4869 replies to this topic

[gamerman_007]

I've been working on a anti-sasusaku rant/assay. Check it out and tell me what you think.

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

1) Both naruto and sakura get screwed.
-Naruto doesnt get sakura, the girl he has worked hard to get her to like him, while sasuke does and he didnt do much at all to win her love.
-Sakura would always feel inferior to sasuke, she would be behind him, instead of at his side. Sasuke would directly or indirectly make himself the head. Where else naruto and sakura would be equal in the house.


2) Sasuke has never had an interest in the opposite sex, his main goal was to kill itachi, he said once that his other goal was to resurrect his clan. He had a large female fanbase. But He never ever tried to work towards that goal. He pretty much has forgottten about it. And now, that goal has disappeared. That goal would be the only reason he would want to shack up with any female. Besides for sasusaku to happen,
sasuke would have to come back to konoha. (Cause the other way (sakura running away to him) would be to OOC for sakura.) He has no reason at all to return, he has thrown it all away for power. And even if they do bring him back, if he hasnt acheived his goal yet, he would be pissed at both. And would attempt to leave. Again. And if they bring him after he killed itachi (lol), he would be empty yes, naruto and sakura would attempt to fill this void. But this void was originally covered by revenge, nothing but it....at this time sakura would help sasuke, and sasuke would fall in love with her........possible? Probably...if sakura becomes more important to him then naruto.

3) Sasuke still gets whatever he wants without working for it. At this point, sakura's feelings toward sasuke are not clear, but its possible that there is some love still there. So if sasuke wanted sakura to be his
wife, i doubt she would refuse at this point in time. Naruto, OTOH, gets kittened over. He had to work for whatever he wanted. Naruto wanted recognition from konoha, to get it he has to work for it. He wants sakura's love, to get it he has to work for it. So if sasusaku happened, all naruto's hard work for sakura's love goes straight to hell. Sasuke though, didnt have to work a day in his life to get recognition or love. And what would be the lesson? "You can work hard, but you still may never get what you want" And "Those on a higher status then you, will get whatever they want, but will never have to work for it". DOes this sound like lessons kids should learn? (even though they are kinda true in real life)?

And a anti-naruhina rant i did on NMR

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

Reasons why I think naruhina is dead:

1) Hinata and naruto have only talked for less then 20 mins.

2) Hinata does not love naruto, and doesnt have any actual interest in dating him. In the databook scanlations, the line that goes from hinata to naruto, the kanji is for "admiration". This has been confirmed by many folks on NF. "Admiration" does not = "love".

3) Hinata has more important things to worry about. Remember her goal? To be accepted by the main house? Shackin' up with naruto will not help at all with this goal.

4) Hinata has no relevance to the main storyline. She was important for like 2 chapters then she disappeared. She is as important to the storyline as kiba is. Could she become important to the main storylines, sure. But how would she become important? Sakura already understands him, and will (try) to rescue him and save him. (She will (try) to rescue sasuke as well, so dont bring it up). So what will hinata do if she becomes important to the main storyline?

5) Naruto has better things to worry about. The akatsuki are after him, Sasuke needs to be rescued.

6) Even if (god forbid) sasusaku happened, naruto would still not notice hinata outside friendship. He will most likely stay a bachelor, or he if he was gonna hook up with a lady it would be one of these females:
-Ino, kinda like sakura, would be loser relationship, both lost love to rival ( ino lost sasuke to sakura, naruto lost sakura to sasuke) both would understand each other.
-Temari, brother is jinchuuriki, would understand pain of being one.
-Some new character kishi introduces.

And to finish, a dumb_ss post.

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

She's shy, he's outgoing; she's quiet, he's loud; she's classed, but he's a bit of a pig.

They are both determined, hardworkers, they never give up, they've felt the pain of lonliness. They share the same goal, purpose, and heart.

He is Yin, She is Yang. Opposite shades of appearance, but of the same shape and form.

In all of our lives, we must seek to complete ourselves where we lack.

And here's the link.

[DazeDreamer]

Uh that last theory can be used for NaruSaku too.

She's shy, he's outgoing; she's quiet, he's loud; she's classed, but he's a bit of a pig.

They are both determined, hardworkers, they never give up, they've felt the pain of lonliness. They share the same goal, purpose, and heart.

He is Yin, She is Yang. Opposite shades of appearance, but of the same shape and form.

In all of our lives, we must seek to complete ourselves where we lack.

Sakura
-smart
-polite
-mature
-behaved
-low chakra reserves

Naruto

-in everyday things he's and idiot (although he's extremely good in pressure and battles)
-very inpolite
-immature
-carefree/outgoing
-VERY high stamina/chakra

What they both have in common

-they're both pretty loud (Well Inner Sakura is and in Part 2 she's still quite loud)
-bad temper (lol )
-both want to be recognized (Sakura- someone strong, not a pitiful hinderence. Naruto- just someone. And the Hokage. Not a monster and/or Kyubbi)
-both loved someone who didn't love them back. (Well sort of...More in Sakura's case than Naruto's. )
-both have someone who loves them but they don't love them back


See! This is why it is called HEAVEN AND EARTH. What's there for Hinata huh? (No offense to Hinata fans)

[Random Nobody]

She's shy, he's outgoing; she's quiet, he's loud; she's classed, but he's a bit of a pig.

They are both determined, hardworkers, they never give up, they've felt the pain of lonliness. They share the same goal, purpose, and heart.

He is Yin, She is Yang. Opposite shades of appearance, but of the same shape and form.

In all of our lives, we must seek to complete ourselves where we lack.

Didn't Aethos already post something about this? Something about, oh i don't know, how Yin and Yang isn't about opposties attract. Just because the opposties attract quote doesn't work (conisdering the full quote is "Opposties attract but they don't mend well") doesn't mean you should talk philosphys from other countries and pretend like they mean it.

[Ani]

So...because Sakura obsessed over Sasuke and Naruto didn't obsess over Sakura shows Naruto doesn't love Sakura? No. It actually shows Naruto is more mature than Sakura and that he doesn't need to fangirl over her just to get her attention. And dont pair Naruto up with Hinata if he doesn't get Sakura. Thats just stupid.

[IchaIcha]

I'm a SasuSaku fan! Mind if I join the debate?

[Ani]

Sure. You can if you want. XD

[Danni]

So...because Sakura obsessed over Sasuke and Naruto didn't obsess over Sakura shows Naruto doesn't love Sakura? No. It actually shows Naruto is more mature than Sakura and that he doesn't need to fangirl over her just to get her attention. And dont pair Naruto up with Hinata if he doesn't get Sakura. Thats just stupid.

well naruto didnt have a obsessed w/ sakura he just had a crush w/ her.
sakura does really have a obsessed w/ sasuke anymore, I mean she use to before the time-skip.
AND I agree w/ you anime-chan, BUT ppl say that If naruto does get sakura, THEN he gonna role
over to hinata.

[Ani]

Which is stupid, because he wouldn't do that.

[Danni]

Right but ppl thinks that gonna happen, Like they allso say that IF sakura dies, NARUTO would go to hinata and forget about sakura.
BUt see naruto would NEVER do that, He would keep geting stronger and honor sakura, And becomes the hokage, But he would not just go to hinata and forget about sakura.

[MBKon]

I know that site. I'm a member there.
About the chapter cover, I was just saying you shouldnt take it so lightly. Just like all you NaruSaku-ers go "ZONG! OMGZZZ ITZ SOO OBVIOUZ SAKURA LOVEZZ NARUTO! YAMATO EVEN KNOWZZZZ11!1!11!!1" When the damn statement wasnt even friggen completed. Maybe it was love. Question is..what KIND? It could have been friendship for all we know. My friend made a whole rant on that.
That arguements defines the word overused and takes it to a new level. If NaruSaku is a friendship love, sister love... whatever, then Why can't NaruHina be? Why can't SasuSaku be? Oh and, we aren't the only ones that went crazy over a single statement you know. *points to the 'I like people like you scene* And *points to the 'I'll change the Hyuuga once i become the Hokage'* And there's that freaking chapter cover again! Then I suppose that we can start planning a wedding? A NaruSasu wedding to be exact. Forget it, you're just going to find an excuse and bring that cover into topic again. Let's drop the cover page, okay? Now to pick apart your essay.
As for Naruto liking Sakura, yeah he did in the beginning. But he really hasn't been talking a
bout her the way he use to. Sakura was mad that Sai had badmouthed Sasuke, that's a hint that she still has feelings for the Uchiha prodigy. And chapter 306? Mmmhmmm... As for the “date” thing in 311, haha, it's clear that Sakura and Naruto are just very close friends. She rejected him again but nicely. I now believe Naruto does that just to tease, and it's for comedy.
... Do you know that Naruto doesnt like Sakura? Dont give me the crap about him supporting SasuSaku, just try to counter the arguement without ruining Naruto's character. Naruto was mad at Sai for badmouthing Sasuke too, does that mean that the wedding i mentioned earlier, is actually gonna happen?
Psh... First off, you can't take Yamato seriously. He has only known them for 5 days. Also, he has no clue what Team 7's past was and Sakura's feelings for Sasuke. I think NaruSaku fans jumped to conclusions way too fast with this one. The biggest thing here was that his statement wasn't even completed.
NaruHina fans jumped fast at the 2 so called NaruHina hints . SasuSaku fans jumped at the so called 'Sasuke admits his love by saying thank you' to her. But we can't have anything? by the way, what do you think report books are for? He's an ANBU, he has to know things about his team. Maybe he doesnt know the whole story, but he at least knows that Sakura has/had a Crush on Sasuke, and that Naruto has a crush on her.
Kishi said adding romance was hard. Which brings up another point. I would find adding NaruSaku....EASY. Oh dear what could this mean? Come on, main guy x main girl, and they're all alone now with no Sasuke. So why hasn't it happened? Hmmm? Maybe it's not what Kishi intends.
Hmmm... Maybe... just maybe there are other things in their lives... things like... oh I dunno... Save Sasuke, stop Akatsuki, and stuff like that... naaaaaahhh, couldn't be.
Naruto KNOWS and ACCEPTED Sakura's feelings. That's why I don't understand why some NaruSaku-ers ignore that. It can be debated but come on you know it's true.
I know that. Every NaruSaku knows and accepts that. But, if you love a girl/guy that loves(using the term very loosely) another guy/girl, would you settle for a consolation prize... (which is the role most NaruHinas put her in) or would you try to get that girl/guy?
Did Naruto ever once say “I love you” to Sakura? Nope. Is his goal to be with Sakura? Nope. It's to become Hokage. So I see no reason for NaruSaku to happen. So why not NaruHina? Adding to that... In the beginning when Kakashi asked for Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke to tell him their goals, that can be looked at as a foreshadow. (ie - Naruto becoming Hokage, Sakura getting Sasuke, and Sasuke killing his bro and restoring his clan) I'm not saying that will happen, but it could be looked at as foreshadowing.
That was part 1. Where in the 3 hours that Sasuke appeared in part 2 does he say anything about reviving his clan? And there you go again. 'So why not NaruHina?' Why not NaruTem? Why not NaruIno? Why not NaruTen? I see no reason for NaruHina to happen either.
I know Naruto's goal is not to be with Hinata either, but it would at least help Hinata's character. Her theme is “If you believe in yourself, you can change yourself.” (Or along those lines) Who helped her change herself? Naruto.

And since Hinata's nindo is the same as Naruto's... and she vowed to get stronger, change herself, and do her best... SHE WILL. Again, foreshadow. I think she wanted to be accepted by Naruto but I'm not to sure if she stated it... I know she wanted him to notice her change though. So she definitely wants to change for him.
She wanted to be accepted by her FAMILY, she wants to change for her FAMILY, not Naruto. Naruto is just her object of admiration... and besides... he already accepted her... as a friend. Not a lover. Not a 'snugglebuddy'. A FRIEND.
Did Naruto ever once say “I love you” to Sakura? Nope. Is his goal to be with Sakura?
Did Sasuke ever say 'I love you' to Sakura? Did Naruto say that to Hinata? Nope. No His goal isnt that... It's a side quest.
To me, in the beginning it looked like Naruto just had a crush on Sakura which developed into deep friendship. Sakura's on Sasuke however, was more than a crush. Come on, she was willing to betray her own VILLAGE just to BE with him. And she knew what he was doing too. Some say "Why do those NaruHina and SasuSaku fans say that Naruto's feelings for Sakura was just a crush while Sakura's and Hinata's feelings for Sasuke/Naruto are real blah blah blah." - Well there's some of the reasons. Naruto didn't spend basically every second in part 1, obsessing over Sakura or delayering is so called 'love' for her. Heck I don't even REMEMBER him telling Sakura he LOVED her. He liked her because she was the same as him. Because they both seeked acknowledgment. And now he has it. That's all.
It was love... yes she loved him... loved a fake Sasuke that only existed in her dreams. Sakura was obsessing over Sasuke, i give you that. 220 chapters ago. I wont even bother to counter the rest. It's 3 AM here and I need my sleep. I'll continue tommorow.

My arguement to this page.
[url=http://www.fanfiction.net/fr/393348/8005/303853/1/#650118[/url]

[Nick Soapdish]

Heyas!

Just a quick reminder. Referring to other people or their posts generically as "good" is fine. People aren't going to get offended about a generic compliment. But not the reverse. Stick with criticizing their points, rather than simply labelling a post or poster (even from another board) as stupid. Instead, explain why you disagree with their points.

Thanks.

[IchaIcha]

Where do I start? Er... somebody start a topic and I'll continue from there

[Danni]

here one ppl say that naruto doesnt love sakura.
They say that naruto only thinks of her as a friend not a crush or lover.
then why does naruto say to sakura in the manga chapter that that if we can go she kakashi but as a date!
I think some ppl dont have there head srew on tight.
There that can be a topic to start w/.
Oh yah i freaking love the manga! ( start jumping up & down)

[Ani]

Well, besides Naruto wanting to go on dates with Sakura, his feelings for her are still somewhat vague. And we dont even know for sure how Sakura's feelings stand. The only couples that are really canon so far seem to be ShikaTema and AsuKur. And thats it. We'll have to wait and see what Kishi is planning for his manga next.

[Danni]

Well, besides Naruto wanting to go on dates with Sakura, his feelings for her are still somewhat vague. And we dont even know for sure how Sakura's feelings stand. The only couples that are really canon so far seem to be ShikaTema and AsuKur. And thats it. We'll have to wait and see what Kishi is planning for his manga next.

well if sakura didnt like naruto she would say no or saying I'M SORRY NARUTO.
BUT she didnt say that she just say, MAYBE WE CAN TRAIN together.

[MBKon]

I never said SasuSaku and NaruHina HAD to happen. They don't have to and neither does NaruSaku. I just listed ways NaruHina was possible. I never said it was 100%, cause I know it's not.

Hm did you know in the databook it doesnt say ANYTHING about Naruto's crush on Sakura? But it does talk about Sakura's crush on Sasuke. And who wrote the databook? Kishi did. So perhaps Kishi doesn't really think into Naruto's feelings much? ;D

I explained why I believe Naruto's feelings for Sakura aren't like Sakura's feeling for Sasuke. Kishi even said her feelings for Sasuke were genuine. Kishi also said the "NaruSaku date" WASN'T a date. [In an interview] No need to continue on that. I don't think Sasuke loved Sakura. To me the "Thank You" scene was that he didn't know how to respond to Sakura's confession. So he left her with a word of graditude. Lets look at the databook:

-The love that Sakura felt for him, was enough to fulfill his loneliness.
However, just as we'd expect, he couldn't give into those feelings.
(was a little liberal on the kotaeru part though, could also say "answer to those feelings", but the above translation fits more naturally)-

Kishi left it open minded. You know if Sasuke really couldnt give into those feelings, does that mean that he was forcing himself not to give in? So maybe perhaps he DID feel something for Sakura after all? I dunno.. Just a thought.

As for "I like people like you" - I'm not a NaruHinaTARD. I'm a NaruHinaFAN. There's a difference. But don't you just LOVE the fact you can't see Naruto's face when he says "I like people like you" D

"I always thought of you as a dark, shy, weirdo...But a person like you, I really like!" - Quoted from the manga. Again, this wasn't to show Naruto loves Hinata. It provided a base that may develop. Naruto realized what he thouht about Hinata previously was wrong. "I never knew Hinata was so incredible!"

"When you cheered for me, there was an impact on my heart." - Hinata said that [or along those lines] while talking about how she admires Naruto. However, 282:

"My feelings...What should I do?" Her heart was beating as well. "doki doki" means "heartbeat" What feelings COULD she have been talking about? Feelings of admiration? WHAT? Nah. She did that already. Love? Perhaps.

It's okay if you see no reason for NaruHina to happen. I feel that way about NaruSaku. It depends on how you look at things.

Here you go again about the whole SasuSaku thing. My essay wasn't even about SasuSaku. It was about NaruHina. Sure I threw in some stuff, but it wasn't the main point. Stop talking about SasuSaku. Look at it this way:

Part 1 - NaruHina, SasuSaku

Part 2 - NaruSaku, [SaiSaku?]

Part 3[or the next arc] - ???

Don't brush off NaruHina so easily. Naruto is far from over.

Boy I just love it when you NaruSaku-ers get so defensive. xDDDDD

What do you think?

The site

[gamerman_007]

Hm did you know in the databook it doesnt say ANYTHING about Naruto's crush on Sakura? But it does talk about Sakura's crush on Sasuke. And who wrote the databook? Kishi did. So perhaps Kishi doesn't really think into Naruto's feelings much? ;D

Yeah it does, the line from naruto to sakura is "love" with a little heart. Same with sakura to sasuke.

Eh..........s/he says hinata loves naruto? In the same databook as above, the line from hinata to naruto is "admiration". Where's that link?

[IchaIcha]

Uhh... this may be a bit late, but I just wanted to make a note.

^ Good idea, actually. I tried to join so I could make some points, but there are so many SasuSaku fans that even if you make good points, it'll be disregarded in two minutes, and they'll just return to agreeing with each other.

Yea I noticed that most NaruSaku arguments just got ignored anyway, that's part of why I didn't want to join. Also they have this topic on chapter 311 that I think is hilarious, cause they keep debating about wether or not the scene were Sai was talking to Naruto and Sakura was NaruSaku or just friendship. Its funny because the important part to pairings in that chapter wasn't Sai talking to them, but when he read the book saying if you use the -kun or -san suffixes with people you won't become any closer to them, which kinda hurts both SasuSaku and LeeSaku.

(this note is from PhoenixBlood at the NSvsSS forum)

I just wanted to post a little defense for the NSvsSS forum in response to some of the comments that were made in this thread.

Pyroneko, I'm sorry to hear that you were dissatisfied with the forum. However, I searched through the whole debate section and didn't find any posts by you, so I then checked the opinion/rant section and found one thread (SasuHina/NaruHina) in which you posted. I also noticed that your one post was specifically commented for good points. Maybe not every single one of your points was addressed directly, but it seemed to me that at least parts of it or the overall concept was each time. Just because "SasuSaku-ers" weren't convinced and continued to counter with their beliefs does not mean your posts were forgotten. I'm sorry you got that impression. And actually browsing through all the threads, it seems the number of active NaruSaku-ers is slowly catching up, it's just that we (SasuSaku-ers) have some frequent posters that may make it seem more unbalanced than it really is. Again, I'm sorry that you were dissatisfied, but I'm not sure what we could have done differently to please you other than be converted by your arguments.

Random Nobody, again, I'm sorry you also got the impression that NaruSaku arguments were being ignored. What I mentioned above about compliments to Pyroneko's post is a common occurence in the debate/opinion threads, so I don't really see how that is ignoring NaruSaku arguments. It sounds to me like it's acknowledging that NaruSaku-ers makes good points. We have been trying to advertise in several places to bring in more NaruSaku-ers (although I have already mentioned that it seems that the debate/opinion threads seem to be slowly gaining a better balance of active members from each fandom), but whenever I try to advertise, it seems to be met with such negative comments as you and Pyroneko have responded with. Which I feel is not only is an inaccurate portrayal of our forum and the intentions behind it, it also discourages other NaruSaku-ers from joining, which would help remedy the imbalance which happens to be one of your complaints.

Also, since I'm guessing you didn't take too close of a look, a nice demonstration of the spirit of this forum tha you may have missed is the fact that despite how much I dislike NaruSaku and don't think it will happen, I (and other SasuSaku-ers) have on several occasions switched sides and helped out with defending NaruSaku just to keep things more balanced and to prevent NaruSaku-ers from feeling overwhelmed or ignored. And if that is not proof enough that we are trying to accomodate your fandom, then I don't know what would be.

--

It's disappointing to me that a forum that was created for members of opposing fandoms to get to know each other, through (no bashing allowed) debate or off-topic threads and contests, has its intentions misunderstood. I was excited when I first checked out this forum because I thought I had finally found a place that, through encouraging interaction rather than separation of the "opposing" fans, can perhaps help reduce the animosity that seems to spring up between opposing pairing fandoms.

I hope to have at least cleared up some of the misconceptions with this post and to have better illustrated the intentions behind the forum. Thank you for taking time to read this, and I hope to see more of you come join us and only add to the fun at NSvsSS because really, that's what this should all be about.

~phoenixblood

[IchaIcha]

well if sakura didnt like naruto she would say no or saying I'M SORRY NARUTO.
BUT she didnt say that she just say, MAYBE WE CAN TRAIN together.

Honestly... its just how one interprets things but if I'm correct (I don't know if we're talking about the same thing) Sakura's line was translated to "Even if we had that kind of spare time, we'd be studying!" not "maybe we can train together" Ahha... well, it doesn't always hurt to play around with the translations a bit. Anyway--Sakura knows what it feels like to be rejected so her actions towards Naruto is not as hurtful as before. Its true that Sakura likes Naruto (as a friend or lover, take it anyway you want) but currently their connection is described as friendship, not a romantic relationship. We can't really argue that Sakura romantically likes Naruto because it hasn't been confirmed in the series yet. Currently, Sakura's feelings are unclear.

I also agree with AnimeGirl500, Naruto's feelings towards Sakura are still somewhat vague. He has never said anything on the lines of "I love Sakura". He asked Sakura out on dates countless times, but that doesn't exactly mean love.

[Smiter]

Just a quick note to say that I'm happy to welcome you to the debate thread, IchaIcha! It's always nice to see other viewpoints and discuss things in a interesting, and respectful, manner.

I'd like to respond to your thoughts, but I have to go to work in about half-an-hour... my debate posts can run forever if I get carried away. ;

However, it is true that the feelings on both sides are not completely clear. Although, it could be argued that - because Kishimoto had already in some way established Naruto's feelings for Sakura in Part One (as going way beyond friendship)- he saw no need to repeat that all over again. Naruto has already been through a fair few things:

1. Chapter 3 - He knows he has a crush on Sakura, but isn't sure why.
2. Chapter 3 (again) - He realises why he likes her, he saw the real Sakura for just a brief moment (her desire for acknowledgement).
3. Getting rejected by Sakura lots of times.
4. He fights for his important people against Gaara. That's Sasuke and Sakura. However, a lot of focus is placed on Sakura, and Naruto's determination redoubles each time he thinks of her. He doesn't stop until Sasuke tells him Sakura is safe.
5. The hospital scene. Naruto sees Sakura hug a disorientated Sasuke, and you can see the scene focus on his sadness. He realises Sakura really likes Sasuke, and that she may not have room for him in her heart. Tsunade noticed his reaction and his maturity in simply leaving the scene without a word.
6. The Promise. When Sakura begs him to bring Sasuke back, Naruto is crushed. But he makes his promise because he wants her to be happy. He is willing to sacrifice his happiness for her.

There are also those parts during the Waterfall fight, where Naruto gets enraged when he thinks of Sakura's crying, and also becoming more determined when he thinks of her and his promise. Of course, the fight does prove to be more than just Naruto's desire to fulfil his promise (his bonds to Sasuke).

After Naruto returns from training in Part Two (Chapter 245), he most definitely blushes when he sees Sakura! There is also a tender look on his face when he thinks Sakura could kill him (Chapter 246, after she breaks the ground). Of course, there is also the small part where he blushes (again) and calls Sakura "so cool" after she extracts the poison from Kankuro.

Since Naruto also keeps trying to get dates with Sakura, it does at least show he is still interested in her! I'm not completely sure if he thinks Sakura is still in love with Sasuke or not, but Naruto would most definitely not ask for dates if he did not see Sakura as more than a friend/comrade.

Oh... oops. I'm getting a little carried away. I should stop here before I make myself late for work. ;;; I'd like to clarify my points (Naruto is still attached to Sakura, Sakura is developing feelings) after I get back from work - but maybe someone will beat me to it. Sorry if I made any mistakes anywhere, I'm pretty rusty in debating at the moment.