

The Great NaruSaku Debate Thread!
#4581
Posted 20 March 2010 - 06:41 PM


#4582
Posted 20 March 2010 - 07:02 PM
Usually male authors don't perceive their female characters as good as the males and in fact they sometimes don't know what to do with them so the women end up on the sidelines. If you look to DBZ, Yuyu Hasksho, & even some American & British novels have this complex. Very few male authors can overcome this issue and provide damn good female characters who make an difference and is a force to be reckon with like Inuyasha for example.
Female authors don't have problem as you see they are able to have stand up male M.C. with an damn good female lead and vice versa. Harry Potter is good example as of that.
Trust me guys it up to the writer but also whom writing. If Kishi was a girl, Sakura would have done so much more and would be equal scale of importance as Naruto & Sasuke. Also we would have stronger kunochi who will play a better role and more so impact onto Naruto & the ninja world.
Let light be our guide towards victory
Whenever there's despair there's a darkness, whenever there's hope there's a light and it's up to us to bring in that light.
#4583
Posted 20 March 2010 - 07:28 PM
I do think he'll try to make Sakura a better character unless he goes back on his promise.

#4584
Posted 20 March 2010 - 09:42 PM
This is a debate thread. Knock yourself out. The way I see it: If I'm wrong, you can help me out; If you're wrong, I can help you out.
Well in that case, arguing in favor of it being a good POTENTIAL match is fine; nothing wrong with that. Though as for being a DEVELOPING romance on the other hand, that's exactly what I was countering in my initial post. In spite of each of the moments they have shared and we have jumped for joy over throughout this manga, there has never been anything to even remotely suggest that their relationship as being a DEVELOPING romance. A developing friendship? Sure. But a developing romance simply has no support as of yet (likely based on the reasons I've already stated). If you feel otherwise, then by all means, provide evidence.
In the context you're putting it though, that is saying that their relationship is becoming romantic, even if only indirectly.
I'm gonna have to disagree. There are a great deal of fans interested in the various potential romances. Not just in Naruto, but in series as meager as Fire Emblem (where the creator ended up officiating a yaoi pairing on the basis of fan craze). I don't base my knowledge of the fanbase merely on what I've seen or read up on in America. If the interest in pairings were as meager as you're implying, there'd be no point to "keeping fans guessing" in terms of which pairing would happen (hence nods to NaruSaku, NaruHina or SasuSaku). This is something which probably would have been resolved a long time ago. Not to mention him getting asked who was going to end up with who wouldn't be a common fan question.
lol. To be honest, I agree that the nature of Naruto and Sakura's relationship has detailed in many scenes throughout the manga. Unfortunately, being that this is a debate and being that I detect a flaw in your reasoning, I'm going to have to produce a counter argument
First, you've agreed that the romance isn't crucial to the plot. Meaning that even if we agree that the all the scenes you are referring to are meant to indicate romance, it doesn't matter as to whether or not there is a culminating point in the plot which resolves all of these various scenes in the form of the initiation of a romantic relationship.
Second, there are other animes/manga which have taken the time to throw all sorts of nods that there were some level of infatuation between certain characters (Code Geass being a GREAT example), yet in the end, nothing got resolved due to a frustrating mishap which I shall not discuss in this thread. I will tell you one thing though: It is very common for shounen mangaka to hint the possibility of romance between characters, only for this to never get resolved in the form of a open ended ending. Do not surprised if Kishimoto decides to do this.
I wouldn't call it a plot thread. At best, a sub plot. As I've already indicated though, it doesn't need to be resolved through romance. Believe or not, one could even call Sakura coming to the realization to be passive and believe in Naruto as being the resolution (a crappy resolution I know, but a resolution nevertheless)..
Playing devil's advocate: The hug was just another nod from the author towards the pairing; no different than the nods he has given to other pairings. The confession was just a plot device used to get Naruto to establish WHY he wants to save Sasuke (which, kind of hurt NaruSaku) as well as ultimately getting him to show up and fight Sasuke in chapter 484.
You may say what you like regarding my intentions. I don't agree with your labeling of me, but it is inconsequential to this discussion.

I was kidding. She does mean something to him, but not what she means to many others. As of now, Kishi believes her character has taken a step in the right direction and is probably patting himself on the back about it what just occured. It's his manga; there's nothing wrong with him believing that.
And I have said she already knows she has it.
If that's like already owning a PS3 and wanting a PS3, then yes, I agree.
Love = acknowledge.
Both Naruto and Sai suggest she was lying. Sai even says that Sakura was just trying to ease his pain.
Perhaps if this kunoichi schtik fails Sakura, she should put it all into the acting market.

lol, but seriously, Sai has already cleared this up. Unless we find out that Sai was lying or misinformed, we have no reason to believe that Sakura was telling the truth.
Given that Kishi created the data book serves to clarify on things which are unknown/open-ended in the manga, I do to an extent.
I remember using this as an argument against NaruHina shippers in the past. Even then, I saw a heck of a lot of problems with using this chapter as evidence of my position and did my best to insure that the discussion never went to a unfavorable route.
There are a couple of problems with your assertions.
1) She never says "She has moved over Sasuke and she has chosen you" or anything to suggest this.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/474/08/ - SAI: She wants to save him from a life of evil because she loves him
In fact, the above statement suggest the opposite. She wishes to kill Sasuke because she loves him.
When added by . . .
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/474/08/ - SAI: And I think she is prepared to do whatever it takes, even if it means killing THE ONE she loves.
We are to conclude that she hasn't moved nor has she chosen Naruto over Sasuke.
2) The only thing she is doing for Naruto's sake is easing his burden
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/474/09/ - That's her way of making up for trying to saddle you with a lifelong burden.
This is an additional benefit to her saving Sasuke.
Sai makes it clear that she loves one person and also makes it clear that she "confessed" to Naruto make his pain easier rather than telling him the truth. The latter part of this statement is confirmed here: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/474/04/ (notice that the truth and her confession are differentiated).
Edited by Kenny-kun, 20 March 2010 - 10:08 PM.
#4585
Posted 20 March 2010 - 09:46 PM
PREVIOUS POST CONT (sorry for the double posts, but it wouldn't let me make a posts with that many quote tags for some reason):
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/470/01/
Naruto: It's just weird. You came all this way just to tell me something like that (referring to the confession).
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/470/03/
Naruto: That just sounds like an excuse. I think I know you better than that (again, referring to the confession).
No one but him and Sai. Sai even insinuates that she only loves one person.
The information from both comes from Kishimoto though.
How so?
To-May-to , To-Mah-to.
You haven't. I understand where you're coming from better than you think. Even still, I can't agree with your rendering of my thought process. As much as I'd like to engage myself in a conversation concerning my intentions, I feel it likely that some of the things I'd say will be taken as offensive (which is not my intention) and that such discussion is unnecessary. Perhaps if you ever grow to understand me better than you do now, I'll entertain such discussion. Certainly not today though.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/310/06/
You are referring to this scene, no? Sai and Yamato also helped, hence Naruto saying "Thanks Guys." Don't get me wrong; they cheered him up. It's just that this is quite a bit different than saying that Sakura and Naruto mutually rely on one another as a source of strength. To add to the contentions which I've already offered, i you'll refer to chapter 457, Naruto makes it clear that it is THEM who are all relying on Naruto too much.
Now this really isn't a bad answer when taking into consideration the target audience, but it does let us know that Kishimoto has no intention of actually dealing with the issue of human conflict. Instead, all Naruto is probably going to do in the end is give a bold speech, wack Madara/Kabuto/Sasuke with the rasengan a couple of times and wave a magic wand to bring about world peace.
Using Sasuke as an example actually hurts your argument. She doubted herself because he wouldn't acknowledge her (as you say, she felt unworthy of him due to him putting her down). Do you think she'd possess the same feelings if she were to have found out that Sasuke loved her? Of course not.
2) Romance isn't crucial, but it is involved enough to deserve a clear ending. He admitted he wished to make one of the pairings happen in the end.
1) Eh, it's not that simple. Keep in mind that Team Hawk was created in spite of Kishi's actual wishes. Fans wanted to see Sasuke get a team, Kishi's staff saw this and then insisted that Kishimoto create team hawk. Authors are swayed by the public all the time. After all, it's the fans authors are attempting to appease in writing the manga in the first place.
As for NaruSasu, that would piss off the fans of the other pairings. In order to piss no one off, leaving the ending up to interpretation is the best move to make.
2) If it isn't important, it doesn't necessarily deserve anything. As for admitting that he wished to make one of the pairings happen in the end, that's different from saying he WILL make one of the pairings happen in the end.
I liked it when Naruto was determined to break every bone in Sasuke's body AND bring him back alive.

1) He told Sasuke to fight him with ALL of his hatred.
2) He told Sasuke that if the both of them were to fight at full power, they'd both die.
Put 1 and 2 together and what do you get?
Edited by Kenny-kun, 20 March 2010 - 09:53 PM.
#4586
Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:01 PM
Didn't Kishimoto say he was gonna make one pairing canon? Who's the one that has the most development? NH, SS, or NS? I'm sure we all know or we wouldn't be here.

#4587
Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:06 PM
miss soupy is right LOVE DOES NOT EQUAL ACKNOWLEDGMENT
love -= trust, compassion, sympathies, understanding each other an , and wanting the other partner happy..its part acknowledgment but most of what i said is what love EQUALS TOO..again i agree that Naruto. Naruto and Sakura needs to grow up, but i think Sakura changed alot in this ark..she learn her lesson in this chapter..she is willing to still believe in the person she trust the most, she knows her flaws..i have completely faith Sakura will become stronger after this ark..she has a very strong determination even though she cant get up to their level she will still be able to help..she wants him to be acknowledge that she wants to get rid of his burdan..
love is complicated its not simple.
and i have a huge headache soo this might not make the best sense

Edited by firegirl, 20 March 2010 - 10:09 PM.
#4588
Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:12 PM
he was referring SOLEY to Sakuras comments on her feelings towards Sasuke. He never called her feleings towards him into question, and neither did Sai.
That is precisely what Mizura states in the manifesto several times in regards to Naruto and Sakura as a couple and why they are the most likely pairing or at leats have the best chance in that regard.
the fact that every action the two takes in one fashion or form is done for the other and almost never for themselves. They are the prime example of a compassionate love.
Edited by catsi563, 20 March 2010 - 10:15 PM.
..(^)> PENGUIN!!!!
C(...)D
..m.m
Training with a sannin 2 1/2 years
new pair of gloves 20 ryou
the look on your best friend, and former sensei's face's when you cause a small earth quake. Princeless
Catsis Fan Fiction
#4589
Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:25 PM

#4590
Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:34 PM
Must you debate about everything? Eh, whatever ^^
And I didn't state that YOU said it was no big deal, I just stated that some other pairing says it's bro/sis. Pff.
Sorry, can't keep up today, I'm not using my laptop and it's difficult to quote and type but eh.
Naruto/Sai never said the exact words "You don't love Naruto" and it wasn't implied as far as I could tell. They said she's lying about her feelings for Sasuke. I must say, your right that she still probably doesn't know how she feels. Only time will tell my friends *sigh*

#4591
Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:40 PM
Must you debate about everything?

Sai: ". . . killing the one she loves."
Personally, I think Sai has got it wrong, but I base this merely on my own intuition. Evidence wise, I cannot deny what he is saying.

Edited by Kenny-kun, 20 March 2010 - 10:45 PM.
#4592
Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:40 PM
umm well lets see does her actions in the latest chapters speak of Sakura loving Sasuke......all i see is her trying to kill him but cant because he WAS connected to her by being her friend and teammate. same with Kakashi he couldn't kill him instead he was trying to reason with him..Naruto would never kill him. and out of all three Sakura wanted him dead right at the start of this ark.
what Sai said was a COMPLETE speculation he has never seen the bond of Sasuke and Sakura he only heard from a third party which is NARUTO WHO WAS STUCK IN THE PAST before team 7 picture in his mind shattered..also in the confession part Naruto only had flashbacks of past Sakura and beginning of part 2 Sakura..honestly would she really lie to some she cares the most about trusts the most..and would sacrifice everything just for the boy to be happy? it out of her character!!
actions speaks louder then words..and i look at her actions though these chapters Sakura only focus on one person...it wasn't Sasuke it was Naruto..she cared about his feelings yelled at Sasuke for calling Naruto an outsider telling him how much Naruto believes that he can still be their friend..she looked at Naruto sadly that he still does..it was before naruto speeh..after the speech about dying with Sasuke..she has seen JUST HOW DEEP NARUTO AND SASUKE bond truly is..she sees just how important it is for Naruto and understands why he is doing this lifting up her hope that maybe team 7 can finally have a happy ending and be in peace..but we don't know the rest of her thoughts of Naruto dieing with Sasuke..
Edited by firegirl, 20 March 2010 - 10:45 PM.
#4593
Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:43 PM

I'm hopeing we will gets more insights on Naruto's mother Kushina.

Edited by Uzumakikage, 20 March 2010 - 10:48 PM.
#4594
Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:43 PM
#4595
Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:44 PM
Yup that's what it seems to me lol, or perhaps they are thinking too much about this.

#4596
Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:47 PM
Edited by ShippudenGirl, 20 March 2010 - 10:48 PM.

#4597
Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:52 PM
Fixed

Edited by Uzumakikage, 20 March 2010 - 10:53 PM.
#4598
Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:53 PM
I know Shippu-chan but to me Kishi is too late. He has to finish what he started, if he started developing N/S earlier in the manga then he has to finish the manga making N/S canon. He can't just stopped and suddenly say I developed N/S for so long but now I don't want to develop the pairing anymore. I'm sorry but that would be retarded for him to develop one pairing for over 200 chapters and suddenly he stops the development and the pairing doesn't become canon. It's like telling the readers WTF, If Kishi does that he will screw up as a writer. Because if he didn't like the development of one pairing in particular after so long then why bother do the development in the first place? It's like changing the rules in the middle of a game.
#4599
Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:54 PM
I am an NS fan. Don't let me undermining the usual arguments in favor of the pairing fool you.
There are two reasons as to why I am doing this:
1) I like arguing.
2) If you've ever played a Phoenix Wright game, then I suppose you could say I'm like Miles Edgeworth. I feel that debating with my doubts as my stance can help me discover the truth.
#4600
Posted 20 March 2010 - 11:00 PM
There are two reasons as to why I am doing this:
1) I like arguing.
2) If you've ever played a Phoenix Wright game, then I suppose you could say I'm like Miles Edgeworth. I feel that debating with my doubts as my stance can help me discover the truth.
I see •.• Interesting. Though, this could be your downfall when all is proven thus, NS canon

@Graven-kun
Nice way of wording things xD... I'm sure Kishimoto is not in the business of making Manga to dissappoint. Dattebayo~

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