8493 replies to this topic

[ciardha]

No, 269-70 absolutely confirmed Sakura is in love with Naruto and she knows it. Sai even repeats it and we can tell Naruto acknowledges this. Plus Kishimoto himself stated that Sakura was being completely truthful about what she felt. There's no debate there at all. You can argue what degree she still retains any feelings for Sasuke, but Naruto comes first in her heart and soul, that was screamingly obvious even to Yamato and Sai right after they met her.

[KnS]

No Menma naruto doesn't.t have a girlfriend

Thanks for the confirmation.

I think that's very interesting. So... if I understand the RtN spoilers correctly, in the AU world the characters' personalities are opposite of the real world but that still made no change in the shipping. I'll summarize my understanding:

Sasuke == Not interested in any girls including Sakura.
AU!Sasuke == Interested in all girls but not Sakura specifically.

Hinata == Quiet, demure, and crushes on Naruto and possessively vows to hold his hand.
AU!Hinata == Outspoken, aggressive, and crushes on Naruto in a threatening and possessive way.

Sakura == In the genjutsu she initially has a desire to believe Sasuke might like her, but realizes he's a player. In real life she initially has a desire to believe Sasuke might like her, but realizes he's not a good person. In both the AU and real worlds, Sakura's focus, priority, and deepest feelings are for Naruto.

Naruto == In the genjutsu, Naruto is not interested in Hinata. In real life Naruto is not interested in Hinata. Even AU!Naruto is not interested in Hinata. In both the AU and real worlds, Naruto's deepest feelings are for Sakura.


I honestly don't see how Kishimoto could have made it any clearer. Naruto + Hinata is a zero sum in both universes. Sakura + Sasuke has only ever equaled 1. Naruto + Sakura = 2.

It's really all about the math.

Edited multiple times because apparently I cannot type. x__X

Edited by KnS, 30 July 2012 - 06:53 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Thanks for the confirmation.

I think that's very interesting. So... if I understand the RtN spoilers correctly, in the AU world the characters' personalities are opposite of the real world but that still made no change in the shipping. I'll summarize my understanding:

Sasuke == Not interested in any girls including Sakura.
AU!Sasuke == Interested in all girls but not Sakura specifically.

Hinata == Quiet, demure, and crushes on Naruto and possessively vows to hold his hand.
AU!Hinata == Outspoken, aggressive, and crushes on Naruto in a threatening and possessive way.

Sakura == In the genjutsu she initially has a desire to believe Sasuke might like her, but realizes he's a player. In real life she initially has a desire to believe Sasuke might like her, but realizes he's not a good person. In both the AU and real worlds, Sakura's focus, priority, and deepest feelings are for Naruto.

Naruto == In the genjutsu, Naruto is not interested in Hinata. In real life Naruto is not interested in Hinata. Even AU!Naruto is not interested in Hinata. In both the AU and real worlds, Naruto's deepest feelings are for Sakura.


I honestly don't see how Kishimoto could have made it any clearer. Naruto + Hinata is a zero sum in both universes. Sakura + Sasuke has only ever equaled 1. Naruto + Sakura = 2.

It's really all about the math.

Edited multiple times because apparently I cannot type. x__X

Actually, the way I saw Sasuke is that he doesn't care about girls at all. In AU, he flirts with all of them, but doesn't care about them at all, because he's a playboy. Shadow said Sakura realized Sasuke that he doesn't care about her at all, which is why she left and cried.

[KnS]

Actually, the way I saw Sasuke is that he doesn't care about girls at all. In AU, he flirts with all of them, but doesn't care about them at all, because he's a playboy. Shadow said Sakura realized Sasuke that he doesn't care about her at all, which is why she left and cried.

Just a different way of saying what I said. Saying AU!Sasuke is interested in all girls means he's not really interested in any of them. The point is his actions are selfish and cruel, and he has never appreciated or returned Sakura's feelings for him.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Just a different way of saying what I said. Saying AU!Sasuke is interested in all girls means he's not really interested in any of them. The point is his actions are selfish and cruel, and he has never appreciated or returned Sakura's feelings for him.

Oh ok. I read it wrong then. Just here playing Storm Generations. Got it for cheap. Trying to unlock characters. Anyway, so yeah, no matter what, Sasuke is not the right guy for her.

[Traci]

Thanks for the confirmation.

I think that's very interesting. So... if I understand the RtN spoilers correctly, in the AU world the characters' personalities are opposite of the real world but that still made no change in the shipping. I'll summarize my understanding:

Sasuke == Not interested in any girls including Sakura.
AU!Sasuke == Interested in all girls but not Sakura specifically.

Hinata == Quiet, demure, and crushes on Naruto and possessively vows to hold his hand.
AU!Hinata == Outspoken, aggressive, and crushes on Naruto in a threatening and possessive way.

Sakura == In the genjutsu she initially has a desire to believe Sasuke might like her, but realizes he's a player. In real life she initially has a desire to believe Sasuke might like her, but realizes he's not a good person. In both the AU and real worlds, Sakura's focus, priority, and deepest feelings are for Naruto.

Naruto == In the genjutsu, Naruto is not interested in Hinata. In real life Naruto is not interested in Hinata. Even AU!Naruto is not interested in Hinata. In both the AU and real worlds, Naruto's deepest feelings are for Sakura.


I honestly don't see how Kishimoto could have made it any clearer. Naruto + Hinata is a zero sum in both universes. Sakura + Sasuke has only ever equaled 1. Naruto + Sakura = 2.

It's really all about the math.

Edited multiple times because apparently I cannot type. x__X

Eh... I wouldn't say Hinata is possessive of Naruto based on these definitions. During 573, it seemed like she was simply sure that Naruto would accept her romantic advances. If Naruto were to reject her, I don't think she would get all spazzy about it. She wouldn't be like, "Grr, Sakura can't have you!" That's possessive, imo.

Granted, what made Hinata so sure that Naruto would accept her? Although the movie isn't canon, I think it's fair to take writer's intention into account and conclude that Naruto is romantically interested in Sakura. What happened? Looks like Naruto is taking a few pointers from AU!Sasuke

I'm not too worried about it, though. I guess this could foreshadow NaruHina, just like a declaration Naruto made could foreshadow his death.

I do agree with everything else you said, though.

1.
jealously opposed to the personal independence of, or to any influence other than one's own upon, a child, spouse, etc.
2.
desirous of possessing, especially excessively so: Young children are so possessive they will not allow others to play with their toys; a possessive lover.

Edited by Traci, 30 July 2012 - 07:45 PM.

[redragon88]

Oh ok. I read it wrong then. Just here playing Storm Generations. Got it for cheap. Trying to unlock characters. Anyway, so yeah, no matter what, Sasuke is not the right guy for her.

Do you, or anyone for that matter, think that the reason Sakura still holds on to her romantic feelings for Sasuke is because she still wants to be acknowledged by him? She might feel that he never saw her as an equal so she holds on to her feelings, even if they are painful, until he tells her otherwise.

If that's the case then Sakura's closure with Sasuke could be either:

- Sasuke somehow finally acknowledges her as being a valuable teammate when they were young.
- Sakura decides for herself that she doesn't need Sasuke's acknowledgement, she decides that her worth is decided by herself.

I think the first one could be better. When it comes to her feelings for Sasuke she places herself in a position inferior to him, but when it's with Naruto you can tell that she sees herself as having a relationship of equality with him. If Sasuke finally acknowledges her as an equal then she can finally let go of her previous feelings for him which put her in a position of inferiority. Therefore, finally being able to forge a new equal bond with Sasuke which could represent true friendship instead of the immature feelings she has for him now.

[KnS]

Eh... I wouldn't say Hinata is possessive of Naruto based on these definitions. During 573, it seemed like she was simply sure that Naruto would accept her romantic advances.

I was using possessively in the "manifesting possession or the desire to own" definition, and I stand by it. Hinata's determination to hold Naruto's hand -- without any apparent consideration as to what his feelings might be on the matter -- is possessive in nature, and a clear expression of the "desire to own."

Just as AU!Sasuke's playboy cruelty is a mirror of his apathetic cruelty in the real world, AU!Hinata's aggressive attempt to lay claim to Naruto's affection is a mirror of her intentions in the real world. A mirror of AU!Hinata's jealousy of Sakura's relationship with Naruto may yet appear in the real world too, although it's likely to result in nothing more than passive recognition.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Do you, or anyone for that matter, think that the reason Sakura still holds on to her romantic feelings for Sasuke is because she still wants to be acknowledged by him? She might feel that he never saw her as an equal so she holds on to her feelings, even if they are painful, until he tells her otherwise.

If that's the case then Sakura's closure with Sasuke could be either:

- Sasuke somehow finally acknowledges her as being a valuable teammate when they were young.
- Sakura decides for herself that she doesn't need Sasuke's acknowledgement, she decides that her worth is decided by herself.

I think the first one could be better. When it comes to her feelings for Sasuke she places herself in a position inferior to him, but when it's with Naruto you can tell that she sees herself as having a relationship of equality with him. If Sasuke finally acknowledges her as an equal then she can finally let go of her previous feelings for him which put her in a position of inferiority. Therefore, finally being able to forge a new equal bond with Sasuke which could represent true friendship instead of the immature feelings she has for him now.

That's not a bad idea.

I do believe she needs a closure with Sasuke. It most likely won't be a romance one, rather acknowledge as a good friend. Like I said many times before, Sasuke will return to be a good guy, BUT he will not stay in Konoha because of so many conflicting issues. I do believe Sasuke will become a wanderer in the end along with Team Taka, which, for now, I'm starting to see that he is sticking to that team forever. That's like the best possible ending I can see for Sasuke without being dead. Sakura will acknowledge that he is a good guy, but not the guy to fall in love with. Naruto probably think it's his fault that Sasuke is not back with Konoha, but Sakura will cheer him up saying that it's ok this way. This is how I see it. Besides, there is a chance (for now) that Sasuke may end up with Karin because of the new discovery. An Uzumaki and an Uchiha will make history and it will be ironic that Sasuke befriended two Uzumakis, let alone both of them very important. As of now, I'm just waiting to see how it progress for Sasuke, and Kishi is building the hype of Karin confrontation with Sasuke if you noticed it.

So yeah, she will get her resolution with Sasuke, though it won't be grand as Naruto of course.

[ciardha]

Do you, or anyone for that matter, think that the reason Sakura still holds on to her romantic feelings for Sasuke is because she still wants to be acknowledged by him? She might feel that he never saw her as an equal so she holds on to her feelings, even if they are painful, until he tells her otherwise.

Well, it's obvious it's not something she wants to do, note the shame and depression in 540 she felt over still having enough of a reminant of those feelings, which she fully believed she had banished entirely when she made her confession of love to Naruto in 469-70. That's why I reject the conception her feelings about Sasuke are shallow. They aren't, but nor are they actually romantic love. I think Sai's words in 474 made Naruto realize what Sakura actually wanted from Sasuke was the same thing he had wanted from Sasuke in part 1- for Sasuke to acknowledge him. Sasuke finally did, even though he still told Naruto he wasn't his equal. Sakura doesn't even want Sasuke to acknowledge her as an equal like Naruto did, she just deep inside still has the wish he'd acknowledge her as a true member of team 7. Remember what Naruto says to Sasuke when he rescues Sakura? "She's a member of Team 7 too."

[Verilance]

a thought I had the other morning but...

could part of Sakura's love for Sasuke be based on the fact that he is everything her father is not...and perhaps her reaction at first to Naruto is that he is too much like her father???

I ma not sure how much Kishimoto had planned of Sakura's origin from the start but these questions puzzled me.

Inner Sakura (her true self) reacts to Naruto's prank with glee yet the reserved outer Sakura reacts negatively here



and here



in Chapter 4

[Traci]

I was using possessively in the "manifesting possession or the desire to own" definition, and I stand by it. Hinata's determination to hold Naruto's hand -- without any apparent consideration as to what his feelings might be on the matter -- is possessive in nature, and a clear expression of the "desire to own."

Just as AU!Sasuke's playboy cruelty is a mirror of his apathetic cruelty in the real world, AU!Hinata's aggressive attempt to lay claim to Naruto's affection is a mirror of her intentions in the real world. A mirror of AU!Hinata's jealousy of Sakura's relationship with Naruto may yet appear in the real world too, although it's likely to result in nothing more than passive recognition.

Oh, sorry... For the second definition, I just looked at this, "Young children are so possessive they will not allow others to play with their toys; a possessive lover" and made assumptions. I've never really heard possessive used like that before, so I just assumed. Sorry again...

[KnS]

Oh, sorry... For the second definition, I just looked at this, "Young children are so possessive they will not allow others to play with their toys; a possessive lover" and made assumptions. I've never really heard possessive used like that before, so I just assumed. Sorry again...

No problem, Traci. My original post wasn't all that clear (I was trying not to bore everyone with too much explanation, lol) and there were a lot of ways it could be interpreted.

[redragon88]

Well, it's obvious it's not something she wants to do, note the shame and depression in 540 she felt over still having enough of a reminant of those feelings, which she fully believed she had banished entirely when she made her confession of love to Naruto in 469-70. That's why I reject the conception her feelings about Sasuke are shallow. They aren't, but nor are they actually romantic love. I think Sai's words in 474 made Naruto realize what Sakura actually wanted from Sasuke was the same thing he had wanted from Sasuke in part 1- for Sasuke to acknowledge him. Sasuke finally did, even though he still told Naruto he wasn't his equal. Sakura doesn't even want Sasuke to acknowledge her as an equal like Naruto did, she just deep inside still has the wish he'd acknowledge her as a true member of team 7. Remember what Naruto says to Sasuke when he rescues Sakura? "She's a member of Team 7 too."

Well, with acknowledgement come the recognition of equality. Being recognized as a true member of Team 7 means Sasuke considers her an equal comrade in arms. It really goes hand in hand.

It's the same as when Naruto wanted to be recognized by the village. All of his life he was treated as trash by most of them, which caused Naruto to think they though of him as an inferior to them. That's why he came up with the idea of becoming Hokage, if achieved it then there would be no one in the village who would consider him inferior since the Hokage is respected by all.

Additionally, Sakura bond with Sasuke is by no means shallow, that is very true. She cares a great deal for him, just like Naruto, but since she did in fact experience a shallow love for him when younger those feelings remained in her heart. She confuses her care for Sasuke with romantic love because she still has those shallow feelings about him inside her. That is why I think the moment Sasuke acknowledges her she can let go of her childish love of him and form a bond with him that is based solely on how she cares for him the same way Naruto does.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Man, I can't wait for the next upcoming chapters, so this whole fiasco of NaruSaku vs NaruHina can end in this fight. I don't get it, the story is about Naruto. Why no one feel bad for Naruto not getting the girl he loves? Are they saying that the only time he fails is the romance? It makes no sense and disrespectful to Kishi's work.

Here's a question: If the movie was actually opposite of the real thing (NH and SS), what would we be doing here instead?

[KnS]

Man, I can't wait for the next upcoming chapters, so this whole fiasco of NaruSaku vs NaruHina can end in this fight. I don't get it, the story is about Naruto. Why no one feel bad for Naruto not getting the girl he loves? Are they saying that the only time he fails is the romance? It makes no sense and disrespectful to Kishi's work.

It seems to me that SS fans prefer to focus on Sasuke (and Sakura) rather than Naruto, while NH fans prefer to focus on Hinata. NS fans do concern themselves with Naruto's feelings and what he wants.

Here's a question: If the movie was actually opposite of the real thing (NH and SS), what would we be doing here instead?

I'm sorry, but I don't think I understand your question. Could you rephrase?

[redragon88]

Man, I can't wait for the next upcoming chapters, so this whole fiasco of NaruSaku vs NaruHina can end in this fight. I don't get it, the story is about Naruto. Why no one feel bad for Naruto not getting the girl he loves? Are they saying that the only time he fails is the romance? It makes no sense and disrespectful to Kishi's work.

Here's a question: If the movie was actually opposite of the real thing (NH and SS), what would we be doing here instead?

I have asked myself that question many time and learned that the best answer is not to think about it. People will want what they want, even if it goes against the wishes of the main character or the author himself. Each person has their personal reason, and many times it's more emotional than logical.

About your previous post about Sasuke becoming a wanderer with Team Taka by his side, it makes a lot of sense to me as well. Karin seems about the only girl who has the back bone to stand up to Sasuke, so even if she still liked him I hope she gives him a hard time for trying to kill her. I will clap if she actually pulls a kunai to his face and threatens to kill him in his sleep is he acts suspicious again. Sasuke and Karin both have dark personalities so they really make a good match.

And of the question about what would happen if the movie showed SS and NH, well, we would probably be pondering what was Kishi smoking when he made the movie.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I'm sorry, but I don't think I understand your question. Could you rephrase?

No problem.

Say the spoilers were complete opposite. No NaruSaku, but a very pro SS and NH. Examples like Naruto saying Hinata is amazing and he wants to be closer with her once they return home, or Sakura loves AU! Sasuke so much, she now confident that Sasuke will return her feelings. They no longer want each other. That said what would we be doing in here if those were the spoilers?

@redragon88: Lol. I couldn't agree more to your answer for both.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 30 July 2012 - 10:24 PM.

[KnS]

Say the spoilers were complete opposite. No NaruSaku, but a very pro SS and NH. Examples like Naruto saying Hinata is amazing and he wants to be closer with her once they return home, or Sakura loves AU! Sasuke so much, she now confident that Sasuke will return her feelings. They no longer want each other. That said what would we be doing in here if those were the spoilers?

I don't think it's any mystery, lol. Just look back on this thread to the time when so many saw the initial art spoilers and started tearing at their hair and clothes because they were immediately afraid RtN was going to be NH/SS.

To answer more seriously, I think we'd be doing our best to look at the evidence rationally and trying to figure out what message, if any, Kishimoto was sending with the movie themes as compared to the progression of the manga so far. So, the same thing we're doing now only less happily.

[4000TMNT]

Do you think the reason why Sakura loves Sasuke is because Sasuke is the extreme opposite of Sakura's father. Also the reason she hated Naruto at first is because Naruto almost act like her father.