54216 replies to this topic

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Or the fem Naru picks Gaara or Shikamaru over him and Sasuke is jealous. Again the only time Sasuke would ever be jealous over a woman. If Sakura left him for Naruto right now the only question he would ask is "So what do we do about Sarada?"

Would he even ask that?  He'd probably say; "Can I come too?"
 

[DrK]

For me the quality of Bleach dropped drastically after Soul Society, so it was more noticable. Early Part 2 Naruto is still really good, so it's a gradual thing that snuck up on us until we hit bottom of the barrel, war arc and the ending.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

For me the quality of Bleach dropped drastically after Soul Society, so it was more noticable. Early Part 2 Naruto is still really good, so it's a gradual thing that snuck up on us until we hit bottom of the barrel, war arc and the ending.

As an Ichihime "Shipper" ( i didn't really ship I just noticed that was the direction it was going in.) It got so convoluted and boring I basically stopped reading for long periods and then went to check up on the chars I liked at the end. I wasn't surprised about the ending. 

[DrK]

As an Ichihime "Shipper" ( i didn't really ship I just noticed that was the direction it was going in.) It got so convoluted and boring I basically stopped reading for long periods and then went to check up on the chars I liked at the end. I wasn't surprised about the ending. 

I was IchiRuki all the way but I completely lost interest so it didn't really hurt at all. It's funny because I originally liked NH so you would think i would like IH. But it's really different, as are IR and NS.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

^ yea its precisely that, A LOT of people fell into the loop that since NS and IR were alike personality wise it would = a relationship if one came out positively. The problem is that the build up and development was different for both sets. 

[DrK]

I think Ichigo would still have more of a connection with Rukia, but it just might not work out as a romantic thing.

 

It's not like with NS where Sakura's relationship with Naruto destroys Hinata's in every aspect. Orihime was at least on his radar and she was always there as a part of his group that did things. She was even central to a major story arc.

[LuckyChi7]

For me the quality of Bleach dropped drastically after Soul Society, so it was more noticable. Early Part 2 Naruto is still really good, so it's a gradual thing that snuck up on us until we hit bottom of the barrel, war arc and the ending.

 

 

I can understand that,  I feel that with bleach The Arrancar was like good+ material, and I'm mainly saying that cause from what i heard Kubo wanted that arc to be like a small arc, but due to the Espada being super popular the editors were telling him to drag it on. Which I will admit for me the pacing of the Arrancar Arc was it's biggest issue. Now if you read the arc as a whole I don't think it was that bad, and I've always thought the series should've ended after the Aizen fight cause it just felt so conclusive. I mean unless you wanna go for a happy ending then I'd say take the fullbring arc which even with that I think there was alot Kubo wanted to do, but since it wasn't that well in the rankings he had to rush it which really sucks  cause I would've loved to have seen what he personally had in mind with both his vision of the Arrancar Arc and the Fullbring Arc. But like I said before, Bleach to me ends with Ichigo looses his powers and Rukia disappearing there's just a symbolic and deep meaning that, and it just works.  

 

As for Naruto, I've said it before, but 5 Kage Summit is where I felt that something feels very off about this, and I was hoping to be wrong. Instead it turned out be correct in the end.  Which hmm...that actually gives me an idea. 

[VanitasDS76491]

In the end, it comes down to one simple problem...Naruto was too obssesed with Sasuke. This is the reason why people say Naruto has a secret homosexual fetish for Sasuke because of that obsession. The dude could never accept anything about Sasuke that he didn't want to. Naruto is almost as bad as the pro-enders...if you say anything bad about Sasuke...Naruto flipped his kitten...and not in "brotherly way" either. He did it in temper tantrums and hyperventilating. Who the hell hyperventilates over their friends being a douchebag?
I had a friend who became a douchebag too and I never once hyperventilated. Heck, the only time I came close to hyperventilating was when my fiance of 5 years left me because my mother controlled my life. I was extremely emotional, confused, and what not, but I still retained my senses. The worst I did was property destruction and lots of anger, but this was when my fiance broke up with me...NOT when my best friend treated people like kitten.
You know what I did after that? I secluded myself, spent time putting my life back together going from untterly not caring to making a promisee never to let my mother control me again like that. I didn't go after my fiance, I didn't obsess over her, I just let it go. Why couldn't Naruto do the same? Sasuke is a terrorist. He attacked and attempted to kill the Kages....that's terrorism. He threatened to control everyone and everything...that's terrorism.
All of this happened because Naruto could not let go.
People complain about Sakura's obsession, but in my mind Naruto was far more obsessed with Sasuke to the point that he dictated everyone's lives around him. Not just his own.
"Sakura you have to love Sasuke."
"Raikage, you have to let Sasuke live."
"Kakashi, you have to let me deal with Sasuke."
If it was me, I would be like,
"No, Naruto, I don't. F--- you and f--- your friendship. Sasuke made his choic and I am making mine. Sasuke has to be brought to justice."
"But...revenge is bad" Naruto would say. "How can we end the circle of hate?"
"Naruto. Shut up. You're trying to make it seem like I am the bad guy because I want to see justice for the families all because you don't want Sasuke to be hurt. F--- you."
"But...revenge...bad....no hate. I am begging you."
"Begging is for the weak. Did Sasuke stop when everyone begged him to stop? No. You want to stop me you're going to have to kill me. If you think Sasuke's life is more important than everyone else's, then you're going to have to kill me. I am not going to stop until justice is sought. If Sasuke puts up no resistance there will be no more blood shed, but if Sasuke chooses to fight then I have no control over what willl happen next. If I die, what will you do, Naruto? Will you see my life as my own choice or would you see Sasuke as the true cold blooded killer he is? I fight for justice. I will fight so that nothing bad will happen to people...at least not without punishing those who did the crime.Grow up."
Then go off looking for Sasuke. You never see characters like this. You never saw a character who was so adamant and so passionate about their goals like Naruto was obsessed with Sasuke. Everyone just fell for the TNJ every time.
You're going to run into people that are like "Well, too bad."

Clap, clap, clap well said James and I wish that example you showed happened.

[VanitasDS76491]

Even Sasuke is innocent here. To quote him in the Kage Summit Arc, "What the f*** is wrong with you?!" He didn't want Naruto to obsess over him. Naruto just did it against the wishes of EVERYONE else.

Yes that was where naruto's character started to take a dive, also if ay stayed in that mind and did go after sasuke he would be better but no cause naruto cries like a (as Freeza abridged calls vegeta) a little kitten and he stops hunting the guy that attacked his brother.
  

And, again, this is why I loved that bit with Ay taking Naruto's pathetic begging, throwing it back in his face, calling him a weak little b****, telling him to grow up and that this is the reality of things.
 
 


And Sasuke even tried to beat that into Naruto at the end of part one, hence the "How could you possibly understand?! I have lost everything! You never had anything to begin with!" line.
Naruto kept thinking that just because they were "alone" as kids (regardless of circumstances), that somehow made them "the same" on every level. This only further shows how Naruto doesn't truly know or understand anything about anyone unless they're much more similar to himself and yet we're expected to believe he's SO empathetic.

I actually agree with sasuke at the end of the kage summit on naruto needed to stop.
  

You know here is something I've been thinking about for a long time, and it's the topic of nostalgia. As far as I can remember I've seen tons an tons of people defend the Naruto series even when it comes to it's flaws especially the major a ss pools ya'll know what I'm referring to, and the ending especially because of Nostalgia.... 
 
Now here is the thing Nostalgia is a period or place of reminiscing fond memories. That by itself is very subjective. 
 
I don't think Nostalgia alone is enough to justify the quality of the series because Bleach to me I've got great memories of, but I don't use the Nostaglia of Bleach to justify it as an amazing series cause I know that yeah the series was great at this point, and could've been perfect before the quality went down. 
 
A series should be judged from a critical perspective not through the needs of nostalgia cause that just blinds you. The same thing can be said about Naruto, I've got great memories of Naruto more so from Part 1, then Part 2, but that doesn't decide my factor of the series being amazing. It just means the series was great here, and then it just went down. 
 
 
I mean lets face it most people will agree that Naruto Part 1 was amazing from start to finish. I agree with that too to an extent, but look at this way that's 244 chapters out of 700.  after that you've got loop of occasional goods, and a lot of what the hell is that? That's the rest of the 456 chapters. 
 
 
 
Last i check 244 chapters of Part 1 is 35% of the series 
The final 65% of the series is Part 2. 
 
 
Most of the problems the Naruto series has stems from Part 2 more so then Part 1, and once again that's 65% of the series that is saying something. I mean you guys know I really like the first half of Part 2,  but I won't pretend like the problems are there cause they stick out especially after Pain. 
 
 
You know what though, just on the topic of Nostalgia I'm gonna just share this. 
 

Ok I've said this before and I'll say it again just cause somethings nostalgia doesn't mean it's going to be great later on its why the Nostaglia critic exists.

[VanitasDS76491]

I was IchiRuki all the way but I completely lost interest so it didn't really hurt at all. It's funny because I originally liked NH so you would think i would like IH. But it's really different, as are IR and NS.

Ichiruki and narusaku all the way.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Even Cartman would shudder at SasuSaku.

[DrK]

Even Cartman would shudder at SasuSaku.

He would probably hate it because he's seen similar things from his own mother. Not as bad as SS, though. I doubt Cartman's mother would put up with the kitten that Sakura did just because the guy was handsome.

[TheFirstEvil100]

He would probably hate it because he's seen similar things from his own mother. Not as bad as SS, though. I doubt Cartman's mother would put up with the kitten that Sakura did just because the guy was handsome.

Remember DrK that this is all Kishi cause well he sees a women leaving a crazy SOB is bad for her.

 

Any other writer would have had her move on

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

At the end Sakura says to Sasuke "If you come back, I'm sure things can go back to the way they were..." When Sasuke has no interest in things going back to the way they were! His brother and the rest of his family are still dead. This would have offended and angered Sasuke so much.

 

But then he ends up marrying her? Seriously, the ending makes no sense at all.

It only further shows how Naruto (and Sasuke) was nowhere near mentally ready to be a Chunin, much less Kage. All they both had was brute power, but not the mental fortitude, no real ability to (or at least bothering to) strategize beforehand, an unwillingness to know when to retreat ("give up"), didn't pay that much attention to their surroundings, didn't truly care about their teammates (Naruto not wanting their involvement whereas Sasuke would sacrifice them), were extremely biased in their own personal interests more than those of others, and so on.

 

For me the quality of Bleach dropped drastically after Soul Society, so it was more noticable. Early Part 2 Naruto is still really good, so it's a gradual thing that snuck up on us until we hit bottom of the barrel, war arc and the ending.

For me, the hypocrisy of everyone supporting Team Ten's "need" for revenge against Kakuzu and Hidan over Asuma's death while still thinking Sasuke's "need" for revenge on Itachi was "wrong" was the first sign that something was off, then it just built up from there.

[DrK]

It only further shows how Naruto (and Sasuke) was nowhere near mentally ready to be a Chunin, much less Kage. All they both had was brute power, but not the mental fortitude, no real ability to (or at least bothering to) strategize beforehand, an unwillingness to know when to retreat ("give up"), didn't pay that much attention to their surroundings, didn't truly care about their teammates (Naruto not wanting their involvement whereas Sasuke would sacrifice them), were extremely biased in their own personal interests more than those of others, and so on.

The fact that Sasuke married Sakura showed that? Or the hypothetical anger of Sasuke that he didn't actually show in any manga panels? (They focused on Sakura's pitiful face the whole time) I mean, I don't disagree, but I didn't see how the text you quoted relates.

 

Though, this brings up a good question. How the kitten did Sakura get promoted to Jonin when everyone knew she was waiting for Sasuke? Didn't the fact that, I don't know, she's a completely crazy idiot now, discourage them from promoting her? She could have been given command of a squad of 12 year olds as a result. That could have terrible results. If Sasuke wanted her kids for an experiment Team Taka would perform, she'd just hand them over.

Edited by DrK, 21 November 2017 - 04:26 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Though, this brings up a good question. How the kitten did Sakura get promoted to Jonin when everyone knew she was waiting for Sasuke? Didn't the fact that, I don't know, she's a completely crazy idiot now, discourage them from promoting her? She could have been given command of a squad of 12 year olds as a result. That could have terrible results. If Sasuke wanted her kids for an experiment Team Taka would perform, she'd just hand them over.

 

And considering we dunno how Kakashi's tenure as Hokage went, there could be a lot of questionable decisions, similar to how it feels like everyone else is working up and down each part of Psycho Street to justify the ending!

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

He would probably hate it because he's seen similar things from his own mother. Not as bad as SS, though. I doubt Cartman's mother would put up with the kitten that Sakura did just because the guy was handsome.

 

I found out his reaction on November 5th 2014.

[James S Cassidy]

 

 

I can understand that,  I feel that with bleach The Arrancar was like good+ material, and I'm mainly saying that cause from what i heard Kubo wanted that arc to be like a small arc, but due to the Espada being super popular the editors were telling him to drag it on. Which I will admit for me the pacing of the Arrancar Arc was it's biggest issue. Now if you read the arc as a whole I don't think it was that bad, and I've always thought the series should've ended after the Aizen fight cause it just felt so conclusive. I mean unless you wanna go for a happy ending then I'd say take the fullbring arc which even with that I think there was alot Kubo wanted to do, but since it wasn't that well in the rankings he had to rush it which really sucks  cause I would've loved to have seen what he personally had in mind with both his vision of the Arrancar Arc and the Fullbring Arc. But like I said before, Bleach to me ends with Ichigo looses his powers and Rukia disappearing there's just a symbolic and deep meaning that, and it just works.  

 

As for Naruto, I've said it before, but 5 Kage Summit is where I felt that something feels very off about this, and I was hoping to be wrong. Instead it turned out be correct in the end.  Which hmm...that actually gives me an idea. 

It still gets me that Bleach, one of the top 3 of the new age Shonen trilogy, slightly drops in ranks and all the publishers are like "Alright, it is losing fans. Stop the anime and Kubo finish up the story quickly and we can move on." Meanwhile, Naruto and Boruto are losing fans more and more and it has dropped significanly since it first debut and they are like: "We have lost so much, but we can make it all back. Let's keep making the anime and writing the manga and see where it takes us."

I never understood this. Why are so many other great anime get cancelled almost immediatly as soon as they take a hit in the ratings, but Naruto and Boruto continue to be made despite almost nobody caring anymore.

 

[Shashank95]

 

I highly disagree on your first statement, if we're talking pairings, because NH and SS was always the intent. If we're not talking pairings, the Naruto Sasuke fight was also always intended. The ending was built up to, and I honestly think 700 is a fine chapter for what it is.

 

For NS you'd need to alter the Fake Confession, and likely remove Hinata as one of the easier work arounds to get to NS. The last ten chapters alone probably wouldn't suffice.

 

I'd argue NH is one of the most developed pairings, while I've given SS repeated criticism of being more told than shown.

 

 

 

Yes, he does say this, with the specific context being that it would appear fickle or shallow because she's moving onto this guy who is now a hero. Take the entire passage, not the quote you are twisting. You'll understand it a little better then. 

 

Sucks is subjective, but he seemed pretty purposeful on his intent, even has declared as much. Feel free to think it is lazy and sloppy, I disagree.

 

 

Umm for NS to happen, all you need to do is address the bench scene from chapter 3 or whatever, and burn chapter 699 and 700 from existence. You put too much weight on your belief in Hinata's non existent role in the plot. Erase Hinata from the story and nothing would change in terms of plot. 

 

 

 

 

I'd argue NH is one of the most developed pairings, while I've given SS repeated criticism of being more told than shown.

 

 

 

[DrK]

Umm for NS to happen, all you need to do is address the bench scene from chapter 3 or whatever, and burn chapter 699 and 700 from existence. You put too much weight on your belief in Hinata's non existent role in the plot. Erase Hinata from the story and nothing would change in terms of plot. 

The scenes with Naruto paying attention to Hinata during the war would look odd in retrospect, but not as strange as the CPR scene and Sakura's interaction with Minato.

 

Don't bother tho, you're just going to get "NS was sunk by the land of iron confession b/c there's clearly only one interpretation that Sakura was lying and truly felt nothing for Naruto because the ending proves that she only loves Sasuke. Since Kishimoto planned it all along!"

 

Circular argument. You can't change the ending because of the confession being fake which is proven true by the ending.

 

I'm currently getting PM with an argument that Sakura was always a braindead Sasuke worshipping zombie, because the ending portrayed her to be so. The ending which we know is an asspull apparently validates everything.

Edited by DrK, 21 November 2017 - 01:43 PM.