54216 replies to this topic

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Hypocrisy, thy name is Masashi Kishimoto... XP

Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 06 November 2017 - 12:50 AM.

[DrK]

It's so screwed up how he's blatantly pushed towards Hinata in the Last (by Sakura, ironically)

 

Like if he doesn't want to walk home with her, isn't that because he probably isn't interested in her? Why do you have to tell him to do that? Just let things happen naturally.

 

Sakura really isn't a good friend for doing that. If she had any class she'd push him towards Ino. But I guess she didn't think very highly of him so she didn't want her friend to be stuck with him.

Edited by DrK, 06 November 2017 - 01:23 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

Naruto cared more about Sasuke than he did ANYTHING else. Also, if anything Naruto's  biggest obstacle was himself. He always felt that he didn't deserve anything because "I couldn't save my friend."
Being hokage? Couldn't save his friend so he didn't deserve it.
Confess his feelings to the girl of his dreams? Couldn't save his friend so he didn't deserve it.
 
Everytime Naruto had an oppotunity to be something more, he felt he didn't deserve it because "Sasuke wasn't in the village." Here is the even more sick irony of the entire situation...Naruto brainwashed Sakura to love Sasuke. "I hate people who lie to themselves." Sakura was on a fence of confusion and a chaos of feeling and thoughts. So she goes to Naruto who basically says "No, see, you're in love with Sasuke...and ONLY Sasuke because I said so. I understand feelings so I obviously know what I am talking about."
I am sorry, but no, Naruto. You don't know feelings as well as you think because you refused to let people have their own feelings.
And it comes right back at him in Naruto the Last when everyone tells him how he should feel...rather than letting feel whatever he feels is natural. "You have to love Hinata. Your love for Sakura was fake. You didn't really love anyone, but her."
The entire story of Naruto is people brainwashing everyone else to think how they want them to think and not treating them like individuals.
Naruto you brainwashed Sakura what to feel and in return they brainwashed you how to feel...and all because YOU felt you didn't deserve any of it. You felt sorry for everyone and instead of making yourself happy, you put their happiness above your own...even if it made you completely miserable...and even now everytime you have doubts...people looke at you and say "No you don't. That's just you being hungry."
I know these feelings all too well because I lived that kind of life. I got told what to feel instead of being asked how I felt.
So the moral of the Naruto story in the end?
"You have to feel what I tell you to feel otherwise I am going to beat you up...whether physically or emotionally."

Oh the Niko calling Jimmy a joke in the Revenge ending of gta 4 where he calls Jimmy a fat kittening joke before he kills him fits so well in that situation cause that's what naruto is now a fat kittening joke.

[ThroughWithLove]

Went to Denny's the other night with a couple of friends who were wasted beyond belief. Couldn't believe the moonbat crazy nonsense they were slurring while we waited for our order. Kept spouting stuff like how lepracauhns exist, 9/11 was an inside job and how Sakura wasn't a tsundere. Good grief was I embarrassed.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Went to Denny's the other night with a couple of friends who were wasted beyond belief. Couldn't believe the moonbat crazy nonsense they were slurring while we waited for our order. Kept spouting stuff like how lepracauhns exist, 9/11 was an inside job and how Sakura wasn't a tsundere. Good grief was I embarrassed.

 

Dude, don't tell me you were drunk too. 'Cause I've seen how people can get when drunk. My brother Jordan, who's 3 years and change younger than me, sometimes tends to be a ranting drunk.

[Yyubie]

What happened to Kushina's advise about alcohol? Is this supposed to be a show that kids and teenagers watch? What kind of message did you want to gave to your audience Kishi? Work hard for your dreams, throw it away and become lousy drunk leader who barely spend time with family? Looks so sad and depressing

The pro ending fan said "It's just once , hes not alcoholic!!"

I don't understand , if i kill people once i'm still not being considered a murderer/killer ?? , if use drug once i'm still not drug addict/junkies ??

And besides there is no such a thing as "ONCE" when it's about alcohol or smokes/cigar , or drugs. Once you consume it once 99% it will never stop , there's no such a thing as "ONCE" about these 3 things.

[DrK]

The pro ending fan said "It's just once , hes not alcoholic!!"

I don't understand , if i kill people once i'm still not being considered a murderer/killer ?? , if use drug once i'm still not drug addict/junkies ??

And besides there is no such a thing as "ONCE" when it's about alcohol or smokes/cigar , or drugs. Once you consume it once 99% it will never stop , there's no such a thing as "ONCE" about these 3 things.

99% really isn't accurate at all, but yeah, he's obviously an alcoholic. Dude has open bottles in his kittening office.

[Yyubie]

99% really isn't accurate at all, but yeah, he's obviously an alcoholic. Dude has open bottles in his kittening office.

Well i try to smoke too back when i was still in middle school , and the taste was extremely bitter. I wonder why so many people like it , so i ask my brother because hes a smoke addict. He said it taste sweet and i was like LOL seriously. He said i was lucky only small fraction of people can get away after smoke once. So i believe it is extremely rare case.

[DrK]

I mean, why wouldn't he be an alcoholic? His kids hate him, he ruined his life, and has to watch the woman he loved be miserable married to his best friend after she pushed him to marry someone he was never interested in. It's a pathetic existence. Why not have an escape from it? It's this kind of thing that is the reason people become alcoholics in the first place. Not just because of the effects from it. It's self-medication for a more serious problem.

[ThroughWithLove]

 

Dude, don't tell me you were drunk too. 'Cause I've seen how people can get when drunk. My brother Jordan, who's 3 years and change younger than me, sometimes tends to be a ranting drunk.

 

I got all of that out of my system in college.  Any time I'm tempted, I'm simply look back to Naruto and the effects his inability to control his alcoholism have had on his life. Two seconds of the stuff and I'll wake up married to a psycho stalker I've hardly ever interacted with beforehand. Yeesh. No thanks! 

 

 

The pro ending fan said "It's just once , hes not alcoholic!!"

I don't understand , if i kill people once i'm still not being considered a murderer/killer ?? , if use drug once i'm still not drug addict/junkies ??

And besides there is no such a thing as "ONCE" when it's about alcohol or smokes/cigar , or drugs. Once you consume it once 99% it will never stop , there's no such a thing as "ONCE" about these 3 things.

 

I know 'em when I see 'em and Naruto, or rather Boozehound Uzumaki, definitely has a serious problem with the sauce. Wouldn't be surprised if we got a rehab arc coming up that finally gets to the bottom of his paperwork lust facade.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 06 November 2017 - 04:16 AM.

[Yyubie]

I suddenly , somehow remembering this particular scene :

Remember this scene where Kakashi smooth talking Yamato to pay/treat all the ramen the three of them eat after Naruto exhausted during his training??

And then suddenly i remember how Kakashi always say lots of things like :

-Sakura is suppose to be Genjutsu type ninja

-And his inner speech/thought during team 7 fight against Kaguya where he said Sakura no longer have feelings for Sasuke.

I suddenly think that ..... maybe this is the way of Kishi saying "You cannnot trust everything Kakashi said" ??

[DrK]

I really don't like Kakashi at all now. He focused on training a kid who was clearly going insane with thoughts of revenge, and who wanted to subjugate and later destroy Naruto. He may even have known that Naruto was his sensei's son, which would make it completely inexcusable. He taught this kid who was one step away from becoming a total psycho an ASSASSINATION TECHNIQUE, which he later used on his sensei's son, which would have surely killed him if he didn't have an ancient chakra demon sealed inside him.

 

He then criticized Jiraiya for teaching Naruto a move of a similar power to the one he taught Sasuke. That was completely pathetic on his part. Jiraiya should have been criticizing Kakashi and Kakashi should have shut the hell up while he did it. I really admire Jiraiya for keeping his cool and not just beating the kitten out of Kakashi when he said that.

 

He failed to kill Obito when he had a chance, just punching him like a dumbass. Then he failed to destroy his Rinnegan. Actually wait, that might have been Sakura. Never mind.

 

Then he pushed Sakura towards Sasuke and vice versa, so he's a SS fan. This is enough to hate him on its own.

 

I understand he did cool things, but that's enough. I can't even tolerate him if he's like that.

 

He didn't deserve to be Hokage. He was a failure as a sensei and a failure as a man.

Edited by DrK, 06 November 2017 - 05:01 AM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

I really don't like Kakashi at all now. He focused on training a kid who was clearly going insane with thoughts of revenge, and who wanted to subjugate and later destroy Naruto. He may even have known that Naruto was his sensei's son, which would make it completely inexcusable. He taught this kid who was one step away from becoming a total psycho an ASSASSINATION TECHNIQUE, which he later used on his sensei's son, which would have surely killed him if he didn't have an ancient chakra demon sealed inside him.

 

He then criticized Jiraiya for teaching Naruto a move of a similar power to the one he taught Sasuke. That was completely pathetic on his part. Jiraiya should have been criticizing Kakashi and Kakashi should have shut the hell up while he did it. I really admire Jiraiya for keeping his cool and not just beating the kitten out of Kakashi when he said that.

 

He failed to kill Obito when he had a chance, just punching him like a dumbass. Then he failed to destroy his Rinnegan. Actually wait, that might have been Sakura. Never mind.

 

Then he pushed Sakura towards Sasuke and vice versa, so he's a SS fan. This is enough to hate him on its own.

 

I understand he did cool things, but that's enough. I can't even tolerate him if he's like that.

 

He didn't deserve to be Hokage. He was a failure as a sensei and a failure as a man.

And by the time Kakashi even TRIED to talk to Sasuke (only after Naruto and Sasuke's brief fight on the hospital roof), the damage was already long since done, but he's all smiles as if that one little talk was going to fix everything, still not realizing that this Team Seven was not the same as his old team beyond very basic similarities; clearly appearing to think that just because he lost everyone close to him, that somehow means Sasuke is the same as him and that he would get over it eventually even though the circumstances were, again, completely different; Sasuke's loved ones were murdered, then had his mind severely screwed with, his own brother whereas Kakashi lost his due to war or different (extreme) circumstances (Kurama's attack, or Sakumo's treatment).

This also wasn't the first time Kakashi was a hypocrite on teaching - remember when he criticized Gai for teaching Lee how to use the Eight Gates, also saying how Lee "wasn't ready" as if he, someone who didn't even know Lee at all, knew better than Gai, someone who spent most likely hours a day with Lee?

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

And by the time Kakashi even TRIED to talk to Sasuke (only after Naruto and Sasuke's brief fight on the hospital roof), the damage was already long since done, but he's all smiles as if that one little talk was going to fix everything, still not realizing that this Team Seven was not the same as his old team beyond very basic similarities; clearly appearing to think that just because he lost everyone close to him, that somehow means Sasuke is the same as him and that he would get over it eventually even though the circumstances were, again, completely different; Sasuke's loved ones were murdered, then had his mind severely screwed with, his own brother whereas Kakashi lost his due to war or different (extreme) circumstances (Kurama's attack, or Sakumo's treatment).

This also wasn't the first time Kakashi was a hypocrite on teaching - remember when he criticized Gai for teaching Lee how to use the Eight Gates, also saying how Lee "wasn't ready" as if he, someone who didn't even know Lee at all, knew better than Gai, someone who spent most likely hours a day with Lee?

 

No kidding, man. And he even claimed he was gonna kill Sasuke when Sakura was gonna try and kill him, but all he did was talk to him, even as Sasuke had tried to kill him, and thinking it would work. I bet even if Naruto and Sakura took off, Kakashi wouldn't have gone out of his way to kill Sasuke, since it shows too that he favored him too much for being a genius. It's also sad since he praised Sasuke for coming up with the Lion's Barrage, something he basically got from the start of Lee's Primary Lotus, yet he obviously looked down on Naruto when he came up with the Naruto Uzumaki Barrage, and that was done without having the fancy pants powers of the Sharingan, and just from good observation and making use of what he had to him.

[DrK]

This also wasn't the first time Kakashi was a hypocrite on teaching - remember when he criticized Gai for teaching Lee how to use the Eight Gates, also saying how Lee "wasn't ready" as if he, someone who didn't even know Lee at all, knew better than Gai, someone who spent most likely hours a day with Lee?

It would probably be easier to count the hours a day that Gai didn't spend with Lee.

 

If Kakashi doesn't do the things he did, the whole tragedy that is the Sasuke obsessed story never happens. Naruto kicks Sasuke's ass, Sasuke comes back to Konoha saying a bunch of totally crazy kitten that makes Sakura eventually lose interest, because he'd continue to treat her like pure garbage, and she falls in love with Naruto. Sasuke eventually recovers and becomes a good ninja for Konoha. Itachi smiles in the afterlife after eventually dying of his illness. Or tracks down Sasuke and commits seppuku again. Who cares, really. Screw Kakashi.

 

And yes on the Lion Combo thing. That was pathetic as well. Naruto deserved praise. Sasuke deserved a pat on the head at best. He's using an ability that is INTRINSIC to him! It would be comment-worthy if he DIDN'T use it!

 

Oh! And he caused Obito to fall victim to Madara, making the whole stupid ass plot happen in the first place, leading to the deaths of Naruto's parents and a ton of people in Konoha. Kakashi has done more harm than good damn it.

Edited by DrK, 06 November 2017 - 06:17 AM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

It would probably be easier to count the hours a day that Gai didn't spend with Lee.

 

If Kakashi doesn't do the things he did, the whole tragedy that is the Sasuke obsessed story never happens. Naruto kicks Sasuke's ass, Sasuke comes back to Konoha saying a bunch of totally crazy kitten that makes Sakura eventually lose interest, because he'd continue to treat her like pure garbage, and she falls in love with Naruto. Sasuke eventually recovers and becomes a good ninja for Konoha. Itachi smiles in the afterlife after eventually dying of his illness. Or tracks down Sasuke and commits seppuku again. Who cares, really. Screw Kakashi.

 

And yes on the Lion Combo thing. That was pathetic as well. Naruto deserved praise. Sasuke deserved a pat on the head at best. He's using an ability that is INTRINSIC to him! It would be comment-worthy if he DIDN'T use it!

 

Oh! And he caused Obito to fall victim to Madara, making the whole stupid ass plot happen in the first place, leading to the deaths of Naruto's parents and a ton of people in Konoha. Kakashi has done more harm than good damn it.

Yeah, considering Sasuke was only copying Lee's movements due to the Sharingan whereas Naruto did his own thing based on his own observation of it, and considering it was a complicated move to begin with, the fact that Naruto was able to pull it off without any training in it is far more praise-worthy than Sasuke only being able to do it because of the ability of the Sharingan and not really his own skill.

I always found Itachi's illness, as well as Kimimaro's (looking like the same thing), as copouts in order to allow their opponents to "win" when they otherwise would have been (easily) owned. In Itachi's case, it was also simply a way to get him out of the picture (until he was "needed" for more plot convenience and Sasuke flip-flopping) because he would otherwise have constantly stolen the show due to how OP he was made to be. Zetsu (while he was still just some overall unknown) commented on Itachi, with his natural skills and Susano'o with the Sword of Totsuka, was "invincible" and even "Tobi" told Sasuke that if Itachi had been serious about killing him, he could have done so instantly whenever he chose (and that was when he was 95% blind and crippled from his convenient illness).

It feels like Kishi tried to base Itachi on ones like Hiko Seijuro XIII from Rurouni Kenshin - a side character, and Kensin's master, who was the most OP character in the series; someone who could have effortlessly defeated any and every opponent Kenshin faced throughout the entire series if he were to be involved. From the wikia...

"Nobuhiro Watsuki has mentioned in character notes that he is comparable to the Joker in a deck of cards because he is so powerful. As such, he ended up being difficult to include in the story because he could simply solve Kenshin's problems with little effort, and because finding opponents for him would be difficult without overshadowing Kenshin's own opponents. Due to this, his only fight in the series is with the giant Fuji, another "Joker" card that defeated Kyoto's entire police force single handed, but was not involved in the story in a narrative sense. Thus Hiko does not appear except in flashbacks once the Kyoto arc finishes, though he is featured in the OVA series and Watsuki has stated that he wished he could have used Hiko more often."

...so it's most likely due to that power that Watsuki also carefully crafted Hiko and his personal belief in the Hiten-Mitsurugi Ryu being a "free sword" that is not loyal to any ideology or power in order to explain why Hiko doesn't just step in and help Kenshin against Makoto Shishio, the main antagonist of that arc, thus solving all the problems involved.

And the whole thing with Kakashi killing Rin was also just so out of left field too. How was Rin captured? How was Kiri able to turn her into a Jinchuriki and also essentially a living time bomb? Why would Kiri want to destroy Konoha to begin with? It's not like we have any history of bad blood or grudges like they have with Iwa and Kumo. It's just more copouts and lazy writing.

[Shashank95]

Yeah, considering Sasuke was only copying Lee's movements due to the Sharingan whereas Naruto did his own thing based on his own observation of it, and considering it was a complicated move to begin with, the fact that Naruto was able to pull it off without any training in it is far more praise-worthy than Sasuke only being able to do it because of the ability of the Sharingan and not really his own skill.

I always found Itachi's illness, as well as Kimimaro's (looking like the same thing), as copouts in order to allow their opponents to "win" when they otherwise would have been (easily) owned. In Itachi's case, it was also simply a way to get him out of the picture (until he was "needed" for more plot convenience and Sasuke flip-flopping) because he would otherwise have constantly stolen the show due to how OP he was made to be. Zetsu (while he was still just some overall unknown) commented on Itachi, with his natural skills and Susano'o with the Sword of Totsuka, was "invincible" and even "Tobi" told Sasuke that if Itachi had been serious about killing him, he could have done so instantly whenever he chose (and that was when he was 95% blind and crippled from his convenient illness).

It feels like Kishi tried to base Itachi on ones like Hiko Seijuro XIII from Rurouni Kenshin - a side character, and Kensin's master, who was the most OP character in the series; someone who could have effortlessly defeated any and every opponent Kenshin faced throughout the entire series if he were to be involved. From the wikia...

"Nobuhiro Watsuki has mentioned in character notes that he is comparable to the Joker in a deck of cards because he is so powerful. As such, he ended up being difficult to include in the story because he could simply solve Kenshin's problems with little effort, and because finding opponents for him would be difficult without overshadowing Kenshin's own opponents. Due to this, his only fight in the series is with the giant Fuji, another "Joker" card that defeated Kyoto's entire police force single handed, but was not involved in the story in a narrative sense. Thus Hiko does not appear except in flashbacks once the Kyoto arc finishes, though he is featured in the OVA series and Watsuki has stated that he wished he could have used Hiko more often."

...so it's most likely due to that power that Watsuki also carefully crafted Hiko and his personal belief in the Hiten-Mitsurugi Ryu being a "free sword" that is not loyal to any ideology or power in order to explain why Hiko doesn't just step in and help Kenshin against Makoto Shishio, the main antagonist of that arc, thus solving all the problems involved.

And the whole thing with Kakashi killing Rin was also just so out of left field too. How was Rin captured? How was Kiri able to turn her into a Jinchuriki and also essentially a living time bomb? Why would Kiri want to destroy Konoha to begin with? It's not like we have any history of bad blood or grudges like they have with Iwa and Kumo. It's just more copouts and lazy writing.

 

Oh please. I still don't understand why people think Itachi is that powerful. There are only statements of him defeating Orochimaru and the like and him whooping Sasuke's ass.

I bet you Gai could have killed Itachi faster than he wrecked Kisame. I don't understand this mindset that people have regarding Itachi and Madara. Like they're some kind of unbeatable badasses.

[tricksie]

Yeah, considering Sasuke was only copying Lee's movements due to the Sharingan whereas Naruto did his own thing based on his own observation of it, and considering it was a complicated move to begin with, the fact that Naruto was able to pull it off without any training in it is far more praise-worthy than Sasuke only being able to do it because of the ability of the Sharingan and not really his own skill.

I always found Itachi's illness, as well as Kimimaro's (looking like the same thing), as copouts in order to allow their opponents to "win" when they otherwise would have been (easily) owned. In Itachi's case, it was also simply a way to get him out of the picture (until he was "needed" for more plot convenience and Sasuke flip-flopping) because he would otherwise have constantly stolen the show due to how OP he was made to be. Zetsu (while he was still just some overall unknown) commented on Itachi, with his natural skills and Susano'o with the Sword of Totsuka, was "invincible" and even "Tobi" told Sasuke that if Itachi had been serious about killing him, he could have done so instantly whenever he chose (and that was when he was 95% blind and crippled from his convenient illness).

 

...

And the whole thing with Kakashi killing Rin was also just so out of left field too. How was Rin captured? How was Kiri able to turn her into a Jinchuriki and also essentially a living time bomb? Why would Kiri want to destroy Konoha to begin with? It's not like we have any history of bad blood or grudges like they have with Iwa and Kumo. It's just more copouts and lazy writing.

Agree on all of it - Sasuke is billed as the prodigy and genius, but really, his genius was in copying things (as that's what the sharingan allowed you to do). So no big surprise there. But Naruto has no such skill. So his comes from power, determination and sheer grit. It's unfortunate that this divide was not focused on more as they grew up: Sasuke becoming a master copy ninja and Naruto becoming a power-based one. Who ultimately is more powerful? Where does real genius lie, in replication or innovation? And Kakashi would have been a good example of that later one too, as the all powerful and fearsome Copy Ninja, who's better known for his sharing skills than for his own clan and namesake's skills. So it could have been a statement about which is better copying someone else's moves or refining your own. But...Kishi dropped that thread, and comparing and contrasting Sasuke and Naruto's power was let go. 

 

Itachi's illness — yes, I would have liked to have seen more of that. And have it tied somehow to the 'cursed clan' instead of boo-hoo-they-love-too-much-and-it-makes-them-crazy. Itachi's illness could have ramped up Sasuke's story if he knew that if he overused his sharingan it might kill him too. His illness was a cop-out, but it could have been a good facet to the Uchiha backstory. 

 

Kakashi killing Rin — another missed opportunity. As you said, there's no backstory around it, some of the details don't make sense (like when you look at the timeline, etc) and when you try to make sense of Tobi/Obito so quickly being able to go back and kill Minato. It just doesn't hold water if you think about it too much. But the worst about Kakashi and Rin is that if Kakashi-Rin-Obito are supposed to be Sasuke-Sakura-Naruto, then there is foreshadowing for Sasuke 'killing' Sakura in Kakashi's backstory. But the Obito/Naruto parallel never comes full circle because where Obito freaks out and tries to kill everyone, Naruto just goes 'Eh, don't be so hard on her,' and moves on. Naruto is not Obito, and the parallel falls apart. So it's a missed opportunity because that flashback could have informed their future — Kakashi could have used his past to help change the future, and not make his same mistakes (you know, intervene with Sakura in the name of Rin). But he doesn't. 

 

 

Oh please. I still don't understand why people think Itachi is that powerful. There are only statements of him defeating Orochimaru and the like and him whooping Sasuke's ass.

I bet you Gai could have killed Itachi faster than he wrecked Kisame. I don't understand this mindset that people have regarding Itachi and Madara. Like they're some kind of unbeatable badasses.

Yeah - Itachi was billed as being a bigger prodigy than Sasuke. And he always has a-plan-beneath-a-plan. But when he turned out to be a martyr then his whole story fell apart. I wish Itachi was someone corrupted by his own power who yet still loved his brother. So he was deeply complicated. Not that he loved peace so much he killed everyone he came across, like we're told in the story. 

[Shashank95]

Agree on all of it - Sasuke is billed as the prodigy and genius, but really, his genius was in copying things (as that's what the sharingan allowed you to do). So no big surprise there. But Naruto has no such skill. So his comes from power, determination and sheer grit. It's unfortunate that this divide was not focused on more as they grew up: Sasuke becoming a master copy ninja and Naruto becoming a power-based one. Who ultimately is more powerful? Where does real genius lie, in replication or innovation? And Kakashi would have been a good example of that later one too, as the all powerful and fearsome Copy Ninja, who's better known for his sharing skills than for his own clan and namesake's skills. So it could have been a statement about which is better copying someone else's moves or refining your own. But...Kishi dropped that thread, and comparing and contrasting Sasuke and Naruto's power was let go. 

 

Itachi's illness — yes, I would have liked to have seen more of that. And have it tied somehow to the 'cursed clan' instead of boo-hoo-they-love-too-much-and-it-makes-them-crazy. Itachi's illness could have ramped up Sasuke's story if he knew that if he overused his sharingan it might kill him too. His illness was a cop-out, but it could have been a good facet to the Uchiha backstory. 

 

Kakashi killing Rin — another missed opportunity. As you said, there's no backstory around it, some of the details don't make sense (like when you look at the timeline, etc) and when you try to make sense of Tobi/Obito so quickly being able to go back and kill Minato. It just doesn't hold water if you think about it too much. But the worst about Kakashi and Rin is that if Kakashi-Rin-Obito are supposed to be Sasuke-Sakura-Naruto, then there is foreshadowing for Sasuke 'killing' Sakura in Kakashi's backstory. But the Obito/Naruto parallel never comes full circle because where Obito freaks out and tries to kill everyone, Naruto just goes 'Eh, don't be so hard on her,' and moves on. Naruto is not Obito, and the parallel falls apart. So it's a missed opportunity because that flashback could have informed their future — Kakashi could have used his past to help change the future, and not make his same mistakes (you know, intervene with Sakura in the name of Rin). But he doesn't. 

 

Yeah - Itachi was billed as being a bigger prodigy than Sasuke. And he always has a-plan-beneath-a-plan. But when he turned out to be a martyr then his whole story fell apart. I wish Itachi was someone corrupted by his own power who yet still loved his brother. So he was deeply complicated. Not that he loved peace so much he killed everyone he came across, like we're told in the story. 

And I stil l wonder whatever happened to this:

 

 

Rock Lee was the one good thing in Naruto past shippuden. He didn't focus on him.

 

Kishi, in my opinion didn't show any Uchiha as a pure villain. It's like they're always shown as victims of circumstances all the time really cheapening the characters.

Itachi was like a gary-stue. No flaws, posses crazy powers and mystical all sealing blade and all reflecting mirror? Could the Uchiha wank get anymore obvious?

Edited by Shashank95, 06 November 2017 - 03:51 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Agree on all of it - Sasuke is billed as the prodigy and genius, but really, his genius was in copying things (as that's what the sharingan allowed you to do). So no big surprise there. But Naruto has no such skill. So his comes from power, determination and sheer grit. It's unfortunate that this divide was not focused on more as they grew up: Sasuke becoming a master copy ninja and Naruto becoming a power-based one. Who ultimately is more powerful? Where does real genius lie, in replication or innovation? And Kakashi would have been a good example of that later one too, as the all powerful and fearsome Copy Ninja, who's better known for his sharing skills than for his own clan and namesake's skills. So it could have been a statement about which is better copying someone else's moves or refining your own. But...Kishi dropped that thread, and comparing and contrasting Sasuke and Naruto's power was let go. 

 

Itachi's illness — yes, I would have liked to have seen more of that. And have it tied somehow to the 'cursed clan' instead of boo-hoo-they-love-too-much-and-it-makes-them-crazy. Itachi's illness could have ramped up Sasuke's story if he knew that if he overused his sharingan it might kill him too. His illness was a cop-out, but it could have been a good facet to the Uchiha backstory. 

 

Kakashi killing Rin — another missed opportunity. As you said, there's no backstory around it, some of the details don't make sense (like when you look at the timeline, etc) and when you try to make sense of Tobi/Obito so quickly being able to go back and kill Minato. It just doesn't hold water if you think about it too much. But the worst about Kakashi and Rin is that if Kakashi-Rin-Obito are supposed to be Sasuke-Sakura-Naruto, then there is foreshadowing for Sasuke 'killing' Sakura in Kakashi's backstory. But the Obito/Naruto parallel never comes full circle because where Obito freaks out and tries to kill everyone, Naruto just goes 'Eh, don't be so hard on her,' and moves on. Naruto is not Obito, and the parallel falls apart. So it's a missed opportunity because that flashback could have informed their future — Kakashi could have used his past to help change the future, and not make his same mistakes (you know, intervene with Sakura in the name of Rin). But he doesn't. 

 

Yeah - Itachi was billed as being a bigger prodigy than Sasuke. And he always has a-plan-beneath-a-plan. But when he turned out to be a martyr then his whole story fell apart. I wish Itachi was someone corrupted by his own power who yet still loved his brother. So he was deeply complicated. Not that he loved peace so much he killed everyone he came across, like we're told in the story. 

 

I know how you feel with all of this, Tricksie. :) I am trying to figure out stuff that would work to fitting all of that into The Demon Within, since it is gonna be a true AU in the sense that even if it has some events from canon, it actually is gonna have to explain better the stuff Kishimoto screwed up on  big time when he had so many options and opportunities to do so and yet pissed them away.

 

And I stil l wonder whatever happened to this:

 

 

Rock Lee was the one good thing in Naruto past shippuden. He didn't focus on him.

 

Kishi, in my opinion didn't show any Uchiha as a pure villain. It's like they're always shown as victims of circumstances all the time really cheapening the characters.

Itachi was like a gary-stue. No flaws, posses crazy powers and mystical all sealing blade and all reflecting mirror? Could the Uchiha wank get anymore obvious?

 

Yeah, Shashank, if it was me, I'd have made Madara pure evil itself, corrupted by his own power, while with Itachi, I could have done better in terms of how to handle his power curve as well, without making it seem as if it'd be that simple, but to show he is a really smart ninja, but also failed in other areas, which led to the events that occurred with him.