549 replies to this topic

[Gaara's hair]

Good point. I meant in a good way.

Holy gorilla poop! She's hot! Best character!

Nah, I know what you mean. Story, development, doing something, involved in the action, not a doormat, not all about obsessing over a guy...

[James S Cassidy]

@James: I mentioned below how Kishi gave his rights up. Long since Naruto reach its hieght of popularity, Naruto is now a trademark. Kishi doesn't have 100% full ownership of his series anymore, in fact he just gave the rest of his work to his assistant, who will be doing the Bolt series. If he really cared, he wouldn't have done that. He also wouldn't have gave SP full reign on the The Last, but he did.

 

He does not care at all for NS/NH or SS. Only SNS. Bolt was the only movie where he physically wrote and directed the script/ movie, even dedicated his time with manga panels he drew for plot points, and it was SNS fan service. In his interview he said himself that he wanted to have Sasuke and Naruto hold hands, but his editor told him no. In every interview that involves SNS, he would always go in depth about their "deep bond" even though it's straight up bull. SNS are only the only fandom canon and fanon to get more fan service than any other ship. Junko and Non-tan themselves are voicing the "SNS" CD. Every single drawing of Naruto he created for promotion or for fans, Sasuke was right next to him. 

 

Kishi "forgot" Sakura. He called Sakura an "addict" for Sasuke. In Gaiden, Sasuke and Naruto contacted each other more than their own wives, and Sakura was depicted as a desperate housewife; Sasuke came off as an intellectual Saint. Even Karin had better character in Gaiden. Every since The Last Sakura was reduce to a cupid for NH. If he gave a kitten about Sakura, this ending wouldn't exist, ch. 615 wouldn't exist, ch. 636, Kishi making the Hinata vs. Pain filler canon in The Last. Even the confession was horrible, because Naruto himself said in ch. 470, that the POAL wasn't just about her, it was about Sasuke; that even if she dropped the POAL, he would still carry it on from him to Sasuke. Sakura was only given power ups to be a Tsunade lite and was shat on by Sasuke every other chapter from the War. In 693, she was kitten on, and Naruto only looked on with mocked disappointment, more concern about his fight with Sasuke than anything. Then you have 699 and 700. 

Dot Dot Dot.....




Are we forgetting this? Why would Kishimoto make this movie if he didn't care about Sakura and Naruto at all? And yes he has both personally written, directed, and made special drawings for this movie too. Just like he did Bolt. You know what movie he had no involvement in? Naruto the Last.

Let's also talk about others things such as if he loves SNS so much, why did he let Naruto the Last to occur that not only side-lined Sasuke, but practically diminished him. If he loves SNS so much, how come he never goes into details about Naruto and Sasuke's feelings? Now this is supposedly, by what you're saying, is before he gave up supposedly all rights to Naruto...so if he still had power, why didn't he just say no and do what he wanted? Why continue to push for something that he had no backing for? Again, he never talks about Sasuke's or Naruto's actual feelings that much in interviews.
 

SNS are only the only fandom canon and fanon to get more fan service than any other ship. Junko and Non-tan themselves are voicing the "SNS" CD. Every single drawing of Naruto he created for promotion or for fans, Sasuke was right next to him.

And we could have done the exact same thing. The SNS fandom KNEW they weren't going to be canon LOOOOONG before the manga even ended. So how did they get this to come along? Because honestly, they stopped caring about the actual story and cared more about making their own things. Which I have to respect them for. Honestly, we complained too much and we didn't really do anything. Most NS fans just gave up or constantly kept saying "We can't do that because it would be copyright infringe." Okay, well, if it is all copyright infringement....how is this SNS rip-off getting made?

Do you think that if we made something amazing with an NS drama CD we could have Junko and Sakura's VAs to do the voice work too? I am sure Junko would be on board, but no...you all just kept saying "It's over...we can't do anything." We can do the exact same thing, but we chose not to out of our own fears. Out of fear of ridicule. Even now, you guys care too much about what the pro-enders say and in fear of being criticized.

The SNS fans just stopped caring about what other people say and did their own thing. If anything, they have become free from it all. They are the strongest fandom right now because they didn't just give up and sat in the corner crying like every other fandom did. Even I tried to make something amazing and all anyone ever did was tell "You're going to jail for copyright infringement...the pro-enders will come after you...etc. etc."

 

I'm sorry but I don't find him sincere at all for NS. And why I feel (and some) insulted if there was NS. From they way things are, Kishi looks more than willing to change the ending into SNS if he was in a better company. I honestly believe that SNS would have been canon but was risky for the general audience, because I never seen someone so dedicated towards.

 

We are not canon; we were called a red-herring, developed for the sake of rivalry, made no sense, Sakura wasn't compatable for Naruto, Hinata was always there....

 

If that's what you want to feel, but Kishimoto never stopped anything else either.
 

SS was horrible, but shat on towards Gaiden and recent interviews. 

 

SK is not canon; Kishi confirmed in Gaiden that Karin's love for Sasuke is selfless.

 

NH got a movie; only positive interviews (majority didn't have crap about neji), family photos buy SP, NNS4 is every NH fans dream, and it's already been confined that they are releasing NH family special this summer.

 

And meanwhile, the movie only made money off lies saying that Sasuke was going to play a big role along with Kakashi and denied fans any refunds. Hinata merchandise gathered dust on the shelves and the Naruto final volume barely broke 500,000 meanwhile both bleach and One Piece doubled or even tripled in sales from a regular issue. Japanese fans think Naruto is a scumbag and Hinata is a tramp, the games were always pathetic even from the beginning, and anything Naruto related now is either being ignored or not making money at all. I don't see all this hype for the Hiden novels nor alot of people talking about them. I don't see a lot of hype for the ever coming Bolt manga.

Oh no, an NH special that nobody gives a flying kitten about and probably no one will ever remember. Do you see people talking about how loving the Naruto inauguration chapter went? No. I see no one talking about it at all.

Naruto, as a series, is only trying to stay afloat, but it is sinking. It's trying so hard by pushing mediocrity or worse saying "Well, if we promise more this, you'll buy it?"
 

 

SNS is winning both in canon and fanon. 

They are not really winning anything. They are choosing not to play the game anymore...which I guess in this case is considered winning. They are not buying the merchandise and it is not giving SP money. SP is not gonna change the ending for them either even if they are the most popular pairing choice and hopefully they will understand, if they haven't already, that all the SNS fan service is merely a gimmick to try and get people to come back.

They honestly don;t care any more about the fan service or the series for that matter.

Hinata's VA in Japan is even getting a bad rep for the Naruto series...so I have to wonder what is the damage we are not seeing?

 

If if they cared why is NH still being promoted? Because they don't care, and as long as rabid fans are supporting it, it's a win-win.

Because it's not Kishimoto, but his assistant who we KNOW is a pro-Hinata fan. I don't know what Kishimoto is truly thinking anymore and honestly, you can see in his writing style that he gave up on mostly everything. Including Naruto himself. He wouldn't even build up on any pairings. Sure, you can argue SNS, but did he really want them to be this overly homosexual couple? There is no way of telling that.

And honestly, I have to wonder sometimes if the fandom is to blame. Let me give an example....if you tried so hard to make a point and no one listened to you...wouldn't you eventually give up to? Characters he never wanted to make popular were getting popular and characters he did want to be popular weren't. It would lead me to give up to. I am not saying I forgive him for this, but I can understand what lead him to this.



 

Kishi ships SNS, SP/CC2 Ships NH/SNS, and Shueshia don't care as long as enough money is going in. NS/SS/Sakura fans have been treated like garbage (even though SS is horrible imho). So them "apologizing" to me, would be fake. Accepting would mean, to me, that after all I've been through after the ending, being treated like some delusional shipper, destroying any bond NS had, to the Franchise it would be that they ran out of money, "but we have desperate NS who are willing to take anything we spit out." If an alt ending happen right after the Last, I would have been okay. But after all this, if it happen now, I will not like NS. I'm perfectly content with fanon, because no one can touch it. Having it touched now only means to me that they are trying to get fans back rather than acknowledge that they kittened up.

Then don't accept it...make your own drama CD and contact Junko asking if she would be willing to do voice work for it. Have you even tried doing this or are you just going to feel sorry for yourself? All those rabid fans you speak are just as desperate for their pairing attention just as some of us are. Why do you think they truly love the movie and make excuses for it? Because they are so desperate to be right and believe in their make-believe love that they are willing to accept anything and call it gold...even if it was nothing more than gold-plated kitten.

Do you honestly believe that when Baruto finally dies people will remember it for being a great story? I doubt it. They don't even remember it now for being a "great story"
 

I do not see Kishi as sincere if he's willing to put more effort on SNS, and actually gave SK a proper closure in Gaiden. Kishi is just another anti-Sakura fan like the rest in this fandom; he just hid it well enough until the ending so he could bait us into paring wars a litle more longer. He's over Naruto because he wasn't allowed to hav-

And yet, he tried so hard to get her to be liked only for the fandom to backlash and listen to the radical fans like Sawyer scream "Hinata is our waifu." You all did nothing...you all hid behind these idea that we had to be polite and respect the choices he made and never raised awareness of the people that actually did love Sakura. We feared all the people being ridiculed and hated simply because we liked a character.

Kishimoto kept saying that Sakura's confession was real and truthful and yet all everyone kept screaming was "She is such a liar." Why? Because Naruto said she was? Naruto didn't even know kitten about himself....let alone anyone else.

So again...I blame you....I blame every person who kept their mouth shut when they could have done something. I blame the fandom for not asking the big important questions and raising awareness of it all right to his face because of fear. I made podcasts and videos show casing NS love and Sakura love, but all anybody ever did was let the shipping kittens talk.......well, then maybe we deserve the fate we got, but it is not going to stop me. It will never stop me. Maybe one day Kishimoto will wake up....maybe not.

You've already given up....so I guess there is nothing left for you.

Where does everyone else stand?

Personally...we have nothing left to lose....so I am just going to do what I want from now on. Every pro-ender I see, I am kicking them in the nuts....no really...if I ever meet them in person I am kicking them in the nuts. If they are a girl...well, I'll still kick them and I don't care if people think this is immature or a stupid idea. Between Naruto, feminism, people crying victim every 5 minutes and blaming other people for having better privileges, racism, my job, bills, politics, and money....I have no time for small time people's opinions anymore. I will spray paint blood red psint on every pro-ender cosplay costumes (especially Hinata's) screaming "murderer" just so I can have one last laugh. Just so I can ruin their day. Why? Because I can. Because I am sick of it all.

I am so sick of people complaining day in and day out how things are so bad, but are so unwilling to raise a finger to help change it all. I am so sick of people playing the victim every time something doesn't go their way and pretend that the world owes them one. I am so sick of people like me who just want to be happy being told that I can't be happy because my dreams are stupid.

You want to know who the real pathetic people are? All you have to do is look in a mirror...

I hope you all wake up one day, I hope you all wake up from the nightmare and realize that you are not as powerless as you think...you just don't want to try. You always feel like you're so weak and and that you can;t do anything...and I feel sorry for you over that. I am sorry that you feel like nothing can ever be good and believe me I know the feeling all too well.


 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 02 March 2016 - 05:13 AM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Tbh I think most of us are still at a loss as to WHAT to do...but I'mma holler back at the rest of your post tomorrow Evil-James

You've gone full on dark side bruh.

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 02 March 2016 - 05:25 AM.

[NeonRanger]

Dot Dot Dot.....




Are we forgetting this? Why would Kishimoto make this movie if he didn't care about Sakura and Naruto at all? And yes he has both personally written, directed, and made special drawings for this movie too. Just like he did Bolt. You know what movie he had no involvement in? Naruto the Last.

 

Let's also talk about others things such as if he loves SNS so much, why did he let Naruto the Last to occur that not only side-lined Sasuke, but practically diminished him. If he loves SNS so much, how come he never goes into details about Naruto and Sasuke's feelings? Now this is supposedly, by what you're saying, is before he gave up supposedly all rights to Naruto...so if he still had power, why didn't he just say no and do what he wanted? Why continue to push for something that he had no backing for? Again, he never talks about Sasuke's or Naruto's actual feelings that much in interviews.

 

RtN - Story plot was created by Kishi, but Yuka Miyata wrote the script and Date directed the movie. 

The Last - Kishi was not involved at all.

Boruto - Kishimoto personally wrote the screen play and created the Story. He even said in the Boruto Movie premire interview, that this is the first Naruto movie that he was fully invested in.

 

Kishi drew art for RtN, but he did the same for the Last as well. He does this for every movie. They are for promo. Boruto was the first movie in which he physically drew manga panels and ideas he came up with to fit in his movie. That isn't a promo. 

 

He does talk about SNS. For to the Naruto Forums, to the Naruto Movies New Era, and tou need to and the time to go through each Movie Convo thread from July 2015. That same Bolt interview that came out a month before the Boruto premiere mentioned that he wanted Naruto and Sasuke to hold hands, but his editor convinced him into gore, which is why his hand were cut off. 

 

SNS were right in what they say; having an SNS ending is too much of a risk. Having them admit any feeling that could be pass of as romantic would be a risk. Naruto was going to have a Part 3, it was inevitable. The Last was created for that reason.

 

Like you said, Kishi was not invloved with the Last. SP created this and told Kishi last minute about the plot, which was why Kishi said he "red-penciled it". SP majority only cares about NH and hate Sasuke and Sakura, of course they won't be in The Last or be reduce into cupid fodder. 

 

SP offered Kishi an opportunity to do Bolt, and Kishi took it. SP has more rights to the Naruto anime than Kishi, since any anime adapted from manga only have the sole purpose into boosting Manga sells. Which is why SP has full reign into doing what they are doing; if they want to create top class filler of a NH wedding during the middle of a War Arc, they can do it with no trouble. The only people effected would be the fans. Kishi only owns the name and manga, and even then SJ also own a part of the Naruto manga. That's part of contract. Kishi does not have balls like Oda to make his own story, he let the editors and assistance give him ideas and follow it. 

 

Kishi doesn't care about SasuNaru? Chapter 671, page 2. Both Sasuke and Naruto were described as Heaven and Earth, Ying and Yang. Something that was initially made for NaruSaku.  For some one who really care about Sakura or NaruSaku, why would he take the one symbol that defined NS and give it to SNS? 

 

Next was the Kobayashi Interview in December 2014. The full translation is in Konoha Library in NF. I can't go through the whole thing because the interview is over an hour long but here is the short version. Kishimoto said in the interview that whenever he writes Naruto’s character he has to think about Sasuke at the same time. 

 

For Hinata, Kishi said he increased her panel time because she was popular, no other reason. And even Kishi said she never did anything. Sakura, on the other hand,  Kishi said he decided to drop a lot of her plot including her parents, because she was too unpopular. How can I say that he cares about Sakura if he full out admitted he dropped her because no one like her?  If he cared about her he would have ignored the the hate and tried, even there is a chance that Sakura will still be hated. But he did not. He increased Hinata's panels. Now for Sasuke, Kishi was aware that he was hated, but said that he was a "pure" character. For Sasuke, even during the hate, Kishi said kitten it, and continued to make him relevant in the manga to the point where the manga should be called Sasuke.

 

From that same interview, Kishi said that the original ending was to have Sasuke and Naruto hold hands instead of cutting them off.

 

If Kishi was willing to ignore the Sasuke hate and continue with his character, if he actually got into an argument with his editor to have SNS to hold hands, why did he suddenly dropped Sakura?

 

Source:  http://naruto.wikia....i/Thread:164031

 

(There more to the interview, but most is on NF. It was the reason why so may SNS shipper hate Hinata more than Sakura, before that they were indifferent.)

 

 

 

 

 

And we could have done the exact same thing. The SNS fandom KNEW they weren't going to be canon LOOOOONG before the manga even ended. So how did they get this to come along? Because honestly, they stopped caring about the actual story and cared more about making their own things. Which I have to respect them for. Honestly, we complained too much and we didn't really do anything. Most NS fans just gave up or constantly kept saying "We can't do that because it would be copyright infringe." Okay, well, if it is all copyright infringement....how is this SNS rip-off getting made?

Do you think that if we made something amazing with an NS drama CD we could have Junko and Sakura's VAs to do the voice work too? I am sure Junko would be on board, but no...you all just kept saying "It's over...we can't do anything." We can do the exact same thing, but we chose not to out of our own fears. Out of fear of ridicule. Even now, you guys care too much about what the pro-enders say and in fear of being criticized.

 

 

 

You don't think we tried. A lot of NS shipper right after the ending, sent letters in Japanese to Kishi about our disappointment. A lot of people even express there issue with SS. And you know what Kishi did? Created Gaiden. Kishi specifically said, during his Interview about Gaiden, how people complained to him about SS and missing characters,  so the letters had got to him. And he created Gaiden to address the issue.

 

We already got our reasons for the questions we had ask since Gaiden, see? 

 

Chie is some extreme SS shipper; she was the one that ask Kishi for a SS movie like, and beg him for more SS. IT would be the same as getting Junko to like NH. 

 

SNS is getting the rip-off made because no one is against it. Junko and Non-tan didn't only did this by their own free will, they needed permission as well. They got permission. Which is why if you go on Tumblr you see SNS calling Kishi a SNS shipper as well. It's not that Kishi gave permission though (we don't know that). But the fact that extremely popular voice actors are voicing SNS look alike for JP SNS day, you can see that majority favors SNS over any ship.

 

I'm not afraid or ridicule. The majority don't care about SS/NH. Why are we living happily in fanon? But just how you are adding some NS shippers who are giving up, you also need to include shippers that want nothing to do with Naruto. That do not want Kishi to touch the ship, they do not want an alt ending coming from kittenfest that had happen since the ending. 

 

Not every NS shipper has the same agreement on wanting some alt ending. For something similar to SNS, it fine. But majority of NS shippers don't want NS to be touched anymore by the franchise. Any by that I mean they don't want some alt ending. And they have reason for that. The way the franchise and Kishi treated Sakura, is why I'm against it. I don't trust what they will do to NS. Others just don't want to acknowledge or behave just like the SS/NH fandom by accepting everything the franchise throws at us for the sake of money.

 

It's not fear, it's just that not many people want it. An SNS CD is good though, and you would  have more support than an Alt ending.  
 

If that's what you want to feel, but Kishimoto never stopped anything else either.

 

 

I'm saying that if Kishi cared enough, none of this would have happen. 

And meanwhile, the movie only made money off lies saying that Sasuke was going to play a big role along with Kakashi and denied fans any refunds. Hinata merchandise gathered dust on the shelves and the Naruto final volume barely broke 500,000 meanwhile both bleach and One Piece doubled or even tripled in sales from a regular issue. Japanese fans think Naruto is a scumbag and Hinata is a tramp, the games were always pathetic even from the beginning, and anything Naruto related now is either being ignored or not making money at all. I don't see all this hype for the Hiden novels nor alot of people talking about them. I don't see a lot of hype for the ever coming Bolt manga.

Oh no, an NH special that nobody gives a flying kitten about and probably no one will ever remember. Do you see people talking about how loving the Naruto inauguration chapter went? No. I see no one talking about it at all.

Naruto, as a series, is only trying to stay afloat, but it is sinking. It's trying so hard by pushing mediocrity or worse saying "Well, if we promise more this, you'll buy it?"
 

 

They are not really winning anything. They are choosing not to play the game anymore...which I guess in this case is considered winning. They are not buying the merchandise and it is not giving SP money. SP is not gonna change the ending for them either even if they are the most popular pairing choice and hopefully they will understand, if they haven't already, that all the SNS fan service is merely a gimmick to try and get people to come back.

They honestly don;t care any more about the fan service or the series for that matter.

Hinata's VA in Japan is even getting a bad rep for the Naruto series...so I have to wonder what is the damage we are not seeing?

 

Because it's not Kishimoto, but his assistant who we KNOW is a pro-Hinata fan. I don't know what Kishimoto is truly thinking anymore and honestly, you can see in his writing style that he gave up on mostly everything. Including Naruto himself. He wouldn't even build up on any pairings. Sure, you can argue SNS, but did he really want them to be this overly homosexual couple? There is no way of telling that.

And honestly, I have to wonder sometimes if the fandom is to blame. Let me give an example....if you tried so hard to make a point and no one listened to you...wouldn't you eventually give up to? Characters he never wanted to make popular were getting popular and characters he did want to be popular weren't. It would lead me to give up to. I am not saying I forgive him for this, but I can understand what lead him to this.

 

 

 

The fandom is to blame, for the most part.  

 

The hype is there. But it's in the pro fandom. It does't matter how much of the minority are there, as long as they are giving the money to the franchise, Naruto will still exist. Why do you think the Bolt manga exist in the first place? If they hadn't garner enough money, Bolt wouldn't have a spinoff. 

Fandom is the whole reason why Naruto/ Boruto is even continuing. SNS are still supporting the franchise and are well aware of the baiting. But they don't care as much? The franchise wouldn't be producing so much SNS if people were not buy the merchandise. 
 

In fact the franchise is still being supported by the fandom. Even the anti fandom. I will not bring names, but an artist who is pro NS, anti-NH/SS, just bought NNS4 and made a post on Tumblr to her mutuals and other NS shippers who bought it, about joining her for mutiplayer. An SNS I follow, said even though they are trying to bait her, she is still going to watch the Boruto move because of SNS. Another re-blogged and jokingly responded watch your money and she replied with an "lol" and that she doesn't care if others disagree.

 

Some people who are antis bought NNS4, because nostalgia or the new features, like online multiplayer. People still continue to buy posters, figures, and the novels, because of their faves. 

 

People who are not supporting the series are still putting their money into the franchise's wallet. 

 

I Kishi was willing to go lengths for SNS, as I mention above, it's easy to thing how one would call Kishi a SNS shipper. Like you said there is no way of telling that, but it's pretty clear that Kishi values SNS/ Sasuke more that any other ship. Especially to the point where he wanted them to hold hands.

 

SNS is the only fandom that benefited from both canon and fanon, which is why I said that they are winning. They had the manga for canon. And even living in fanon, they were presented with Bolt and the SNS CD. 

 

Fandom is to blame for the popularity. Why is Sakura the only exception to the tsundere trope? How did Hinata got so popular, when Kishi himself said he doesn't even know? Why is Sasuke the most forgiven character for his horrible actions, while people still continue to blame Sakura for Neji's death?  

 

When you have a fandom this bad, it's one of the reason why Kishi choose to get rid of himself from the series. I don't think he even cares about losing the fandom, because he gave his assistant rights to his work. 

 

What's even sadder is how despite Kishi showing no desire about Naruto, people are STILL  supporting it. Nothing of this...The Last, Novels, Gaiden, Boruto, Boruto series, DLCs for the novels...would not have existed if people still weren't giving money. 

 

Many people have left, but that does not mean that money isn't being made still. 

 

Then don't accept it...make your own drama CD and contact Junko asking if she would be willing to do voice work for it. Have you even tried doing this or are you just going to feel sorry for yourself? All those rabid fans you speak are just as desperate for their pairing attention just as some of us are. Why do you think they truly love the movie and make excuses for it? Because they are so desperate to be right and believe in their make-believe love that they are willing to accept anything and call it gold...even if it was nothing more than gold-plated kitten.

Do you honestly believe that when Baruto finally dies people will remember it for being a great story? I doubt it. They don't even remember it now for being a "great story"
 

And yet, he tried so hard to get her to be liked only for the fandom to backlash and listen to the radical fans like Sawyer scream "Hinata is our waifu." You all did nothing...you all hid behind these idea that we had to be polite and respect the choices he made and never raised awareness of the people that actually did love Sakura. We feared all the people being ridiculed and hated simply because we liked a character.

Kishimoto kept saying that Sakura's confession was real and truthful and yet all everyone kept screaming was "She is such a liar." Why? Because Naruto said she was? Naruto didn't even know kitten about himself....let alone anyone else.

So again...I blame you....I blame every person who kept their mouth shut when they could have done something. I blame the fandom for not asking the big important questions and raising awareness of it all right to his face because of fear. I made podcasts and videos show casing NS love and Sakura love, but all anybody ever did was let the shipping kittens talk.......well, then maybe we deserve the fate we got, but it is not going to stop me. It will never stop me. Maybe one day Kishimoto will wake up....maybe not.

You've already given up....so I guess there is nothing left for you.

Where does everyone else stand?

Personally...we have nothing left to lose....so I am just going to do what I want from now on. Every pro-ender I see, I am kicking them in the nuts....no really...if I ever meet them in person I am kicking them in the nuts. If they are a girl...well, I'll still kick them and I don't care if people think this is immature or a stupid idea. Between Naruto, feminism, people crying victim every 5 minutes and blaming other people for having better privileges, racism, my job, bills, politics, and money....I have no time for small time people's opinions anymore. I will spray paint blood red psint on every pro-ender cosplay costumes (especially Hinata's) screaming "murderer" just so I can have one last laugh. Just so I can ruin their day. Why? Because I can. Because I am sick of it all.

I am so sick of people complaining day in and day out how things are so bad, but are so unwilling to raise a finger to help change it all. I am so sick of people playing the victim every time something doesn't go their way and pretend that the world owes them one. I am so sick of people like me who just want to be happy being told that I can't be happy because my dreams are stupid.

You want to know who the real pathetic people are? All you have to do is look in a mirror...

I hope you all wake up one day, I hope you all wake up from the nightmare and realize that you are not as powerless as you think...you just don't want to try. You always feel like you're so weak and and that you can;t do anything...and I feel sorry for you over that. I am sorry that you feel like nothing can ever be good and believe me I know the feeling all too well.

 

 

I don't care much about the fandom. I'm supportive of something similar to an SNS CD just not an Alt ending. I mentioned this before in another thread. 

 

Noone cared enough about the story to remember the story.

 

For the rest...are you serious? Why are you blaming US for the ending?

 

Kishi was aware of the hate SS got, that why Gaiden was made.

 

Since, then people realize that Kishi will continue to come up with excuses, up until his death bed. Which is why they are done. 

 

People attempted a change, and it didn't happen.

 

Why? Because, like I said, as long as NH/SS, and to an extent some SNS, continue to buy the merchandise, continue to support the series, nothing will change. 

 

SNS only contine to have the good stuff because it was made very clear that it would not be canon. SNS is pure yaoi fanservice. This exsisted in every manga.

 

Read Hetalia? VAs created a yaoi CD for PruAus and USUK. Another shounen did the same. SNS was inevitable. 

 

Instead of blaming US, why don't talk to the NH shippers that made this happen? NH shippers are currently the largest shippers right after SNS. NH also continue to have growing people joining in. Why don't you talk to pro-enders?

 

 

The fandom is the reason why Sakura is the most hated anime character. The fandom is the reason why Hinata became the new heroine. The fandom is the reason why Sasuke gets away with so much kitten he had done. The fandom is the reason why villains have a happer ending or have more supporters (Itachi), than the heros themselves (there are people who are anti-Naruto the character). 

 

Sakura surpassed Shou Tucker in hate, if you read FMA. Tell me does that make any sense at all? Watchmojo created a top 10 Naruto characters, and the majority of dislikes and comments on YT addresses how this list is horrible because Sakura is in it. 

 

The fandom is the whole reason why the ending will remain as is. NS attempted to spread the fandom, we tried. But the haters were larger. Now we have haters, but we are still divided. Try talking to an SNS shipper about how NS is a good ship without downgrading SNS. Try talking to them, without feeling the need to praise their ship because you're afraid of receiving backlash and them hating NS. Try speaking to an NH shipper without getting blocked. Try speaking to an Anti-Naruto/ pro-Sasuke apologist. 

 

The NS fandom is not the majority of the anti-majority. We tried to address our ship and show people how it made sense to us. Look what happen. Majority of people, even the SNS fandom, laugh at Sakura's downfall and were disappointed that she still isn't dead. 

 

Why don't you stop blaming us for something had tried to prevent, but majority succeeded? Why are you blaming us when some of us had tried to speak up about it?

 

Pro-enders are the reason why the ending happen and why it continues to stay that way, because SS/NH are large enough to where the franchise is more focus on the supporters than us.

 

They are still continuing to support the series, were are not, so the franchise is not bothering with us. They still fight and defend this series which is why some Alt-ending is more impossible than you think. 

Edited by NeonRanger, 03 March 2016 - 12:08 AM.

[Yyubie]

I heard Kishi help the creator of The Last with the design of the character, and when the creator give the script to and ask Kishi "Here what do you think?", he decide to help a little and change the script MANY, MANY times.

That already tells you how awful and HORRIBLE the story is if he don't change that script ... who knows what happen maybe there is a NH sex scene or even worse ...

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Dot Dot Dot.....

Do you think that if we made something amazing with an NS drama CD we could have Junko and Sakura's VAs to do the voice work too? I am sure Junko would be on board, but no...you all just kept saying "It's over...we can't do anything." We can do the exact same thing, but we chose not to out of our own fears. Out of fear of ridicule. Even now, you guys care too much about what the pro-enders say and in fear of being criticized.
 

 

They are not really winning anything. They are choosing not to play the game anymore...which I guess in this case is considered winning. They are not buying the merchandise and it is not giving SP money. SP is not gonna change the ending for them either even if they are the most popular pairing choice and hopefully they will understand, if they haven't already, that all the SNS fan service is merely a gimmick to try and get people to come back.

They honestly don;t care any more about the fan service or the series for that matter.

Hinata's VA in Japan is even getting a bad rep for the Naruto series...so I have to wonder what is the damage we are not seeing?

 

Because it's not Kishimoto, but his assistant who we KNOW is a pro-Hinata fan. I don't know what Kishimoto is truly thinking anymore and honestly, you can see in his writing style that he gave up on mostly everything. Including Naruto himself. He wouldn't even build up on any pairings. Sure, you can argue SNS, but did he really want them to be this overly homosexual couple? There is no way of telling that.

And honestly, I have to wonder sometimes if the fandom is to blame. Let me give an example....if you tried so hard to make a point and no one listened to you...wouldn't you eventually give up to? Characters he never wanted to make popular were getting popular and characters he did want to be popular weren't. It would lead me to give up to. I am not saying I forgive him for this, but I can understand what lead him to this.



 

Then don't accept it...make your own drama CD and contact Junko asking if she would be willing to do voice work for it. Have you even tried doing this or are you just going to feel sorry for yourself? All those rabid fans you speak are just as desperate for their pairing attention just as some of us are. Why do you think they truly love the movie and make excuses for it? Because they are so desperate to be right and believe in their make-believe love that they are willing to accept anything and call it gold...even if it was nothing more than gold-plated kitten.


 

And yet, he tried so hard to get her to be liked only for the fandom to backlash and listen to the radical fans like Sawyer scream "Hinata is our waifu." You all did nothing...you all hid behind these idea that we had to be polite and respect the choices he made and never raised awareness of the people that actually did love Sakura. We feared all the people being ridiculed and hated simply because we liked a character.

Kishimoto kept saying that Sakura's confession was real and truthful and yet all everyone kept screaming was "She is such a liar." Why? Because Naruto said she was? Naruto didn't even know kitten about himself....let alone anyone else.

So again...I blame you....I blame every person who kept their mouth shut when they could have done something. I blame the fandom for not asking the big important questions and raising awareness of it all right to his face because of fear. I made podcasts and videos show casing NS love and Sakura love, but all anybody ever did was let the shipping kittens talk.......well, then maybe we deserve the fate we got, but it is not going to stop me. It will never stop me. Maybe one day Kishimoto will wake up....maybe not.

You've already given up....so I guess there is nothing left for you.

Where does everyone else stand?
 

To begin with the copyright laws in Japan are different then here in the states, thats why they can sell Doujin for a profit over there where as if you were to attempt to SELL a piece of fanwork of a licensed franchise your pants would be sued off in the U.S.

There is a reason why I bolded SELL, because as far as i understand it ( and I am not a lawyer.) If you make a fanwork, and make no money off it, you pretty much cannot be sued in the U.S thats why Fanfiction/fanartists don't have cases pending against them. They aren't making money so its fine.

There is nothing that leads ME to believe that a Voice-Drama is something anyone would get in trouble over so long as they aren't getting any money from people in exchange for it. The same goes for any other fan-works. 

I do think Getting Junko or any other of the professional voice actors is highly unlikely though....

People guy double punched by the ending. I can't blame them for curling in on themselves and feeling like everything they thought they knew was a lie. The way things went down was painful for everyone. First Sakura regresses, then Naruto turns out to be a kitten, no real resolution was ever offered and it never will be. People don't know WHAT to do with themselves, and some people can't find the wherewithal to care. 

I'm Guilty I said i would write more after the ending and never did. Couldn't do it. 

 

[NeonRanger]

I heard Kishi help the creator of The Last with the design of the character, and when the creator give the script to and ask Kishi "Here what do you think?", he decide to help a little and change the script MANY, MANY times.

That already tells you how awful and HORRIBLE the story is if he don't change that script ... who knows what happen maybe there is a NH sex scene or even worse ...

 

No Kishi came with the designs, but him "red-pencil" The Last was him lying for the sake of calling it canon.

 

In the interview, SP surprised him with the plot; the full script and story line was written when they showed it to him. That's why Kaguya was an asspull villian. If he had changed the script, there would be no need for Kaguya. He just adjusted the War Arc plot of the manga to fit the movie.

 

I question the NS fans in SP because they were aware of The Last and worked on it...they could have done something to at least change parts of the movie. Even if NH was canon, in The Last they could have had Naruto saying that he would always love Sakura, and vise versa, but they feel safe separated, they don't want to take a chance, I don't know, something angst that I'm willing to be pissed off but happy enough to create short story about their unrequited love story.

 

That "rivalry" reason was bull.  

Edited by NeonRanger, 02 March 2016 - 06:54 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

 

No Kishi came with the designs, but him "red-pencil" The Last was him lying for the sake of calling it canon.

 

In the interview, SP surprised him with the plot; the full script and story line was written when they showed it to him. That's why Kaguya was an asspull villian. If he had changed the script, there would be no need for Kaguya. He just adjusted the War Arc plot of the manga to fit the movie.

 

I question the NS fans in SP because they were aware of The Last and worked on it...they could have done something to at least change parts of the movie. Even if NH was canon, in The Last they could have had Naruto saying that he would always love Sakura, and vise versa, but they feel safe separated, they don't want to take a chance, I don't know, something angst that I'm willing to be pissed off but happy enough to create short story about their unrequited love story.

 

That "rivalry" reason was bull.  

The "Rivalry" BS was what turned Naruto into a complete scumbag and negated the vision of him being an altruistic "Good guy"

If you pretend to like a girl to piss off a guy and convince her and everyone else around her and you that you're in love and suffering because of her, and she confesses and you shoot her down infront of all your friends and act like she was in the wrong you're not a good guy you are a manipulative sociopath

 

[SlyNinjaKnight]

 

That "rivalry" reason was bull.  

 

 

The "Rivalry" BS was what turned Naruto into a complete scumbag and negated the vision of him being an altruistic "Good guy"

If you pretend to like a girl to piss off a guy and convince her and everyone else around her and you that you're in love and suffering because of her, and she confesses and you shoot her down infront of all your friends and act like she was in the wrong you're not a good guy you are a manipulative sociopath
 

 

Well don't forget that Sakura was the same way regarding rivalry. She and Ino were love rivals for Sasuke, and their friendship fell apart fighting over Sasuke, at least until the Chunin Exam Arc. It shows the double standards that (some of) the fandom and Kishi have regarding moving on from first loves, Ino moved onto Sai and I doubt believe she is considered a bad woman, since Kishi 'explained' why Sakura wouldn't move on from Sasuke was because it was wrong for women to move on from their first loves. (I might not be quoting it properly, Kishi has had so many contradicting interviews/quotes that it is pretty much impossible to get a straight answer)

[MagicalNgro]

The "Rivalry" BS was what turned Naruto into a complete scumbag and negated the vision of him being an altruistic "Good guy"

If you pretend to like a girl to piss off a guy and convince her and everyone else around her and you that you're in love and suffering because of her, and she confesses and you shoot her down infront of all your friends and act like she was in the wrong you're not a good guy you are a manipulative sociopath

 

Well put, it goes back to what I said before, all sides of the pairing wars deserved respect on how things went down canon wise. For them to reduce Naruto's feelings for sakura to a rivalry trophy is disgusting.

Bottom line is, if Naruto and sasuke felt anything for Hinata/sakura respectively, then those dynamics should have been developed over the series. Sakura being with sasuke after he summarily rejected her right before the final battle with Naruto is the worst thing I've ever seen in fiction

[Tsuki Hoshino]

 

 

 

Well don't forget that Sakura was the same way regarding rivalry. She and Ino were love rivals for Sasuke, and their friendship fell apart fighting over Sasuke, at least until the Chunin Exam Arc. It shows the double standards that (some of) the fandom and Kishi have regarding moving on from first loves, Ino moved onto Sai and I doubt believe she is considered a bad woman, since Kishi 'explained' why Sakura wouldn't move on from Sasuke was because it was wrong for women to move on from their first loves. (I might not be quoting it properly, Kishi has had so many contradicting interviews/quotes that it is pretty much impossible to get a straight answer)

I hate to nit pick with this but Sakura A. Had genuine feelings for Sasuke and B. Used those feelings as a jump start to step out of Ino's shadow.

She didn't "pretend" to have feelings for Sasuke to UPSET Ino, there wasn't anything malicious in it. Where as if we go by The last and everything else Naruto was doing it to be a kitten 

 

Well put, it goes back to what I said before, all sides of the pairing wars deserved respect on how things went down canon wise. For them to reduce Naruto's feelings for sakura to a rivalry trophy is disgusting.

Bottom line is, if Naruto and sasuke felt anything for Hinata/sakura respectively, then those dynamics should have been developed over the series. Sakura being with sasuke after he summarily rejected her right before the final battle with Naruto is the worst thing I've ever seen in fiction

Right, I agree. If you are going to make anything canon, put the effort into SHOWING the audience why, and don't retcon to do it. 

 

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

 

 

 

Well don't forget that Sakura was the same way regarding rivalry. She and Ino were love rivals for Sasuke, and their friendship fell apart fighting over Sasuke, at least until the Chunin Exam Arc. It shows the double standards that (some of) the fandom and Kishi have regarding moving on from first loves, Ino moved onto Sai and I doubt believe she is considered a bad woman, since Kishi 'explained' why Sakura wouldn't move on from Sasuke was because it was wrong for women to move on from their first loves. (I might not be quoting it properly, Kishi has had so many contradicting interviews/quotes that it is pretty much impossible to get a straight answer)

Naruto must only "love" :Hinata out of rivalry with Toneri, but now that Toneri no longer in the picture, Naruto is now stuck with Hinata with no way to get away.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

 

Naruto= Only interested in women when someone cooler then him shows up. 

[SlyNinjaKnight]

I hate to nit pick with this but Sakura A. Had genuine feelings for Sasuke and B. Used those feelings as a jump start to step out of Ino's shadow.

She didn't "pretend" to have feelings for Sasuke to UPSET Ino, there wasn't anything malicious in it. Where as if we go by The last and everything else Naruto was doing it to be a kitten 

 

Right, I agree. If you are going to make anything canon, put the effort into SHOWING the audience why, and don't retcon to do it. 

 

 

I always saw that Sakura saw all the other girls having feelings/crushing on Sasuke, and because she wanted to fit in, she started as well. Of course, that crush became more over time but I do think Sakura only started liking Sasuke in an attempt to fit in, again at first.

[James S Cassidy]

Tbh I think most of us are still at a loss as to WHAT to do...but I'mma holler back at the rest of your post tomorrow Evil-James

You've gone full on dark side bruh.

Puckish Rouge actually.

 

 

I hate to nit pick with this but Sakura A. Had genuine feelings for Sasuke and B. Used those feelings as a jump start to step out of Ino's shadow.

She didn't "pretend" to have feelings for Sasuke to UPSET Ino, there wasn't anything malicious in it. Where as if we go by The last and everything else Naruto was doing it to be a kitten 

 

Right, I agree. If you are going to make anything canon, put the effort into SHOWING the audience why, and don't retcon to do it. 

 

Naruto had genuine feelings for Sakura, but those were changed and retconned.

Sakura's feelings for Sasuke were genuine...they were genuinely superficial. That's it. Even now with them supposedly being "married" she doesn't really love him...she

only loves the idea of him. Same thing with Naruto and Hinata. Hinata only loves the idea of Naruto, not him personally. It is sort of fitting too seeing how the fanodm is the same way. They don't love the couple itself and live in reality...they are in love with the idea of these couples.

(I have seen so much SS fanart of Sasuke being this gentlemen and being romantic and sexy, but do you honestly believe Sasuke would actually behave like this? How can they actually believe this is Sasuke when in the manga itself he has NEVER done this. This is why it feels so OOC.)

These girl's love are so superficial simply because they know nothing about the other person. They don't really know....especially Sakura who supposedly can't even remember if Sasuke worse glasses or not. The same girls who can't tell that the other person is miserable or when they are acting up. Are you serious, Kishi or whoever?

Again, Miyazaki has shown that THIS is the problem with writer's today. They don't look to real people for examples of how human interaction really works and this is why characters feel so wrong. Yeah, it is a fictional story, but you have to have some kind of believably in there to have people truly connect with the characters. You can't have them all over the place UNLESS there is a good reason for it like say a mental illness.

This was also a reason why Kishimoto failed as a writer of female characters because he didn't actually look to females until after the kitten occurred.

Same with relationships. In reality, SS and NH would not last. If even SS some how got married despite all the murder attempts, Sakura would end up divorcing and moving on to someone else. And since Sasuke is not around to object. she would win downright. NaruHIna is so dysfunctional that there is chance Naruto would cheat on Hinata out of boredom or some other girl treating him better. It is human nature. We try to go with things that makes us happy. Whether right or wrong, justified or not, we do it because we can;t stand being miserable. We hate it. For Naruto, the realistic story would be that he cheats, Naruto and Hinata file for divorce and Hinata takes the kids with Naruto being under suspicion like Bill Clinton in the 90s and people would probably look down on him.

I have been reading fan fictions where people propose the divorce idea and they showcase Naruto being happier for it. Being better to his kids for it and in the end he ends up with Sakura who ends up getting a divorce herself. All the while, Sakura tries to force Naruto to get a divorce because she doesn't want Hinata to cry and ends up not believing Sasuke would divorce her only for her to face a harsh reality.

Ans this is by far the most realistic outcome to ever be made in this story.
 

 

I heard Kishi help the creator of The Last with the design of the character, and when the creator give the script to and ask Kishi "Here what do you think?", he decide to help a little and change the script MANY, MANY times.

That already tells you how awful and HORRIBLE the story is if he don't change that script ... who knows what happen maybe there is a NH sex scene or even worse ...

It's funny, but if you read the pamphlet that came with the movie describing the developing process of the movie with the director and producer, they talk about how the movie was purely made up by the director and I think assistant with Kishimoto only providing "helpful hints and designs."

In it, they describe how the director wanted the movie to be this "NH dream" that expanded over the movie which they showcase with the bubbles and such. I don;t have the link anymore to that pamphlet, but I know it exists and I have seen it. Can someone else find it? Funny enough, I remember the interview where Kishimoto said that the scarf idea was his and that it was based off a a story in the past of his wife making a scarf, but you read the pamphlet and the director said that the scarf was his idea to "connect the dreams together."

And this is the problem with Kishimoto and SP...they can NOT keep their stories straight. Who actually wrote Naruto the Last? How much did help did Kishimoto actually provide for the movie? And why is Naruto the Last so awkward in character development? Naruto is such a jackass in the movie that it is hard to believe Kishimoto added in any input especially when you watch things like the Road to Ninja movie and Naruto's personality is far different and more in tune with the Pein Arc version of himself.

 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 03 March 2016 - 12:02 AM.

[Gaara's hair]

Oh kitten! The creator of the souls games?

[rocci]

Oh kitten! The creator of the souls games?

?

[Gaara's hair]

?

I was talking about Hidetaka Miyazaki. Creator of Demon Souls, Dark Souls, and Bloodbourne...XD

[rocci]

I was talking about Hidetaka Miyazaki. Creator of Demon Souls, Dark Souls, and Bloodbourne...XD

I think what he mean by Miyazaki is the ghibli one.

[Gaara's hair]

I know...I did that on purpose so someone would answer. Yay \o/