54216 replies to this topic

[Tsuki Hoshino]

You really have to wonder why the hell someone would write that scene that way. WHY IS NARUTO UNQUESTIONABLY RIGHT? Why doesn't he ever read someone wrong? He's not A god, he can't know everyone's heart or mind.

[DrK]

He wanted to create tension about the pairing choice instead of making it obvious that he was going with NS. The hug after Pain and Hinata's smile. The problem is, this scene ended up DECIDING the pairing for him since people hated Sakura for it and he went with what he thought the fans would want.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I wasn't actually asking lmao. I know why, it was just a dumb decision.

The thing is the confession isn't the problem, it's how Naruto casts her as a liar and instead of following up on this convo and clarifying it for the audience, Kishi as usual does the "easy" i.e lazy thing and sweeps it under a rug so he doesnt have to deal with what he put on the table. He does this continually with a 1000 other things in the story because he's sloppy.

[DrK]

I wasn't actually asking lmao. I know why, it was just a dumb decision.

The thing is the confession isn't the problem, it's how Naruto casts her as a liar and instead of following up on this convo and clarifying it for the audience, Kishi as usual does the "easy" i.e lazy thing and sweeps it under a rug so he doesnt have to deal with what he put on the table. He does this continually with a 1000 other things in the story because he's sloppy.

Well, there was no way he could have revisited it without highlighting the things that everyone believed about Sakura as a result, which were ultimately validated with the ending. It's a great argument that he changed his plans.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Yes but he's the one who in interviews defended Sakura after this occurred by calling her an "honest girl" instead of saying it to people, if he meant it he should have clarified it in the story by SHOWING she was being honest with Naruto on some level.

If rather then looking at the backlash and going " Oh lol I guess I screwed up portraying my original intent...lemme
Just change what I've been building from the start since no one liked it anyways." To "let me go back to that conversation after ____ and have Sakura clarify her feelings and her reasoning." He COULD have salvaged that confession in any number of ways, but he let it languish WHILE still portraying NS as the end game for whatever reason.

It's less like he changed his plans and more like he just threw a square peg into a round hole because it was too much work to put things in the proper place.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Well, there was no way he could have revisited it without highlighting the things that everyone believed about Sakura as a result, which were ultimately validated with the ending. It's a great argument that he changed his plans.

 

And it also shows how Naruto didn't think of how he wanted to be happy either, which shows how he is in the ending even if others say otherwise. Considering that Naruto had taken off so fast even when he could feel Boruto coming with a bento from Hinata, and yet.... he just leaves XP He didn't care until Sarada showed up with it.

[DrK]

 

And it also shows how Naruto didn't think of how he wanted to be happy either, which shows how he is in the ending even if others say otherwise. Considering that Naruto had taken off so fast even when he could feel Boruto coming with a bento from Hinata, and yet.... he just leaves XP He didn't care until Sarada showed up with it.

Naruto was such an idiot. It's not so much that he didn't believe her, but that he wouldn't let himself believe her or that he deserved any of it. Like James said a while back.

 

Why did he have to be mean to Sakura? It's one thing to say, "I don't believe you." It's quite another to say, "You are lying, and if you continue to lie, I'll hate you for it."

 

He's essentially telling her, "If you keep trying to convince me of this, I will hate you." So she was forced to end the dialogue and walk away, because Naruto is her best friend and she doesn't want him to hate her. It's so heartless of him.

 

He got exactly what he thought he deserved.

Edited by DrK, 19 November 2017 - 07:46 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Naruto was such an idiot. It's not so much that he didn't believe her, but that he wouldn't let himself believe her or that he deserved any of it. Like James said a while back.

 

Why did he have to be mean to Sakura? It's one thing to say, "I don't believe you." It's quite another to say, "You are lying, and if you continue to lie, I'll hate you for it."

 

He's essentially telling her, "If you keep trying to convince me of this, I will hate you." So she was forced to end the dialogue and walk away, because Naruto is her best friend and she doesn't want him to hate her. It's so heartless of him.

 

He got exactly what he thought he deserved.

 

No kidding, which pisses me off most of all that he had to be like that. If I had written it, I'd have it Naruto and Sakura do talk about it again, and then Naruto realizes only HE is lying to himself about so much else. It would make for good development and really make him see that Sakura DID love him legitimately!

[Nate River]

Isn't this resolution similar to Bolt's reaction to the "Endure it"? Yet he still had major issues with his father after this?

 

I just don't see how the issues would have been ultimately corrected even if lipservice is paid to them. I understand WHY the lipservice was paid because without that you aren't resolving anything. But it's not a true resolution for me. She had other issues besides the maternity one that were brushed to the side. I get that the story continued with Ikemoto, and Sarada is fine. I just don't see how their family unit is going to to be much different now.

 

You're reading "Happy family", I read "Sarada got to meet her father and resolved the issue of her maternity"

 

The family photo and dinner isn't enough for me, even if the art were done differently. It doesn't help that he shows Sasuke leaving again. If he hadn't shown that and it's merely assumed that he would eventually leave again, it would be a good bit different. Plus we would avoid another instance of Sakura looking pitiful.

 

From Sarada's perspective? No, it's not that. You're framing it is she fighting through it despite her pain and unhappiness. That is not what the end of Gaiden presents. You seem to be arguing that she should have daddy issues and she should be unhappy. That is a different question. She is neither of those things at the end of Gaiden. 

 

You can argue all you want about the adequacy of the presentation. I've said multiple times, I find it lacking. However, that is not the same as an unclear intent. The intent is clear. You are muddling several different questions.

[DrK]

 

From Sarada's perspective? No, it's not that. You're framing it is she fighting through it despite her pain and unhappiness. That is not what the end of Gaiden presents. You seem to be arguing that she should have daddy issues and she should be unhappy. That is a different question. She is neither of those things at the end of Gaiden. 

 

You can argue all you want about the adequacy of the presentation. I've said multiple times, I find it lacking. However, that is not the same as an unclear intent. The intent is clear. You are muddling several different questions.

No, I said Sarada is fine, but the family situation is still not great. I'm not focusing on Sarada alone. And she certainly could have been happy without ever meeting him, for instance. My bad if that was unclear.

 

I'm just talking about the family. I don't see how either of them would be more okay with the absence of Sasuke because of the events of Gaiden. Sarada was upset at Sasuke during Gaiden even when he was there, and this issue was resolved. The issue of him not being there wasn't.

 

This started because of a statement about his intent. I can't say what it was with confidence, but I don't understand how you can either. Dysfunctional and unhappy families take pictures and have dinner, too. They're dysfunctional because of the absence of Sasuke... Were they happy at the end of Gaiden when Sasuke was there? Absolutely, they were depicted that way. Is the family situation happy now that he's gone? No, I don't see why they would be. For me, the issue of being happy despite the absence would need to be acknowledged by the characters. Something like they're still happy because thinking about him out there is enough, or something sappy like that. I suppose I can understand why this would seem unreasonable to you, but like I said before, the facial expressions and the fact that Sasuke was depicted leaving instead of ending it on the note of him being there... Also his departure making a mockery of Sakura.

 

Maybe let's just agree to disagree. What do you make of Kishimoto's comments that James mentioned? It was post-Gaiden that he said that stuff, right?

Edited by DrK, 19 November 2017 - 03:04 PM.

[winter-serenade]

I believe the sad irony of NS is that Naruto played a part in getting Sakura to fall in love with Sasuke. The bench scene on the day they became a team, Naruto disguised as Sasuke nearly kissing her, I think that made her feelings stronger.

She STILL thinks that was Sasuke himself, even to this day. When Sarada asks if she's ever kissed Sasuke, she's most likely thinking about that scene. It's really sad the more I think about it.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Naruto was such an idiot. It's not so much that he didn't believe her, but that he wouldn't let himself believe her or that he deserved any of it. Like James said a while back.

 

Why did he have to be mean to Sakura? It's one thing to say, "I don't believe you." It's quite another to say, "You are lying, and if you continue to lie, I'll hate you for it."

 

He's essentially telling her, "If you keep trying to convince me of this, I will hate you." So she was forced to end the dialogue and walk away, because Naruto is her best friend and she doesn't want him to hate her. It's so heartless of him.

 

He got exactly what he thought he deserved.

It's why he can come off as almost having a hero / messiah complex rather than truly wanting to "help", hence ditching his training early various times, and even making the 4th Shinobi "War" all about himself without even acknowledging Bee, the world, or anything. No, he actually says that he doesn't want people dying "for him".

[Yyubie]

I believe the sad irony of NS is that Naruto played a part in getting Sakura to fall in love with Sasuke. The bench scene on the day they became a team, Naruto disguised as Sasuke nearly kissing her, I think that made her feelings stronger.

She STILL thinks that was Sasuke himself, even to this day. When Sarada asks if she's ever kissed Sasuke, she's most likely thinking about that scene. It's really sad the more I think about it.

Imagine if Sakura find out about this , for 12 years chasing and fall in love with a fake/wrong guy , shes gonna give Naruto hell and then kiss him after that

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Everyone knew Sakura was lying how? Because they can also read minds?


"THE MANGA KEPT TELLING US SAKURA LOVED SASUKE." Lmao. Ok But it kept showing us Naruto loved her and Sakura had conflicting feelings for both men, and it NEVER showed or told us Naruto loved Hinata until that tacked on ending.

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 19 November 2017 - 05:51 PM.

[DrK]

I believe the sad irony of NS is that Naruto played a part in getting Sakura to fall in love with Sasuke. The bench scene on the day they became a team, Naruto disguised as Sasuke nearly kissing her, I think that made her feelings stronger.

She STILL thinks that was Sasuke himself, even to this day. When Sarada asks if she's ever kissed Sasuke, she's most likely thinking about that scene. It's really sad the more I think about it.

Yeah, the bench scene would have had major impact. But I honestly think Kishimoto forgot about it. The ending he came up with was completely gutless, but I don't think he was evil enough to actually make Sakura's forehead a SS thing at the end. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was just a coincidence.

The stuff I wrote in the thread on the general forum kinda erases the sentiment of "Naruto made Sakura fall in love with Sasuke" for me, because Sakura was just completely crazy by the end. If it had been Naruto's actions on that day that pushed her to that point of insanity, she would have certainly referenced it again. Because in that case, Naruto was the one who made her lose her mind. Like, if she were capable of acting like a normal person around Sasuke, I could see it. But she simply isn't rational anymore. If Naruto were to tell her about it right now, she'd be like "So? Big deal. Me and Sasuke-kun were always soulmates."

 

Did the manga really tell us Sakura loved Sasuke that much? Up until the Kage summit, we were told that what, once? The original time before the "Thank you"? It certainly wasn't being reinforced that many times. Maybe in the flashback with Sai it is referenced, but that was about Naruto's feelings towards her so...

Edited by DrK, 19 November 2017 - 05:50 PM.

[winter-serenade]

Yeah, the bench scene would have had major impact. But I honestly think Kishimoto forgot about it. The ending he came up with was completely gutless, but I don't think he was evil enough to actually make Sakura's forehead a SS thing at the end. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was just a coincidence.
The stuff I wrote in the thread on the general forum kinda erases the sentiment of "Naruto made Sakura fall in love with Sasuke" for me, because Sakura was just completely crazy by the end. If it had been Naruto's actions on that day that pushed her to that point of insanity, she would have certainly referenced it again. Because in that case, Naruto was the one who made her lose her mind. Like, if she were capable of acting like a normal person around Sasuke, I could see it. But she simply isn't rational anymore. If Naruto were to tell her about it right now, she'd be like "So? Big deal. Me and Sasuke-kun were always soulmates."
 
Did the manga really tell us Sakura loved Sasuke that much? Up until the Kage summit, we were told that what, once? The original time before the "Thank you"? It certainly wasn't being reinforced that many times. Maybe in the flashback with Sai it is referenced, but that was about Naruto's feelings towards her so...

If I remember correctly, I saw a tumblr post showing how Sakura kind of forces herself onto Sasuke in the book Sakura Hiden. She's like "No matter how many times he rejects me, I'll keep on confessing until he accepts my feelings!" Or something of the like.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

If I remember correctly, I saw a tumblr post showing how Sakura kind of forces herself onto Sasuke in the book Sakura Hiden. She's like "No matter how many times he rejects me, I'll keep on confessing until he accepts my feelings!" Or something of the like.

 

Oh, dear God... and she also asked why Sasuke couldn't be like Naruto, and yet she claims Naruto only loved her because of his rivalry with Sasuke, which we know is a hot load of crap. X_X Jesus, this ending has REALLY ruined the series!!

[DrK]

If I remember correctly, I saw a tumblr post showing how Sakura kind of forces herself onto Sasuke in the book Sakura Hiden. She's like "No matter how many times he rejects me, I'll keep on confessing until he accepts my feelings!" Or something of the like.

It's actually worse. It's something like "Next time Sasuke-kun comes back to the village, I'm coming with him even if he doesn't want to take me along" 

 

She's a psycho. Tell me that learning about the bench scene would have any impact on this lunatic.

Edited by DrK, 19 November 2017 - 06:37 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

It's actually worse. It's something like "Next time Sasuke-kun comes back to the village, I'm coming with him even if he doesn't want to take me along" 

 

She's a psycho. Tell me that learning about the bench scene would have any impact on this lunatic.
 

All kittening three of them a psychos. Sasuke is Crazy, Naruto is Crazy and so is Sakura. Not one of them should have bred, especially not two of them with one another. 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

All kittening three of them a psychos. Sasuke is Crazy, Naruto is Crazy and so is Sakura. Not one of them should have bred, especially not two of them with one another. 

 

Everyone in the ending is basically bat-**** crazy now!! Like what caused it?! Did the whole Naruto universe just go insane because of the ending that was decided?? Or did they just become stupid??????