54216 replies to this topic

[Derock]

Yeah not like that did anything people still loved her and kittened on Sakura.

 

Why didn't Kishi just kill her off, that what I would like to know would have saved a lot and I mean a lot of trouble.

 

At the timeframe (basically during the Pain Arc), we stated that it would had been worse because fans would put her in a martyr status and annoy us to no end. Boy, we were wrong with that statement.

[DrK]

 

At the timeframe (basically during the Pain Arc), we stated that it would had been worse because fans would put her in a martyr status and annoy us to no end. Boy, we were wrong with that statement.

Well, I don't blame you. It's not like anyone could have expected that he would just throw away every last scrap of development like that. After he spent so much time on the romance subplot. It would be insanity. No one would do that. Almost no one.

[RulesofNature]

1 She is too sweet thus Sups would never hurt her and if he did the beta males would call Superman a kitten for hurting Hinata so she needs to win.

 

Superman is not soft, nor is he as naive as some people believe. He would call out Naruto over a lot of issues, most definitely Konoha training children to be soldiers being seen as a "good" thing, and most likely Hinata would attempt to step in to save her husband only to be knocked out almost immediately. After all

 

 

Superman would be incredibly upset at the ideals Naruto has come to embody. Sure, you can say it's a story for kids by he would still feel unease at the kinds of morals it imparts. Especially since he knows Damien Wayne, who was raised to be an assassin and has all kinds of problems.

 

Superman would probably dress up as All Might for Halloween though.

[KClaws_2]

It's kind of funny though, isn't it? He went way out of his way to establish all these parallels and then he did something that made them totally pointless and destroyed the themes of the story, for basically no reason because the other girl wasn't actually that popular. He sold out his characters and story with the result that it is LESS popular and makes LESS money. It's so absurd that it's hard to even believe that it's real. And now they think people will like it if they make a next gen pairing that is like it. No, people will like it if you retcon this horrible garbage. People will like it when you admit that you were full of s***. That's the only way anyone will like anything having to do with this joke of a series now.

Pro-enders have made the arguement that these parallels were to foreshadow how Naruto and Sakura would wind up. The problem with that is the message he's saying is that history will always repeat itself (and yes, Forneverworld, that IS a bad thing). The most heinous of them all would be Jiraiya and Tsunade, who didn't get together but in their original myth were a married couple. Given all the bull we were fed that Naruto's generation would surpass the last, we assumed they would succeed where JT did not.

We were horribly wrong.

As for what would have happened had Kishimoto went with what we think was his intended direction, I don't know. The end results would probably have been the same. One fandom loves it, another hates it. The difference being that we probably wouldn't get a next generation story, which I consider a positive either way.

What's really sad about his selling out was that they were aiming for the international market, but did not anticipate that many, if not most of the people looking at the manga and anime were doing so through illegal means. Not to mention that the internet has a habit of making what is a minority sound like law of the land. You hear from so many NaruHina fans praising the story not because they're the majority; it's because many other fans don't want to engage with their rhetoric and at the time we believed no matter what, Kishimoto would get to do what he wanted.

Once again, we were wrong.

 

Kishi must publicly, and on national television...

- Apologize for the ending and the subsequent lies told after.

- Expose his newer editors, Shueisha, and SP for their constant meddling and lies.

- Reveal what he truly had wanted to happen for the story and how the others meddled with them.

- Declare everything at least post-Pein, if not possibly all of part two, The Last, the Hiden novels, and all the new generation stuff, and especially all of SP's anime-original stuff, non-canon, then redo it.

- Denounce NH and SS for the toxic and horrible relationships they truly are.

Pretty much. Maybe not the national television thing (seems like a bit much, and quite frankly, SILLY). But he does need to come forward on the terrible editing practices of the manga industry and talk about what he had originally planned. After he's able to get some good connections, start Naruto over from whichever point he wants. There, after explaining himself, he would apologize to the fans he let down the first time around, saying he's learned to put more faith in himself than his editors. He'll probably also have to apologize to those who like the direction he took his story, saying "I respect and appreciate you loved what I had orignally put down. Unfortunately, this is not how I wanted things to go, and I would like to show everyone what I had in store."

Of course, given what we know about his writing skills and responses to criticism, even if he did all this...he just might make things worse.

 

Thing is James I was talking to evil and he said or at least fears that its only a matter of time before either SP or the Hinata fandom come up with lies that Hinata can beat Superman cause of many BS reason and he even gave me a list as well been getting angry reviews by NH fans wanting Hinata to be with Naruto as well.

 

1 She is too sweet thus Sups would never hurt her and if he did the beta males would call Superman a kitten for hurting Hinata so she needs to win.

 

2. Her gentle fist would work on him cause Hinata fans think she is all that and the most powerful Hyuuga of all time.

 

3. Lex Luther would give up crim cause she is sweet.

 

Yeah that is how crazy the NH/Hinata fandom is and I along with Evil just wish Hinata would die already.

Good lord...If Goku can't beat Superman, what the hell can that worthless moe character do?

 

1) Yes, Superman probably WOULDN'T fight her, but he's the friggn' OG of superheroes! He's supposed to embody all that is good in the first place! Death Battle knowingly removes these restrictions.

2) No, I can tell you it wouldn't work. The gentle fist style is used against opponents with the durability of normal humans. Superman is the Man of Steel for a reason, and even if those strikes worked SOMEHOW, there's still the fact that Superman has heat vision and freeze breath, both of which would stop her, Superman heals quickly, and his powers are fulled by yellow sun energy, NOT CHAKRA

3) And these fans obviously don't know a thing about Lex either. If Lex were to encounter anyone from Naruto right now, he would play along and stab them in the back at a time that suits him.

And later he would invite Orochimaru to have dinner with the Legion of Doom/Injustice Gang, asking him why he didn't betray the Leaf Village sooner (again) and laugh at his feeble excuses.

 

When the fandom says, Naruto is a coming of age story with a beautiful story beautiful romance, and easily relatable for all. 

 

 

Um.. No you want a  coming of Age story then please remember this: 

 

 

 

But wait what about the romance? (at first not too important, but when you really look at the story, it's kinda important here too) Obviously this: 

 

 

 

ofcourse the reunion: 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnP4KUEXNzE

 

 

insert can you feel the love tonight lol 

 

And literally coming full circle: 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFcRQRVMRpE

 

 

 

For a piece that's considered to be a COMING OF AGE,  I'm sorry Naruto fails in all cylinders. 

Ah! Yes!

Speaking of which, you know how I wanted Naruto's Hokage ceremony to go?

https://www.youtube....h?v=y6INp3k-vFc

 

But what do we get? If you had Kishimoto direct the Lion King, instead of an epic roar he would have ended with Simba s*****g himself! That's what I feel he did with Naruto's ceremony: All that talk, all that investment into his dreams...FOR A KITTENING JOKE!!!

 

 

MY MOVIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

*ahem* Oh yes, TLK is way better for coming of age story than this disappointment. Though I'm still questioning to this day with The Lion Guard airing, how it will come to conclusive with the ending of The Lion King 2. Where were Kion and the group during those events?

I personally chalk it up to Disney not giving a damn about continuity. I mean, Kiara and Kion are still cubs, yet Simba is sending his young son to go out and fight danger when he should be doing it himself? And how come Kion gets these superpowers? I know it's aimed for little little kids, but still.

Though if they're following real lion behavior (which they have ignored several times before), Simba probably kicked Kion out when he hit puberty.

 

Well, I don't blame you. It's not like anyone could have expected that he would just throw away every last scrap of development like that. After he spent so much time on the romance subplot. It would be insanity. No one would do that. Almost no one.

Naruto is the only work of fiction where I will say without question, the end game pairings are a MISTAKE. Not just "eh, it could have been handled better..." No, it was complete screw-up. You put in all this bait and interaction, make an asspull and give a terrible explanation later.

And I've normally been okay with the pairings in other works, even if the romance was sub-par.

Edited by KClaws_2, 08 March 2018 - 09:57 AM.

[DrK]

Pro-enders have made the arguement that these parallels were to foreshadow how Naruto and Sakura would wind up. The problem with that is the message he's saying is that history will always repeat itself (and yes, Forneverworld, that IS a bad thing). The most heinous of them all would be Jiraiya and Tsunade, who didn't get together but in their original myth were a married couple. Given all the bull we were fed that Naruto's generation would surpass the last, we assumed they would succeed where JT did not.

That argument would make sense if the story were meant to be a tragedy. If the message of the story rather than being about treasuring bonds, were instead "the human soul is inherently weak"

 

He certainly never implied that. Quite the opposite, actually. Every villain was given some hidden awesomeness to show that they could have been a great person. Yet at the end we're told that our main characters are s***. Were we meant to think all along that Zabuza had much more conviction than either Naruto or Sakura? Because at the end you find out that he did. He didn't deny that he loved Haku like NS denied the way that they felt. He died honorably while NS live in ignominy.

 

On the other hand, he did spend a great deal of time talking about bonds. So that argument is not cogent.

Edited by DrK, 08 March 2018 - 11:14 AM.

[Yyubie]

What i usually read from the pro ending fans is :

"It's already been foreshadow that NH and SS is gonna be cannon , because Sakura never give up on Sasuke and Hinata never give up on Naruto"

 

That is what they see that is what on their mind. And to be honest i'm starting to believe it a little.

In their mind it doesn't matter whether the feelings or the relationship is toxic/abusive or not , it doesn't matter how many development or hint or parallel. They just want to pair the things they like , they don't see the character as living beings they see them as their toys or barbies.

 

Kishimoto : Naruto loves Sakura

Pro ending fans : I don't give a s**t , Naruto marries Hinata because i like Hinata.

Kishimoto : But Naruto and Sakura have lots of development ...

Pro ending fans : Shut up , Hinata is cute , beautiful , and have big boobs and shes not a kitten like Sakura shes calm and submissive and she love Naruto , i like her!!

Edited by Yyubie, 08 March 2018 - 03:34 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

What i usually read from the pro ending fans is :

"It's already been foreshadow that NH and SS is gonna be cannon , because Sakura never give up on Sasuke and Hinata never give up on Naruto"

 

That is what they see that is what on their mind. And to be honest i'm starting to believe it a little.

In their mind it doesn't matter whether the feelings or the relationship is toxic/abusive or not , it doesn't matter how many development or hint or parallel. They just want to pair the things they like , they don't see the character as living beings they see them as their toys or barbies.

 

Kishimoto : Naruto loves Sakura

Pro ending fans : I don't give a s**t , Naruto marries Hinata because i like Hinata.

Kishimoto : But Naruto and Sakura have lots of development ...

Pro ending fans : Shut up , Hinata is cute , beautiful , and have big boobs and shes not a kitten like Sakura shes calm and submissive and she love Naruto , i like her!!

 

Dude, I think that is one of the best analogies about NH and SS fans I've heard, and a lot of comments I see with them really are legit. They just don't care about the feelings of the characters, and that's how we got the mess we're in right now.

[winter-serenade]

 


Kishimoto : Naruto loves Sakura
Pro ending fans : I don't give a s**t , Naruto marries Hinata because i like Hinata.
Kishimoto : But Naruto and Sakura have lots of development ...
Pro ending fans : Shut up , Hinata is cute , beautiful , and have big boobs and shes not a kitten like Sakura shes calm and submissive and she love Naruto , i like her!!

Well, its kind of the other around from what Ive seen.

Kishimoto: Naruto loved Hinata from the beginning.
Fans: But Naruto was shown to love Sakura on multiple occasions?
Kishimoto: That was the same love that Naruto has for ramen. He didnt know what love was. It was a silly crush.
Fans: Naruto knew Zabuza loved Haku though?
Kishimoto: Naruto never loved Sakura though. Naruto always loved Hinata. I planned NaruHina from the beginning.
Fans: Naruto thought she was a world class freak, though, but ok.

Edited by winter-serenade, 08 March 2018 - 04:52 PM.

[jak123]

Well, its kind of the other around from what Ive seen.

Kishimoto: Naruto loved Hinata from the beginning.
Fans: But Naruto was shown to love Sakura on multiple occasions?
Kishimoto: That was the same love that Naruto has for ramen. He didnt know what love was. It was a silly crush.
Fans: Naruto knew Zabuza loved Haku though?
Kishimoto: Naruto never loved Sakura though. Naruto always loved Hinata. I planned NaruHina from the beginning.
Fans: Naruto thought she was a world class freak, though, but ok.

Fans: It doesn't make sense that Naruto magically loves Hinata when he clearly loved Sakura and you spent 15 years building them up.

Kishimoto: That was all a red herring.
Fans: No it wasn't. You're a terrible writer. 
Kishimoto: I know. My wife hated the ending as well.

Edited by jak123, 09 March 2018 - 02:12 AM.

[DrK]

Basically, Kishimoto was greedy. He was told that he needed to give Hinata what she wanted, but he decided he wanted to do SS too in hopes of winning over more fans. But that ruined everything and made the whole story disgusting. If he instead killed Sakura, then NS would not have turned into liars, and I could still respect him. But then Hinata would not have been this amazing first choice, even though there was no way to ever make that convincing. What a fool that man was.

 

The funny thing is that killing Sakura is less dark than having SS happen. By a long shot. There are a lot of ways that her death could've been heartfelt. There's nothing heartfelt about SS and she is effectively a walking corpse.

 

But you have to feel bad for him. He ruined his life's work for popularity and ended up making it less popular and less profitable. That is the hardest part of this to accept.

Edited by DrK, 10 March 2018 - 02:08 AM.

[jak123]

Basically, Kishimoto was greedy. He was told that he needed to give Hinata what she wanted, but he decided he wanted to do SS too in hopes of winning over more fans. But that ruined everything and made the whole story disgusting. If he instead killed Sakura, then NS would not have turned into liars, and I could still respect him. But then Hinata would not have been this amazing first choice, even though there was no way to ever make that convincing. What a fool that man was.

 

The funny thing is that killing Sakura is less dark than having SS happen. By a long shot. There are a lot of ways that her death could've been heartfelt. There's nothing heartfelt about SS and she is effectively a walking corpse.

 

But you have to feel bad for him. He ruined his life's work for popularity and ended up making it less popular and less profitable. That is the hardest part of this to accept.

 

Seems like Hinata should have died during the Pain fight and then Sasuke die during the last fight. I mean for kitten sake. That or have him survive and The Last would have been finding and stopping Sasuke with Sakura finally letting him go because she realizes he's become a monster and realizes her feelings for Naruto who's always been by her side.

[Phantom_999]

You know, I kind of got into an argument with an NH fan over the thing in 450 (among other things), and by argument, I meant just listened to his claims and questioned if that's what I was supposed to see, why didn't Kishi do such and such?

His/her points basically boiled down to this:

1) Sakura's hug was a friendship hug

Me: I duuno. That looked quite intimate. I got hugged by a girl I had a crush on before; it wasn't ANYTHING like that.

2) Naruto didn't return the hug

Me: Yeah, it's called being RESPECTFUL

3) He was looking back at Hinata

Me: Wait. You mean those panels showing all the other K11, including Hinata, were from Naruto's point of view? If he was looking at HInata staring back at him, why wasn't that the highlight of the page? The hug got the biggest panel, that was clearly what Kishi wanted me to focus on. If he wanted me to see Naruto begin to think of Hinata, why didn't she get the biggest panel? The hug panel could have been shrunk, Naruto's own reaction moved down the page and proceeding that Hinata. That would have been a lot more clear.

 

It really amazes me how NH will never admit they are just seeing what they want to believe.

 

IS THAT WHY it was not Hinata hugging Naruto? I gugarantee you they would be leaping over the moon if Hinata was Hugging Naruto and saying "like OMG they are going to get married soon!!!!!!"

Edited by Phantom_999, 11 March 2018 - 05:28 AM.

[Derock]

I remembered the "Sakura's hug was sign of friendship/sibling/platonic love" argument.  Mind you, does friends even hug like that?! Never in my life had ever seen someone pull that to a friend. Not even to my own siblings either.

[DrK]

I remembered the "Sakura's hug was sign of friendship/sibling/platonic love" argument.  Mind you, does friends even hug like that?! Never in my life had ever seen someone pull that to a friend. Not even to my own siblings either.

She was trying to be as close to him as possible. She had her entire body pressed against his and even had a hand on the back of his head. And Naruto was just in the hardest battle of his life. He would have been really sweaty and dirty. His hair and face were probably soaked but Sakura did that anyway. If she only viewed him as a friend, she would not have touched him like that. No way. She would've found it inappropriate if not disgusting to do so. But she not only did so but did so with abandon. So she loved him. It's really that simple. It doesn't matter what they did afterwards. Kishi and the sycophants at SP can never change what happened.

Edited by DrK, 11 March 2018 - 05:29 AM.

[Phantom_999]

I remembered the "Sakura's hug was sign of friendship/sibling/platonic love" argument.  Mind you, does friends even hug like that?! Never in my life had ever seen someone pull that to a friend. Not even to my own siblings either.

 
Yeah this is how it works out if you are Naruhina hierophant. Sakura hugs Naruto? It is just a friendship gesture. Hinata Hugs Naruto? she totally proposed to him and they are engaged, even IF it was actually just a friendship-like hug. No questions asked!!!  

Edited by Phantom_999, 12 March 2018 - 12:55 AM.

[jak123]

She was trying to be as close to him as possible. She had her entire body pressed against his and even had a hand on the back of his head. And Naruto was just in the hardest battle of his life. He would have been really sweaty and dirty. His hair and face were probably soaked but Sakura did that anyway. If she only viewed him as a friend, she would not have touched him like that. No way. She would've found it inappropriate if not disgusting to do so. But she not only did so but did so with abandon. So she loved him. It's really that simple. It doesn't matter what they did afterwards. Kishi and the sycophants at SP can never change what happened.

Wasn't that hug also similar to one shown between Naruto's parents? There are so many parallels between Naruto/Sakura and Minato/Kushina.

[DrK]

Wasn't that hug also similar to one shown between Naruto's parents? There are so many parallels between Naruto/Sakura and Minato/Kushina.

I don't know. I don't recall that. But another thing is that it can't be a friendship gesture, because it was not even a gesture. She was not trying to comfort Naruto or show him some kind of solidarity or congratulations. She did that because she wanted to. Because she was emotional, and to her, it was the natural thing to do.

Edited by DrK, 11 March 2018 - 07:00 AM.

[Kasimir38]

I remember seeing a screenshot of that one scene and thinking: YASS, it's finally happening, Sakura is warming up for Naruto.

Considering how things ended, I don't really know what to think anymore.

It's just so confusing, everything.

Kishimoto: NH was planned 20 years ago.

But...what about all that development and silly moments between Naruto and Sakura?

Kishimoto: She is just like Kiba.

...What?

[Yyubie]

 

Got this from tumblr , i thought i should put it here.

This is sad ... Sakura deserve better , i already imagine her grow old alone nobody beside her ....

[jak123]

 

Got this from tumblr , i thought i should put it here.

This is sad ... Sakura deserve better , i already imagine her grow old alone nobody beside her ....

If Naruto is a scumbag, then what is Sasuke? He straight up neglects his family. I wouldn't be surprised if he and Sakura only ever had sex once and that was to conceive Sarada.

These characters are shells of their former selves. It's so sad to see.