited by griff142, 12 March 2018 - 11:55 AM.

[Yyubie]

IIRC, wasn't The Last basically SP's own little pet project? Wouldn't surprise me if they prepared it beforehand mostly in secret, expecting Kishi to bend to their whims and make the last arc completely NH/SS in order to fit, but when he didn't and everything still pointed to NS, they sprung it on him anyway and simply went with good ole bribery.

 Yeah i thought of this too , The Last movie is a project that Kishimoto didn't know until it very close to hit theater. They didn't tell him because they know he would not agree with it being Hinata movies. That's why he said in his interview that he had to force them to change the script many times .... but who knows .... his interview has been inconsistent ...

[jak123]

Sasuke did have a good amount on development from Karin but honestly it seemed to me he wasn't going to change even for her and I believed the only way he would be redeemed was for him to die which I think it would have been a ending for him. Would have made sense and had an impact besides the crappy and underdeveloped lone wanderer ending for him and gain emotions that we all know he wouldn't develop.

In my opinion, Sasuke should have survived and gone rogue. Then in Boruto, he's the main bad guy. You could still have Boruto (NS) and Sarada (SK) plus you get the added bonus of Sarada being an Uzumaki. Sasuke would have her infiltrate Konoha as a spy for him and then she becomes conflicted because she connects with Naruto.

Edited by jak123, 12 March 2018 - 02:28 PM.

[griff142]

In my opinion, Sasuke should have survived and gone rogue. Then in Boruto, he's the main bad guy. You could still have Boruto (NS) and Sarada (SK) plus you get the added bonus of Sarada being an Uzumaki. Sasuke would have her infiltrate Konoha as a spy for him and then she becomes conflicted because she connects with Naruto.

I can see that happening but either way I still believe he shouldn't live. You can have Sarada and maybe Karin choose Konoha over him because he is too far gone. He is just too hateful to be redeemed at that point if he turned rogue. Not everybody has to be redeemed. Sometimes people are just plain bad or just too corrupted by the world to be saved. The ending was his redemption but too late if he survives in my opinion.

[Yyubie]

In my opinion, Sasuke should have survived and gone rogue. Then in Boruto, he's the main bad guy. You could still have Boruto (NS) and Sarada (SK) plus you get the added bonus of Sarada being an Uzumaki. Sasuke would have her infiltrate Konoha as a spy for him and then she becomes conflicted because she connects with Naruto.

Uchiha clan is always know as villain , their reputation is bad , hated-dislike/distrust at best and that's been going on since the village started , nobody likes them and that is the main reason why they starting the coup. I think the best ending for Sasuke is he died as hero , clean his clan name from bad history / reputation in the process , and at the same time he needs to pay for all the crime and s**t hes done. There is zero point keeping him alive , except for fan service and the next generation spawning pool. But he is Kishimoto golden boy .... and that can't happen.

[jak123]

Uchiha clan is always know as villain , their reputation is bad , hated-dislike/distrust at best and that's been going on since the village started , nobody likes them and that is the main reason why they starting the coup. I think the best ending for Sasuke is he died as hero , clean his clan name from bad history / reputation in the process , and at the same time he needs to pay for all the crime and s**t hes done. There is zero point keeping him alive , except for fan service and the next generation spawning pool. But he is Kishimoto golden boy .... and that can't happen.

Which I don't get. Out of the 3, Sasuke had the least amount of development.

[griff142]

Uchiha clan is always know as villain , their reputation is bad , hated-dislike/distrust at best and that's been going on since the village started , nobody likes them and that is the main reason why they starting the coup. I think the best ending for Sasuke is he died as hero , clean his clan name from bad history / reputation in the process , and at the same time he needs to pay for all the crime and s**t hes done. There is zero point keeping him alive , except for fan service and the next generation spawning pool. But he is Kishimoto golden boy .... and that can't happen.

To me Sasuke shouldn't die a hero because to me he was Yin to Naruto's Yang. They maybe were friends at the beginning but as time went on he got corrupted from his hatred for his brother and then the world. At the end he just got power hungry and was selfish until the magical 180 character change in the last 2 chapters. He wanted to be the world's dictator and could have been a pretty good ending villian for Naruto so he could overcome his obsession over him and he just needed to let Sasuke go. It would have been a good growing experience for him.

Edited by griff142, 12 March 2018 - 04:24 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

To me Sasuke shouldn't die a hero because to me he was Yin to Naruto's Yang. They maybe were friends at the beginning but as time went on he got corrupted from his hatred for his brother and then the world. At the end he just got power hungry and was selfish until the magical 180 character change in the last 2 chapters. He wanted to be the world's dictator and could have been a pretty good ending villian for Naruto so he could overcome his obsession over him and he just needed to let Sasuke go. It would have been a good growing experience for him.

Not to mention Sasuke was also motivated by his jealousy towards others who were stronger than him, like with Itachi since they were kids, and then with Naruto when Naruto was able to beat Gaara when he couldn't, even if it was his words that allowed Naruto to draw on his true power. And I do feel too that things with Naruto and Sasuke could have been handled so much better.

[griff142]

Not to mention Sasuke was also motivated by his jealousy towards others who were stronger than him, like with Itachi since they were kids, and then with Naruto when Naruto was able to beat Gaara when he couldn't, even if it was his words that allowed Naruto to draw on his true power. And I do feel too that things with Naruto and Sasuke could have been handled so much better.

Kishi really tried his best to replicate Goku and Vegeta relationship from DBZ, but unlike Vegeta I never really liked Sasuke because of the lack of growth from him and was easily influenced by people around him from Orchimaru to Obito. Yes he had his own goals, but the guy's hatred and jealously made him easily manipulated.

Edited by griff142, 12 March 2018 - 05:53 PM.

[Nostradamus]

Kishi really tried his best to replicate Goku and Vegeta relationship from DBZ, but unlike Vegeta I never really liked Sasuke because of the lack of growth from him and was easily influenced by people around him from Orchimaru to Obito. Yes he had his own goals, but the guy's hatred and jealously made him easily manipulated.

That's because Vegeta underneath actually has a heart and a brain. Sasuke is just an a-hole and incredibly stupid.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

That's because Vegeta underneath actually has a heart and a brain. Sasuke is just an a-hole and incredibly stupid.

 

Plus Sasuke had it easy compared to what Vegeta lost thanks to Frieza.

[griff142]

Plus Sasuke had it easy compared to what Vegeta lost thanks to Frieza.

That's because Vegeta underneath actually has a heart and a brain. Sasuke is just an a-hole and incredibly stupid.

Also you can understand why both of them why they are the way they are because of their pasts but like you said Bryon, Vegeta lost more than Sasuke and he eventually got over it. Sasuke didn't and he got worse and worse over time. This brings up a past post where you can feel sorry for him, but you need to know when enough is enough and end the threat.

[DrK]

Vegeta also yields and admits that Goku is better which Sasuke never does. I mean why should he? Kishi gave him a bunch of kitten that meant nothing to him. He has nothing to prove because he didn't really lose to Naruto. He brought Sakura completely to heel. Bulma stands up to Vegeta all the time. Bulma is a strong and independent woman even though she has a power level of 5. Sakura is very strong but acts completely helpless. Bulma is a hero who saved the world by having Trunks. Sakura became irrelevant. Bulma in fact changed Vegeta and he grew to care about others. Sakura had no effect on Sasuke and Naruto stopped caring about her. Nice.

 

How is the reader supposed to believe that Naruto is better? Clearly he wasn't better in the eyes of Sakura, and she was the closest one to either of them.

 

Now do you understand how pairings can kitten up your story, Kishi? Too bad it's already too late.

Edited by DrK, 12 March 2018 - 06:58 PM.