54216 replies to this topic

[VanitasDS76491]

Yep, I noticed that too, but since the end of pein invassion Hinata became a complete selfish void of a person, didn't care about Neji's death (If she actually did she should had been cryiing broken instead of getting sweet hand to hand action with her crush), then we have the movie that took her selfishiness on a whole new level where she basically makes the main character discard his dead mother's memento(regardless if Naruto did it of his own will, the fact that she wanted to him to wear HER stupid scarf created the problem). 
Seriously, If I were Kushina and I noticed what he had done, I wouldn't even bother to beat his ass senseless, I would just say to him "If this is what you value, I don't want nothing to do with you, leave now, I don't ever want to see you or call you son again" . Ultimate Scumbag, indeed, discarding his mother's memento, GIVE ME A F@$!#$# BREAK.
 

 
Yeah, yeah you say this all the time.

Funny I use that dr.Cox bit for the problems with the last with sakura's love rival thing.

[Phantom_999]

 

I hear that. She can't even really understand Naruto if she isn't able to really try to get him to spend more time with the family. I get Naruto is Hokage, but as others have said, Hashirama, Tobirama, Hiruzen, Minato, and Tsunade had time to do other stuff besides just focusing on paperwork, though with Kakashi, since he's a loner, it's harder to tell how it was for him. 

 

And yeah, Sakura never turned a blind eye to stuff, like when she scolded Naruto after he took Kakuzu down with the Rasenshuriken and how he was being reckless, as well as her just facepalming but smiling when Naruto stopped Kakashi from telling him not to use the Rasenshuriken again, given he seemed to know. Plus Sakura also worried most whenever Naruto lost himself into Kurama's chakra, or when he used it too much during the war and how she didn't want him to suffer.

 

More signs of how kittened up the ending is overall.

 

Didn't Hashirama explicitly state that he gave Tsunade her gambling problem? If he was SOOOOO busy being Hokage, like Naruto, how did he have time to teach her gambling in the first place?

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

I wonder what steps Hinata has taken to address her husband's self-destructive drinking problem? Kind of irresponsible on her part to just let him slobber down so much booze at every waking hour despite having a family and an entire village to provide for. Just one of the many reasons NS is better. Sakura would never turn a blind eye to such a serious problem. It's as if Hinata does not truly care at all for her husband's well being.

 

 

 

I also want to point out something else that occurred to me.  If Hinata valued Naruto's happiness, why was she so willing to attempt to sabotage his relationship? Now, as much as I detest speaking about the Last,  I don't think this have been addressed in a discussion.  Hinata had assumed that Naruto's scarf was given to him by a girl that he may have fallen in love with.  So, if Hinata realized that Naruto may be dating someone else, why was she attempting to ruin that by making her own scarf to offer to him and win his affection when he was presumably spoken for?  

Because Hinatatas doesn't care about Boruto's dad for who he really is, but her own mental ideal of him, while basically denying anything ever being wrong while only physically seeing him as a trophy to be won.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

I also want to point out something else that occurred to me.  If Hinata valued Naruto's happiness, why was she so willing to attempt to sabotage his relationship? Now, as much as I detest speaking about the Last,  I don't think this have been addressed in a discussion.  Hinata had assumed that Naruto's scarf was given to him by a girl that he may have fallen in love with.  So, if Hinata realized that Naruto may be dating someone else, why was she attempting to ruin that by making her own scarf to offer to him and win his affection when he was presumably spoken for?  

 

Never got that either, especially when Hinata said she was going to stop chasing Naruto and try to walk beside him, but I guess this just makes her a lying piece of garbage like everyone else has become to justify Hinata "winning" Naruto.

 

 

Because Hinatatas doesn't care about Boruto's dad for who he really is, but her own mental ideal of him, while basically denying anything ever being wrong while only physically seeing him as a trophy to be won.

 

Pretty much does feel that way, like how I've said when it came to Hinata wanting Naruto to give up the fight with Neji when he took the 8 Trigrams 64 Palms, even when she was still suffering from her wounds, and assuming Naruto fought for her when he was doing it because of Neji mocking people who had to work hard to achieve their goals, like what Naruto's been doing from day 1.

[ThroughWithLove]

RBG#7 is a strong woman who takes what she wants. The kind of girl Naruto's mother told him to be with and the exact opposite of Hinata. She's clearly hanging off of Naruto right in front of Sakura, one of the strongest kunoichi who is known to have a temper. Sure, she's now a brainless idiot who just obsesses over an emo prince who will never be around ever again. But normal people/shinobi don't know that. They would be scared. But not RBG#7. She's like, "I belong here." Hinata would never have that much guts. She was scared off by a gift that she merely THOUGHT was from another girl. She merely suspected that Naruto might be taken so she stays away. Pathetic. Hinata only won because the story was written that way.
 
In real life, Naruto would never take pity on Hinata, and he'd live a happy life with RBG. They'd have a daughter named RBG#8, and she would look just like RBG and not kitten up Naruto's Hokage inauguration. Then the pain of losing Sakura would no longer weigh on Naruto's heart. He would die a happy man, surrounded by family. And his parents would be so happy for him. 
 
Instead, he probably has night terrors over what will happen when he finds himself facing Kushina in the afterlife.

Reading these comments, I'm starting to see the light and beauty of NaruRBG#7. In fact, I think they are my new OTP! Although not as much development as NS, still more onscreen development than NH!

[Nate River]

If the pro enders really believe Kishimoto's intent with the Gaiden was to show how happy and healthy their relationship was, they're more crazy than Sakura is right now.

They aren't crazy because that was his intent. I see no other reason interpretation of that ending except to portray them as a happy family. I am an anti-ender, but pretending he wasn't portraying a happy family is counter productive and credibility killing. Gaiden has all sorts of problems and areas in which it can be criticized, so its frustrating to watch people chase this bad argument at the expense of better ones.
 
Sakura is the mother. They are being portrayed as a happy family.  
 

Yes, they took a picture together. One where they look completely miserable. And had a miserable family dinner. Woohoo. Can you feel the love tonight?
 
No. No, you can't.
 
There is no happy Team 7 if Sasuke marries Sakura. Naruto will be miserable for obvious reasons, Sakura will be miserable because Sasuke doesn't care, and Sasuke will be miserable because you have to make him out of character to even have him make that decision. Can anyone here even imagine Sasuke doing with Sakura what married couples do? A proposal from Sasuke to Sakura? "I want you to help me revive the Uchiha clan." *Proceeds to only have a single daughter and no son, so the Uchiha clan will surely die out within 2 generations* "Mission complete."
 
It's interesting how it's like we have this unspoken agreement that "miserable" is the word to use when talking about the ultimate fate of the principal canon characters.

Who has this unspoken agreement? I don't think they look miserable and if they do that's an "art" failure, not an attempt to portray them as unhappy. The context of that ending, everything the characters say is sets up a happy ending, but then he's sending secret message via the art that everything that was just said was utter rubbish? That Gaiden was written so that the characters were worse off from when the started? It's unpersuasive to say the least. 

[AHK]

They aren't crazy because that was his intent. I see no other reason interpretation of that ending except to portray them as a happy family. I am an anti-ender, but pretending he wasn't portraying a happy family is counter productive and credibility killing. Gaiden has all sorts of problems and areas in which it can be criticized, so its frustrating to watch people chase this bad argument at the expense of better ones.
 
Sakura is the mother. They are being portrayed as a happy family.  
 

Who has this unspoken agreement? I don't think they look miserable and if they do that's an "art" failure, not an attempt to portray them as unhappy. The context of that ending, everything the characters say is sets up a happy ending, but then he's sending secret message via the art that everything that was just said was utter rubbish? That Gaiden was written so that the characters were worse off from when the started? It's unpersuasive to say the least.

And what part of not seeing your father ever is portraying a happy ending? The very existence of Salad’s storyline is proof of the unhappiness. The fact that she hasn’t seen her father in over a decade. The fact that Sakura is super stressed because she’s a single parent and buried in debt. The fact that Naruto is resented by his son, and the fact that Naruto keeps a bottle of liquor on his desk. The fact that Sakura has to stick her face over another woman’s just so she could create the illusion of a family picture. The fact that Sakura is so insecure about her relationship with Sasuke that she would try to intimidate her daughter into silence when questioned about it.

I don’t know what Kishi was trying to portray, but it certainly wasn’t happy.

[Nate River]

 

For the record, this is also not true. Crossed out accordingly for any guest readers. 

 

Please stop crossing out people's posts, its obnoxious and doing it for unknown guest readers is patronizing. If you want to argue their wrong go ahead you can simply[/quote]

 

 

 

[And what part of not seeing your father ever is portraying a happy ending? The very existence of Salad’s storyline is proof of the unhappiness. The fact that she hasn’t seen her father in over a decade. The fact that Sakura is super stressed because she’s a single parent and buried in debt. The fact that Naruto is resented by his son, and the fact that Naruto keeps a bottle of liquor on his desk. The fact that Sakura has to stick her face over another woman’s just so she could create the illusion of a family picture. The fact that Sakura is so insecure about her relationship with Sasuke that she would try to intimidate her daughter into silence when questioned about it.

 

 

Yes, Gaiden introduced initial tensions and then resolved them. I wasn't talking about anything else, but Gaiden.  DrK's assertion was that pro-enders were crazy for believing Kishimoto's intent in Gaiden was to portray a happy family. DrK then mocked the miserable dinner, so clearly he wasn't simply isolating his analysis to the first two or three chapters of Gaiden. He was clearly including its ending as well. 

 

Gaiden introduced the problems and then resolved them with the ending of it meant to show them as a happy family. So, yes, that was the goal. I've said from its inception that Gaiden blows and my opinion hasn't changed, but I"m not going to ignore the obvious and pretend that Gaiden's ending intended to do something other than resolve the issues introduced at the beginning and then show Sasuke, Sakura, and Sarada as a happy family at the end. I wouldn't dispute it if the argument were that it did a bad job of it, but I am not going to deny what the clear goal of that story was.

[DrK]

 

Yes, Gaiden introduced initial tensions and then resolved them. I wasn't talking about anything else, but Gaiden.  DrK's assertion was that pro-enders were crazy for believing Kishimoto's intent in Gaiden was to portray a happy family. DrK then mocked the miserable dinner, so clearly he wasn't simply isolating his analysis to the first two or three chapters of Gaiden. He was clearly including its ending as well. 

 

Gaiden introduced the problems and then resolved them with the ending of it meant to show them as a happy family. So, yes, that was the goal. I've said from its inception that Gaiden blows and my opinion hasn't changed, but I"m not going to ignore the obvious and pretend that Gaiden's ending intended to do something other than resolve the issues introduced at the beginning and then show Sasuke, Sakura, and Sarada as a happy family at the end. I wouldn't dispute it if the argument were that it did a bad job of it, but I am not going to deny what the clear goal of that story was.

Ok, disclaimer. I find it almost impossible to not be histrionic when talking about this pairing. It is so baffling and infuriating (Sakura's obsession and insanity, Sasuke's motivations being completely unexplained and his total lack of interest.) But I actually stand by what I said.

 

The thing is the context. What does a family dinner show? It's something that a normal, well adjusted family does. But in the context that Gaiden is presented as, all the dinner does for me is highlight how that's not what they are. Especially with the facial expressions. To brush this off as an art "failure" is not really fair in my view. He's illustrated several other scenes of characters eating together and none look as awkward as this one.

 

AHK's reply brings up the issue of whether or not they are miserable at the start of Gaiden. You agree that they are. So why would they not be miserable at the end? Because Sarada was portrayed as happy in some panels? I find it more likely that she's just caught the Haruno family curse of getting high off of acknowledgement from Sasuke. And yes, Sakura is the mother. There are reasons to doubt it but I honestly don't see him ever making the fact that she isn't a plot point, so it's mostly a waste of time to think about. I digress.

 

So  they were miserable at the start. Who was miserable and why? Sarada was miserable because of her mother acting crazy and because of her doubts about her father. She also doubted that her mother was really her mother and this was the main message of the Gaiden if anything. Sakura is the mother. Sakura was miserable because I guess her life is unsatisfying, Sarada is complaining, and she's stressed out? It's really hard to say because he made Sakura so crazy.

 

Anyway, the idea is that I don't see how this would be corrected because Sasuke is leaving again. They would realistically descend into misery once again. That is what I take away from it and Kishimoto's failure to actually show them as happy in the art only reinforces this interpretation. At best the message is confused. I'm not seeing a clear "We are happy about the situation with Sasuke now" in the last chapter, mostly because there is no reason why they would now be happy with it.  I do understand how one could come to that conclusion but it doesn't work for me. Why would the fact that Sarada stopped complaining make Sakura happy all of a sudden? She is miserable without Sasuke. This has been established time and again. Sarada is happy with Sasuke now but he's ultimately not a factor in her life and he never will be. In my view the purpose was to be a story about Sarada. She meets her father and learns (depressing) things about her mother. The end. Their ultimate happiness or unhappiness was unresolved. I read miserable because Sasuke left and Sakura is crazy. Sarada is the only normal human being and fortunately she has things to do outside her home, so she'll be ok.

 

I did say something about Kishimoto's intent. I have no clue what the hell he is doing anymore, so that was overenthusiastic. It's entirely possible that he meant to say they are happy but just didn't reinforce this or illustrate it well at all.

Edited by DrK, 17 November 2017 - 06:08 AM.

[ultranx]

And I completely agree with you in that respect. DC has more leeway and more understanding on why things occur which means there is more pressure for manga artist and writers to stick to the consistency and a bigger risk when they don't. That being said, I find that manga is slowly becoming like this over the years especially with properties as popular as DBZ and such. It has been specifically shown that Toriyama doesn't write Dragonball as extensive as people think and only gives basic outlines and goals. How to reach those goals is put upon two other writers and they explain this at convention once I believe. Bluestar showed it to me so maybe he still has it.

However, what does this mean for the Boruto manga that is not being written by Kishimoto or drawn? it specifically says: "Original series creator Masashi Kishimoto is supervising the series illustrated by his former chief assistant and written by his co-writer of the Boruto: Naruto the Movie screenplay"

What does that mean "supervising?" How much does Kishimoto get involved? We don't know and they don't say. Supervising can be from helping with direction of the story, to character designs, to just walking in and saying "Okay." He could just let them do whatever they want with his property and not care at all at this point. Toriyama said the same thing with DBGT. He didn't watch them around the clock make the series and had nothing to do with it outside of "Drawing a couple of designs"

"Unlike the previous anime series in the Dragon Ball franchise, Dragon Ball GT does not adapt the manga series written by Akira Toriyama, but tells an original story conceived by the Toei Animation staff using the same characters and universe from the original Dragon Ball manga and it continues the story where Dragon Ball Z had left off. Toriyama did, however, come up with the Dragon Ball GT name, which stands for "Grand Touring" in reference to the series having the characters travel through the universe, and designed the appearances of the main cast"

Which is what I think Boruto has become. All Kishimoto did was provide some sketches and let everyone else do whatever they wanted. He had nothing to do with the production of it or how the story is written.

Heck, looking at Dragonball as example, how would you feel is Kishimoto came back to Naruto and just rewrote everything saying "Well, Boruto is just a what-if side-story. This is what really happens" and rewrites the entire story where NS and SK is canon and calls it basically "Naruto Shippuden Super" where the whoel plot of Boruto is not even mentioned and it is all different. Where Bolt is different and Salad are still in, but they are different characters.

Would you believe me if this is what happens in the future?

It's kind of funny how some of these pro-enders will say that all of this is canon because Kishimoto approved of it, but say that Dragonball GT is NOT canon even when Toriyama approved of that too. Technically, since timelines have been proven in Dragonball now thanks to the Trunks arc, Dragonball GT could be just one of the timelines that happens. Like DC with the 52 universes after the Flashpoint paradoxes, Trunks just dissected the timelines. (There is like three to four different Trunks, three difference Cells, two different androids, and like 4 different Gokus)

I see it as completely possible for Naruto to do the same especially if they wanted to use Time-Space jutsu into the equation.

In fact, maybe I even want that to occur. This was the NH and SS get what they want and NS and SK get what they want. Everyone wins....except there will still be arguments over who is the better timeline, but Kishimoo can just leave it to "You guys can figure that one out. I am retiring."

 

gt isn't canon, if it was supreme kai and kibito would be fused forever, they were unfused in super. there are other inconsistencies too. he considers it more of a what if, he respects it unlike his hate for dragon ball evolution. and I disagree with you on the death battle being accurate with goku vs superman, they were biased towards it and are superman fans, not dbz fans, but I don't care who wins that fight, I just find it pointless and point out the inconsistencies. I also disagree with you on your nitpicks on super right now. not gonna get into any of that though  because don't want to have another argument with you again. 

Edited by ultranx, 17 November 2017 - 05:45 AM.

[LuckyChi7]

Lol  Boruto's future wifu is no longer an anime only character if you know what I mean  

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's the only page I've seen, but according to my best friend & cousin BoruSumi shippers are hyped!

 

Well good for.... Oh look Black Clover chapter is out.. goes to read instantly. 

Edited by LuckyChi7, 17 November 2017 - 01:49 PM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

Lol  Boruto's future wifu is no longer an anime only character if you know what I mean  

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's the only page I've seen, but according to my best friend & cousin BoruSumi shippers are hyped!

 

Well good for.... Oh look Black Clover chapter is out.. goes to read instantly. 

 

this would have been a perfect time for a 1970's Sniper to appear from on the Hokage Tower and take her out instantly.

[LuckyChi7]

incase anyone couldn't  see the picture, I changed it so that everyone can see cause it's that coding signture in it's place instead of showing the picture.

 

 

 

well I just got some comments from the episode 32 review I did, and looks some of my subs want me to do  a live reaction to the latest chapter.... hmmm what to do what to do? 

[TheFirstEvil100]

 

this would have been a perfect time for a 1970's Sniper to appear from on the Hokage Tower and take her out instantly.

What about everyone else and morons as well.

 

I mean the Uchiha's were all such good people and all that.

 

But I had a bad feeling that this was going to happen, now all SP need to do is bring her back and all that, I just want this series to die already.

[Kagomaru]

What about everyone else and morons as well.

 

I mean the Uchiha's were all such good people and all that.

 

But I had a bad feeling that this was going to happen, now all SP need to do is bring her back and all that, I just want this series to die already.

It's dying a slow and agonizing death as it is with its depleting sales and lack of popularity outside the Youtube community.  Once the Black Clover anime takes off, it's history.

[Illnevergiveup3]

What about everyone else and morons as well.

 

I mean the Uchiha's were all such good people and all that.

 

But I had a bad feeling that this was going to happen, now all SP need to do is bring her back and all that, I just want this series to die already.

 

I have a fate much worse in mind for each and every last one of them. I'll make a volume for each.  

[LuckyChi7]

Anyone else but me find funny based off the spoiler pics that Sumire still maintains her current clothes from the anime, but Sarada is the only one who got the change in terms of clothing..  Again that furthers the point that Ikemoto can draw her old clothes, but chooses not to for obvious reasons. 

[TheFirstEvil100]

 

I have a fate much worse in mind for each and every last one of them. I'll make a volume for each.  

Oh true I still have that idea that the Sakura we are seeing is not the real Sakura and Sasuke left her in Kaguya's world, let's just say she would kill them all, but that cause of the 300 years of hell she has had.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Anyone else but me find funny based off the spoiler pics that Sumire still maintains her current clothes from the anime, but Sarada is the only one who got the change in terms of clothing..  Again that furthers the point that Ikemoto can draw her old clothes, but chooses not to for obvious reasons. 

She loses her sleeves for leg fetish sake. Why change now.

[LuckyChi7]

She loses her sleeves for leg fetish sake. Why change now.

 

 

Very true indeed.