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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#46321 DrK

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 04:38 PM

This whole idea of killing someone to stop them from being so evil is so kittened up too and never used by the story before or again. Hashirama didn't kill Madara because he wanted his friend to stop being evil, he killed him because he kittening had to. If the good guys in the manga should now kill people because they cry manly or girl's heart tears over the thought of them doing evil things Sasuke should have been dead 10 times over. Sakura shouldn't have even had a chance to put that kunai on him. It was non thematic and stupid

 

And that was a great idea with Hanami. I don't know why I didn't think of that. I guess I was obsessed with the idea of Himawari being a heroic martyr for NaruSaku. The irony of it.


Edited by DrK, 24 October 2017 - 04:40 PM.


#46322 DrK

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 04:47 PM

I Love My Stalker. Sounds like an episode of Springer



#46323 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 04:48 PM

I Love My Stalker. Sounds like an episode of Springer


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#46324 James S Cassidy

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 05:03 PM

This whole idea of killing someone to stop them from being so evil is so kittened up too and never used by the story before or again. Hashirama didn't kill Madara because he wanted his friend to stop being evil, he killed him because he kittening had to. If the good guys in the manga should now kill people because they cry manly or girl's heart tears over the thought of them doing evil things Sasuke should have been dead 10 times over. Sakura shouldn't have even had a chance to put that kunai on him. It was non thematic and stupid

It is a stupid reason to take someone's life. Usually, when you do go this route, you have the hero become corrupted and have a new idea that killing is the new age of justice and protection. Look at some of the Superman alternate stories when Superman got pushed to kill. In every single one of those stories, despite Superman still being somewhat a good guy in a way, he kills because he feels it was a means to hold up justice and in a way it does make sense. Joker was a bad guy who kept killing over and over again...so they kill him to prevent more lives to be taken.

However, what starts out as somewhat a sensible means turns into killing anyobody for even minor offenses because they become so radical with the ideal of their justice that they feel any threat...big or small...is too great of threat to the establishment and just kill, kill, kill in the name of it.

Killing should be a last resort. Not for the sake of saving the person doing the killing, but saving everyone else that this person threatens. Still, what pisses me off the most is how Sakura and Naruto knows how evil he is and instead of saying "Sasuke is evil and I was completely wrong about him" they instead goes with this idea of "Sasuke is evil because someone brainwashed him to be evil." It was Sasuke's choice to go with Orochimaru. It was Sasuke's choice to go rogue. It was Sasuke's choice to go against everyone and everything, but instead of saying "Sasuke made his own choices" they have to "save him from himself."

I always hated this plot point that people push in any story because it is more insulting to the villain by patronizing them saying "Well, you're too stupid to know what is good for you and you have no mind of your own even if you make all decisions yourself." That doesn't work in the court of law and it shouldn't work anywhere else.
 

 

And that was a great idea with Hanami. I don't know why I didn't think of that. I guess I was obsessed with the idea of Himawari being a heroic martyr for NaruSaku. The irony of it.

Thanks. I just think it would mean a lot more and in a way an almost kind of reward for their service. You don't die and cease to exist you just transform into something better. LIke a catipiller to a butterfly.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 24 October 2017 - 05:11 PM.

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#46325 LuckyChi7

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 05:08 PM

hearing The clues are there, it's all foreshadowed, all planned: 

 

 

Me:

 

314137_a.jpg


4e26f1bc8d604925166ad9bb2f431f5cc8eb6385

 

 

THAT'S WHAT HEROES DO, THEY SAVE PEOPLE!!


#46326 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 05:15 PM

hearing The clues are there, it's all foreshadowed, all planned: 

 

 

Me:

 

314137_a.jpg

 

I know how you feel, Chi. Same with Gin here. X-D Honestly, to claim the clues for NH happening were there is nothing but a load of crap when it was pushed because of Studio Pierrot, Kishimoto's lack of a backbone, and his editors.



#46327 NarutoUzumaki01

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 05:27 PM

hearing The clues are there, it's all foreshadowed, all planned: 

 

 

Me:

 

314137_a.jpg

One would think that comedy manga has nothing on Naruto, but it literally has bested it in all aspectes but flashy names of techniques.

Nvm, I'm not jinxing it  :lmao:


Edited by NarutoUzumaki01, 24 October 2017 - 05:29 PM.


#46328 Shadow Wolf

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 07:25 PM

 
This is the only point I'm going to respond to because otherwise we're going to be here all day and the fanfiction already exists anyway. The fact that you thought that this was at all a good argument says so much about you. You're assuming that Sakura has permanently friendzoned Naruto and only loves Sasuke because that is what you think for whatever reason. That isn't what most people who like Naruto and Sakura think. So you see it as the bench scene creating a sudden 180 turnaround wow I love Naruto now. No.
 
Sakura in the story is very, very close to Naruto. He is her most precious person. If you want to argue that Sasuke is, then why then did she attempt to kill Sasuke to protect Naruto? And do not say it's because she loved him too much to let him be evil. That was an absolutely ridiculous claim made by the canon, because it postulates a level of love sufficient to want to kill someone who is in darkness, but not sufficient to actually carry out that murder attempt. That is not at all compelling.
 
So if Naruto is Sakura's most precious person, but she thinks she loves Sasuke, you can see why people think learning about the bench scene would suddenly flip her views. It's not ridiculous at all. If Naruto is her most precious person, then him being a romantic partner of hers only requires chemistry. And you can easily get chemistry. They had romantic moments in the story.
 
The bench scene would have been absolutely massive for Sakura. It tells her that Sasuke is willing to come out of his shell just for her. That he likes her.He's attracted to her. Not just to her, but to her imperfections. Not just to her imperfections, but to the one imperfection she absolutely hates. It gives the impression he understands her, when the real Sasuke absolutely did not, but Naruto ironically did. Sakura would have been left with the impression that Sasuke secretly felt a certain way, but was just too shy to do anything after that. That is just horrible to think about if you are Naruto, or even if you are Sakura. I hope you actually understand it now. But I don't have anything else to say to you.


Doctor K in the house with your daily dose of "turn down for what"!!!

But seriously, this is a very well crafted post, and I quite frankly don't have anything but praise for this.

Now, don't let the creative juices stop... Here's my own version:

I remember a scene in where Naruto was sitting in the bench mourning Jiraiya. I am not sure if Sakura was there at one time with Naruto, but I imagine them just being there in the bench, talking and supporting each other as they have always done. I can imagine them talking about whatever happened to Sasuke and during the conversation, one of them brings out this scene. To me, it has to be Sakura because this would start to trigger closure on her feelings. During the conversation I imagine her talking about how she wanted to be acknowledged by Sasuke and about the comment on her forehead. Considering how clumsy Naruto is, I can imagine him trying to support her and blurting out something like "and you still have a charming forehead". Of course, this would make Sakura realize why Sasuke acted in two different ways in the same day (1-Charming forehead and 2-You're annoying), because the 1st was never Sasuke in the first place. With her Tsundere behavior, I imagine her pulling a "post-Pain" scene: she punches Naruto in the head but proceeds to hold him too, realizing that it was this "baka" who was the one who was always there, encouraging her and of course, the one who gave her confidence from the start ("fake" confession resolved and bench scene resolved: two birds with one stone). From here out, let the romantic scene play however it goes best with them. I can even imagine Naruto trying to kiss her only to receive a punch, but Sakura telling her that he can at least kiss her forehead (after all, Naruto has dreamed of this all along, but Sakura may still consider him a bit of a pervert. Hence why things would not go so fast).

Yeah, that's more or less my take on it. Anyway, I have seen a few ideas, but bring out the creative juices people. :)

#46329 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 08:23 PM

This whole idea of killing someone to stop them from being so evil is so kittened up too and never used by the story before or again. Hashirama didn't kill Madara because he wanted his friend to stop being evil, he killed him because he kittening had to. If the good guys in the manga should now kill people because they cry manly or girl's heart tears over the thought of them doing evil things Sasuke should have been dead 10 times over. Sakura shouldn't have even had a chance to put that kunai on him. It was non thematic and stupid

 

And that was a great idea with Hanami. I don't know why I didn't think of that. I guess I was obsessed with the idea of Himawari being a heroic martyr for NaruSaku. The irony of it.

Exactly - previous Hokages were able to set aside their personal connections for the greater good, but just because they did so, that doesn't suddenly completely change who they are otherwise.

Hashirama killed (or he thought he did anyway) Madara because he ended up becoming a threat to Konoha, the very thing the two created together in order to bring an end to the Clan Wars. To choose between Madara, someone who barely could be called a "friend" anymore, or his brother and all the people of Konoha, including other Uchiha, and quite possibly other villages who could get caught in the crossfire, it should be a no-brainer. Does that mean Hashirama is now no longer able to still yearn for the peace he was working for? Of course not.

Hiruzen and Jiraiya both knew that Orochimaru had become a danger, but unlike Hashirama, the two were unable to bring themselves to kill him because of their past personal connections to him, allowing Orochimaru to escape and commit all sorts of heinous crimes against humanity.

Minato knew that he would be depriving Naruto of himself and Kushina with using the Shiki Fuin, but he did so because if he didn't, Kurama and Obito would not only kill Naruto, but Konoha and much of the rest of the shinobi world.

Naruto couldn't bring himself to kill Sasuke at all, thus Sasuke was able to do the things he did. (And you had Tsunade, due to her personal connection to Naruto and Sakura, then never labeling Sasuke a missing-nin so he wouldn't be hunted down.)

 

It is a stupid reason to take someone's life. Usually, when you do go this route, you have the hero become corrupted and have a new idea that killing is the new age of justice and protection. Look at some of the Superman alternate stories when Superman got pushed to kill. In every single one of those stories, despite Superman still being somewhat a good guy in a way, he kills because he feels it was a means to hold up justice and in a way it does make sense. Joker was a bad guy who kept killing over and over again...so they kill him to prevent more lives to be taken.

However, what starts out as somewhat a sensible means turns into killing anyobody for even minor offenses because they become so radical with the ideal of their justice that they feel any threat...big or small...is too great of threat to the establishment and just kill, kill, kill in the name of it.

Killing should be a last resort. Not for the sake of saving the person doing the killing, but saving everyone else that this person threatens. Still, what pisses me off the most is how Sakura and Naruto knows how evil he is and instead of saying "Sasuke is evil and I was completely wrong about him" they instead goes with this idea of "Sasuke is evil because someone brainwashed him to be evil." It was Sasuke's choice to go with Orochimaru. It was Sasuke's choice to go rogue. It was Sasuke's choice to go against everyone and everything, but instead of saying "Sasuke made his own choices" they have to "save him from himself."

I always hated this plot point that people push in any story because it is more insulting to the villain by patronizing them saying "Well, you're too stupid to know what is good for you and you have no mind of your own even if you make all decisions yourself." That doesn't work in the court of law and it shouldn't work anywhere else.
 

Thanks. I just think it would mean a lot more and in a way an almost kind of reward for their service. You don't die and cease to exist you just transform into something better. LIke a catipiller to a butterfly.

And that's something that I keep trying to tell ignorant Sasuke lovers - Sasuke may have had his mind screwed with by Itachi (twice), but Itachi never took away Sasuke's ability to choose (that was an absolute last resort with Shisui's Mangekyo). Everything Sasuke said and did were his own choice. He was never brainwashed or coerced into doing anything, and it's his own fault for not even bothering to look at things any differently due to his tunnel vision of vengeance.

Orochimaru knew didn't have to do anything like that after seeing the type of person Sasuke was. All he had to do was promise him power to kill Itachi and Sasuke would eventually come running to him of his own will even though he was more than capable of simply kidnapping Sasuke from the Forest of Death to take him anyway, then just imprison him for three years until it was time to switch bodies.

Same with Obito - he really did have to force Sasuke to do anything. Just a some carefully chosen words and Sasuke goes running to do things himself.


2e5.gif


#46330 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 09:05 PM

I’m what you will become in the future, I’m only more advanced. Everything you’re posting, is leading you to become me. I’m you from the future. So I suggest you just shut the kitten up, and stop posting dumb kitten. I am here to warn you so you won’t become who I am now. You from the future.

 

:lmao:


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Behold! Akame ga Kill's True Canon Pairing!


#46331 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 09:55 PM

I have always loved this part in Doctor who shows more love that what NH and SS shall never have.

 



#46332 ultranx

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:04 PM

I have always loved this part in Doctor who shows more love that what NH and SS shall never have.

 

I hated that episode, will forever miss those two, were my favorites of his companions, hated watching em die


Edited by ultranx, 24 October 2017 - 10:05 PM.

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#46333 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:37 PM

It is a stupid reason to take someone's life. Usually, when you do go this route, you have the hero become corrupted and have a new idea that killing is the new age of justice and protection. Look at some of the Superman alternate stories when Superman got pushed to kill. In every single one of those stories, despite Superman still being somewhat a good guy in a way, he kills because he feels it was a means to hold up justice and in a way it does make sense. Joker was a bad guy who kept killing over and over again...so they kill him to prevent more lives to be taken.
However, what starts out as somewhat a sensible means turns into killing anyobody for even minor offenses because they become so radical with the ideal of their justice that they feel any threat...big or small...is too great of threat to the establishment and just kill, kill, kill in the name of it.
Killing should be a last resort. Not for the sake of saving the person doing the killing, but saving everyone else that this person threatens. Still, what pisses me off the most is how Sakura and Naruto knows how evil he is and instead of saying "Sasuke is evil and I was completely wrong about him" they instead goes with this idea of "Sasuke is evil because someone brainwashed him to be evil." It was Sasuke's choice to go with Orochimaru. It was Sasuke's choice to go rogue. It was Sasuke's choice to go against everyone and everything, but instead of saying "Sasuke made his own choices" they have to "save him from himself."
I always hated this plot point that people push in any story because it is more insulting to the villain by patronizing them saying "Well, you're too stupid to know what is good for you and you have no mind of your own even if you make all decisions yourself." That doesn't work in the court of law and it shouldn't work anywhere else.
 

Thanks. I just think it would mean a lot more and in a way an almost kind of reward for their service. You don't die and cease to exist you just transform into something better. LIke a catipiller to a butterfly.

Superman at earth's end anyone for him killing, I mean injustice made the killing thing better and more interesting.

#46334 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 11:12 PM

I hated that episode, will forever miss those two, were my favorites of his companions, hated watching em die

Oh true was sad but shows how good they were as they are a better married couple then NH and SS both Amy and Rory loved each other this is what love is, well one of many not what NH or SS is, and the best part is you see the anger in the Doctors eyes as he looks at the Weeping Angel.



#46335 DrK

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 12:45 AM

About the Sakura's attempt to kill Sasuke again. I think Kishimoto probably, in addition to wanting to keep pairing wars going, thought it would make her look cruel to Sasuke(lol) if she's trying to kill him solely to reduce Naruto's burden. So he added another reason to do it. It makes no sense whatsoever that killing him out of love was her main or even only motivation considering this attempt was motivated by some kitten Sai said to her about Naruto. There is no way that this revelation about the burden of Naruto would suddenly convince her that Sasuke is now more evil than he used to be last time she thought about him. And this idea is supported by the fact that that motivation is NEVER used again in the story for anyone. Cue Shikamaru warning everyone that if Sasuke is killed, Konoha will have to start a brutal war with the other four nations to assuage the hurt feelings of Sakura and Ino. What a genius.


Edited by DrK, 25 October 2017 - 12:46 AM.


#46336 Khaleesi

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 01:28 AM

Off-topic

 

Guys, by any chance do you have a fav director not so well- known in the mainstream media that you are proud to know about? If you have more than one, that's fine too! I'm making an experiment :^)


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#46337 DrK

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 06:34 AM

Thanks. I just think it would mean a lot more and in a way an almost kind of reward for their service. You don't die and cease to exist you just transform into something better. LIke a catipiller to a butterfly.

James S Cassidy: I decided to write your idea as a side story

 

https://www.fanficti...eaven-and-Earth

 

When hugging her at the end Naruto smiles like Kushina did:

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#46338 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 12:02 PM

James S Cassidy: I decided to write your idea as a side story

 

https://www.fanficti...eaven-and-Earth

 

When hugging her at the end Naruto smiles like Kushina did:

I have just read it and damn its good man very good I just wish Boruto is killed next I mean I think he would find out what is sister is trying and killed by both the true versions of Naruto and Sakura.



#46339 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 02:13 PM

I am working on new NaruSaku stories as well which they always end up together because that is what the manga was going to end before NH fans wanted Hinata to be, lol I still get bashed and death messages by them saying Hinata is more worthy, but I just pay them no attaention they can act like little children.

 

I am planning to do a Kampfer Naruto crossover lol.



#46340 NarutoUzumaki01

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 02:31 PM

I am working on new NaruSaku stories as well which they always end up together because that is what the manga was going to end before NH fans wanted Hinata to be, lol I still get bashed and death messages by them saying Hinata is more worthy, but I just pay them no attaention they can act like little children.

 

I am planning to do a Kampfer Naruto crossover lol.

NH fandom in it's glory.






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