Jump to content

Close
Photo

The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


  • Please log in to reply
54216 replies to this topic

#47321 VanitasDS76491

VanitasDS76491

    Legendary Ninja

  • Legendary Ninja
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,249 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Narusaku, Naruto, Bleach,,RWBY, Fairy Tail, Kill la Kill. Dragon Ball Series, Attack on Titan, Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy, Resident Evil, The Last of Us, Hellsing, Yu-Gi-oh, Digimon, Rave Master, The Middle-Earth Saga, Star Wars, Marvel Comics, MCU, Superman, Batman, DC Comics, Metal Gear Series, Transformers Series, Devil May Cry, Bioshock Series, One Piece, Claymore, Full Metal Alchemist, Yu Yu Hakusko, Soul Eater.

Posted 27 November 2017 - 11:29 AM

"It's not SasuSaku so it is not true love."
Basically...
By the way, this was a conversation I had.Pro-ender: "If Kishimoto made it, it is canon."Me: "What about Boruto the manga? That isn't made by him."Pro-ender: "That was endorsed by him so it counts."Me: "What about Road to Ninja? He had made that."Pro-ender: "That doesn't count cause he didnt say it was canon."Me: "What about all the Hiden novels that weren't written by him and weren't even endoresed and anime fillers?"Pro-ender: "Well.....well, you're just salty and triggered."Me: "Well, I guess I win then since basically you resorted to the old tricks that lost meaning when you guys started getting salty over Hinata's boobsize."

James, game set and match you win that discussion.
  

If you have one, can't you use it on Kishimoto to get him to release the real ending? Though Geass would be more well suited for something like this.

I'd go geass as that has better control to it.

#47322 DrK

DrK

    Summoning Master

  • Summoning Master
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,459 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 November 2017 - 12:16 PM

I'd go geass as that has better control to it.

Well you would have to go find him. With the DN you wouldn't even have to kill him, you could just do what Light did and kill a bunch of criminals until the deaths are deemed unnatural, then threaten Kishimoto until he retcons the ending. I can tell you one thing, he's not gonna hold out because he had no conviction in his ending whatsoever. Then you can give it back to Ryuk and you're good. No one would ever figure out what happened.


Edited by DrK, 27 November 2017 - 01:01 PM.


#47323 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

    Magnificient Bastard (aka Cliffhanger Bastard!)

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,914 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eugene, OR, USA

Posted 27 November 2017 - 04:01 PM

That right there is where we the audience (the real audience who follows the story, not just for pairings) see things that doesn't make sense and felt cheated because the promoter wants this info "legitimate" as possible for a certain group and recon stuff that they "somehow" believed that we probably won't see when the money rolls in. However, it's backfiring because majority knows and saw, especially with modern technology.


Exactly!!! That's the biggest problem about all of this; it appeals to one specific group in the fandom and tells the others to go **** themselves and just accept this crap. But what this attempt at false legitimacy does is expose a dangerous narrative that makes the "winners" here come off as idiotic @$$holes because they would believe ANYTHING as long as their precious "happy ending" is left untouched and they get legitimate thins, even if it is false equivalence of reality and their fantasy world of how things should be.

#47324 James S Cassidy

James S Cassidy

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,831 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 November 2017 - 04:37 PM

 

That right there is where we the audience (the real audience who follows the story, not just for pairings) see things that doesn't make sense and felt cheated because the promoter wants this info "legitimate" as possible for a certain group and recon stuff that they "somehow" believed that we probably won't see when the money rolls in. However, it's backfiring because majority knows and saw, especially with modern technology.

 

As for Bleach, remember the topics stating Kubo always trolls during the run? Looks like that was a misinterpret.

What's making it worse is how all of the parallels for NS such as Minato and Kushina, Obito and Rin, and so many others were laughed at and we were told parallels weren't proof of concept in the pairing only for them NOW to start showing parallels to prove why a pairing is good.

"Well, Naruto and Hinata are like Minato and Kushina"
"Boruto and Salad are like Naruto and Sakura and Sasuke and Naruto."

I notice none of them want to touch Obito and Rin like "If Hinata dies by Sasuke's hand's, Naruto would want to destroy the world" or something.

It is grossly disgusting how thery are changing everything in the story now JUST to suit pairing choice and not just the major scene, but now even the minor ones. The NS fanbase, in their eyes, can have no victory to claim and they change everything. Even the old Team 7 pictures are changing to these images of making Naruto look even bigger like a scumbag with Naruto looking like he resents Sakura and hates her. How's this going to fair when say a reader picks up Boruto, reads it, and sees that Naruto was the prequal of sorts (I know I know, but roll with me here) and then sees a completely different story than what Boruto painted? Like, are future readers of Naruto/boruto going to accept and notice the retcon or just sweep them under the rug like the pro-enders do?

I hope it is more former than latter with the new readers being like "What the hell? This is nothing what Boruto described." Especially when you have so much blanks in between the panels only to read more stories that further contradict the entire story as a whole.

And people say Superman is inconsistant with so many writers. Naruto is just a clusterduck (A quack job so to speak.) of stories where everyone invisions something different in the Naruto story. Kishimoto has his story where yeah I guess NH and SS is canon, but they are not happy. Then you have this guys story where NH and SS are supposedly happy. Then you have this person story of NH being happy and Sakura being jealous of NH. Then you have one story with Sasuke being around all the time and proposing to Sakura with this whole "I dont have a ring, but here is my crest" marriage proposal idea...(Not sure if this one is true, but read that one somewhere)... and then you have the anime that even more grossly changes the story.

I have never seen a story so mashed up before in the anime community til Naruto came about. At least DC and Marvel can say "This is canon, this isn;t, but it is a what if" Too bad Shonen Jump or ever couldn't do the same. Nope, it ALL has to be canon...except if it is pro NS, then it is debatable apparently.

It still surprises me that something Kishimoto actually made is non-canon, but something a two bit obvious pairing fan made and published is.

P.S. I am also even more sad to reveal that Naruto is also the only series where people tell me the anime is better than the manga. 99.9% of the time...I get told that the manga is better. "Don't watch Bleach, it has too many fillers. Don't watch One Peice, it doesn't follow the manga well.," but I should totally watch the Naruto anime because "it is so good." Like, are they just supporting the anime because Hinata gets more screentime than the manga or do they truly believe the anime is better than the manga because of better writing?

I once got told that I need to watch the anime because it "filled in the blanks." Since when was anime adaptation shown to be in high regard over the manga or other story? God, not even One Punch Man gets that kind of praise.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 27 November 2017 - 04:50 PM.

My gofundme
https://www.gofundme...c-designer-fund

Δικός σου για να κρατάτε
Σ'αγαπώ

#47325 HalfDemonInuyasha

HalfDemonInuyasha

    Mercenary

  • Jounin
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Albany, NY

Posted 27 November 2017 - 04:55 PM

What's making it worse is how all of the parallels for NS such as Minato and Kushina, Obito and Rin, and so many others were laughed at and we were told parallels weren't proof of concept in the pairing only for them NOW to start showing parallels to prove why a pairing is good.

"Well, Naruto and Hinata are like Minato and Kushina"
"Boruto and Salad are like Naruto and Sakura and Sasuke and Naruto."

I notice none of them want to touch Obito and Rin like "If Hinata dies by Sasuke's hand's, Naruto would want to destroy the world" or something.

It is grossly disgusting how thery are changing everything in the story now JUST to suit pairing choice and not just the major scene, but now even the minor ones. The NS fanbase, in their eyes, can have no victory to claim and they change everything. Even the old Team 7 pictures are changing to these images of making Naruto look even bigger like a scumbag with Naruto looking like he resents Sakura and hates her. How's this going to fair when say a reader picks up Boruto, reads it, and sees that Naruto was the prequal of sorts (I know I know, but roll with me here) and then sees a completely different story than what Boruto painted? Like, are future readers of Naruto/boruto going to accept and notice the retcon or just sweep them under the rug like the pro-enders do?

I hope it is more former than latter with the new readers being like "What the hell? This is nothing what Boruto described." Especially when you have so much blanks in between the panels only to read more stories that further contradict the entire story as a whole.

And people say Superman is inconsistant with so many writers. Naruto is just a clusterduck (A quack job so to speak.) of stories where everyone invisions something different in the Naruto story. Kishimoto has his story where yeah I guess NH and SS is canon, but they are not happy. Then you have this guys story where NH and SS are supposedly happy. Then you have this person story of NH being happy and Sakura being jealous of NH. Then you have one story with Sasuke being around all the time and proposing to Sakura with this whole "I dont have a ring, but here is my crest" marriage proposal idea...(Not sure if this one is true, but read that one somewhere)... and then you have the anime that even more grossly changes the story.

I have never seen a story so mashed up before in the anime community til Naruto came about. At least DC and Marvel can say "This is canon, this isn;t, but it is a what if" Too bad Shonen Jump or ever couldn't do the same. Nope, it ALL has to be canon...except if it is pro NS, then it is debatable apparently.

It still surprises me that something Kishimoto actually made is non-canon, but something a two bit obvious pairing fan made and published is.

P.S. I am also even more sad to reveal that Naruto is also the only series where people tell me the anime is better than the manga. 99.9% of the time...I get told that the manga is better. "Don't watch Bleach, it has too many fillers. Don't watch One Peice, it doesn't follow the manga well.," but I should totally watch the Naruto anime because "it is so good." Like, are they just supporting the anime because Hinata gets more screentime than the manga or do they truly believe the anime is better than the manga because of better writing?

I once got told that I need to watch the anime because it "filled in the blanks." Since when was anime adaptation shown to be in high regard over the manga or other story? God, not even One Punch Man gets that kind of praise.


It's just their typical hypocrisy and double standards at work.

And people who try to say the anime is better - just show them the QUALITY animation of the Pein fight, for example, and I guarantee they'll only bring up the part with Hinata's confession, as if that alone makes it all okay.


2e5.gif


#47326 James S Cassidy

James S Cassidy

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,831 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 November 2017 - 05:06 PM

And people who try to say the anime is better - just show them the QUALITY animation of the Pein fight, for example, and I guarantee they'll only bring up the part with Hinata's confession, as if that alone makes it all okay.

lmao....no no....that won't work either. If you look at the people making fun of that animation, you get comments like this:

"I may be alone in saying this but I personally thought the dramatically artistic approach of the animation in the part of the battle was great. It told me "Hey this part of the battle is gonna be really intense, fast-paced, and crazy!""

"This episode and fight were meant to be like this. Don't ask why, I watched this long time ago and I still remember how hard I laughed it was good from the anime maker"

"How is this crappy animation? I think that if you don't animate, you shouldn't judge what's crappy and what's not, especially considering that this doesn't' look bad in at all."

and my favorite one of all:

"First of all, lol. Not hating on this video, jokes are fine and cool. But yeah, god forbid animation actually be animated. I saw this episode and the first thing I thought was that it was kittening beautiful. I never would've guessed that it would be "infamous", and I was shocked when I found out. I like anime, but I think one of the reasons I put it in a different category than cartoons is because of how still it often is, how on-model the characters always are. And that's why I loved this episode. IT MADE ME FEEL LIKE I WAS WATCHING A kittening CARTOON. And that's a good thing, because that's what anime technically is. Everything was so fluid, so alive, the characters felt (ironically enough) more like real people than they ever had before, the expressions and the emotions on display were engaging. Now, maybe there's some validity to people saying it was out of place in this context, but I feel like it worked well enough for showing how Naruto had completely lost control after the death of his friend. People go after it specifically for the weird warping, but people love that kitten in Ren and Stimpy. Jon K didn't make the show he made and leave his mark on the animation industry by playing by the rules. He went for weird and ugly and and bonkers on purpose. It also reminds me a lot of Masaaki Yuasa (Tatami Galaxy, Ping Pong The Animation, and an episode of Space Dandy if I recall correctly), a guy who makes anime that actually has its own style and whose animation style is similarly exaggerated and surreal."

 


My gofundme
https://www.gofundme...c-designer-fund

Δικός σου για να κρατάτε
Σ'αγαπώ

#47327 winter-serenade

winter-serenade

    Chakra Tree Climber

  • Chakra Tree Climber
  • PipPip
  • 223 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 27 November 2017 - 07:15 PM

Anyway, Naruto loved Sakura and nothing can change that fact. Databooks haven't just hinted, but stated. To say he doesn't love her anymore is understandable. After all, he's married to Hinata now, unfortunately. However, to claim that he never loved her is ridiculous. 


Edited by winter-serenade, 27 November 2017 - 07:17 PM.


#47328 James S Cassidy

James S Cassidy

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,831 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 November 2017 - 07:26 PM

Anyway, Naruto loved Sakura and nothing can change that fact. Databooks haven't just hinted, but stated. To say he doesn't love her anymore is understandable. After all, he's married to Hinata now, unfortunately. However, to claim that he never loved her is ridiculous. 

But saying he never loved her at all is the "canon story" and it is how Kishimoto intended. *sarcasm*


My gofundme
https://www.gofundme...c-designer-fund

Δικός σου για να κρατάτε
Σ'αγαπώ

#47329 DrK

DrK

    Summoning Master

  • Summoning Master
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,459 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 November 2017 - 07:28 PM

But saying he never loved her at all is the "canon story" and it is how Kishimoto intended. *sarcasm*

Because emphasizing the hero's connection with a female character above all others is meant to show that they are just friends, while having him ignore another girl means he loves that girl instead. Because the ending told us that it means that.



#47330 James S Cassidy

James S Cassidy

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,831 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 November 2017 - 07:30 PM

Because emphasizing the hero's connection with a female character above all others is meant to show that they are just friends, while having him ignore another girl means he loves that girl instead. Because the ending told us that it means that.

Enduring love, DrK.....Enduring love. *more sarcasm*


Edited by James S Cassidy, 27 November 2017 - 07:31 PM.

My gofundme
https://www.gofundme...c-designer-fund

Δικός σου για να κρατάτε
Σ'αγαπώ

#47331 DrK

DrK

    Summoning Master

  • Summoning Master
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,459 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 November 2017 - 07:46 PM

Enduring love, DrK.....Enduring love. *more sarcasm*

The message of Naruto is that obsession wins out over love, and in fact wins out over everything given that Hinata only cared about Naruto and maintained this stance until in The Last movie, Naruto had given up and was going to let the world be destroyed because he only cared about Hinata. And he felt this way with Sakura in the room who should at least have been an important friend. He's going to let her and everyone else die because he lost his stupid moe girl. This is our protagonist. The writing is so damn pathetic and disgraceful. The fact that Kishimoto signed off on this movie shows that he didn't care anymore, even if you forget that he ruined the ending by doing a 180 in his plans.



#47332 TheFirstEvil100

TheFirstEvil100

    S-Class Missing-nin

  • S-Class Missing Nin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:England
  • Interests:Reading and watching Naruto, play on my PS3 playing on my Pokemon games mainly Pokemon X right now I also like watching good Horror films.

Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:15 PM

The message of Naruto is that obsession wins out over love, and in fact wins out over everything given that Hinata only cared about Naruto and maintained this stance until in The Last movie, Naruto had given up and was going to let the world be destroyed because he only cared about Hinata. And he felt this way with Sakura in the room who should at least have been an important friend. He's going to let her and everyone else die because he lost his stupid moe girl. This is our protagonist. The writing is so damn pathetic and disgraceful. The fact that Kishimoto signed off on this movie shows that he didn't care anymore, even if you forget that he ruined the ending by doing a 180 in his plans.

That is true man, you need to also remember that many hate Naruto as one member of NH called Koshji said I like Hinata more than I do Hinata. its why if Hinata gets killed in Boruto I will not care at all hell I hope that it happens and in a sad way that shows just how bad Hinata really is.



#47333 James S Cassidy

James S Cassidy

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,831 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:20 PM

You know, I was rewatching Bleach this entire time and I have to say I am enjoying it alot more than I remember from last time. Is it because I really didn't appreciate it at the time? Probably. I also notice two things I never noticed before, but I do now and that is Naruto and Bleach follow two very interesting dynamics that I wish to share. Somthing that Bleach shares with Superman for that matter and Naruto shares with Goku or tries to. (No, I am not going into a Superman vs Goku debate again so please don't even try. This is NOT a competition so much as it is a comparison. That's it. If you take it as anything more than that. That's your problem and shame on you.)

First let me explain the two types of heroes I see alot in stories lately:

First type I see that I see and will refer to as The Superman Effect:
What is it?

The Superman effect is what I call a hero type where the hero himself has latent and hidden powers that far surpasses anyone or anything has seen before in the story. They have massive power locked away inside them and usually have trouble accessing them. Their fault is not that they don't have power, but rather have problems accessing that power. This isn't to say that other aren't just as powerful, but rather it is unusual for this what seems to be an "ordinary person" possessing. They are so powerful, in fact, that they may even be altering latent hidden powers of those around them without proper training or acknowledgment. They just have raw unimaginable power that they don't realize and the journey is not about gaining more power, but rather unlocking the near limitless or even infinite potential they have. It is a classic form of "Its the journey, not the destination" type of story. You already know they are going to win and overcome, but how?

Pros: The hero appreciates and understand their role and power they possess. They can be humbled by it, but mostly just understand that with said power comes responsibilty so they never use the power on people who don't deserve it even if they could end them effortlessly.
Cons: At times it does get boring when they can't power struggle and seem rather overpowered, but can be subverted if the point is to focus on more moral struggle than brutal muscle measuring. Can also lead to sometimes the hero preserves too much and won't unleash power against a foe that could potentially cause more lives lost in the long run than in the short. (greater good basically)

This is Ichigo Kurasaki from Bleach. Even from the beginning everyone, including more prominate and skilled soul reapers, is at awe with the amount of power he possesses. "How can he have this much power?" They will exclaim and Ichigo doesn't even know himself. His adventures aren't power through training, but his training is used to refine the already existing power he possesses. The people he faces are not more powerful than him, but rather an obstacle he has to get passed to achieve a goal. He is not trying to over power his opponent, he alreayd can do that, but rather how can he use his power to win against them. So when Ichigo gets a "power-up" it is not him surpassing his limits, but rather already unlocking a power he already posseses. Basically gaining access to said powers.

Saitama from One Punch Man also follows this mostly, but at the same time pokes fun at the next type I am about to give.

The other type is what I dub The Goku Effect.

The Goku Effect is a type of hero who is not like the other type in that it really is the destination and not the journey. This isn't to say that journey isn't important, but rather that the journey is not the main focus. Their main focus is overcoming and achieveing past the limits they have. They never have limitless power, but they do have limitless potential. The whole point is reaching the new destination and the pinnacle point til the next destination is given. IE. keep going until there is nothing left to do. They set up goals for them to reach and try overcoming said goals to obtain challenges because they live off that challenge. To them, it is a hobby. They do not care where the destination gets them so much as they reach it. As soon as they reach said destination, they drop it in favor of going somewhere else that is harder. It seems like they never appreciate the destination they reached because they already achieve it. So one could argue that "success" is a minor celebetory achievement for them. They celebrate the challenge, not the success which is why they always seek out more challenges.

Pros: The hero can show great struggle and overcoming that struggle especially when fighting strong opponents showcasing that no limit can't be overcome. A true tale of test and courage in the face of oblivion. A hero who is willing to fight the fights even if it seems hopeless and at times ge out by the skin of their teeth.
Cons: Too much struggle and you wonder how they keep surviving as well the hero seems more self-centered when they care more about the fight than they do about potential innocence lives being lost. Basically the challenge thrill outweighs the actual moral standing that lives matter. Can be subverted if the hero is aware of his predicament and realizes that his power struggle should not outweigh the true meaning of starting the journey in the first place.

This is what Naruto was....at the start of the series. He was a hero who faced many challanges, proclaims goals, and began to work to achieve said goals. Pretty soon, however, Naruto went from The Goku Effect to The Superman Effect in just one small leap. Basically, Naruto went from a character that could overcome any challenge all the while strugglee with gaining power that most were given at birth to "here is all this power because you are a *insert blood heritage here with reicarnation regaining birthright power.*"

Naruto took the worst of both types and tried to make a series out of it. Everything wrong was smashed into eachother and told "this is how it works." First he did the Goku Effect problems where he cared more about selfish desires than the actual threats and believed that he could overcome just because "he wanted to" and nothing morally correct and then during the war arc went into the Superman Effect where he was given infinite power through "hidden means," but didn't care about the greater good when he felt just one life taken was more important than the risk of every life being taken. This causes an effect where yeah murder is bad, but sometimes is a necessary evil because the villain will just go out and murder more people.

And the worst about all of it is instead of showcasing how such behavior in both can lead to massive destruction and oversight, they instead had everything conveniently fix themselves so there was no risk either way and thus proving the point entirely off and destroying any moral compass the story originally should have had. Anti-climatic solutions for Anti-climatic problems.

Superman subverts his problems and oversight by way that he is aware of what might happen and vows to try and stop it before it even comes to pass. He is aware that he is taking a big risks, but also says that these villains will never succeed as long as he is around. This gives Superman a more leeway to show how facing challenges everyday can help you learn from your mistakes before. You notice the same plan never works twice against Superman and the villains don't even try.

Goku subverts it with both the Dragonballs and the fact that villains are just as eager as him for the fight and the enjoyment of said fight rather simple want and destruction. Also helps when most villains die by the end of the fight. Freeza could destroy everything if he wanted, but he wanted to rule over it more instead and only destroy if necessary to his cause or to instill fear in what he is ruling. Only flex muslces to remind people you have them and get rid of resistence if need me. Remember that Freeza never killed without reason or pleasure. He just coveted it all.

Naruto tried to do both and failed so miserably with all of it....and worse never even let the hero be rewarded for his work. People say that Hinata was his reward, but it was not a reward he wanted or was actively seeking. It was a reward that people THOUGHT he deserved, but not one that was wanted. Superman wants peace and to protect everyone and he does and Goku wants a good fight which he gets. This is why these two are far more dynamically as characters and Naruto just fails on a hero level. kitten goals, pathetic outcomes, and less than satisfying rewards and gains.

What does this mean for Ichigo? Well, despite the rushed job and the fillers, Bleach is still a far more complete story. Ichigo had goals and knew what he wanted to do and he achieved most if not all of those goals.
Ichigo wanted to save Rukia, he got to save Rukia
Ichigo wanted to save Orihime, he got to save Orihime.
Ichigo wanted to feel complete with himself and avenge his mother, you can guess what he got....

There is nothing Ichigo got that he didn't want or didn't need. He didn't settle for a substitution, he got exactly what he wanted and the writer let him have it because he knew that Ichigo's goals was not a question of if, but rather a question of how. How is Ichigo going to achieve what he wants most? "Here, I will show you..." says Kubo.

Meanwhile in Naruto....It doesn't look like he got what he set out to do...."Well he did and you just have to accept that." says Kishimoto....How?...."Because I said so."

That is the difference between a good story....and a bad one...in my honest opinion.

 


Edited by James S Cassidy, 27 November 2017 - 10:02 PM.

My gofundme
https://www.gofundme...c-designer-fund

Δικός σου για να κρατάτε
Σ'αγαπώ

#47334 DrK

DrK

    Summoning Master

  • Summoning Master
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,459 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:30 PM

People say that Hinata was his reward, but it was not a reward he wanted or was actively seeking. 
 

Hinata doesn't work as a reward because he could have taken Hinata at any time. Hinata was a ready to eat dinner. This is not fulfilling for anyone. Also his conquest of Hinata was accompanied by the character death of Sakura. He gets to be with a girl he never wanted to be with while the one he did want to be with has her pride stripped away and her soul ripped into tiny little pieces. And both Naruto and the reader observe this process.


Edited by DrK, 27 November 2017 - 09:30 PM.


#47335 James S Cassidy

James S Cassidy

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,831 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:40 PM

Hinata doesn't work as a reward because he could have taken Hinata at any time. Hinata was a ready to eat dinner. This is not fulfilling for anyone. Also his conquest of Hinata was accompanied by the character death of Sakura. He gets to be with a girl he never wanted to be with while the one he did want to be with has her pride stripped away and her soul ripped into tiny little pieces. And both Naruto and the reader observe this process.

Exactly, but some will say that she is that reward for all his hard work. I bet even Analyzer might say this too. I also like how you mentioned a "Ready-to-Eat dinner" basically that Hinata is merely a microwave dinner after the original home cooked made from scratch dinner was burnt.

Crappy goals, pathetic outcomes, and less than satisfying rewards and/or gains.

Naruto wanted Sakura....didn't get her and had to settle for Hinata.
Naruto wanted Sasuke to come back to the village...he barely sees him in the village at all and Sasuke just travels never staying or doing missions with him.
Naruto wanted to be Hokage....the job sucks and he doesn't really do anything.
Naruto wanted attention...he got attention, but now he doesn't care because his true focus was Sasuke.
Naruto wanted to keep his promises....he kept them, but he got nothing to show for it really.

Everything he achieved is either lackluster or he didn't gain it at all and settled for what he thinks is the next best outcome.

What a crappy hero and an even crappier story.
 


Edited by James S Cassidy, 27 November 2017 - 09:42 PM.

My gofundme
https://www.gofundme...c-designer-fund

Δικός σου για να κρατάτε
Σ'αγαπώ

#47336 Gravenimage

Gravenimage

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,535 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Pearl Ponce Puerto Rico

Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:42 PM

Exactly, but some will say that she is that reward for all his hard work. I bet even Analyzer might say this too. I also like how you mentioned a "Ready-to-Eat dinner" basically that Hinata is merely a microwave dinner after the original home cooked made from scratch dinner was burnt.

Crappy goals, pathetic outcomes, and less than satisfying rewards and/or gains.

Naruto wanted Sakura....didn't get her and had to settle for Hinata.
Naruto wanted Sasuke to come back to the village...he barely sees him in the village at all and Sasuke just travels never staying or doing missions with him.
Naruto wanted to be Hokage....the job sucks and he doesn't really do anything.
Naruto wanted attention...he got attention, but now he doesn't care because his true focus was Sasuke.

Everything he achieved is either lackluster or he didn't gain it at all and settled for what he thinks is the next best outcome.

What a crappy hero.
 

 

True I wonder what would Minato and Kushina say to Naruto if they saw him married to Hinata? 


Gravenimage

Lone Wolf of the Grave








#47337 DrK

DrK

    Summoning Master

  • Summoning Master
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,459 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:45 PM

Exactly, but some will say that she is that reward for all his hard work. I bet even Analyzer might say this too. I also like how you mentioned a "Ready-to-Eat dinner" basically that Hinata is merely a microwave dinner after the original home cooked made from scratch dinner was burnt.

Sakura was an elaborate and masterfully cooked five course meal for him. Hinata is a bucket of fried chicken he decided to pick up because he couldn't afford it, and then Sakura was rendered fast food herself.

 

In the end Kishi threw all of his characters into the trash bin. Nothing good or admirable is retained.


Edited by DrK, 27 November 2017 - 09:46 PM.


#47338 James S Cassidy

James S Cassidy

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,831 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:49 PM

Sakura was an elaborate and masterfully cooked five course meal for him. Hinata is a bucket of fried chicken he decided to pick up because he couldn't afford it, and then Sakura was rendered fast food herself.

 

In the end Kishi threw all of his characters into the trash bin. Nothing good or admirable is retained.

And it stinks cause it is still sitting there with people going: "It's not trash...it is a treasure."

I guess someone else's trash truly is someone else's treasure.

Talk about throwing away Thanksgiving to settle for McDonald's


Edited by James S Cassidy, 27 November 2017 - 09:50 PM.

My gofundme
https://www.gofundme...c-designer-fund

Δικός σου για να κρατάτε
Σ'αγαπώ

#47339 DrK

DrK

    Summoning Master

  • Summoning Master
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,459 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 November 2017 - 09:50 PM

And it stinks cause it is still sitting there with people going: "It's not trash...it is a treasure."

I guess someone else's trash truly is someone else's treasure.

And a certain poster here can't tell the difference between filet mignon and Burger King when it comes to characterization.



#47340 RulesofNature

RulesofNature

    Chakra Water Walker

  • Chakra Water Walker
  • PipPip
  • 447 posts

Posted 27 November 2017 - 11:31 PM

Sometimes I wonder something. Naruto's marriage just feels like the Japanese stereotype to me. He married the Yamato Nadesico-type who acts as a stay-at-home mother, he has a job he works himself himself to the bone, he doesn't have time for his family but it's presented as his kid being a brat unable to grasp how important Daddy's work is, all while the importance of working for the good of the community is stressed. Konoha even goes from a magical Ninja village to being more like a modern city.

 

It just feels like the end of the series was him growing up and living not in the fantasy world of his youth, but rather becoming an adult in a world closer to our real one. Naruto didn't become Hokage, he became a salaryman married to the Japanese ideal. His adventure is over, now he has responsibility. His son inherits the series and goes on his own adventures, but this is all meant to lead to him understanding his father's beliefs later on.

 

Sakura is more like a character out of an anime. If Naruto is supposed to grow up and become a respectable Japanese adult. he had to put girls like her behind him. 


iSP2FNe.png

Just making your day a little brighter.





9 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 9 guests, 0 anonymous users