See that's why I don't like the word "cliche". Even if something is used a lot, it can be written well enough to still be good. I think you are hindering yourself if you think something might be cliche or fit some sort of trope.
I don't like that word either. Especially when people seem to use it on things that are actually not cliche, but rather Tropes.
Example:
"SupermanxWonder Woman is too cliche."
I don't see how. They say it is the whole "GodXGod" love affair that is cliche, but it is hardly ever done. If anything, the "GodXRandomHuman" is far more cliche and has been done to death. How many stories tell of "SupermanxLoisLane" stories are there? I mean, I love Superman, but a change that is done well could do some good. I do think BatmanxWonderWoman is a horrible pairing mostly because nothing connects them. Batman is better with Catwoman because they are both the same and they understand better each other. I guess I can see BatmanxWonderWoman a thing, but it definitly wouldn't last as a strong relationship...especially when Batman is like the number 1 playboy and womanizer in the whole DC series. He has done pretty much every female at least once.
I also hate it when people say "We are tired of the same Superman story...can you do something different?" Change Superman dating Wonder Woman and they flip their lid. "How dare you, Superman needs to be with Lois Lane and noone else."
And still: No problems with Hulk and Black Widow being a thing apparently.
If a cliche means "a phrase or opinion that is overused and betrays a lack of original thought" then wouldn't that make things like SupermanxLois the most cliche ever since the story has been done?
One of the most beautiful things about TLJ is how the how/why Rey's so powerful and skilled with the Force completely destroys the intended message that by being a "nobody," Rey's strength comes from herself and not her lineage. It's comical how quickly it falls apart. Here's the abridged version.
1) Rey's strength with the Force is the Force trying to balance the darkness that is Kylo Ren. It's not Rey's own inner strength at work here, it's the will of the Force giving her power. In essence, this removes her nobody "status" as she is the one the Force is choosing to be their champion out of all the Force sensitives in the galaxy.
2) Kylo's abilities are boosted due to the legendary Skywalker bloodline. Since Rey is supposed to balance Kylo, Rey is being empowered by the Skywalker bloodline by proxy.
3) According to one of the writers on Twitter, Rey learned Jedi abilities and how to use a lightsaber by looking into Kylo Ren's mind during her interrogation during TFA. She copied Kylo Ren's abilities. This is not a new thing either, this was originally tweeted in 2016.
4) The previous point has since been expanded on through tweets. It was part of the Force bond between Rey and Kylo Ren that allowed this, which was created during the interrogation scene... by Snoke. So, Rey only learned Force abiltiies by copying them from Kylo Ren's mind after Snoke bridged them.
So, Rey learned her abilities because she was able to copy them from Kylo Ren due to the actions of Snoke. On top of that she is being buffed by the Force so that she can fight Kylo Ren, who himself is buffed by his lineage. Despite all this, they want her to be seen as someone who is strong not because of her own lineage, but because of her own strength.
Basically, she is a mary sue because "We wanted to make a mary sue female jedi and show how the Skywalkers are overrated" despite the Star Wars story as a whole has always been about the Skywalker family. Again, making Rey a Skywalker would have solved all these problems without much effort. It takes more effort to make her a nobody than it does to make her a somebody.
Like I said, Star Wars EU never had this problem. Luke had kids AND they were relevant and cool and you still had room for so much more characters like Boba Fett.
There's nothing wrong with stories that from the beginning start with the whole destiny route. But when your story starts the path of an underdog that has to work for everything he has and will have, but later on decide that it was all fate then it's rubbish.
Now there are ways around this, for example even though you pick later on the fate path, you can still have the hero struggle with everything he does. It's his/her destiny to achieve This Whatever This Is, but nothing is actually given to him or her. Going this route wouldn't nullify what you did in the beginning.
Indeed. Look at the story of Anakin Skywalker. His destiny was to bring balance to the force. Well, in a way, he did. FIrst he killed all the Jedi, especially the hubris ones, and then killed Palpatine by throwing him in the core. Sure, Luke played a hand, but Anakin fullfilled his destiny. Just because it wasn't all rainbows and butterflies does not mean he didn't fullfill it and it wasn't exactly easy to do. He had to lose everything he loved and cared about before he could achieve it with his son being the only thing keeping him afloat.
Too bad prophecies and such weren't more accurate.
Edited by James S Cassidy, 28 January 2018 - 08:26 PM.