54216 replies to this topic

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I just read that as she wanted the dumbass finger poke. She's blushing in the same way as she was the first time, anyway.

 

It's quite pathetic to be begging for a gesture that simultaneously belittles you and distances you from the one giving it.

 

Truly the height of romance.

 

If you're right, then Kishi is history's greatest monster, though. I don't want to believe that he would actually find a way to be more cruel to Sakura than he is already being.

 

Thing to me, DrK, is kishimoto has been so cruel to all his characters in the long run sadly, otherwise, Naruto and Hinata would come off as romantic as they seemed when Studio Pierrot did The Last, and we also got how he has been to Sakura since the ending, which is why I see Naruto as one of the weakest endings to a manga potentially, and the only other one I can think of off the top of my head is Negima!'s ending being close to that too

[DrK]

 

Thing to me, DrK, is kishimoto has been so cruel to all his characters in the long run sadly, otherwise, Naruto and Hinata would come off as romantic as they seemed when Studio Pierrot did The Last, and we also got how he has been to Sakura since the ending, which is why I see Naruto as one of the weakest endings to a manga potentially, and the only other one I can think of off the top of my head is Negima!'s ending being close to that too

Well, with NH you can at the least assume that the passion has simply burned out after over a decade.

 

With SS, it's clearly always been this horrible, misanthropic garbage. With one of the most successful female characters who had everything going for her deciding to devote her life to someone who isn't interested in touching her or talking to her, and who never will be. Her life, interests, friends, and self-respect are of no value to her compared to this man who has hurt her more than anyone. And the man for some reason chose this zombie who only wants to be with him if he is a Konoha shinobi over a girl who was still in control of her own mental faculties around him and who wanted to be with him regardless of whether he was with Konoha or not, or even if he was evil. A girl with superior genetics and a bloodline. With the same genetics as his male best friend who he is clearly sexually attracted to.

 

I wish there was a way to delete the ending from my brain.

Edited by DrK, 20 November 2017 - 12:43 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Well, with NH you can at the least assume that the passion has simply burned out after over a decade.

 

With SS, it's clearly always been this horrible, misanthropic garbage. With one of the most successful female characters who had everything going for her deciding to devote her life to someone who isn't interested in touching her or talking to her, and who never will be. Her life, interests, friends, and self-respect are of no value to her compared to this man who has hurt her more than anyone. And the man for some reason chose this zombie who only wants to be with him if he is a Konoha shinobi over a girl who was still in control of her own mental faculties around him and who wanted to be with him regardless of whether he was with Konoha or not, or even if he was evil. A girl with superior genetics and a bloodline. With the same genetics as his male best friend who is clearly sexually attracted to.

 

I wish there was a way to delete the ending from my brain.

 

And we also can't forget too that the facts show as that Karin is Sarada's mom given the DNA test, and her having Sarada's umbilical cord, which is traditional for Japanese mothers to keep, which also can explain her having super strength since in the end, it was something Sakura trained to get, and so Sarada couldn't inherit it genetically. All of this **** really makes me wanna delete the ending from my brain too, so it makes me wish I had mental bleach for that.

[James S Cassidy]

The stuff I wrote in the thread on the general forum kinda erases the sentiment of "Naruto made Sakura fall in love with Sasuke" for me, because Sakura was just completely crazy by the end. If it had been Naruto's actions on that day that pushed her to that point of insanity, she would have certainly referenced it again. Because in that case, Naruto was the one who made her lose her mind. Like, if she were capable of acting like a normal person around Sasuke, I could see it. But she simply isn't rational anymore. If Naruto were to tell her about it right now, she'd be like "So? Big deal. Me and Sasuke-kun were always soulmates.

To me, Naruto didn't make Sakura fall in love with Sasuke, but he did reinforce the negative behavior she had. Sakura was ready to give up on Sasuke on three occasions and it was Naruto who kept pushing "I got to save Sasuke. Sasuke is important. Sasuke Sasuke Sasuke." It's funny how during the war arc and everything it was Naruto who was the most obsessive over Sasuke...not Sakura. Sakura just seemed to want to end it. She got tired of it, but as usual Narutp pushed it back into her. This si the same dude who refused to actually live his life because "Sasuke needed to be saved."

Sakura isn't rational anymore because Naruto was never rational to begin with and since she said she woukd "leave it to them" and Naruto keeps pushing for SS...it is no wonder Sakura is the way she is. Imagine if in the back of her mind she keeps saying "Well, Naruto said we were a couple so I can't disappoint him." Okay okay...maybe it is not THIS bad, but considering how everyone is more or less influenced into the relationships they were in instead of it happening naturally...well, I wouldn;t be surprised if Naruto pushed for SS to be together because he wanted to punish himself.

The only one Naruto noticed naturally was Sakura. He had to be cohersed into being with HInata.

It is also funny how Naruto could connect with the villains, connect with the Sasuke, and even understand how they felt, but Sakura he for some reason couldn't connect with her in this one moment. All the same, when I go back and look at that chapter... you notice that Naruto was surprised for most of it. Sakura said she loved him...he was surpised....he didn't just instantly say "You're lying" right as she confessed.

BUT...as soon as she pushed the Sasuke button...he went from confused to pissed and that is when she was lying. He believed her up to the point of "I don't care about Sasuke anymore." As soon as she said that, Naruto rejected her entirely. The pro-enders say he knew her confession was fake, but again reread that whole thing....he doesn't react negatively until after she mentions Sasuke, not before. Why is that? You think if he knew she was lying from the beginning he would have reacted then since he "knows her so much." If Sakura never mentioned Sasuke at all...would he believe her?

It is really hard to tell if it was a lie or not.What do we based that off of, what Naruto said? Naruto said Obito was the coolest guy too so how can we take his opinion lightly.

That's what confuses me. We can say it was a lie now, but back then all we had was Naruto's word and Sakura getting mad because he called her a liar. Why would you get mad if someone called you a liar if you know you were lying? Most people just break down.

To me, it all seems like the intent changed like you said.

[rikakim94]

I don't go that far, but it should never have happened. It wasn't good from any perspective.

 

I disagree any thing bad would have happen to narusaku regardless with kishi being fully in charge plus he cares to much for sasuke and he was willing to downplay narusakus relationship for that toxic one sided crush ( i refuse to call it strong bromance or friendship)   

 

You're right and it is also pointless. Still...the fact that Kishimoto was told that Sakura seemed like a liar, useless, manipulative, and downright a horrible girl....and he did nothing, but reinforce that behavior instead of fixing the problems never sat well with me. Sakura's confession was bad, but it wasn't irredeemable. He could have easily made Sakura be genuine about it and just have Naruto be the brat like he always is, but he didn't follow through with that one.

I don't know. The dude just didn't seem to care about pairing at all. He let the other team take care of it. As long as he got the ambiguously gay Sasuke and Naruto fight, he didn't care about anything else.

 

Thats why we should have never trust kishi and people who gave up the manga during iron arc where right about that.

Edited by rikakim94, 20 November 2017 - 06:22 AM.

[Phantom_999]

To me, Naruto didn't make Sakura fall in love with Sasuke, but he did reinforce the negative behavior she had. Sakura was ready to give up on Sasuke on three occasions and it was Naruto who kept pushing "I got to save Sasuke. Sasuke is important. Sasuke Sasuke Sasuke." It's funny how during the war arc and everything it was Naruto who was the most obsessive over Sasuke...not Sakura. Sakura just seemed to want to end it. She got tired of it, but as usual Narutp pushed it back into her. This si the same dude who refused to actually live his life because "Sasuke needed to be saved."

Sakura isn't rational anymore because Naruto was never rational to begin with and since she said she woukd "leave it to them" and Naruto keeps pushing for SS...it is no wonder Sakura is the way she is. Imagine if in the back of her mind she keeps saying "Well, Naruto said we were a couple so I can't disappoint him." Okay okay...maybe it is not THIS bad, but considering how everyone is more or less influenced into the relationships they were in instead of it happening naturally...well, I wouldn;t be surprised if Naruto pushed for SS to be together because he wanted to punish himself.

The only one Naruto noticed naturally was Sakura. He had to be cohersed into being with HInata.

It is also funny how Naruto could connect with the villains, connect with the Sasuke, and even understand how they felt, but Sakura he for some reason couldn't connect with her in this one moment. All the same, when I go back and look at that chapter... you notice that Naruto was surprised for most of it. Sakura said she loved him...he was surpised....he didn't just instantly say "You're lying" right as she confessed.

BUT...as soon as she pushed the Sasuke button...he went from confused to pissed and that is when she was lying. He believed her up to the point of "I don't care about Sasuke anymore." As soon as she said that, Naruto rejected her entirely. The pro-enders say he knew her confession was fake, but again reread that whole thing....he doesn't react negatively until after she mentions Sasuke, not before. Why is that? You think if he knew she was lying from the beginning he would have reacted then since he "knows her so much." If Sakura never mentioned Sasuke at all...would he believe her?

It is really hard to tell if it was a lie or not.What do we based that off of, what Naruto said? Naruto said Obito was the coolest guy too so how can we take his opinion lightly.

That's what confuses me. We can say it was a lie now, but back then all we had was Naruto's word and Sakura getting mad because he called her a liar. Why would you get mad if someone called you a liar if you know you were lying? Most people just break down.

To me, it all seems like the intent changed like you said.

 

All that to keep this bull shut "wuv twiango" going even though at that point it was not a love triangle, it was 2 idiots who couldn't see PAST that love triangle, are trying their damnedest to reinforce it and CAN NOT admit party 3 is toxic to both of them and they are happier (together) WITHOUT HIM

Edited by Phantom_999, 20 November 2017 - 01:03 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Who DIDN'T encourage Sakura's negative behavior though? Or Naruto's for that matter. Every adult failed them when it came to building them from children into mentally healthy adults.

[TheFirstEvil100]

Who DIDN'T encourage Sakura's negative behavior though? Or Naruto's for that matter. Every adult failed them when it came to building them from children into mentally healthy adults.

I agree I mean its a parents job to say who is bad and who is not I mean I said before I think that is I was Sakura brother I would not let a kitten like Sasuke near my sister and stopm on his nuts so hard that no kids can ever come from that kittened up clan, and would all die out.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I agree I mean its a parents job to say who is bad and who is not I mean I said before I think that is I was Sakura brother I would not let a kitten like Sasuke near my sister and stopm on his nuts so hard that no kids can ever come from that kittened up clan, and would all die out.

Its not even just her parents, ITS EVERYONE. Its her friends, its her teachers; Tsunade, Shizune, Kakashi They all know what Sasuke is like, they all know he is toxic. Naruto has seen the man try to kill her, and ALSO not give a flip when her life was in mortal peril, saying to his face "he didn't care." if she died, and he had no reason to love her. And yet he tacitly encourages the "relationship." 

I mean yea, ultimately Sakura is going to make her own choices, but for the love of all thats good SOMEONE at some point in the manga if it were really trying to send a positive message should have pulled her aside and really hashed this out with her. 

But Kishi doesn't care, since She'd be a floozy if she moved on from Sasuke  

[TheFirstEvil100]

Its not even just her parents, ITS EVERYONE. Its her friends, its her teachers; Tsunade, Shizune, Kakashi They all know what Sasuke is like, they all know he is toxic. Naruto has seen the man try to kill her, and ALSO not give a flip when her life was in mortal peril, saying to his face "he didn't care." if she died, and he had no reason to love her. And yet he tacitly encourages the "relationship." 

I mean yea, ultimately Sakura is going to make her own choices, but for the love of all thats good SOMEONE at some point in the manga if it were really trying to send a positive message should have pulled her aside and really hashed this out with her. 

But Kishi doesn't care, since She'd be a floozy if she moved on from Sasuke

Well you need to remember that this is Kishi the kitten up who loves Sasuke and the Uchiha the some dumb ass that tries to make up for all the Uchiha have done with "Cause they love too much which is the reason they all go mad" BS that is stupid and dumb cause Kishi knew many hated the Uchiha.

 

The same guy that added in reincarnation so Sasuke could live and not die.

 

So yeah why would Kishi care just as long as Sasuke is alive and happy who care but Kishi right I mean that is what I hate about Kishi as a writer,

 

Sasuke and the Uchiha and not like other bad guys like Spike or say like Negan they are all kittens right down to the core, which even bring up their lust for power we all know that Sasuke would never have sex with Sakura I mean Sasuke has always been about power so why would he sleep and give his seed to Sakura who in his eyes is nothing more than a lowly commoner who won't do nothing for his clan.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Its very difficult to even see how these two can exist in a room together, much less intimately. 

 

 

Sasuke and the Uchiha and not like other bad guys like Spike or say like Negan they are all kittens right down to the core, which even bring up their lust for power we all know that Sasuke would never have sex with Sakura I mean Sasuke has always been about power so why would he sleep and give his seed to Sakura who in his eyes is nothing more than a lowly commoner who won't do nothing for his clan.

For someone so concerned about his Clan he's not pulling his own weight in raising the remnants of it. How is Sarada Salad supposed to be "uchiha" when she has no idea what BEING one is? Even Sasuke has no clue what his values or ethics are in the long run. He's anchorless. 

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 20 November 2017 - 03:40 PM.

[DrK]

To me, Naruto didn't make Sakura fall in love with Sasuke, but he did reinforce the negative behavior she had. Sakura was ready to give up on Sasuke on three occasions and it was Naruto who kept pushing "I got to save Sasuke. Sasuke is important. Sasuke Sasuke Sasuke." It's funny how during the war arc and everything it was Naruto who was the most obsessive over Sasuke...not Sakura. Sakura just seemed to want to end it. She got tired of it, but as usual Narutp pushed it back into her. This si the same dude who refused to actually live his life because "Sasuke needed to be saved."

Sakura isn't rational anymore because Naruto was never rational to begin with and since she said she woukd "leave it to them" and Naruto keeps pushing for SS...it is no wonder Sakura is the way she is. Imagine if in the back of her mind she keeps saying "Well, Naruto said we were a couple so I can't disappoint him." Okay okay...maybe it is not THIS bad, but considering how everyone is more or less influenced into the relationships they were in instead of it happening naturally...well, I wouldn;t be surprised if Naruto pushed for SS to be together because he wanted to punish himself.

The only one Naruto noticed naturally was Sakura. He had to be cohersed into being with HInata.

It is also funny how Naruto could connect with the villains, connect with the Sasuke, and even understand how they felt, but Sakura he for some reason couldn't connect with her in this one moment. All the same, when I go back and look at that chapter... you notice that Naruto was surprised for most of it. Sakura said she loved him...he was surpised....he didn't just instantly say "You're lying" right as she confessed.

BUT...as soon as she pushed the Sasuke button...he went from confused to pissed and that is when she was lying. He believed her up to the point of "I don't care about Sasuke anymore." As soon as she said that, Naruto rejected her entirely. The pro-enders say he knew her confession was fake, but again reread that whole thing....he doesn't react negatively until after she mentions Sasuke, not before. Why is that? You think if he knew she was lying from the beginning he would have reacted then since he "knows her so much." If Sakura never mentioned Sasuke at all...would he believe her?

Yeah, if she never brought up Sasuke, it's obvious that he would have been "fooled". She just used to care so much about Sasuke, and Naruto also cares so much about Sasuke, to an inhuman degree. So that statement just sounds ridiculous. And maybe he doesn't even want to be with her if she has that view, who knows. I think what he wanted to hear was "I still want to save Sasuke, but you're the one I want to be with." Which Sakura was unlikely to say, given that the next thing she did was to try to kill Sasuke. She hasn't really worked through any of the feelings she has. She just knows that thinking about Sasuke hurts her but thinking about Naruto doesn't.

 

There's a strong possibility that Naruto didn't ever want to accept under these circumstances. He wanted to bring back Sasuke and have her pick him anyway because she loves him now. He doesn't want the feeling that he won just because Sasuke happened to be evil. It doesn't make him feel good about himself. So he doesn't want to comfort Sakura in this case and instead treats her like garbage... Rivalry? Because if he truly loved Sakura over all other people including Sasuke, he would never have done this.

 

"You didn't want to lose to him."

 

"By the way, you did lose to him, but don't worry about that."

Edited by DrK, 20 November 2017 - 04:06 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I don't think one has to act like their family just because they were born in it. Given the history of Uchiha, she's fine acting as she is in my opinion. 

 

 

The quote had nothing to do with flooziness, everything to do with shallowness, I.E., going for someone who is poplar, while initiallly going for someone who was popular that was supposed to turn into something genuine. 

 

The point that is always missed is that Sasuke has changed, now on to a mission that literally is to investigate a threat against the whole world. 

So what your saying is Sakura is shallow for loving Sasuke and she would also be shallow for leaving Sasuke. Because the wording Kishimoto uses is utterly different then what you're claiming. 

Kishimoto: “I was on the fence about going to Sakura and changing her heart to Naruto, but after coming this far and just having Sakura switch over would make her a terrible woman”

Does that sound the same as the what you're claiming? no it doesn't, because its not. If Sakura gets over Sasuke at the end, she's "a terrible woman." for picking a new man, ergo FLOOZY. 


 

[Tsuki Hoshino]

The quote wasn't how you remembered, because you were wrong about it. 

Sakura is shallow if she grows up and moves on. That's the statement you keep trying to defend. Thats the writer you keep insisting isn't bad.

You must be dizzy from the circles you're making in logic. 

[DrK]

Men like Sasuke are a dime a dozen for any woman who has a social life. Every one of them has had multiple Sasukes pass through and more than likely didn't end up with any of them. Why is Sakura so different? Because she had the opportunity to confess to him? Please. No chemistry between the two of them was ever established or indeed even exists. It's ridiculous nonsense.

[DrK]

Naruto was never cool on the level of someone like Sasuke. He was always a goofball with annoying idiosyncracies. You can tell this by the way Ino says she could just fall for him, but then why doesn't she go after him? Why does she go for boring ass Sai? Because he isn't her type. I can admit this as a fan of NaruIno.

 

He was, however, Sakura's type. They had wonderful chemistry and got along swimmingly. SS isn't a ship that sunk, it's a ship that can't even float.

Edited by DrK, 20 November 2017 - 05:56 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Men like Sasuke are a dime a dozen for any woman who has a social life. Every one of them has had multiple Sasukes pass through and more than likely didn't end up with any of them. Why is Sakura so different? Because she had the opportunity to confess to him? Please. No chemistry between the two of them was ever established or indeed even exists. It's ridiculous nonsense.

The difference is Sakura has no agency beyond what Kishimoto gives her and in his sick mind, allowing her to grow up and out of her love was "Shallow" and therefore she must remain tethered to the vestiges of her youth. 

 

 

 

The quote has nothing to do with saying that Sakura would be a terrible woman for moving on from Sasuke. That's not the context or the meaning of the statement, and, the quote you supplied is a bit off, but whatever, I'll work with it and elaborate my point. No, the point of Kishimoto's context is that it was in regards to Sakura switching from Sasuke to Naruto AFTER Naruto had become "cool" and hero. The issue is that by doing so she appears fickle and/or shallow. It would cast doubts on her prior feelings, and further cast doubts on her feelings for Naruto. There would constantly be that shadow that she just fell for Naruto just because now he's the popular guy, just like she had as a kid with Sasuke. 

 

THAT is the point of the quote, which is understood better when you snip its entire passage, not just the one line. 

And yet he says explicitly "If she moved on from Sasuke she would be a terrible woman." are we not taking the author at his word now? Do you want to ignore Kishimoto like you ignore Naruto's statements? 

It the quote is "Off" find the source. 

If Kishimoto made Sakura move on from Naruto with Sasuke and it was written so that there was "doubt." Wouldn't that be because he is doing it on purpose, or simply because as people have stated repeatedly: his writing sucks. He IS LAZY and sloppy. 

[winter-serenade]

Everytime I look over this sort of stuff and the scene Kishimoto implements, I get more and more confused. When Sakura puts on that fake smile during the war, that was a big scene I thought would be elaborated on more. Tsunade comments, saying "Well, if that's how it is..." or something of the sort, Shikamaru looks in concerned silence, Shizune is shown to do the same, and Sai knows, he knows Sakura's smile is fake because he does fake smiles all the time.

 

I was looking forward to the drama/conflict that would be caused with this scene in mind, but it's like everything stayed the same, making me all the more confused...

[DrK]

If Kishi had used the bench scene to make Sakura flip, it would have been a little too convenient, but there certainly wouldn't have been any doubt. Because her positive response to the attention Naruto paid to her was established LONG ago.

Edited by DrK, 20 November 2017 - 06:05 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Everytime I look over this sort of stuff and the scene Kishimoto implements, I get more and more confused. When Sakura puts on that fake smile during the war, that was a big scene I thought would be elaborated on more. Tsunade comments, saying "Well, if that's how it is..." or something of the sort, Shikamaru looks in concerned silence, Shizune is shown to do the same, and Sai knows, he knows Sakura's smile is fake because he does fake smiles all the time.

 

I was looking forward to the drama/conflict that would be caused with this scene in mind, but it's like everything stayed the same, making me all the more confused...

Its confusing because Kishimoto started with one intent, got tired but continued put-putting with it until almost the very bitter end and without doing the work to change lead up to the ending believably just tacked on some BS ending. If you just cut out the last ten chapters of Naruto and rewrote them you could make a 100% believable NS ending no problem. But even with those 10 chapters Kishi wrote, NH a SS still don't have the time needed to come across as "Developed."