54216 replies to this topic

[Yyubie]

 

Unfortunately, the stupidity and hypocrisy continue to shine forth, which is what irks me the most of all, James. @_@ And Kishimoto is just REALLLLLLLY not helping his case.

 

 

 

Thank you, DrK. *claps*  And let's face it, we all know Sasuke's heart truly belongs to Karin, since the DNA test Sarada took shows Karin is her biological mother, even if it is hinted she asked Sakura to raise her so that Orochimaru couldn't get Sarada due to her having the Uchiha Sharingan and Uzumaki chakra, even if that's gonna be ignored... XP

In my opinion , Karin is the real mother , but she has to fake it. Because as mother she wants Salad to be raise in healthy environment , normal life , school , society , friends , and there's no way she gonna get any of that if she raise her in Orochimaru cave. She is also a criminal , Sakura is one of the hero that save the world and shes a Sannin , of course Karin wants Salad to think that her parents is a hero and legendary Sannin she can proud of , not some lowly criminal.

Edited by Yyubie, 12 November 2017 - 05:11 AM.

[winter-serenade]

In my opinion , Karin is the real mother , but she has to fake it. Because as mother she wants Salad to be raise in healthy environment , normal life , school , society , friends , and there's no way she gonna get any of that if she raise her in Orochimaru cave.

Why is Karin, no, why is Taka STILL working with Orochimaru? He did despicable things to them ALL. I like Taka as a team and their overall character so this angers me... Is Kishimoto going to address this? Because its kitten.

Edited by winter-serenade, 12 November 2017 - 03:10 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Why is Karin, no, why is Taka STILL working with Orochimaru? He did despicable things to them ALL. I like Taka as a team and their overall character so this angers me... Is Kishimoto going to address this? Because its kitten.

 

I wish it was addressed too, since it is SUCH BS to see them separated from Sasuke when they are stronger with him.

[DrK]

He obviously doesn't care about Juugo, Suigetsu and especially Karin anymore. He tried to paint Karin's love for Sasuke as something selfless, like she would happily let him go and be content to know that he's happy. This is garbage. This girl loved Sasuke so much. Way more than Sakura who really had a great time in Konoha without him around and got so close to Naruto. Karin would never have done that. She always acted like she was merely tolerating the other members of Taka just so that she could be in Sasuke's presence. Now we're meant to believe that she just hangs out with them all the time without Sasuke around, because they're her friends? Please. She would be in Konoha in a kittening flash and stop him from getting married AT ALL COSTS. She would NEVER become friends with Sakura. She would probably have been screaming at Sakura, "What the hell are you doing?! What about my cousin? Are you really this much of a kitten? Stay away from my Sasuke!"

[ThroughWithLove]

Why is Karin, no, why is Taka STILL working with Orochimaru? He did despicable things to them ALL. I like Taka as a team and their overall character so this angers me... Is Kishimoto going to address this? Because its kitten.

Same reason Konahamuru has been shown to have zero issue/hesitation with the man who killed his grandfather, much less any issue/hesitation with training said man's son: Bad writing.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Same reason Konahamuru has been shown to have zero issue/hesitation with the man who killed his grandfather, much less any issue/hesitation with training said man's son: Bad writing.

 

And that it fits into what SP wanted more than anything else. XP How sad...

[LuckyChi7]

So what are the chances do you guys think Kishi is going to do when it comes to his next manga series in terms of the romance subplot if there even is one?  Do you guys think he's gonna go straight to the point? or do some kinda love triangle just like he did in naruto?  

 

It's a question my cousin asked me, and i'm not entirely sure.   I mean I already addressed this in the advice thread, but I'd rather he just go straight to the point instead of beating around the bush. 

Edited by LuckyChi7, 12 November 2017 - 05:47 PM.

[Namaenash]

So what are the chances do you guys think Kishi is going to do when it comes to his next manga series in terms of the romance subplot if there even is one?  Do you guys think he's gonna go straight to the point? or do some kinda love triangle just like he did in naruto?  

 

It's a question my cousin asked me, and i'm not entirely sure.   I mean I already addressed this in the advice thread, but I'd rather he just go straight to the point instead of beating around the bush. 

 

If he ever get the chance, he'll definitely do love triangle and keep it as blurry as possible. That's how to get attention from readers and keep them coming back to buy the manga.

 

The ball is on the court of the readers actually. Will we, as readers, fall into the same trap/treatment that he has done with Naruto series (in terms of romance subplot)?

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

If he ever get the chance, he'll definitely do love triangle and keep it as blurry as possible. That's how to get attention from readers and keep them coming back to buy the manga.

 

The ball is on the court of the readers actually. Will we, as readers, fall into the same trap/treatment that he has done with Naruto series (in terms of romance subplot)?

 

I still wouldn't trust him since he betrayed the readers in Naruto with the narrative and how he caved into a silent minority in Japan, but a LOUD majority elsewhere XP

[DrK]

I can't imagine what it's like to sell your soul like that. He probably has nightmares about Hinata taking his soul as he sleeps, white eyes glowing in the dark. Why wouldn't she? He already gave her everything else.

Edited by DrK, 12 November 2017 - 09:07 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

I can't imagine what it's like to sell your soul like that. He probably has nightmares about Hinata taking his soul as he sleeps, white eyes glowing in the dark. Why wouldn't she? He already gave her everything else.

You know what the real sad part is....he could change it. He could change the entire thing and say "This is the real ending," but he won't.

I know it is asking a lot, but I do hope one day Kishimoto actually comes out with the truth saying "NS was the intention, but they forced me to change it."

I have seen more unlikely things occur. It could be 10-20 years down the line, but it could happen.

[LuckyChi7]

Yo I got a serious kick out of this,  I might've shared it already, but if not then here ya go: 

 

 

 

 

 

There is only little part where I raised an eyebrow, but you'll know what it is when you see it. 

 

Man I can't wait to that co... woah too soon to reveal that information

Edited by LuckyChi7, 13 November 2017 - 04:07 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

You know what the real sad part is....he could change it. He could change the entire thing and say "This is the real ending," but he won't.
I know it is asking a lot, but I do hope one day Kishimoto actually comes out with the truth saying "NS was the intention, but they forced me to change it."
I have seen more unlikely things occur. It could be 10-20 years down the line, but it could happen.

Didn't marvel do something like that with the clone saga and release something called the real clone saga years after the mess the 90's one was?

[Gravenimage]

Yo I got a serious kick out of this,  I might've shared it already, but if not then here ya go: 

 

 

 

 

 

There is only little part where I raised an eyebrow, but you'll know what it is when you see it. 

 

Man I can't wait to that co... woah too soon to reveal that information

 

Awesome rant video I laughed a lot

 

Thanks for sharing luckychi

Edited by Gravenimage, 13 November 2017 - 11:56 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

Didn't marvel do something like that with the clone saga and release something called the real clone saga years after the mess the 90's one was?

Marvel and DC does this all the time...especially when the fans start crying they don't like something.

Look at DC Rebirth which came about because people hated how Superman was and how he was with Wonder Woman the whole time. I get they hated Superman's character, but...

Okay this might sound hypocritical at first, but I will explain. One reason the fans hated the New52 Superman was because he was with Wonder Woman as a couple. They thought it was cliche and downright stupid. I thought it was okay...I just didn't like how Superman turned into this massive jerk and became super edgy. He made Batman look like My Little Pony.

Now, unlike NH and SS, Superman and Wonder Woman had development throughout the story. In fact, they made it look like Superman never even met Lois and Steve Trevor was too controlling for Wonder Woman's taste. I get it, try something new, but the fact that they wanted to change that aspect because "Superman had to be with Lois" and not "This is horrible writing" is disturbing.

Stories are, to me, a situation by situation evaluation. I understand that this may come off as hypocritical in how I want to change NH and SS, but keep Superman and WW together. However, DC is always changing while Naruto is one-off so there is no multiple universe Naruto...or there is, but they don't explore it much.

I just find that the way Naruto as a story went and how the fans react makes me think that they should have made NS to begin with and they should change it to them as such. Instead, they keep going with it despite the massive problems...not just with the pairings, but with how the characters are portrayed.

So in way, I want it changed because I don't like how the story is written and thinks that changing the pairings would help change all of it to start with. Meanwhile in DC I think not changing the pairings would be better and instead just changing the characters to be better personality wise instead of just saying "Kill New52 Superman off and then bring in Classic Superman" which they did in DC Rebirth. I am not sure why they turned Superman into this extremely edgy character in the mist of the New52 run, but it was a bad idea. Superman cannot be Batman. Let Superman be Superman.

Confusing? Sorry, I am trying to explain my reasoning. All stories are different in how they flow. Like I said, I base it off how the story is written in itself.

 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 November 2017 - 06:11 PM.

[winter-serenade]

and if Kishimoto weaved NS instead, there would be the same complaining from some folks for the same illogical or selfish reasons, with post-ad-hoc realization added.

Naruto could have ended pairing less and worked just as well, almost anyway. 

Yeah, it couldve worked out just as well. Except the Naruto ending, pairings or no pairings, was still S-H-I-T. 

 

Orochimaru, as terrible as he is, is still running wild and free and even congratulated Naruto on his wedding. This despicable man killed two Kages, tortured and experimented on innocent children and adults alike, and disgraced the Shidaime and Nidaime Hokages by having them turn against their own village (Hiruzen had to fight Edo Tensei Hashirama and Tobirama during the invasion).

 

Taka, victims of his experiments are still working for him for some reason???? And they're OK with it, even though they don't like Orochimaru in the slightest???? Suigetsu is terrified of him????

 

Didn't Naruto promise Neji that he'd change the Hyuuga system when he became Hokage? Oh, the Hyuuga, you know, a clan basically based off of slavery. Or is that promise null and void because Neji died??

 

The truth behind the Uchiha massacre is never revealed. The village still thinks Itachi went crazy or something and killed everyone, when in fact corrupt Danzo is heavily to blame. Even Sakura, Sasuke's wife (allegedly) doesn't know the truth about Sasuke's most important and tragic event in his life.

 

Are these illogical and selfish reasons? No. These are some reasons of a fan of Naruto as to why it's ending was complete kitten. NaruSaku aside, at least. Phew. Done my rant.

Edited by winter-serenade, 13 November 2017 - 06:21 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

Yeah, it couldve worked out just as well. Except the Naruto ending, pairings or no pairings, was still S-H-I-T. 

 

Orochimaru, as terrible as he is, is still running wild and free and even congratulated Naruto on his wedding. This despicable man killed two Kages, tortured and experimented on innocent children and adults alike, and disgraced the Shidaime and Nidaime Hokages by having them turn against their own village (Hiruzen had to fight Edo Tensei Hashirama and Tobirama during the invasion).

 

Taka, victims of his experiments are still working for him for some reason???? And they're OK with it, even though they don't like Orochimaru in the slightest???? Suigetsu is terrified of him????

 

Didn't Naruto promise Neji that he'd change the Hyuuga system when he became Hokage? Oh, the Hyuuga, you know, a clan basically based off of slavery. Or is that promise null and void because Neji died??

 

The truth behind the Uchiha massacre is never revealed. The village still thinks Itachi went crazy or something and killed everyone, when in fact corrupt Danzo is heavily to blame. Even Sakura, Sasuke's wife (allegedly) doesn't know the truth about Sasuke's most important and tragic event in his life.

 

Are these illogical and selfish reasons? No. These are some reasons of a fan of Naruto as to why it's ending was complete kitten. NaruSaku aside, at least. Phew. Done my rant.

Again, nailed it.

As explained many, many, many, times. The pairings are just the tip of the iceberg of this problematic ending.

You have many questions like
Where was Toneri's clan when kaguya came back? Weren't they put on the moon to guard Kaguya from returning? They suck at their job.
Why is every member of the Otsutsuki clan evil save for Hagoromo, Ashura, and Hamura? Everyone else wanted to take over the world or destroy it.

Why is the Otsutsuki clan all of a sudden coming out of the wood work and where were they when Kaguya came back? You think if a whole army of the clan came, the world wouldn't stand a chance.
How did the ninjas get on the moon in the first place? Don't they need oxygen?
What happened to the tailed beasts after the war? (Kishimoto actually said he had no idea and he is the writer for god's sakes)
How was peace actually achieved?

What is going on with the Hidden Mist nation?

And the list keeps going and going and going.

It's not just the pairings, but alot of details that needed answers and we never got....they just anti-climatically solved themselves somehow.

 

What do we get instead?
"Is salad really the daughter of Sakura?"
"Why is Bolt always angry at his father?"
"How did Naruto's kids unlock the Byakugan when they didn't have it before?" (Because Kishimoto forgot and admitted this)
"How did Bolt and Himawari get whiskers when the only way you can get whiskers is the MOTHER had to be the jinchuriki?" (This was a detail that mentioned during the whole Kushina thing.)

And these lame ass explanations. The story is a mess....and the reason why it is a mess is because they focused more on the pairings, than they did on the story.

Naruto the Last is ONLY a story about Hinata and her love for Naruto. It is not about Team 7. It is not about how Naruto became a hokage and learned how to be one. It is not about facing an actual threat with their own agenda on how the world should be or their turmoil.

I am not kidding we thought the villains were pathetic before because their motives were so shallow, but now...Toneri just dug a hole and lowered the bar even more. "If I can't have HInata, I will blow up the world." Really? At least Obito wanted to enslave it and live in a world where noone ever faced the pain of lose again, but damn....you want to blow up the world because a girl didn't love you? How shallow can you kittening get?

 

[Illnevergiveup3]

Yeah, it couldve worked out just as well. Except the Naruto ending, pairings or no pairings, was still S-H-I-T. 

 

Orochimaru, as terrible as he is, is still running wild and free and even congratulated Naruto on his wedding. This despicable man killed two Kages, tortured and experimented on innocent children and adults alike, and disgraced the Shidaime and Nidaime Hokages by having them turn against their own village (Hiruzen had to fight Edo Tensei Hashirama and Tobirama during the invasion).

 

Taka, victims of his experiments are still working for him for some reason???? And they're OK with it, even though they don't like Orochimaru in the slightest???? Suigetsu is terrified of him????

 

Didn't Naruto promise Neji that he'd change the Hyuuga system when he became Hokage? Oh, the Hyuuga, you know, a clan basically based off of slavery. Or is that promise null and void because Neji died??

 

The truth behind the Uchiha massacre is never revealed. The village still thinks Itachi went crazy or something and killed everyone, when in fact corrupt Danzo is heavily to blame. Even Sakura, Sasuke's wife (allegedly) doesn't know the truth about Sasuke's most important and tragic event in his life.

 

Are these illogical and selfish reasons? No. These are some reasons of a fan of Naruto as to why it's ending was complete kitten. NaruSaku aside, at least. Phew. Done my rant.

 

maybe you should get the copyright to Naruto so you can show Kishimoto how to write a story. 

[Phantom_999]

Marvel and DC does this all the time...especially when the fans start crying they don't like something.

Look at DC Rebirth which came about because people hated how Superman was and how he was with Wonder Woman the whole time. I get they hated Superman's character, but...

Okay this might sound hypocritical at first, but I will explain. One reason the fans hated the New52 Superman was because he was with Wonder Woman as a couple. They thought it was cliche and downright stupid. I thought it was okay...I just didn't like how Superman turned into this massive jerk and became super edgy. He made Batman look like My Little Pony.

Now, unlike NH and SS, Superman and Wonder Woman had development throughout the story. In fact, they made it look like Superman never even met Lois and Steve Trevor was too controlling for Wonder Woman's taste. I get it, try something new, but the fact that they wanted to change that aspect because "Superman had to be with Lois" and not "This is horrible writing" is disturbing.

Stories are, to me, a situation by situation evaluation. I understand that this may come off as hypocritical in how I want to change NH and SS, but keep Superman and WW together. However, DC is always changing while Naruto is one-off so there is no multiple universe Naruto...or there is, but they don't explore it much.

I just find that the way Naruto as a story went and how the fans react makes me think that they should have made NS to begin with and they should change it to them as such. Instead, they keep going with it despite the massive problems...not just with the pairings, but with how the characters are portrayed.

So in way, I want it changed because I don't like how the story is written and thinks that changing the pairings would help change all of it to start with. Meanwhile in DC I think not changing the pairings would be better and instead just changing the characters to be better personality wise instead of just saying "Kill New52 Superman off and then bring in Classic Superman" which they did in DC Rebirth. I am not sure why they turned Superman into this extremely edgy character in the mist of the New52 run, but it was a bad idea. Superman cannot be Batman. Let Superman be Superman.

Confusing? Sorry, I am trying to explain my reasoning. All stories are different in how they flow. Like I said, I base it off how the story is written in itself.

 

 

Mm, Well I perfectly agree with what you say but I just want to add my 2 cents on it. American Comic books is a situation by situation evaluation. It is because being as long running as they are, they eventually change copyrights, writers which then have their own thought process and their own conception of the character. Naruto does not have that excuse. Sure the "writers changing" part is debatable since it is not even Kishi writing the story but just doing what ever his editor says without putting his own thought process into it (and he did switch editors constantly since Yahagi left), but Naruto is a linear canon that never left  it's creator's pen and paper and never had it's copyright sold out to another company. Japanese manga is different from America comic books  in that they follow only  a singular story line without change and therefore readers have a RIGHT to demand character consistency

Edited by Phantom_999, 13 November 2017 - 08:48 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yeah, it couldve worked out just as well. Except the Naruto ending, pairings or no pairings, was still S-H-I-T. 

 

Orochimaru, as terrible as he is, is still running wild and free and even congratulated Naruto on his wedding. This despicable man killed two Kages, tortured and experimented on innocent children and adults alike, and disgraced the Shidaime and Nidaime Hokages by having them turn against their own village (Hiruzen had to fight Edo Tensei Hashirama and Tobirama during the invasion).

 

Taka, victims of his experiments are still working for him for some reason???? And they're OK with it, even though they don't like Orochimaru in the slightest???? Suigetsu is terrified of him????

 

Didn't Naruto promise Neji that he'd change the Hyuuga system when he became Hokage? Oh, the Hyuuga, you know, a clan basically based off of slavery. Or is that promise null and void because Neji died??

 

The truth behind the Uchiha massacre is never revealed. The village still thinks Itachi went crazy or something and killed everyone, when in fact corrupt Danzo is heavily to blame. Even Sakura, Sasuke's wife (allegedly) doesn't know the truth about Sasuke's most important and tragic event in his life.

 

Are these illogical and selfish reasons? No. These are some reasons of a fan of Naruto as to why it's ending was complete kitten. NaruSaku aside, at least. Phew. Done my rant.

 

That was awesome, Winter! Honestly, you nailed a lot of valid points for sure. Seriously, all those glaring plot holes in the ending for sure are all good reasons why the ending will continue to suck ass for years to come! It was all the unanswered questions and how the ninja system never really changed, and how Naruto's journey never fully came full circle in the end. It's all of that, pairings aside, that destroyed what made Naruto great, all because Masashi Kishimoto had no backbone to defend what it was he was shooting to do! He couldn't just go to his editors and say "No! I won't make NaruHina happen just because of a fandom's desires!", but he chickened out and that's how we got where we are NOW. X_X