3406 replies to this topic

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Sakura is definitely still the heroine... but if the non-heroine outshines your efforts exponentially, then the mangaka is sorely lacking in the heroine development.

There should be no question on whether or not Sakura is the heroine. No one questions if Naruto is the hero of the story, why? Because Kishi has written him correctly to be the main hero. Rarely does anyone outshine his efforts and accomplishments. But with Sakura? She's the heroine alright, but all there is is doubt about her role.

There's not even doubt if the heroine will turn bad or anything like that, people are actually questioning whether she's the heroine at all. I feel that is a major major issue. Kishi has dug himself into a hole with Sakura's place in all of this. Yes, she's the heroine, but she isn't given nearly enough heroine attention when it really matters.

Sakura could kick Obito's nuts in and destroy Madara with her one hand. Then she could give a speech of the century while going to get Sasuke home. She could heal the entire ninja army in a second and restore world peace and reveal herself as the santa claus. And still some people would call her useless and say she is not a hero. Some fights we can never win.

[sushi.]

Hey guys, we still have databook 3, RTN, not to mention the interview where Kishi says Sakura is romantically close to Naruto's heart.

[Codus N]

Hey guys, we still have databook 3, RTN, not to mention the interview where Kishi says Sakura is romantically close to Naruto's heart.

Kishi could've changed his mind.... what matters is the manga.

[Nate River]

But that would make her look desperate-looking. She's going to need to do something even bigger than Hinata did in this chapter. It could be anything really. But as it is now, what Hinata did seems impossible to top off. And I don't know what she can do about it. Whatever it is that she does, it would be before her "confession".

I'd prefer that if Sakura is the one to make the next move it that it would be something else that inspires her to act, rather than her making a move because she is afraid Hinata will take what she thinks is hers.

The triangle hasn't been portrayed as a competition, so I don't agree with Graven's theory.

[六道仙人]

Kishi could've changed his mind.... what matters is the manga.

RTN come out only 6 months ago Why did he make a such movie? For trolling us?

[sushi.]

Kishi could've changed his mind.... what matters is the manga.

That's why I said he could choose to make a crappy story, or follow his plans.

Btw, it was Hinata's birthday yesterday, wasn't it? XD

edit.
I see my prediction came true, just that it was not Sakura, it was Hinata. I wrote this on the 614 thread.

I wouldn't mind him raging as long as he doesn't lose his senses. If he does, Sakura should snap him back to reality.

Edited by sushi., 27 December 2012 - 04:42 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I wonder what people think the herione of the story is supposed to be? Pairing fodder for the hero? I don't see why her status as herione is 100% dependent on her relationship with Naruto.

I just don't like the extended sidelining she keeps getting, but she is still a part of the Team Seven dynamic that is at the very base of the story. Hinata is a component of that overall story, but she really has no role in it other than her thread to Naruto.

Sakura is still the herione unless Kishimoto suddenly eliminates her from the conflict. Then I'd be more inclined to say the story lacks a true herione, as least as a role in the story, rather than just someone who makes the occasional herioc act.

I guess why we're upset is the constant sidelining of Sakura's character, Nate, and how she hasn't had any good developement since her resolution to want to stop Sasuke to ease Naruto's burden due to how much she realizes he loves her, and how she feels for him coming to a head too. Sure, she hesitated to kill Sasuke, but unlike Naruto and Kakashi, she at least TRIED to do a damn thing with it. Naruto plans to do something, but he fails to see how he's affecting Sakura, considering she's the only one who KNOWS he feels he'll try to die fighting Sasuke if need be.

I also am just upset because it feels weird for Hinata to be focused so much right now at such a key point, considering that she has always to me come off like someone who doesn't know the REAL Naruto, like how she was when Obito first appeared to stop the combined forces of Team 7 and Team 8 when they were trying to capture Itachi. Even jumping to protect Naruto from Pain/Nagato was another example of that. It wasn't just based on her feelings to protect him and all, but the fact she still sees Naruto deep down as the "Proud Failure". And that mentality just shows she wouldn't be a good match, so seeing her do this just seems so odd to us, which is why a lot of us just want to give up because of this moment.

But I think it also is because we haven't seen Kishimoto even TRY once to put Sakura into some focus since her determination to want to kill Sasuke as well as her confession to Naruto, even if Naruto IDIOTICALLY (along with a big chunk of the fanbase, mostly N/H fans) seem to think it wasn't genuine due to why she did it, yet I imagine it is genuine, considering that she has shown since the beginning of the second half of the series to have developed some romantic feelings, considering some people forget her training under Tsunade wasn't for Sasuke alone, but also for Naruto , after how pained she was to see him so badly hurt because of his willingness to keep his promise to her.

Now though, I won't give up the ship.

Overall, the chapter was a good one, yet in the end, I just want to see something big from Sakura soon. I feel like she's always getting screwed over, and even if she is a medical ninja, I just want to see her doing something big for Naruto given how important she is to him, you know??

[primary colours123]

The biggest problem with the "heroine" of this story is that, from the start Kishi depicted her as shallow and one-dimensional. I could argue Hinata is the same as well, but she's definitely a tad better from her start and debut.

And THAT. Has been affecting the overall quality of the series. In other words, Kishi shot himself in the foot since day ONE.

The very fact that Kishi has portrayed Sakura as one-dimensional since day one has affected her character throughout the series. And the very fact he established Sakura's love life as her defining trait has forever since been detrimental to her character.

Um.... I always said that about Hinata. In fact despite everything that is being said about Hinata having character development and being heroic, I still see her at the same place. Static. Everything she has EVER done has culminated to this very point- HOLDING NARUTO'S HANDS.

Sakura, on the other hand has been dynamic. NO, rarely do we find her love life (For Sasuke or Naruto) to be her motivation for her acts. Her compassion for her friends (specially Naruto and his sufferings) make her do what she does. She became a medic, to be useful to Naruto, not to impress Sasuke. She saved Kankuro, since she was a medic. She saved Chiyo, since she had "a brave and chivalrous" heart. She saved Hinata (and was the only one to think of doing do) because she was compassionate (and had common sense). She could not kill Karin and hesitated, since she is more of a healer than a killer, she could not kill Sasuke both for herself and Naruto (the statement in those panels do imply that).
I really am amazed when people find Hinata to be better. Why? Because the aim of her fangirling (and not even the ego boosting type) was the Hero and not the cool Kid. It never helped the said Hero, did it?

Don't get me wrong. I liked her role in this chapter, and was even thinking "finally", when she had that last thought and then I facepalmed. Of course, "the power of love".

Sorry for the rant. But my Sakura fangirl is on rampage today.

Take care,
pc123

Edited by primary colours123, 27 December 2012 - 04:57 PM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

RTN come out only 6 months ago Why did he make a such movie? For trolling us?

Have you considered the possibility that Kishi took the movie as an opportunity to explore all those things he knew he was not going to do in the actual manga? Like Naruto and his parents together again and the opposite personalities of everyone, maybe NS is something Kishi just explored for the movie and won't go there in the manga.

[Branden]

There he is. Kurama. The demon fox that was the most evil creature on the planet for the majority of the series. It was responsable for the deaths of thousands of innocent people. He makes no attempt to make amends. This powerful being has befriended Naruto. But I ask of you, do you really think that this is right?

The Kyuubi, a powerful beast that we know is filled with evil and hatred that nearly killed Naruto and has corrupted his mind numerous times. Naruto, has the very beast which killed his parents inside him. Does this make any sense at all for them to be friends all of the sudden? Is Naruto's Talk No Jutsu so strong that it can cleanse the minds of even the most evil beings in the world and make them his ally?

If this is true, what of Obito? What of Madara?

[Codus N]

I'd prefer that if Sakura is the one to make the next move it that it would be something else that inspires her to act, rather than her making because she is afraid Hinata will take what she thinks is hers.

The triangle hasn't been portrayed as a competition, so I don't agree with Graven's theory.

Well, I hope so. While it is not a competition, it all depends on who Naruto feels has been the one to be there by his side. Is it really Hinata, like he said here?? or is it truly Sakura??

Y'know, I think if there was a character that could help solve this problem in the manga, it would be Kurama and Bee, of all people. Bee, since he's already seen inside Naruto's heart. Kurama, the guy who's been there since birth and knows him better than anyone on the planet.

[fireandice]

Kishi could've changed his mind.... what matters is the manga.

I don't know. If he really decided to I thought he would have steered it earlier...The entire part when Sai tells Sakura Naruto loves her is still quite recent. Kushina's comment that Naruto should "pick someone like her" is also pretty recent. The finale of the latest movie when Naruto goes and rescue to Sakura is literally shoved in our face as a parallel with Minato and Kushina (I mean Kishi has Naruto flashback to the night the Kyuubi attacked, which shows it wasn't an accidental similarity.) The movie isn't canon, sure, but that Kishi wrote it makes it significant...since he had every opportunity to use it to expland on NH and SS but didn't...

IMO he wouldn't resolve the romantic conflict right now where dragging it out would create more drama for climax-building purposes. If we were close to the end of the manga, I would be more inclined to agree that he has changed his mind. I know we're in the final arc but apparently that's still a year or year and a half left, at least? That's quit a lot.

[TerrorKing]

This chapter definitely had a lot of Hinata development. Not only did she get to hold Naruto's hand, for once she was actually the one giving him strength and encouragement. I think that from here on in, her character will begin to come full circle.

Is this an NH moment? Yes.

Is it romantic? Maybe.

Is this a sign that Naruto might reciprocate Hinata's feelings? Maybe.

All in all it's still too early to tell. If Kishi keeps this up for the remainder of the series, then NH becoming canon won't seem so crazy. It would be disappointing yes, especially after years of NS development, but it won't be completely nonsensical.

Still, I haven't lost faith in NS.

As for the rest of the chapter, I really liked how Sai and Bee just straight up attacke the Juubi head on. I wonder if we're gonna see some interaction between those two. I think that would be quite funny.

I have a feeling that this is not the end of Hinata's development. I think she will feature quite prominently in the upcoming chapter(s). I just hope that the 573 parallel is true and that we will get to see all the rookies shine, especially Sakura you know, the heroine of this story.

[kirabook]

Oh god, if Sai and Bee have more interactions... Sai might think it's cool to rap like an idiot.

[mone_]

even my pc didn't handle the tension and restarted itself when I tried to post my long ass reply so I'll be shorter now

Hello all!

Reading Latest Releases threads in this forum is always the first thing I do after reading the actual chapter, even though I do not post. It's because the opinion of majority of you guys is very similar to mine. That's why I was shocked not after reading 615, but after seeing that you're starting to give up hope!!

Some of you are "going down with the ship", the others even jumping it... Jeesus! Do you really believe the NS ship will sink JUST because of what happened in 615?!

My belief in NS wasn't even shaken. Why? Because this chapter proved 2 things, none of which was "NaruHina is canon". These two things are:

1) Kishimoto is a good writer;
2) Kishimoto has done a fanservice to millions of NH fans out there. You could also say it's a Christmas present for them. NH fanbase is HUGE, it would be a lie to think the author isn't affected by his audience and doesn't do things only to please them once in a while.

Note that those two points do not contradict. What I consider a good writing is that every word or action in the manga is connected to each other. What was promised earlier, would happen later.

Let's see what Hinata promised in 573 (I took mangastream translation):

"Naruto-kun... I've always been chasing after you... even now. But... once this war ends, I'm going to stop once and for all. Next time, I'll be next to you, holding your hand... walking with you! Wait for me!"

Basically, it says that:
- Hinata will be next to Naruto
- Hinata will hold his hand
- Hinata will walk with him
- Hinata will stop chasing after Naruto once the war ends

Seeing that in 615 Hinata IS next to Naruto, IS holding his hand and seemingly IS going to attack together with him (it's the closest to 'walking' she will get lol), there is only one thing left for her to fulfill - STOP chasing after Naruto.

In general, all the other rookies in 573 promised to support Naruto and fight with him, which is also being fulfilled.

This time, I'm not going to interpret the meaning of Sakura's words ("...no matter what you say this time... we're going to be together... not just me..."), but I could... I could..

What I want to prove is that JUST BECAUSE Naruto and Hinata actually interacted (which was inevitable) doesn't mean that plenty of Naruto and Sakura interactions AND development goes down the drain.

Of all the people, you, NaruSaku fans, shouldn't consider Hinata's actions 100x more worthy than Sakura's! Which you do by saying this is NaruHina proof. Then what was the hug in 450 (and all other moments)? How come these suddenly pale before Naruto taking Hinata's hand OFF his face?

Even if I wasn't a bit biassed by supporting NaruSaku, it would still be obvious that NaruSaku is the main pairing of the manga. It's obvious if we take into consideration all the development and things from ALL the manga, not some recent chapters only.

Kishimoto IS a troll, but it's NH fans that are being trolled. Because who honestly believes that after the war Naruto will tell Hinata: "I've been thinking about your confession all the time and realised you're the one I love" rather than "Thank you for being by my side when I needed it, but I love Sakura-chan" ??

I won't go down with NS ship, because it's NOT GOING DOWN!!!

P.S. Tobi being Obito was supposed to be unexpected and shocking. This and some pairing happening are totally different plot points and are approached differently.

[Branden]

Does Nobody care that Kurama basically just said :
Hey Naruto, remember that time I killed your parents? We're still cool though, right?

[PhenixElite]

If Naruto and Hinata are really going to end up together, Kushinas words seemed to be pretty useless, like a lot of other parralels and hints too.

[fireandice]

Does Nobody care that Kurama basically just said :
Hey Naruto, remember that time I killed your parents? We're still cool though, right?

Nope.

Hinata held Naruto's hand. Thus NH is canon./snark

In all seriousness I think this pairing business does lead us fans to miss out the bigger picture sometimes...because as you mentioned, this chapter really wasn't just about Hinata.

[Codus N]

Um.... I always said that about Hinata. In fact despite everything that is being said about Hinata having character development and being heroic, I still see her at the same place. Static. Everything she has EVER done has culminated to this very point- HOLDING NARUTO'S HANDS.

Sakura, on the other hand has been dynamic. NO, rarely do we find her love life (For Sasuke or Naruto) to be her motivation for her acts. Her compassion for her friends (specially Naruto and his sufferings) make her do what she does. She became a medic, to be useful to Naruto, not to impress Sasuke. She saved Kankuro, since she was a medic. She saved Chiyo, since she had "a brave and chivalrous" heart. She saved Hinata (and was the only one to think of doing do) because she was compassionate (and had common sense). She could not kill Karin and hesitated, since she is more of a healer than a killer, she could not kill Sasuke both for herself and Naruto (the statement in those panels do imply that).
I really am amazed when people find Hinata to be better. Why? Because the aim of her fangirling (and not even the ego boosting type) was the Hero and not the cool Kid. It never helped the said Hero, did it?

Don't get me wrong. I liked her role in this chapter, and was even thinking "finally" when she had that last thought and I facepalmed. Of course, "the power of love"

Sorry for the rant. But my Sakura fangirl is on rampage today.

Take care,
pc123

Her defining trait doesn't have to affect her actions, but it can still very much determine her character as a whole.

There he is. Kurama. The demon fox that was the most evil creature on the planet for the majority of the series. It was responsable for the deaths of thousands of innocent people. He makes no attempt to make amends. This powerful being has befriended Naruto. But I ask of you, do you really think that this is right?

The Kyuubi, a powerful beast that we know is filled with evil and hatred that nearly killed Naruto and has corrupted his mind numerous times. Naruto, has the very beast which killed his parents inside him. Does this make any sense at all for them to be friends all of the sudden? Is Naruto's Talk No Jutsu so strong that it can cleanse the minds of even the most evil beings in the world and make them his ally?

If this is true, what of Obito? What of Madara?

The thing is, as Kurama said himself, Minato and Kushina sacrificed themselves on purpose. So Kurama never really "killed" them so to speak. That, and after he (Naruto) understood why Kurama was the kitten he is. He can't really bring himself to blame Kurama for trying to kill him.

[Luna]

I still think NS will be canon. I'm glad hinata had her moment to shine and I don't even mind the hand holding BUT I don't think naruto will return her feelings because time and time again Naruto said he always love Sakura so why is most of everyone all gloom doom. I won't give up (hope), I have faith in NS. After all the NS development this one moment can't push it to the side. I do agree that Kishimoto can build on this IF he going to make NH canon but right now it is impossible for this one moment to change a person's feelings BECAUSE that would be bad writing in my books. And I do not agree with all the people saying this hinted at naruto returning feelings. Glad I'm not depressed and if everyone continue's with the negativity obviously its gonna make people jump ship.

Edited by Baka chan, 27 December 2012 - 05:07 PM.