54216 replies to this topic

[TheFirstEvil100]

Which is nearly impossible since Toriyama himself can't get it right. When you even have Toriyama having to go back through his own work to try to remember how powerful Goku is disheartening.

Look what you started Ultranx
 

 

Wrong. Wrong on all fronts. At max level Superman is multi-universal+ power as stated by the Strange Visiter comic of Adventures of Superman #48.

You also mention Superman being knocked out with planet busting punches and star exploding.....wrong.
When Superman did his infinite mass punch to destroy the moon it didn't knock him out. In fact, he faked it to bring the villain out of hiding and it did no damage to him. Superman wasn't knocked out by going through a supernova 50 times the Kelper supernova.
Even so, this wasn't Superman's maximum potential and only a place in their timeline. Should I say that Cell beating Goku is proof that Goku can't beat Superman? No of course not, that would be stupid.

Buu was going to use an attack that was going to destroy the Earth 10 times over and Goku was kittening himself. If he can destroy the universe, why would he be scared of that?

I also don't believe the whole "Goku is universal" kitten either. Beerus is not even described as a universe buster and yet Goku can't defeat him. He can't even beat Jiren and Caulifa. I hope I spelled that right. Beerus has been known to destroy galaxies before.

Superman is able to keep up with the Flash, is faster and stronger than wonder woman, and has learned tons of Martial Arts from Batman, Black Kat, and even Mongul the II. So he has combat knowledge and even even perceive things going faster than light, on a molecular level, and can see through anything, but lead. He has tangles weith gods, magical deities, and more and still standing. He defeated death itself and even a time warper.

Superman is faster than light, but there is one thing people keep forgeting to mention....Nothing with mass can go faster than the speed of light and going 99% the speed of light would cause tons of damage to the Earth. Goku has been mortally injured by a Freeza henchman laser. This is not even looking at Supernovas. I also like how blowing up the sun supposedly doesn't kill Goku, but it kills almost everything else in the DBZ universe.

As for the combat speed....I suggest you read this
http://www.outskirts...t-speed-fallacy

The "combat speed argument" is such a bullcrap things because every DBZ fan brings this one up, but has no clear cut definition of how to calculate FTL combat speed.
How do you calculate it?
If it is how fast you can go + your reaction time+processing speed than Superman can do all three faster than light.
Same breath, DBZ fans say that Goku's IT is combat speed even though he has failed using in combat at times especially againts Buu, but The Flash fight Zoom going faster than time itself throwing punches is considered not combat speed. What the actual fudge?

In truth, noone can really fight FTL because you would dematerialize and become light itself. Nothing with mass can go faster than light. Only the Flash can really do this and the Flash has never beaten Superman in a fight. If combat speed determined the winner then how does Flash lose to Superman in a fight?

Though funny enough, Superman has been proven that he doesn;t move himself forward, he moves space around him. Superman's powers are quantum mechanic.

So unless you can give me specifics on what determines combat speed and how do you calculate it, then this is not a true argument to use? You also don't even take into the durability of each character since Superman has survived massive amounts of damage that Goku can't even begin to calculate.

Look at this and get an idea:


And still, If Goku is the most powerful, why is he getting his ass whopped by characters in his own series? At least Superman has an excuse with this in that he only puts out as much as he needs rather than always going 100% for two reasons: 1. He doesn't want to kill and 2. Superman doesn't like to cause damage if he can avoid it.

Shall I bring the World of Carboard speech again?


Maybe Ichigo should have beaten Naruto because "He has a higher combat speed than Naruto" and he technically does.

 

 

 

I saw a fanart once of the whole Naruto the Last and such of stuff and Madara was sitting over everyone saying "That's right. Sleep my children and have wonderful dreams."

Very true James I love Dragon ball and all but I know Superman is powerful only one who can beat Superman is himself I like to come up with more fun twists like what is TFS Alucard workd with Superman, now that would be funny, like he goes to attack Lex or Lex send some men to attack and well we both know James what Alucard would do.

 

That what I come up with if other heroes worked for Superman and friends as good guys won't fight each other unless brainwashed, besides like I said I don't get in the whole who wins in a fight I just watch for the blood, and all I want is for Hinata to kittening be killed in a Death Battle.

 

With the last yeah wish it was so and as I said does fixs some things but not all mind you.

[Illnevergiveup3]

Which is nearly impossible since Toriyama himself can't get it right. When you even have Toriyama having to go back through his own work to try to remember how powerful Goku is disheartening.

Look what you started Ultranx
 
 
Wrong. Wrong on all fronts. At max level Superman is multi-universal+ power as stated by the Strange Visiter comic of Adventures of Superman #48.

You also mention Superman being knocked out with planet busting punches and star exploding.....wrong.
When Superman did his infinite mass punch to destroy the moon it didn't knock him out. In fact, he faked it to bring the villain out of hiding and it did no damage to him. Superman wasn't knocked out by going through a supernova 50 times the Kelper supernova.
Even so, this wasn't Superman's maximum potential and only a place in their timeline. Should I say that Cell beating Goku is proof that Goku can't beat Superman? No of course not, that would be stupid.

Buu was going to use an attack that was going to destroy the Earth 10 times over and Goku was kittening himself. If he can destroy the universe, why would he be scared of that?

I also don't believe the whole "Goku is universal" kitten either. Beerus is not even described as a universe buster and yet Goku can't defeat him. He can't even beat Jiren and Caulifa. I hope I spelled that right. Beerus has been known to destroy galaxies before.

Superman is able to keep up with the Flash, is faster and stronger than wonder woman, and has learned tons of Martial Arts from Batman, Black Kat, and even Mongul the II. So he has combat knowledge and even even perceive things going faster than light, on a molecular level, and can see through anything, but lead. He has tangles weith gods, magical deities, and more and still standing. He defeated death itself and even a time warper.

Superman is faster than light, but there is one thing people keep forgeting to mention....Nothing with mass can go faster than the speed of light and going 99% the speed of light would cause tons of damage to the Earth. Goku has been mortally injured by a Freeza henchman laser. This is not even looking at Supernovas. I also like how blowing up the sun supposedly doesn't kill Goku, but it kills almost everything else in the DBZ universe.

As for the combat speed....I suggest you read this
http://www.outskirts...t-speed-fallacy

The "combat speed argument" is such a bullcrap things because every DBZ fan brings this one up, but has no clear cut definition of how to calculate FTL combat speed.
How do you calculate it?
If it is how fast you can go + your reaction time+processing speed than Superman can do all three faster than light.
Same breath, DBZ fans say that Goku's IT is combat speed even though he has failed using in combat at times especially againts Buu, but The Flash fight Zoom going faster than time itself throwing punches is considered not combat speed. What the actual fudge?

In truth, noone can really fight FTL because you would dematerialize and become light itself. Nothing with mass can go faster than light. Only the Flash can really do this and the Flash has never beaten Superman in a fight. If combat speed determined the winner then how does Flash lose to Superman in a fight?

Though funny enough, Superman has been proven that he doesn;t move himself forward, he moves space around him. Superman's powers are quantum mechanic.

So unless you can give me specifics on what determines combat speed and how do you calculate it, then this is not a true argument to use? You also don't even take into the durability of each character since Superman has survived massive amounts of damage that Goku can't even begin to calculate.

Look at this and get an idea:


And still, If Goku is the most powerful, why is he getting his ass whopped by characters in his own series? At least Superman has an excuse with this in that he only puts out as much as he needs rather than always going 100% for two reasons: 1. He doesn't want to kill and 2. Superman doesn't like to cause damage if he can avoid it.

Shall I bring the World of Carboard speech again?


Maybe Ichigo should have beaten Naruto because "He has a higher combat speed than Naruto" and he technically does.
 
 
 
I saw a fanart once of the whole Naruto the Last and such of stuff and Madara was sitting over everyone saying "That's right. Sleep my children and have wonderful dreams."

well said. You said some of what I had to say for me. I did not want to turn it into a full blown debate.

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 23 November 2017 - 10:58 PM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

Is that an actual image from the Manga???

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Thats precisely the point. IT WOULD have been better for most of the characters involved. Sakura's dream would have been to marry Sasuke by "canon" but her dream would also have Sasuke ACTIVELY in her life, with her child. Naruto's would have been to be Hokage, probably with Sakura at that point in time and team 7 whole, his parents alive, ect. Sasuke would want his family back, and they would all have it. unless you think that the person wielding the IT can manipulate it on an individual scale and put a person in their utmost hell out of spite

Didn't Madara say that the one who casts IT actually does control the ones caught in it, hence why there would be "true peace" due to the wielder simply making people not fight. I mean, if it was solely just some dream world, that still wouldn't exclude the possibility of some sort of fighting and such to take place within it.

 

 

Very true James I love Dragon ball and all but I know Superman is powerful only one who can beat Superman is himself I like to come up with more fun twists like what is TFS Alucard workd with Superman, now that would be funny, like he goes to attack Lex or Lex send some men to attack and well we both know James what Alucard would do.

 

That what I come up with if other heroes worked for Superman and friends as good guys won't fight each other unless brainwashed, besides like I said I don't get in the whole who wins in a fight I just watch for the blood, and all I want is for Hinata to kittening be killed in a Death Battle.

 

With the last yeah wish it was so and as I said does fixs some things but not all mind you.

Heck, look at the first Injustice game. The "normal" Superman handily beats both Doomsday (he may have been controlled, but he was otherwise let loose to run wild against anyone who opposed the regime) and even pretty easily took down Regime Superman. Game play aside, why would that be? It's because the good Superman, the symbol of hope and justice he is, is literally made to beat those who try to tear him down, including darker / evil versions of himself when one might think it would be an endless fight.

Like you, I like Dragon Ball more than Superman, but I can understand why Superman easily wins and it just annoys me to AGAIN see the YouTube comment section filled with whiners demanding that DEATH BATTLE! do a THIRD video that has Goku with his Ultra Instinct ability added in, and AGAIN believing that Goku would definitely win if given the chance (the exact same type of argument made for SSj God), clearly ignoring the message of the previous two videos - that Superman is "as powerful as he needs to be". The only way Goku could win is if Superman is ridiculously restricted, which would make Goku winning meaningless, which, funnily enough, is something Goku himself would NOT want. He would rather fight Superman while they're both at their absolute strongest and lose rather than be handed a pointless win due to Superman holding back or forcibly being held back for any reason. It's why the animated battle has Goku getting rid of the Kryptonite; it's something that Goku would actually do in such a situation and yet you'll have so-called "fans" try to completely ignore or change Goku's character just to give him any sort of supposed edge.

[James S Cassidy]

Didn't Madara say that the one who casts IT actually does control the ones caught in it, hence why there would be "true peace" due to the wielder simply making people not fight. I mean, if it was solely just some dream world, that still wouldn't exclude the possibility of some sort of fighting and such to take place within it.

If the Matrix taught us anything it is that a "perfect utopia" causes our minds to reject that reality and break free. The human mind is too strong and the heart is too strong to be completely controlled unless certain requirements are met.

No doubt, if this is an IT, some conflict needs to be made in order for the mind to process it and convince it it is real. Being too perfect causes our minds to questions.

 

Heck, look at the first Injustice game. The "normal" Superman handily beats both Doomsday (he may have been controlled, but he was otherwise let loose to run wild against anyone who opposed the regime) and even pretty easily took down Regime Superman. Game play aside, why would that be? It's because the good Superman, the symbol of hope and justice he is, is literally made to beat those who try to tear him down, including darker / evil versions of himself when one might think it would be an endless fight.

Like you, I like Dragon Ball more than Superman, but I can understand why Superman easily wins and it just annoys me to AGAIN see the YouTube comment section filled with whiners demanding that DEATH BATTLE! do a THIRD video that has Goku with his Ultra Instinct ability added in, and AGAIN believing that Goku would definitely win if given the chance (the exact same type of argument made for SSj God), clearly ignoring the message of the previous two videos - that Superman is "as powerful as he needs to be". The only way Goku could win is if Superman is ridiculously restricted, which would make Goku winning meaningless, which, funnily enough, is something Goku himself would NOT want. He would rather fight Superman while they're both at their absolute strongest and lose rather than be handed a pointless win due to Superman holding back or forcibly being held back for any reason. It's why the animated battle has Goku getting rid of the Kryptonite; it's something that Goku would actually do in such a situation and yet you'll have so-called "fans" try to completely ignore or change Goku's character just to give him any sort of supposed edge.

Like they said, it is just the core of their character and as I said I even think Saitama can beat Goku because of that same principle. Saitama and Superman are meant to be unbeatable and to always win, while Goku has never been invincible and has been beaten.

I do hate the argument: "Well, Goku is a better character." Sorry, but no. They are just different characters with different motives in mind and different story molds.

Goku can and will get more powerful, but so will Superman. As long as their stories are written they will always become stronger or faster or better. The difference is that Goku has limits to give at all and Superman does not and he is not supposed to. I do really hate when people pull "Superman moments" to prove his worth, but want to over glorify Goku when there is no scenes to support it.

I really cannot see a time Goku is FTL especially when it takes 20 minutes to fly even a partial planet the size of Earth. Could I be wrong? Maybe, but the only thing faster than light in the DBZ universe that was confirmed FTL is Whis transportation bubble.


 

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Didn't Madara say that the one who casts IT actually does control the ones caught in it, hence why there would be "true peace" due to the wielder simply making people not fight. I mean, if it was solely just some dream world, that still wouldn't exclude the possibility of some sort of fighting and such to take place within it.

 

 

Its a good point but ultimately it IS just a dream world, and the amount of work you'd have to do to make everyone in the same dream and NOT fight is almost impossible. Envy breeds violence. Someone is going to have something in a shared dream, and the other person won't be able to have it unless they take it. Its why each Tsukiyomi victim is living in a pocket world, most likely influenced by their desires/fears while the controller only deigns to intervene when it becomes necessary, if at all. 

Imagine how difficult it is to know everything someone is thinking at once...because that SHOULD be what the caster is experiencing with IT. 

I guess as long as there is "no fighting." in the "Real reality." It doesn't really matter if someone dreams of a world of bloodshed? Its hard to imagine wantonly violent chars would want a peaceful dream. 

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 23 November 2017 - 11:50 PM.

[DrK]

Its a good point but ultimately it IS just a dream world, and the amount of work you'd have to do to make everyone in the same dream and NOT fight is almost impossible. Envy breeds violence. Someone is going to have something in a shared dream, and the other person won't be able to have it unless they take it. Its why each Tsukiyomi victim is living in a pocket world, most likely influenced by their desires/fears.

I guess as long as there is "no fighting." in the "Real reality." It doesn't really matter if someone dreams of a world of bloodshed? Its hard to imagine wantonly violent chars would want a peaceful dream. 

Yeah, it was made clear in the IT that their dreams were separate. Everyone is in cocoons and dreaming of their separate ideal world.

 

The dreams need to be separate for it to work for the reason you said. Multiple people will want the same thing.

 

Naruto wants to be with Sakura. Lee also wants to be with Sakura, and Sasuke doesn't want to be with Sakura. If they share a dream, Sakura can only be with one of them, so instead their dreams are separate and anyone who wants Sakura can be with an illusory Sakura.

 

This is a depressing idea, but it's still better than the reality where Sakura is with the one person who didn't want to be with her.

Edited by DrK, 23 November 2017 - 11:53 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Fanfiction= IT.  

Entrapping everyone in IT would have been legitimately the BEST writing Kishi had done since Part 1. So sad it was missed. 

[DrK]

Fanfiction= IT.  

Entrapping everyone in IT would have been legitimately the BEST writing Kishi had done since Part 1. So sad it was missed. 

Imagine if Madara got lazy, so rather than give every dude their ideal wife, he just had everyone's IT dream force them into a romance with Sakura since that was who his biggest enemy Naruto liked and was of the archetype of Obito's love as well.

 

This way, everyone is happy for the most part, except for Sasuke who is in his own personal hell for eternity.

Edited by DrK, 23 November 2017 - 11:58 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

OMFG I WANT TO WRITE THIS NOW. I literally hurt my kittening self I snort/laughed so hard.

kittening hell. 

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Fanfiction= IT.  

Entrapping everyone in IT would have been legitimately the BEST writing Kishi had done since Part 1. So sad it was missed. 

 

Or you have this https://shruko.wixsi...the-last-begins done by a different author.

[Illnevergiveup3]

Agreed and one proof is he can tank Darkseid omega beams and that a one hit k.o. and can track who ever it's launched at. And if someone says goku could lead it back to him supergirl did that and they hit Darkseid and it did nothing.
Now I really want to see Superman vs naruto given how both are op but I feel Superman still wins.

 

Naruto wouldn't even last a second in fight vs. Goku, let alone Superman. 

[Tsuki Hoshino]

b-b-but truth no jutsu stops everyone 

[ultranx]

Which is nearly impossible since Toriyama himself can't get it right. When you even have Toriyama having to go back through his own work to try to remember how powerful Goku is disheartening.

Look what you started Ultranx
 

 

Wrong. Wrong on all fronts. At max level Superman is multi-universal+ power as stated by the Strange Visiter comic of Adventures of Superman #48.

You also mention Superman being knocked out with planet busting punches and star exploding.....wrong.
When Superman did his infinite mass punch to destroy the moon it didn't knock him out. In fact, he faked it to bring the villain out of hiding and it did no damage to him. Superman wasn't knocked out by going through a supernova 50 times the Kelper supernova.
Even so, this wasn't Superman's maximum potential and only a place in their timeline. Should I say that Cell beating Goku is proof that Goku can't beat Superman? No of course not, that would be stupid.

Buu was going to use an attack that was going to destroy the Earth 10 times over and Goku was kittening himself. If he can destroy the universe, why would he be scared of that?

I also don't believe the whole "Goku is universal" kitten either. Beerus is not even described as a universe buster and yet Goku can't defeat him. He can't even beat Jiren and Caulifa. I hope I spelled that right. Beerus has been known to destroy galaxies before.

Superman is able to keep up with the Flash, is faster and stronger than wonder woman, and has learned tons of Martial Arts from Batman, Black Kat, and even Mongul the II. So he has combat knowledge and even even perceive things going faster than light, on a molecular level, and can see through anything, but lead. He has tangles weith gods, magical deities, and more and still standing. He defeated death itself and even a time warper.

Superman is faster than light, but there is one thing people keep forgeting to mention....Nothing with mass can go faster than the speed of light and going 99% the speed of light would cause tons of damage to the Earth. Goku has been mortally injured by a Freeza henchman laser. This is not even looking at Supernovas. I also like how blowing up the sun supposedly doesn't kill Goku, but it kills almost everything else in the DBZ universe.

As for the combat speed....I suggest you read this
http://www.outskirts...t-speed-fallacy

The "combat speed argument" is such a bullcrap things because every DBZ fan brings this one up, but has no clear cut definition of how to calculate FTL combat speed.
How do you calculate it?
If it is how fast you can go + your reaction time+processing speed than Superman can do all three faster than light.
Same breath, DBZ fans say that Goku's IT is combat speed even though he has failed using in combat at times especially againts Buu, but The Flash fight Zoom going faster than time itself throwing punches is considered not combat speed. What the actual fudge?

In truth, noone can really fight FTL because you would dematerialize and become light itself. Nothing with mass can go faster than light. Only the Flash can really do this and the Flash has never beaten Superman in a fight. If combat speed determined the winner then how does Flash lose to Superman in a fight?

Though funny enough, Superman has been proven that he doesn;t move himself forward, he moves space around him. Superman's powers are quantum mechanic.

So unless you can give me specifics on what determines combat speed and how do you calculate it, then this is not a true argument to use? You also don't even take into the durability of each character since Superman has survived massive amounts of damage that Goku can't even begin to calculate.

Look at this and get an idea:


And still, If Goku is the most powerful, why is he getting his ass whopped by characters in his own series? At least Superman has an excuse with this in that he only puts out as much as he needs rather than always going 100% for two reasons: 1. He doesn't want to kill and 2. Superman doesn't like to cause damage if he can avoid it.

Shall I bring the World of Carboard speech again?


Maybe Ichigo should have beaten Naruto because "He has a higher combat speed than Naruto" and he technically does.

 

 

 

I saw a fanart once of the whole Naruto the Last and such of stuff and Madara was sitting over everyone saying "That's right. Sleep my children and have wonderful dreams."

what I started? you're the one that brought up superman like I even cared about that fight.  all I did was make a comment about how I disagreed with you on death battle and you blew it out of proportion acting like it was about goku vs superman, enough with the death battle mess good grief dude. you call me a dbz fanboy but you're the one always bringing up superman, I didn't bring goku up in my first comment at all, all I said was I disagreed with some of the things in your comment but wasn't going to go into detail and you made my comment out to be bigger than it was. the only one caring about goku vs superman is you apparently. now if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to reading one piece, watching a playthrough of .hack, playing sonic forces, and playing pokemon ultra sun, all things I care more about than this discussion. hopefully when I come back the thread will be back on topic.

 

also to clarify since apparently I have to since you seem to have this mindset of me being a dbz fanboy who cares about goku beating superman, when I said death battle was wrong, I meant for example what they got wrong in android 18 vs captain marvel, the speed calcs of goku, or not giving ryu hayabusa all his powers when he has a hayabusa falcon spirit that revives him when he dies making him basically immortal(and yes, that is a story ability, not just a game mechanic) so he should have wore strider down. the sonic vs mario thing, there are countless other fights they've gotten something wrong on too. also the megaman vs astroboy fight where they nerfed megaman, since the comics aren't canon and are their own thing and megaman has used 30+ weapons in megaman the wily wars without going crazy like those comics said he would, which is contradictory.  I just don't like death battle in general and how egotistical they are and their way of doing things, has nothing to do with who wins or loses, I don't care about the fights, I prefer heroes fighting villains, not heroes vs heroes.

 

 

 

also, goku dropped his guard so his ki wasn't protecting him anymore, that's why the laser hit. ki users use their ki to nullify attacks like that, its not a constantly active bulletproof ability like superman, I do not know why I keep having to tell you this. he did beat caulifla, he beat both her and kale and they had to resort to potara fusing, then he beat the potara fusion with ultra instinct. congrats, you proved you don't know what's going on with super at all and are downplaying everything. also goku and beerus's punches colliding caused shockwaves that would destroy the universe, and that was when goku and beerus weren't holding back on their punches, the reason super saiyan blue looks weaker is they're manipulating their ki and strength better to minimize damage like that.so something like that doesn't happen again. if they didn't what's the point of fighting in a tournament to save your universe if you end up destroying your universe in a fight?  heck its even been stated beerus and champa fighting would destroy the universe. now can we drop this topic? superman does this superman does that, I don't care, I just don't like death battle and how they do things. geez.

Edited by ultranx, 24 November 2017 - 08:26 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

Naruto wouldn't even last a second in fight vs. Goku, let alone Superman.

I say Superman cause both are so op but Superman beats naruto like nothing, I complain about the Jesus symbolism with Superman alot but I take it over the naruto Jesus symbolism. Beside naruto worse messiah ever along with neo from the matrix. All that crap in the war is Bascially naruto's fault along with sakura and Kakashi fault to. Hell naruto is full of irresponsible jackass's.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

I doubt Naruto could beat Sora from Kingdom Hearts.

[DrK]

Anyone who can do anything on a planetary scale stomps Naruto. Saiyan Saga Vegeta wastes him, probably with ease. Could Naruto even beat Raditz?

Edited by DrK, 24 November 2017 - 04:33 PM.

[Kasimir38]

Do you guys still ship NaruSaku? With them being older, and with the given situations? I mean, imagine Hinata and Sasuke would, kind of, mess up and both Naruto and Sakura don't want to be with them anymore. Would you still ship it or would you be like, NAAH, too late

[DrK]

Do you guys still ship NaruSaku? With them being older, and with the given situations? I mean, imagine Hinata and Sasuke would, kind of, mess up and both Naruto and Sakura don't want to be with them anymore. Would you still ship it or would you be like, NAAH, too late

If I'm Sakura, then yes, obviously. If I'm Naruto, then probably still yes. Though there would be some bitterness there, but it's not really in his character to hold anything against her. Probably they would be very happy and not really worry about the time wasted. This is assuming their characters from Shippuden and not whatever happened to them in the Last and later on.

 

I mean, let's say they get together in the timeframe of 700. Five years later, are they really still going to regret their mistakes? Their kids probably already moved out. They would probably have a child together by then. Does it really matter that much that they screwed up? They still have plenty of time to be together. It's not as wonderful as it could have been, but it could still be great and way better than the alternative.

Edited by DrK, 24 November 2017 - 04:44 PM.

[LuckyChi7]

i had this conversation with BlueStar yesterday, but Jio Freed from O-Parts Hunter could solo Naruto easily.