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The Great NaruSaku Debate Thread!


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#4601 catsi563

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 11:04 PM

QUOTE
Yeah, the word lie isn't used throughout the whole conversation, but it being insinuated that Sakura wasn't being honest was.


Incorrect the insinuation was that she wasnt being honest with herself not that she was being dishonest with Naruto.

QUOTE
No, he commented on Sakura's confession as well, stating that she confessed simply to ease Naruto's burdens and that she knew that Naruto would hate her after she killed Sasuke. To add, we have Sai referring to Sasuke as the one she loves


Incorrect again. Sai did not state her cofession was soley to ease his burden. he even states on the enxt page that she was thinking of his feelings.

QUOTE
He did. What else do you think him telling Sakura that "he is skeptical that she'd come all that way just to say something like that" means?


and note that all he did was find it odd, But he never called it a lie.

QUOTE
That's just it though; this isn't a fact. Naruto flat out said that he was saving Sasuke for himself.


and we have a perfect streak of wrong.

first off it is a fact that every action that Naruto and Sakura have taken In regards to each other has almsot always been selfess. they have almost never done anything towards the other that ahd a selfish tone to it.

and what Naruto stated was that he wanted to help Sasuke because he understood better why Sasuke was doing what ie did. He did not state he was doing it for himself.
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#4602 Kenny-kun

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 11:04 PM

QUOTE (firegirl @ Mar 20 2010, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
umm well lets see does her actions in the latest chapters speak of Sakura loving Sasuke
Not at all. In fact, it doesn't really speak of anything pairing related.

QUOTE
what Sai said was a COMPLETE speculation
Ha ha. Could be. That said, I wouldn't put too much doubt on Sai's testimony considering he was the one to say that Naruto loves Sakura. NH/SS shippers generally like to say that Sai was speculating about that and that we don't know how Naruto feels after Hinata's confession.

I say we wait and see if there's anything more to it, before dismissing his words and calling him an unreliable narrator since that doesn't get us anywhere.

#4603 catsi563

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 11:07 PM

QUOTE
Ha ha. Could be. That said, I wouldn't put too much doubt on Sai's testimony considering he was the one to say that Naruto loves Sakura. NH/SS shippers generally like to say that Sai was speculating about that and that we don't know how Naruto feels after Hinata's confession.

I say we wait and see if there's anything more to it, before dismissing his words and calling him an unreliable narrator since that doesn't get us anywhere.


In this I agree Sais comments may be specualtion but i wont dismiss them out of hand.

hell Yamatos comments were dismissed by Anti NS fans and still are to this day for the same reasons.
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#4604 firegirl

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 11:12 PM

well difference between Sais specualtion of naruto and sakura love is this

naruto did say how could he if he cant keep his promises

when sai said did u confess???

sakura on the other didnt say anyting about sasuke...also again how can sai know she loves him..if he never saw the bond between them in the fist place...the only bonds he knows to an existent is sasuke naruto bond and the naruto sakura bond...he has never seen the sasuke sakura bond..has he?

the only info sai got of sakura loving sasuke is well naruto.


oh hinata confession he seemed to forget about that or just didn't care...he had chances to confront her u know like tell her why did u go i in front of me in the fight...or had thoughts about it though these chapters..i see nothing about hinata in this whole ark..i also think her role is done in chapter 450.

Edited by firegirl, 20 March 2010 - 11:16 PM.


#4605 Kenny-kun

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 11:25 PM

QUOTE (catsi563 @ Mar 20 2010, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Incorrect the insinuation was that she wasnt being honest with herself not that she was being dishonest with Naruto.


Isn't that the same thing? She is being dishonest with herself through being dishonest to Naruto?


QUOTE
Incorrect again. Sai did not state her cofession was soley to ease his burden. he even states on the enxt page that she was thinking of his feelings.


Thinking of his feelings = Easing his burden.


QUOTE
and note that all he did was find it odd, But he never called it a lie.


He wouldn't find it odd unless he thought she wasn't being honest.

Remember: The previous chapter ended with him accusing her of being dishonest. When Sakura demanded to know why he thought this, this was his reason.


QUOTE
and we have a perfect streak of right.
I agree.

QUOTE
first off it is a fact that every action that Naruto and Sakura have taken In regards to each other has almsot always been selfess. they have almost never done anything towards the other that ahd a selfish tone to it.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/459/05/

Even when Naruto was saving Sasuke while being concerned with his promise to Sakura, it's still noted that he is also doing it for himself, based on Shizune's comment.

Frankly, I don't see what's the big deal with Naruto acting in regards to Sakura while also acting in regards himself. This doesn't contradict any of established themes in the series and is perfectly an acceptable part of human nature.

QUOTE
and what Naruto stated was that he wanted to help Sasuke because he understood better why Sasuke was doing what ie did. He did not state he was doing it for himself.


Yeah, I confused his comment with Shizune's. It's still confirmed that he is doing it for himself though.



AND We'll call that my stopping point for the time being


I'll be back to continue debating with you all either later this evening or tomorrow.

Edited by Kenny-kun, 20 March 2010 - 11:31 PM.


#4606 Miss Soupy

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 11:25 PM

QUOTE (Kenny-kun @ Mar 20 2010, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As long as we're merely looking at things in terms of what's possible, I don't have a problem with it.

Well, since the pairing isn't canon, I'm not sure what else you would expect. Manifestos are written to show why a pairing is followed, in a way. It offers the chance to peer into the minds of those supporting it to understand what they like about it. It is not there to rub in opposing fandoms faces or force you to believe a pairings canon-ness. But, even more so, it is for the fans of that pairing, because as fans we like re-reading interactions that moved us, and even realizing something we might not have noticed the first time reading through the manga.

QUOTE
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/310/06/

You are referring to this scene, no? Sai and Yamato also helped, hence Naruto saying "Thanks Guys." Don't get me wrong; they cheered him up. It's just that this is quite a bit different than saying that Sakura and Naruto mutually rely on one another as a source of strength. To add to the contentions which I've already offered, i you'll refer to chapter 457, Naruto makes it clear that it is THEM who are all relying on Naruto too much.I wouldn't use the word "deals." I'd say he acknowledges things which are quite deep (well, at least deep for this manga). A good example of this is the subplot regarding the "chain of hatred" in the world. Naruto wants to deal with this problem. Although we could potentially have gotten the opportunity to explore the essence of human nature and what kind of changes it will take to insure that humans manage to overcome their own nature, Naruto simply sweeps this subplot's potential under the rug by having Naruto say " I will believe in what Jiraiya believed in."

Yes, that scene. Sakura and Naruto do rely on each other mutually, but they do not solely rely on each other. I wouldn't agree with someone who said only Sakura can offer Naruto support. That's not true, Naruto gains support from many people, like you said. However, I do have a problem with people who say Naruto gains no support from Sakura, specifically.

Actually, the reason why hatred occurs is dealt with. We know why Sasuke feels the way he does, we also know that Naruto also reached a point where he could have become like Sasuke. This is reason for Naruto to want to fight the chain of hatred, because he has felt it before. That is not just going along with a guy he respects, but instead choosing a path based on his own experiences.

QUOTE
Now this really isn't a bad answer when taking into consideration the target audience, but it does let us know that Kishimoto has no intention of actually dealing with the issue of human conflict. Instead, all Naruto is probably going to do in the end is give a bold speech, wack Madara/Kabuto/Sasuke with the rasengan a couple of times and wave a magic wand to bring about world peace.

So the ending will become a Harry Potter crossover?! wow.png

QUOTE
Unsuprisingly, I do not agree with you. In the context we are talking about, love does equal acknowledgment. By loving Sakura, Naruto is content with who Sakura is (heck, not just content, but overjoyed). Knowing this, Sakura has no reason to suspect that Naruto doesn't acknowledge her. Therefore, this merely boils down to what she thinks; she thinks Naruto is wrong; she thinks Naruto is wrong to be content with who she is at this point in time.

All Sakura knows is that he loves her. She also recognizes that he goes out of his way to hide his intentions due to worry. What does that say about his expectations for Sakura? It isn't hard to see why she might feel she wasn't good enough, especially when Naruto isn't honest with her. In turn Sakura also isn't honest with him.

QUOTE
Using Sasuke as an example actually hurts your argument. She doubted herself because he wouldn't acknowledge her (as you say, she felt unworthy of him due to him putting her down). Do you think she'd possess the same feelings if she were to have found out that Sasuke loved her? Of course not.

You said her problem is her self-doubt, correct? Not sure how that differs from what I am saying (worrying that she isn't worthy/good enough). Not being good enough has been her problem since she first met Ino, before Sasuke. It's Sakura's largest flaw. Er, I guess I don't understand what you don't agree with.

QUOTE
Even so, that still doesn't change the fact that there was nothing romantic about the scene in questiion.

I didn't say there was...

QUOTE
1) Eh, it's not that simple. Keep in mind that Team Hawk was created in spite of Kishi's actual wishes. Fans wanted to see Sasuke get a team, Kishi's staff saw this and then insisted that Kishimoto create team hawk. Authors are swayed by the public all the time. After all, it's the fans authors are attempting to appease in writing the manga in the first place.

As for NaruSasu, that would piss off the fans of the other pairings. In order to piss no one off, leaving the ending up to interpretation is the best move to make.

2) If it isn't important, it doesn't necessarily deserve anything. As for admitting that he wished to make one of the pairings happen in the end, that's different from saying he WILL make one of the pairings happen in the end.Not a chance.

1) At the same time, authors are determined to, as Kubo put, 'write what they want even if they don't get it' (or at least he twittered this sentiment) XD Some people like to claim the authors are powerless, others that they do whatever they want to. I would believe something in the middle. However, when it comes to the end, which Kishimoto has known how it will play out for awhile now, I think he will do what he wants.

2) While he could always change his mind, he basically said he planned to make at least one of the 3 big pairings happen. If you don't trust him, that's up to you, but most likely this goes along with his already planned ending anyways. The public can just get over it XD
QUOTE
I liked it when Naruto was determined to break every bone in Sasuke's body AND bring him back alive. wink.gif

To me it wasn't a realistic plan, so I guess I prefer his current part realistic but extremely confident mindset.

QUOTE
Didn't stop Kakashi. Not to mention standing up to Naruto, even in a moment like this would be some serious development in character.

Kakashi didn't try very hard. Sakura doing as much as he wouldn't have counted for much. And Kakashi is doing so because he is their leader and feels it is his responsibility. Sakura wanted to make it her responsibility because she loved him, but she already failed. Naruto also loves him, but he could confidently make up his mind and has made it obvious only he can handle the situation. Unfortunately, Sakura just wasn't cut out for it :/ (curse you kishi for setting her up for Naruto to act more amazing!!)

QUOTE
1) He told Sasuke to fight him with ALL of his hatred.
2) He told Sasuke that if the both of them were to fight at full power, they'd both die.

Put 1 and 2 together and what do you get?

1) Because he is the only one who can take it all, and the only one who could remove it all.
2) If Sasuke truly cannot be saved, then they will both die. That is a big IF because if there is any glimmer of hesitation, Naruto can save him. Kishimoto didn't make Sakura have renewed hope for no reason XD If the statement truly was, when we fight we both die, no other way around it, then she wouldn't have felt that 'happy ending' to be a reachable thing once again.

#4607 ShippudenGirl

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 11:28 PM

And I also think her role is done.(Hinata's)

You remember what Naruto said about admitting his feelings? Something like "... How can I? If I can't even keep my promises" and Sakura doesn't want your promise, she wants you to be safe pictureem0.gif I still think "love" *pouts* NS for the win! 111189.gif

Anywho. Anything interesting to debate against; referring to SS or NH?

I just realized how alive this thread is today wow.png

Edited by ShippudenGirl, 20 March 2010 - 11:36 PM.


#4608 catsi563

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 11:35 PM

QUOTE
Isn't that the same thing? She is being dishonest with herself through being dishonest to Naruto?


Incorrect again. One does not entail the other.

QUOTE
Thinking of his feelings = Easing his burden.


Inncorrect again. she wanted to ease his burden yes, and was thinking of his feelings as well, but you dont get to make a circular argument out of it to try and disprove it.

QUOTE
He wouldn't find it odd unless he thought she wasn't being honest.

Remember: The previous chapter ended with him accusing her of being dishonest. When Sakura demanded to know why he thought this, this was his reason.


Wrong again. He didnt find it odd because he felt it was dishonest. He felt she was hiding something and Sai revealed that what she was hiding was the rookies decision and nothing else.

QUOTE
and we have a perfect streak of right.


now your just being childish

and coincedently wrong again

QUOTE
Even when Naruto was saving Sasuke while being concerned with his promise to Sakura, it's still noted that he is also doing it for himself, based on Shizune's comment.

Frankly, I don't see what's the big deal with Naruto acting in regards to Sakura while also acting in regards himself. This doesn't contradict any of established themes in the series and is perfectly an acceptable part of human nature


Now funny enough here I dont disagree. As it was noted that Naruto is trying to save Sasuke just as much for himself and the bond he shared as he is for Sakura.

But that still does not render the argument invalid or incorrect. again almsot every action taken towards each other has always been a selfless one or with selfess intentions.

QUOTE
Yeah, I confused his comment with Shizune's. It's still confirmed that he is doing it for himself though


Ahh got you again. he is not doing that for himself.

he is doing it for Sasuke. thats what he spoke about.

Edited by catsi563, 20 March 2010 - 11:37 PM.

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#4609 Kenny-kun

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 11:37 PM

Before I go though . . .

QUOTE (ShippudenGirl @ Mar 20 2010, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anywho. Anything interesting to debate against; referring to SS or NH?
I consider SS and NH to be fail pairings. I'd say that either NaruSaku gets confirmed or we get an ambigious pairing ending. Anything else would be downright stupid when looking at the series as a whole.

And that's all I have to say for now. Peace. cool.gif

#4610 ShippudenGirl

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 11:40 PM

I wonder what would happen if Naruto was about to fight Sasuke but then Sakura says "Would you choose to die with him then live with me?" or something like that. I can image that happening, I wonder what Naruto would say.

#4611 Gravenimage

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 11:53 PM

QUOTE (ShippudenGirl @ Mar 20 2010, 04:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wonder what would happen if Naruto was about to fight Sasuke but then Sakura says "Would you choose to die with him then live with me?" or something like that. I can image that happening, I wonder what Naruto would say.


I can see that happening but before Naruto fights Sasuke. I can see Sakura pouring her heart making a more emotional confession from 469 and Naruto smiling at her giving her a hug before he promises that he will return to her alive and well making it another promise of the life time. biggrin.gif

Edited by Gravenimage, 20 March 2010 - 11:53 PM.

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#4612 ShippudenGirl

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 11:56 PM

QUOTE (Gravenimage @ Mar 21 2010, 12:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can see that happening but before Naruto fights Sasuke. I can see Sakura pouring her heart making a more emotional confession from 469 and Naruto smiling at her giving her a hug before he promises that he will return to her alive and well making it another promise of the life time. biggrin.gif


As much as I'd love that, Naruto stated (WITH) Sakura there, he and Sasuke both would die, but I think it's a bluff, care for me to explain? fu.png

#4613 Gravenimage

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 11:58 PM

QUOTE (ShippudenGirl @ Mar 20 2010, 04:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As much as I'd love that, Naruto stated (WITH) Sakura there, he and Sasuke both would die, but I think it's a bluff, care for me to explain? fu.png


He still has to become Hokage.
He also has to find a way to bring peace to the world.

How are those for reasons for Naruto to stay alive? wink.gif
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#4614 ShippudenGirl

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 12:11 AM

Yes, Naruto is destined to surpass Minato and Jiraiya. There's a problem though. As long as Madara is "alive"(?) and Sasuke is, there can truely be no peace. What about all the other tailed-demons? What'll happen to them if Madara is defeated?
What if Naruto became Hokage and died as one?

The only ways Naruto could live:

•Madara is destroyed/killed.

•Sasuke is redeemed. [Naruto can't defeat him (?) he stated they'd both die if they fight]

•There is no more "Ninja System" as Minato stated, as long as there are Ninja there is War, as long as there is deaths there is no peace. How'd Naruto manage that?

If Naruto died with Sasuke/Madara:

•I'd cry

•The enemies of Konoha are destroyed restoring peace to the villages

•No NS

Now, I feel as if Naruto is bluffing. Naruto stated that he's done chasing Sasuke, but told him If he ever attacked Konoha, they would die. So, if Sasuke never attacks/gets eyes implanted then Naruto could live happily ever-after(?)

Eh, I'll add more later.

Edited by ShippudenGirl, 21 March 2010 - 12:12 AM.


#4615 Miss Soupy

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 12:20 AM

I don't think Naruto is bluffing. He seems to honestly believe in what he is saying. However, like I was explaining to Kenny-kun, I don't think Naruto was saying he, without a doubt, expects to die if they fought. What Naruto seemed to be saying is, when they fight, if Sasuke has any glimmer of hope towards changing, he will hold back and Naruto will be able to save him. Naruto will be fighting fully because he will have to expect that of Sasuke. But I'm pretty sure something will happen and Sasuke at some point will hold back, or Naruto will see a chance to get through to him. Honestly, what Itachi said before about Sasuke being a blank canvas is kinda true. Sasuke is so easily influenced by anything...in some ways he is a major tool XD;; He just falls right into Madara's plan, guh.

#4616 ShippudenGirl

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 12:28 AM

Ah, let's not forget Itachi's crow-down-throat fu.png

I bet that'd play a big part when they battle (I saw "when" because we all know it's inevitable)

#4617 Dreamer

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 12:50 AM

It's obvious Sakura will give and show Naruto a reasson to live. narusaku.gif

Edited by Uzumakikage, 21 March 2010 - 12:50 AM.


#4618 Gravenimage

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 12:55 AM

QUOTE (Uzumakikage @ Mar 20 2010, 04:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's obvious Sakura will give and show Naruto a reasson to live. narusaku.gif


Yup that what's I believe Sakura will do. She will show him how strong her love for him really is, having a life with her will be the perfect reason for Naruto to live. After all if he really does love Sakura truly then he will take the chance when she lays her heart on the line for him.

Edited by Gravenimage, 21 March 2010 - 12:59 AM.

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#4619 Miss Soupy

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 01:01 AM

I kinda wonder how any of the romances can play out currently, what with Naruto resigning himself (somewhat). How will NH develop now? I'm curious as to what that pairing thinks can happen for them. NS has a slightly better chance because the most development needed happens to be on Sakura's side, and she hasn't made any promises to save someone or die trying.

#4620 Dreamer

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 01:07 AM

QUOTE (Miss Soupy @ Mar 20 2010, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I kinda wonder how any of the romances can play out currently, what with Naruto resigning himself (somewhat). How will NH develop now? I'm curious as to what that pairing thinks can happen for them. NS has a slightly better chance because the most development needed happens to be on Sakura's side, and she hasn't made any promises to save someone or die trying.


I guess this is the part were we sit back and be amazed (hopefully) on how Kishi will tie things together, because i seriously don't see this manga lasting no more than 2 years if that. happy.gif




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