9679 replies to this topic

[merryGOflava]

That's what I thought when I first read it! Kushina did sound homophobic and I didn't like that. Maybe that's why I don't like her as much... There are only men and women in this world and surely you'll want a girlfriend, no way my son and the main character in the show could ever possibly be gay.

well how else is he supposed to continue the uzumaki clan??? and theres no way for naruto to be gay, sorry.

[Fliss]

Geeze the word homophobic sure is tossed around a lot nowadays

[merryGOflava]

Geeze the word homophobic sure is tossed around a lot nowadays

i dont think most ppl are homophobic, just probably don't encourage the thought of homosexual relationships, or are so used to a guy and girl relationship that they just assume its that way.

i mean lets face it. naruto gay? plz, i cant even imagine sasuke gay.

[Greed-Sama]

i dont think most ppl are homophobic, just probably don't encourage the thought of homosexual relationships, or are so used to a guy and girl relationship that they just assume its that way.

i mean lets face it. naruto gay? plz, i cant even imagine sasuke gay.

Encouraging? Maybe not. But I'm not going to go out of my way to say that it's wrong or right or whatever anyone else thinks to adults who are mature enough to decide for themselves.

[Eva Chen]

LOL, that sounds like a fun person to be arguing against.
They argue their point, and then say they'll delete any further comments by you. How incredibly immature. To me, that's the equivalent of a little kid throwing a water balloon at someone, and then yelling, "TRUCE! TRUCE!".

Sorry if that sounded like a rant, or if that person is a friend of yours. I know that NH fans like that aren't necessarily the majority, but comments like that still push me to my limit. It's one of the reasons I've all but given up on real shipping debates (at least with NH/SS fans) until the series ends.

haha I love your opinion, yeah I can't reply her comment because she say will delete it, so whatever about her
no, she isn't my friend. my classmate is NH fan and she is (kind a) annoying
even if I say about the NS evidences, she still believe NH will be the last

That's what I thought when I first read it! Kushina did sound homophobic and I didn't like that. Maybe that's why I don't like her as much... There are only men and women in this world and surely you'll want a girlfriend, no way my son and the main character in the show could ever possibly be gay.

A mother never want her son to be gay someday..
but maybe Kishi is a yaoi lover, LOL
-> Naruto and Sasuke's first kiss
-> Don't forget about Zabuza and Haku

[tricksie]

That comment by Kushina actually surprised me a little. I mean, sure, most main characters in shounen like this are heterosexual, but it still sounded a little homophobic to me. Sort of like, "alright my son, there's no possible way you could ever grow up to be homosexual, so I won't even acknowledge it in my final words to you". Maybe I'm making that scene too complicated though.
Thinking about it though, if Naruto really does take his mom's words to heart, that scene did a lot more damage to the SasuNaru pairing than it did to NaruHina.

It was an oddly worded statement. But I don't think it was meant as an intentional slight to one pairing or lifestyle. I took it as one of those standard "Son, you'll be a man soon...." sort of talks. This is one of those statements where I'd like to see the hard-and-fast translation before I look deeper into some meaning by the author behind it. (If it turns out to be the right translation, then I would say it was maybe Kishi's way of cutting off the two other hoped-for pairings, NH and NaruSasu.) But again, it all hinges on the translation of the original.

My first thought when I read it was that it was ironic that she was telling a kid who has a demon's chakra contained inside him that there are only men and women in this world.

[Anguyen92]

That's what I thought when I first read it! Kushina did sound homophobic and I didn't like that. Maybe that's why I don't like her as much... There are only men and women in this world and surely you'll want a girlfriend, no way my son and the main character in the show could ever possibly be gay.

I honestly think if that's the case, then it's really pushing it too far. She just basically says, find a girl like your mother to grow old and have children with, that's basically it.

Edited by anguyen92, 15 July 2011 - 02:13 PM.

[Codus N]

Good god, are we debating this AGAIN?? a couple of a 1000 posts back, Kushina (or Paptala, I can't remember) had shown us Viz's translation of Kushina's words and apparently, it was pairing-neutral. Someone at MH, who is also a neutral side on pairings even confirmed it.

Here's the translation (from MH):

Kushina: "and as for women... well, I'm a woman so I don't know what to say, but there are only men and women in this world, and you'll want a girlfriend someday... just try not to pick a weird one... try to find somone like your mother."
Kushina: "and the problematic vice... women. I'm a girl myself, so i don't really know... but the world only has males and females... you'll probably find an interest a girl, so don't get reeled in by a strange girl... find a girl like me, your mother."
Kushina does not mention Naruto 'picking' a girl... but rather being picked BY a weird girl.

Now my only problem is where the heck was Viz's translation for comparison. I know it's somewhere within this deep abyss of a thread.

[alexander]

Homophobic or perhaps you guys are been very touchy-feeling. And also reading too much into things.

[Derock]

Homophobic or perhaps you guys are been very touchy-feeling. And also reading too much into things.

That's goes to anybody in the fandom including the pairings, in a matter of reading too much into things. Honestly, like one of the members said, Kushina's quote screamed that it just knocked NaruSasu out of the ballpark and the ball isn't coming back to the playing field (even though it is NOT and will NOT be canon which many of the yaoi fans/fangirls need to listen and understand).

Also, keep in mind that this is a Shonen manga that is dedicated towards audiences of older kids (possibly starting at 8 or 9 years old) to teenagers. We're supposed to read, translate, and talk topics near/at that level, not near variety of topics that are suitable for adults discussing like the seinen mangas.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

The only thing I worry about now is if Kishimoto-sensei is just gonna ignore all the NaruSaku hints we've had and still have Sakura pine as much for Sasuke as she did as a kid. I mean, that's the impression others online have gotten, like in places like YouTube. I mean, I've seen a discussion at YouTube for OP9 of Shippuden where some people just feel after all that's happened all Sakura feels is love for Sasuke and not a chance of it for Naruto. Which worries me given the evidence to it seems to state the contrary. What worries me is we won't get some resolve for it... and I also worry Naruto assumes Sakura still hates him like she said to him when he was Sasuke and such, even if he doesn't realize how so much of her reactions weren't to anyone else alone, but also for him.

[Super Boom]

Good god, are we debating this AGAIN?? a couple of a 1000 posts back, Kushina (or Paptala, I can't remember) had shown us Viz's translation of Kushina's words and apparently, it was pairing-neutral. Someone at MH, who is also a neutral side on pairings even confirmed it.

A lot of people on the Debate Thread have only been here for a few months (me included), so it's only natural some talking points will be brought up again. Besides, I don't mind seeing old points brought up if newer members want to bring something to the discussion. Usually the Debate Thread is just a Reassurance Thread, or people just complaining about how their Harry Potter or Digimon pairings didn't work out.

Not that there's anything wrong with those kind of discussions, I just prefer something debate-worthy every once in a while.

Now my only problem is where the heck was Viz's translation for comparison. I know it's somewhere within this deep abyss of a thread.

I actually saw that a while back (I lurked here for a while before getting an account). I think the Viz Media translation read along the lines of, "Don't fall for the first girl who comes your way, make sure you find someone like your mother" (paraphrased from memory, so it's probably off by a bit). That one seems more pairing-neutral to me, since it's up to individual interpretation on who really "came his way" first.

In any case, the original translation still seems more anti-NH than anything. Even if Naruto doesn't think she's strange anymore, Hinata's one of the only characters to be given that description canonically. On top of that, Kushina and Hinata contrast by quite a lot, in terms of their overall personalities. I'm trying not to let my bias get in the way, but that's the way I see it.

[tricksie]

Also, keep in mind that this is a Shonen manga that is dedicated towards audiences of older kids (possibly starting at 8 or 9 years old) to teenagers. We're supposed to read, translate, and talk topics near/at that level, not near variety of topics that are suitable for adults discussing like the seinen mangas.

Hmmm... Playing devil's advocate here, it's nice to think that this is a pre-teen to teen target audience, but Kishimoto definitely throws in sexual scenes that I wouldn't be comfortable showing to a pre- to mid-teen: specifically a few of Naruto's sexy jutsus (wasn't there one with a pole?) and the Sasuke/Sai pic for Sakura.

I think he walks a line, and you can read into it at whatever age your at. Meaning, it wouldn't come right out and offend a younger audience; a slightly older, more worldy-wise audience might catch on; and an older audience can read between the lines.

Anyway, no one else thought with Kushina's statement "there's only men and women in this world," that it was sort of out-of-place? Not only are Naruto and several others fused with demon chakra, but they have animal summons all over the place. Not saying inter-species marriage or anything, but my first thought was there's a hell of a lot more in their world than in ours.

[Fyuria'sLeo]

Anyway, no one else thought with Kushina's statement "there's only men and women in this world," that it was sort of out-of-place? Not only are Naruto and several others fused with demon chakra, but they have animal summons all over the place. Not saying inter-species marriage or anything, but my first thought was there's a hell of a lot more in their world than in ours.

that made me laugh, this never crossed my mind at all.

[TerrorKing]

Hmmm... Playing devil's advocate here, it's nice to think that this is a pre-teen to teen target audience, but Kishimoto definitely throws in sexual scenes that I wouldn't be comfortable showing to a pre- to mid-teen: specifically a few of Naruto's sexy jutsus (wasn't there one with a pole?) and the Sasuke/Sai pic for Sakura.

I think he walks a line, and you can read into it at whatever age your at. Meaning, it wouldn't come right out and offend a younger audience; a slightly older, more worldy-wise audience might catch on; and an older audience can read between the lines.

Anyway, no one else thought with Kushina's statement "there's only men and women in this world," that it was sort of out-of-place? Not only are Naruto and several others fused with demon chakra, but they have animal summons all over the place. Not saying inter-species marriage or anything, but my first thought was there's a hell of a lot more in their world than in ours.

I agree. Its really awesome that a series that is mostly targeted towards young boys can also be enjoyed by an older audience of both genders. Its kinda like the new My Little Pony. Even though it was originally intended for young girls, a large part of its demographic is adult males and I also understand that a lot of parents actually enjoy watching it with their kids, since the stories also deal with things that adults find interesting.

Actually I've always felt that same way with Naruto. On the surface it might be easy to deem it a "kids show", but on a deeper level it actually deals with some pretty mature topics like prejudism, bullying and, in my mind, how certain aspects of society (i.e. the clan system and the shinobi system) essentially strips kids of their innocense and forces them to grow up way too fast.

Of course the anime is probably the worst culprit when it comes to the whole "kids show" stigma, because of the fillers and way it has been marketed, but still at its core, there are a lot of good things that people can learn from this story, no matter their age.

And yeah, I definetly thought that the whole "there's only men and women in this world" statement was confusing. In fact, until today when I read through this thread, I didn't have the faintest idea what it meant. Especially because, like you said, there aren't really just men and women in this world. There's also demons and giant frogs and snakes and toads etc. Of course that doesn't mean that I want NaruKichi to suddenly become canon, Im just saying.

Edited by TerrorKing, 15 July 2011 - 05:14 PM.

[Super Boom]

Anyway, no one else thought with Kushina's statement "there's only men and women in this world," that it was sort of out-of-place? Not only are Naruto and several others fused with demon chakra, but they have animal summons all over the place. Not saying inter-species marriage or anything, but my first thought was there's a hell of a lot more in their world than in ours.

Well, I guess the way I see it is that to be considered a romantic interest, the character in question would most likely be anthropomorphic to some degree. I mean, the demons and summon creatures all seem to talk, so they can easily be labelled as man or woman based on that. Fukasaku and his wife (I can't remember her name, he always called her "Ma") seemed to have gender. I think the "there are only men and women in this world" line is more just saying there are only two genders in this world, sort of like male/female = man/woman. Though it might just be the case that Kishi wasn't considering bestiality ships when he wrote that line, since it's more based on Naruto's future romantic interest.

Edited by Boom...Winning, 15 July 2011 - 08:56 PM.

[Haaky]

I think he was just trying to say that there are only men and women as genders. Witch is true if
you exclude shemales. Oh God can't believe I brought that one up xD

[bthug]

WHAT if were the ones that kishi is just trying to keep watching and reading so he throws us a bone every now and then, but he is ultimately planning a SS or a none pairing ending.
It could happen, cause we say that he throws a bone for SS every now and then but in reality its the other way around.

[Nate River]

Of course the anime is probably the worst culprit when it comes to the whole "kids show" stigma, because of the fillers and way it has been marketed, but still at its core, there are a lot of good things that people can learn from this story, no matter their age.

I think it's mostly because of a prevailing belief in our culture that animated programs are for kids. I don't think the belief is as strong as it used to be, but for my parents generation, I think that belief is still quite strong since for them, most animated programs was for kids.