9679 replies to this topic

[Gravenimage]

It's also a reminder why little changes in the anime may cause some people to feel less strongly about NS, compared to the manga readers.

In the clip you mentioned, after Sai butts in, Sakura holds back Naruto's arm to keep him from attacking Sai.

In the manga (chapter 343, pg 13), Naruto is still upset. But we also see that Sakura has clenched her fists. While not clear cut (we don't see her facial reaction), her posture would indicate that she also is mad at Sai's interference.

You can blame Pierot for that.

[Fyuria'sLeo]

It's also a reminder why little changes in the anime may cause some people to feel less strongly about NS, compared to the manga readers.

In the clip you mentioned, after Sai butts in, Sakura holds back Naruto's arm to keep him from attacking Sai.

In the manga (chapter 343, pg 13), Naruto is still upset. But we also see that Sakura has clenched her fists. While not clear cut (we don't see her facial reaction), her posture would indicate that she also is mad at Sai's interference.

Ive never really noticed her fist in that hmm I guess thats a win for us.

[Catwho]

As for the DBZ comparison, Bulma was also 4 years older than Goku (he was 12, she was 16) at the manga start. They were NEVER intended to be a romantic couple; her panty shots were played up for laughs. So that comparison really doesn't work, since Naruto, Sakura, Hinata, and Sasuke were all very roughly the same age at the start of the series.

Edited by Catwho, 21 July 2011 - 01:35 AM.

[bthug]

I just hit up my boy kishi and he said its going to be NS so no worries

[Paptala]

I friggin' adore FMA. I started giggling at the pics you posted and forgot what we were talking about! Yeah...um...there's that comedic effect kicking into gear!

I know me too! FMA was such an amazing series, and I loved it to pieces. Definitely one of the top mangas/animes I have ever had the pleasure of reading/watching.

Don't forget that Ed's line actually won a contest of the best line for proposing. If that's not proof how amazing it was, I dunno what is.

Really? Wow - that's interesting to know - I remember thinking that it was definitely a unique way of proposing, to say the least. Ed was being such a lovable dork in that scene.

*sigh* I know a ton of people have posted this on here already but...I'm completely drained of N/S goodness. I'VE GONE AND RE-READ FANFICS, LURKED MORE FANARTS, READ FAN-MADE DOUJINSHIS...

I CAN'T KEEP THIS UP ANYMORE

Anyway, if/when N/S meet or encounter each other, it better be at the least a moment full of substance and worth taking apart piece by piece to understand underlying messages. I hate being fed with a spoon, just show me the food, give me the damn utensil and let me figure out how to indulge in it! And if it's not, well, I can't be a beggar and a chooser can I? I shall enjoy any moment, but one with the former description would make my summer all the better.

Yeah, well that's one of the problems with reading an ongoing manga. The best solution might be to get into another fandom for a while, and then come back and catch up to the Naruto story later after you've given the story a bit of a chance to get ahead.

And hey, it could always be worse. There are some manga series that are released once a month (like FMA for example). Can you imagine having to wait a month in between chapters?

actually in Dragon Ball, the minor char girl (Chi-chi) who just crush (and blind love) the main character (Goku) is finally become his wife and the main female char (Bulma) married with the main villain (Vegeta). it's sounded just like NH and SS
so I hope this series won't end with the couple like this

This is a horribly superficial and surface argument that quickly breaks apart if you get into the slightest of details ; It's exactly as others as have said :

1) Goku never had romantic feelings for anyone else before ChiChi came along and proposed to him (well, made him remember that he promised to marry her at any rate) - Naruto was in love with Sakura at the beginning of the manga, well before he became aware of Hinata's feelings for him, and he was shown to retain those feelings AFTER said feelings WERE revealed to him.

2) Chichi's personality is much more like Sakura's ; even when she was younger and being bashful around Goku, she acted more like Sakura did when she was younger with her overt crush (blushing, bashful, but still openly fawning over the boy of her choice).

3) Bulma feelings for Vegeta were never depicted as a negative thing for her character ; also, Bulma became very forceful with Vegeta - she stopped being afraid of him well before he became a potential romantic interest of hers ; and by the time they got together, Bulma was every bit the Tsunderish character as ChiChi was (only with more yelling and less hitting).

The relationships in DBZ have strong women, who may have minor roles in the story, but definitely don't just role over for their husbands or stand idly by worshipping them and tending to their every needs. Just as in Kishimoto's canon relationships thus far, the woman is strong in her own right, and is respected by her husband/significant other.

Edited by Paptala, 21 July 2011 - 03:44 AM.

[Nate River]

This is a horribly superficial and surface argument that quickly breaks apart if you get into the slightest of details ; It's exactly as others as have said :

1) Goku never had romantic feelings for anyone else before ChiChi came along and proposed to him (well, made him remember that he promised to marry her at any rate) - Naruto was in love with Sakura at the beginning of the manga, well before he became aware of Hinata's feelings for him, and he was shown to retain those feelings AFTER said feelings WERE revealed to him.

2) Chichi's personality is much more like Sakura's ; even when she was younger and being bashful around Goku, she acted more like Sakura did when she was younger with her overt crush (blushing, bashful, but still openly fawning over the boy of her choice).

3) Bulma feelings for Vegeta were never depicted as a negative thing for her character ; also, Bulma became very forceful with Vegeta - she stopped being afraid of him well before he became a potential romantic interest of hers ; and by the time they got together, Bulma was every bit the Tsunderish character as ChiChi was (only with more yelling and less hitting).

The relationships in DBZ have strong women, who may have minor roles in the story, but definitely don't just role over for their husbands or stand idly by worshipping them and tending to their every needs. Just as in Kishimoto's canon relationships thus far, the woman is strong in her own right, and is respected by her husband/significant other.

The DBZ argument came about as a counter to the obvious facts that Hinata was a minor character with limited relevance. It was meant to show that such a thing didn't prohibit the NH pairing. DBZ is a popular use because Kishimoto said he was inspired by it. To me it suffered from at least two major flaws:

(1) It skips a step: evidence that his inspiration had anything to do with pairings.

(2) That Bulma/Vegeta originated as an attempt by Toriyama to spite his audience.

[Paptala]

The DBZ argument came about as a counter to the obvious facts that Hinata was a minor character with limited relevance. It was meant to show that such a thing didn't prohibit the NH pairing. DBZ is a popular use because Kishimoto said he was inspired by it. To me it suffered from at least two major flaws:

(1) It skips a step: evidence that his inspiration had anything to do with pairings.

(2) That Bulma/Vegeta originated as an attempt by Toriyama to spite his audience.

True - I've heard it argued so many times that NH has sufficient development to become canon, and in other shounen mangas like DBZ that would be true - but Kishimoto's romance subplot plays a bigger role than it ever did in DBZ. Which is why the pairing comparisons (NH=GCC and SS=BV) drives me up the wall, as it has so many holes as a counterargument.

Both of the points you made are incredibly valid points too ; I'll definitely be keeping those in mind should I ever come across this argument again.

[Super Boom]

The relationships in DBZ have strong women, who may have minor roles in the story, but definitely don't just role over for their husbands or stand idly by worshipping them and tending to their every needs. Just as in Kishimoto's canon relationships thus far, the woman is strong in her own right, and is respected by her husband/significant other.

That's a good point. Even though the females were pretty much limited to minor roles, or were basically mere spectators (I guess #18 and Pan were exceptions, but one was relegated pretty quickly, and the other was only really important in the GT anime), I still got the impression that it was the wives who were wearing the pants. Even if Kishi used Dragonball as an inspiration for the romantic subplot, which I think has already proven false (I might be wrong, but I think he mentioned using Slam Dunk for that), I would assume he would try to place the female partners in roles similar to the relationships we saw in DB(Z). If SS or NH were to happen, I can't see Sakura or Hinata being very strong female partners for Sasuke/Naruto. At least not with how those pairings have been written.

(2) That Bulma/Vegeta originated as an attempt by Toriyama to spite his audience.

Wow, I never knew that. I guess the pairing did seem sort of random, I guess I assumed it was just a "Vegeta needs a kid, I'll throw him with the only important single female I have" sort of thinking.

But I guess it would be funny to see how anyone who shipped Yamucha/Bulma reacted when Trunks was introduced. Seriously, random BA comes from the future, says he's Vegeta's and Bulma's kid, ship sunk, LOL. I wonder how the Naruto shipping fandoms would react if Kishi pulled something like that.

Edited by Boom...Winning, 21 July 2011 - 02:01 PM.

[ciardha]

But I guess it would be funny to see how anyone who shipped Yamucha/Bulma reacted when Trunks was introduced. Seriously, random BA comes from the future, says he's Vegeta's and Bulma's kid, ship sunk, LOL. I wonder how the Naruto shipping fandoms would react if Kishi pulled something like that.

Only one I could see him doing that with would be narusaku. Future Naruto and Sakura send their three year old daughter and 1 year son back in time to current Sakura to save them and change the future for the better. Heh, can you see a three year girl with peach colored hair and blue eyes three year old launching herself into Sakura's arms yelling "Mommy!" and then having her leg grabbed by a blonde haired green eyed one year old boy who just as loudly yells "Mama!" In the medical camp Sakura is at right now. Then having hazy images of a twenty-something version of herself and of Naruto appear in front of of her and explain the situation.... (The idea of having children with Naruto in the future would make her very happy, but she'd be a bit thrown for loop for a moment if this happened. Then she would be terribly anxious because it's not exactly the safest place for these very young children....)

[Phantom_999]

The DBZ argument came about as a counter to the obvious facts that Hinata was a minor character with limited relevance. It was meant to show that such a thing didn't prohibit the NH pairing. DBZ is a popular use because Kishimoto said he was inspired by it. To me it suffered from at least two major flaws:

(1) It skips a step: evidence that his inspiration had anything to do with pairings.

(2) That Bulma/Vegeta originated as an attempt by Toriyama to spite his audience.

And I'd like to add that both of those couples were unplanned toriyama only did Goku and ChiChi because he was pestered by the fans and editors to give Goku a love interest although I'm not sure about the reason for Bulma and Vegeta, point is Toriyama did not lay out the plot he was an improvising type of manga artist. Kishimoto is not so random with Naruto If He wanted NH he would have some some kind of indicator by now and no the confession doesn't count because it had no response and for good reason I don't think Naruto feels the same way and if he rejected her those Hinata obsessed fans will torch down everything. So here's a question: If Kishimoto intended to for NH why didn't Naruto tell Sakura "Sorry I like someone else now"? no excuse can negate that. Hinata's Confession was recent at that point it wasn't to long ago so he couldn't have forgotten it and any NH fans that comes up with that sorry excuse that he forgot just proves that it wasn't important to him because why would he forget a confession? he isn't (unfortunately) popular with girls so it isn't a regular thing for him If Hinata's confession actually touched him and change his feelings he would voice it. If NH fans say the same thing goes for Sakura, they seem to be missing something: Naruto did not reject her he was saying he doesn't believe the notion that Sakura doesn't care about Sasuke any more. Anyways I want the NEXT moment to resolve these conflicts once and for all and if you stop reading, smash things, start a revolt, etc. just because your pairing didn't happen then you're not a real fan in my eyes.

Edited by Phantom_999, 22 July 2011 - 04:02 AM.

[Anguyen92]

^^ Well, if for some reason like a bolt of lightning hitting kishi which made his thinking process different from before, narusaku didn't hit that next level that we're all looking for, I'll still just stick around and see how it all ends, because the story is so compelling and then after that I'll go on some sort of sudden angry rampage before cooling down and moving on to the next best thing in life.

Btw, I do agree with your "why would he forget a confession point", I mean if something happens then it would have happened after the iron country arc. I mean at least for our side, naruto and sakura had that one scene where they heard the news that tsunade was all right and that, you know, everything was fine for them, but what about Hinata? I mean when he heard Hinata's confession, Naruto was like all right and suprised and all of that, but after that he just moved on the next thing to his life which was dealing with Pein, dealing with Sasuke again and getting the kyuubi's charka and meeting his mom.

Edited by anguyen92, 21 July 2011 - 09:54 PM.

[Phantom_999]

good to know and sorry if I seem critical about that true fan thing but its true if you over react like that you're not a fan just a trouble maker like that Vancouver riot after the cancucks lost the stanely cup championship

Edited by Phantom_999, 22 July 2011 - 04:01 AM.

[Nate River]

And I'd like to add that both of those couples were unplanned toriyama only did Goku and ChiChi because he was pestered by the fans and editors to give Goku a love interest although I'm not sure about the reason for Bulma and Vegeta, point is Toriyama did not lay out the plot he was an improvising type of manga artist. Kishimoto is not so random with Naruto If He wanted NH he would have some some kind of indicator by now and no the confession doesn't count because it had no response and for good reason I don't think Naruto feels the same way and if he rejected her those Hinata obsessed fans will torch down everything. So here's a question: If Kishimoto intended to for NH why didn't Naruto tell Sakura "Sorry I like someone else now"? no excuse can negate that. Hinata's Confession was recent at that point it wasn't to long ago so he couldn't have forgotten it and any NH fans that comes up with that sorry excuse that he forgot just proves that it wasn't important to him because why would he forget a confession? he isn't (unfortunately) popular with girls so it isn't a regular thing for him If Hinata's confession actually touched him and change his feelings he would voice it. If NH fans say the same thing goes for Sakura, they seem to be missing something: Naruto did not reject her he was saying he doesn't believe the notion that Sakura doesn't care about Sasuke any more. Anyways I want the NEXT moment to resolve these conflicts once and for all and if you stop reading just because your pairing didn't happen then you're not a real fan in my eyes.

The way I understand the story of Bulma/Vegeta was that at the end of Dragon Ball he was done with the series, but was pressured into continuing by his editors. Hence we get the first two arcs of DBZ. After the Frieza arc he wanted to again, end the series, but was, again, pressured to continue. He paired Bulma and Vegeta after that to help kill interest in the series (so maybe spite isn't the right word) and it was a spectacular failure.

[Anguyen92]

Holy cow, nothing to talk about in almost three days, must bump this thread, but I don't have much to talk about, probably except the theme of bonding.

Edited by anguyen92, 25 July 2011 - 01:12 AM.

[Super Boom]

Holy cow, nothing to talk about in almost three days, must bump this thread, but I don't have much to talk about, except the theme of bonding. Now, how can the other pairings work, when its our pairing that spends the most time with each other? Probably, a question back, pages ago, that was already answer but this thread is running on fumes here.

LOL, I was wondering how long the Debate Thread would go without a post. I guess I could have bumped it myself, but there's not too much to talk about.

As far as the other pairings go, I think it depends on whether Kishi moves forward with the themes and messages he's already set forward, or if he decides to move in a whole new direction all of a sudden. I don't think he's that kind of a writer, so unless he breaks his leg on a business trip, gets nursed back to health by a NaruHina fan, and is forced to finish the manga according to said fan's whim, I doubt that's going to happen (cookie to whoever gets that reference).

As things stand now, I really can't see NaruHina happening unless Hinata's role dramatically increases, which still hasn't happened. I can't really see SasuSaku happening either, unless it turns out that Kishi's trying to put forward some 'true love' message. In which case, I would be disappointed with Kishi, in that, in my opinion, he never really set the foundation for that message before Sasuke left Konoha. Even after Sakura supposedly 'truly' fell in love with him during the Chuunin Exams, it still felt like a fangirlish crush to me.
NaruSasu might happen, but I guess my ignorant brain can't really comprehend Naruto turning out to be homosexual. At least with how he's been shown to react around Sakura since early in the manga.

Edited by Boom...Winning, 25 July 2011 - 01:29 AM.

[merryGOflava]

how can ANYone imagine naruto as homosexual??? i mean come on!! naruto likes sakura, naruto didnt like konohamaru's man on man jutsu, and.....naruto LIKES SAKURA >:U not to mention he gets freaked out when any guy comes to close to him...im looking at you sai...

i dont think hes afraid he just doesnt play for that team :O and makes sure of it.

[Gravenimage]

I guess they deny it the same way NH and SS fans deny that their pairings has little possibilities of happening.

[Anguyen92]

As far as the other pairings go, I think it depends on whether Kishi moves forward with the themes and messages he's already set forward, or if he decides to move in a whole new direction all of a sudden. I don't think he's that kind of a writer, so unless he breaks his leg on a business trip, gets nursed back to health by a NaruHina fan, and is forced to finish the manga according to said fan's whim, I doubt that's going to happen (cookie to whoever gets that reference).

Yep, unless he wants to go another direction in the romance department, all routes are leading to narusaku, baby. I just wished we wouldn't have to wait this long, for the end result.

NaruSasu might happen, but I guess my ignorant brain can't really comprehend Naruto turning out to be homosexual. At least with how he's been shown to react around Sakura since early in the manga.

I can't comprehend it as well, especially when a. he loves sakura, b. he created the sexy justu, and c. he once had the idea of peeking sakura in the women's section of the hot springs.

Edited by anguyen92, 25 July 2011 - 03:16 PM.

[elemental anubis]

LOL, I was wondering how long the Debate Thread would go without a post. I guess I could have bumped it myself, but there's not too much to talk about.

As far as the other pairings go, I think it depends on whether Kishi moves forward with the themes and messages he's already set forward, or if he decides to move in a whole new direction all of a sudden. I don't think he's that kind of a writer, so unless he breaks his leg on a business trip, gets nursed back to health by a NaruHina fan, and is forced to finish the manga according to said fan's whim, I doubt that's going to happen (cookie to whoever gets that reference).

As things stand now, I really can't see NaruHina happening unless Hinata's role dramatically increases, which still hasn't happened. I can't really see SasuSaku happening either, unless it turns out that Kishi's trying to put forward some 'true love' message. In which case, I would be disappointed with Kishi, in that, in my opinion, he never really set the foundation for that message before Sasuke left Konoha. Even after Sakura supposedly 'truly' fell in love with him during the Chuunin Exams, it still felt like a fangirlish crush to me.
NaruSasu might happen, but I guess my ignorant brain can't really comprehend Naruto turning out to be homosexual. At least with how he's been shown to react around Sakura since early in the manga.

so unless he breaks his leg on a business trip, gets nursed back to health by a NaruHina fan, and is forced to finish the manga according to said fan's whim, I doubt that's going to happen

stephen king's misery