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The NaruSaku Rant Thread


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#441 Blayze

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 11:38 AM

Perhaps we'll see Iruka at the ramen stand, and a knackered Shizune will stagger over and sit down tongue.gif

#442 Yoko

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 04:00 PM

Hey Minna-san! I'm at school right now. My teacher's taking attendance.... Anyway hi! *glomps all* I know I shouldn't be on the computer, but I am anyway.... >.> *hugs all* ^.^

Edit: Damn.... no one's on.... I feel so aloonne.... T___T

#443 sharingank

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 04:53 PM

NOOOOO KAKASHI WILL NOT END UP ALONE!! HE'LL BE WITH...ME!!!! XD XD XD XD XD I shall find a way to enter the Naruto-verse, and then I shall blow him away with my smexiness!! XD XD XD

MELLY-CHAN!!! *glomps*

#444 Yoko

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 05:08 PM

*is glomped* ^_____^ hey Ash-chan! *hugs*

#445 Guest_Aethos_*

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 02:38 AM

The S***S*** FC posted up a huge analysis of chapter 181 here's what it said

Click For Spoiler
QUOTE
I could have posted this in the episode 109 discussion, but since this is a very long summary of my analysis of this scene, I decided to make this topic. First of all, I want to say this: I see nothing wrong with the Sasuke-Sakura scene. It's pretty much better than the manga. I think Sakura had demonstrated well in front of Sasuke in terms of dialog. Let's analyze the dialog:



Sasuke: Why are doing down here so late at night? Just out for a scroll?

Sakura: In order to leave the village, you have to take this road.



This part is significant since this shows Sasuke crossing over to the dark side and Sakura is the one blocking the pathway to the dark side. Another thing is that they are standing at the area where they first meet and talk to each other as teammates and friends.



Sasuke: Go home and sleep.

*Sasuke walks past Sakura; Sakura starts crying*

Sakura: Why? Why won't you say anything to me? Why do you shut everyone out? Why won't you tell me anything?

Sasuke: Why do I have to tell you? I'm telling you that you meddle too much. Stop bothering me all the time.



It's quite obvious that Sasuke wants to cross the border as soon as possible, yet taking his time.? Sasuke is isolating himself from someone who cares about him and the reason Sakura cries is that... well, of course, Sasuke is leaving everyone, including his friends, and she is afraid that she will never see him again.



Sakura: You always act like you hate me, Sasuke-kun. Do you remember? When we became Genin... the day the three-man teams were decided and we were alone at this very spot. You were angry at me, weren't you?

(flashback)

Sakura: See, he doesn't have any parents. Being alone, he doesn't get yelled at by his parents. That's why he is so unruly.

Sasuke: Loneliness... you can't compare it to how you feel after you get scolded by your parents.

Sakura: What's wrong?

Sasuke: You are annoying.

(end flashback)

Sasuke: I don't remember.



Actually, he did remember, but he is denying it. The reason why Sakura reminds him of this incident is that this is the first time he feels less lonely after his entire clan got killed by Itachi.



Sakura: That's right. That was a long time ago. But it started on that day. You and I, and Naruto and Kakashi-sensei... The four of us have done a lot of missions together. It was difficult, and it was awful, but? but? even so, it was fun!



Sakura?s dragging every happy memory out from her mind to tell him that he should never forget what it is like to have friends and not feel lonely. Never forget the friendship and the bond that they have. Do not leave what you admire the most: the feeling of not being lonely. Do not separate yourself from that bond, because that is the only thing that makes your truly happy. This is the main reason why she tries to stop him ? to avoid ending that friendship and crossing the border will bring further unhappiness and loneliness, and Sasuke will have no one to turn to.



Sakura: I know about what happened to your clan, but with revenge alone, you will not be able to make anyone happy. No one? neither you? nor me?

Sasuke: I know that. I am different from you guys. I follow a different path than you guys. The four of us together? It?s true that I have thought of that as one possible path. Despite the four of us having been together, my heart has chosen revenge. I live for that purpose. I can?t be like you or Naruto.



He is saying that he doesn?t deserve something like this because he is different from everyone he knows. To him, he was wasting his time all along. Destiny awaits him and he has been denying it all this time. And that destiny is revenge. This is what he thinks. ?It?s true that I have thought of that as one possible path.? ? that?s just saying that path gave him the feeling of what it is like to have someone to love him. Remember that he used to say that he doesn?t let his comrades die. This is the ?one possible path? he was mentioning. He thinks that path makes him soft and vulnerable. That?s why he chose revenge, and in order to choose revenge, he has to walk away from that path and start dealing with reality.



Sakura: Aren?t you going to be lonely by yourself? Sasuke-kun, you told me that being alone is painful! I know that very well, so much that it hurts! I have family and friends. But? if you leave, for me? to me, it is the same thing as being alone!

Sasuke: From this point on, new paths will start.

Sakura: I? I love you more than anything! If you are by my side, I will make sure that you will not regret it. I will make everyday more enjoyable, and you will be happy! I would do anything for you! That?s why! I beg of you! Please stay here! I will even help you with your revenge! There must be something I can do! That?s why? please, stay here with me? If that is not possible, please take me with you.



That is Sakura?s Plan B ? ?I will stop you with the power of love?. Yeah, I can tell that all this crap came out very wrong, especially the ?make everyday more enjoyable? part.? She?s just telling him that he shouldn?t be doing this on his own and that he should not forget about his friends. She wants to stick to him because she does not want to think that he is not betraying everyone who loves him. It?s not because she loves him so much that it hurts her to see him leave and that she is unable to make him love her. No, you got that all wrong. She already knows that Sasuke will never love her, but she also knows that he can only like her as a comrade. That?s why she?s trying so hard to stop him from leaving. Yeah, I thought the part where she says ?I will even help you with your revenge? is oddly enough. She?s just saying that so that she doesn?t want him to think that choosing revenge is stupid and that she wants him to think that she supports his decision. All this crap leads to saying something like this:



?I don?t think what you are doing is stupid, but I still care about you, even though you are leaving everyone behind. I am the only one who can save you from getting hurt and I don?t want to lose you or see you get killed. Once you leave, no one will know where you are or what you are planning to do. Once you leave, no one can save you. Don?t make me worry too much about you. I want to see what you are really up to. If you take me, I will make sure that you are safe and I will be the witness to everything you do.?



Sakura is not some selfish b*tch. What do you think she is really trying to do? Make Sasuke admit his love for her and they both kiss under the moonlight? Hell no. She only wishes for his safety, that?s all. Also, she thinks she can stop him because she stopped him when he was trying to beat the crap out of Zaku and his gang in the Chuunin exam, and she thinks she can stop him again.



Sasuke: After all this, you?re still annoying.

Sakura: Don?t go! If you go, I will scream out loud and?

*Sasuke quickly runs behind her*

Sasuke: Sakura, thank you.

*Sasuke knocks Sakura out cold*

Sakura: Sasuke-kun? *drops*



What is he thanking for?

A: ?Thank you for trying so hard to stop me but I don?t give a damn of what you are saying.? Or

B: ?Thank you for being a friend and I will never forget the memories that I love when we work together as teammates.?


Technically, it?s both. He wants Sakura to think in terms of B, but what he really meant is A. He doesn?t want her to see what he really is and he doesn?t want to see her get hurt. He did not let her follow him because she is a weakling and she won?t be able to do kitten when she?s around. He knows that taking her with him will slow him down, and bringing her will cause more trouble once she finds out that he is ?hanging with the wrong crowd?. He?s doing this alone because he doesn?t want to worry about ?friends? too much and by worrying about his ?friends?, it will stop him or slow him down on the pathway to revenge. He needs to do this as quickly as possible. Working together will require too much reliance on partners, and if one partner can?t do things correctly, the other partner will be in deep kitten, and that partner can be him. By separating himself from the people he used to work with, it will cause less trouble and less worrying. That?s his way of thinking. He doesn?t want to hurt anybody. He?s not that cold-hearted.



This scene supposed to show that:



1. Sasuke is crossing over to the dark side.

2. This is the last place he is able to talk to his friend (Sakura), and that place is also the first place they both talked together as Genin.

3. The falling leaves symbolizes Konoha. The time when they first talked as Genin also have leaves falling around them. Sasuke is no longer a Konoha at this point.

4. The Moonlight symbolizes loneliness, and always has been. When the cloud covered the moon, Sasuke was talking about why he had to choose revenge. Sasuke will be lonely if he chooses revenge. Sakura will be lonely if Sasuke leaves her. That Moonlight used to shine when Yashamaru tried to kill Gaara, but that?s another story.



The importance of this scene is that this is supposedly the turning point of this arc and should not be confused with some romantic scene Kishimoto decided to put in for the heck of putting it in. It?s not romantic at all. Sakura did not make a stupid decision to try to stop Sasuke from crossing the border, and all these stuffs she said to him is not stupid at all. The problem is that Sasuke did not listen. He could have stopped following that path after he listened to Kakashi, who is like the first person to try to stop him from going to the dark side, but he changed his mind after meeting the sound ninjas. Even though he listened to another point of view from Sakura, he still insist on choosing revenge. Kakashi and Sakura are like the two smartest friends he had. You think Naruto is a better negotiator than these two? Hell no. Even if Naruto tries to stop Sasuke, they end up fighting again. Naruto will not understand this situation as much as he understands Neji?s situation and Gaara?s situation. Naruto cannot relate to Sasuke?s situation at all. Not even the other Genin can even talked Sasuke out of crossing the border. So this is why Sakura is the best choice of negotiating in this scene, and yes it failed. And it is not her fault at all.?


So then what are people's opinions on this? Heh of course the S***S*** group agreed with everything but heck they're looking far more into that chapter then we have throughout the entire manga. Heck they're even more certain now that Sasuke was proclaiming his love for Sakura.

Heck looking underneath the underneath is good but they're taking it too far.

#446 Faucon

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 05:11 AM

Wow lol they must of spent alot of time watching the episode over and over because i dinit saw any of that stuff.. umm i know that Sakura was trying to stop him with any way possible but that's a bit too much no? Trying to find something out with that scene
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#447 Soritia

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 07:12 AM

yeah, I found a lot of that to be farfetched and overly anaylzed. Those S***S***s *barf* probably have nothing better to do with their time.

#448 Smiter

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 09:57 AM

Yeah, it was over-analysed. happy.gif;

I mean, even saying that the time of their first meeting as teammates was "the first time Sasuke felt less lonely since the clan was slaughter" is pure assumption. There is no hint in the manga that he felt less lonely at that point.

He did feel less lonely when he was with Team 7 - and that is clear in his behaviour. He saw Naruto and Sakura as his new family.

I know we do assume at times for the NaruSaku arguments, but we have a lot of supporting evidence, and we don't go THAT deeply. Because we know to go too deeply and start wildly assuming is to ask the manga to bite you in the ass.

Well, if the neutrals and we were correct in interpreting that Sasuke doesn't love Sakura in that way, then the SasuSakus are only setting themselves up for a VERY hard fall by focusing on 181 and making a lot of assumptions.

I mean, we love 183's big moment (the promise and realisation), but we don't focus on that and we don't over-analyse it. We just say what we CAN see.

You know, I just had a thought. The SasuSakus argue we don't have a chapter similar to "their" 181 (I would hope not, since that was a rejection). But you could say that 183 is perhaps a good candidate. Naruto made his promise and left, Sakura made her realisations. Two partings, two different effects on Sakura.

EDIT: Hehe, sorry, I didn't read it all properly. I guess I was feeling too combative today. happy.gif;; All in all, while I feel the analysis was a little too deep, it did raise some interesting questions as I have said in the 109 thread.

I'm leaving the previous statement up since I can hold my hands up and admit when I've screwed up. wink.gif In future, I'm going to try and read an entire post before passing judgement. I have done that in the past, but I feel I have been lacking lately.

Anyway, I had a little realisation that could illustrate just how much Sakura's views have changed. I was reading the official Viz Naruto manga. In Volume 3, just before Sasuke squares off against Haku, Kakashi thinks something that proves to be very interesting when you compare it to the current manga chapters:

Kakashi: "Sakura challenges everything Naruto says or does... but she takes Sasuke completely at face value, without question."

The Inane was simply "Sakura's way too hung up on Sasuke."

Now, think of where we are at the manga. wink.gif

Sakura is challenging and questioning Sasuke now, and she accepts Naruto - trusting him completely.

I suppose that the statement about "Sakura's Plan B" could fit in with the manga events (she was desperate to get Sasuke to stay, she seemed to look really hurt (can't be sure) when she made her realisations, she wanted to see Naruto first, she was willing to drop the promise, and she didn't show any more hints that she loved Sasuke), but I'd wait and see what happens in the future storyline.

One thing is for sure. She definitely thinks very deeply of Naruto now. She knows he makes her feel better, stronger and she trusts him without question.

#449 Guest_Aethos_*

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 11:25 PM

Heh you'll just LOVE this... or just die laughing or something.

QUOTE
My favirote moment between the two was the hugging scene in the forest. Very touching moment between the two Sakura crying for him showing that she deeply cares for him, plus it show that Sasuke did care for Sakura if he was willing to reverse the curse seal for her. 

Sasuke wouldn't have done that for anyone else really do you think Kakashi or Naruto was hugging him and crying for him to stop would Sasuke reverse the curse seal?.... Yeah I don't think so either.


Oh and a list of supposed S***S*** scenes. From the S***S*** FC sorry but you'll have to decipher the l337 speak

QUOTE
1) The 'Who- Did -That -To - U- Sakura?!' cum 'That's - Not -Sasuke-kun.' scene! xD

2) Emotional hugging scene at the hosp!

3) Sasuke actually cares for Sakura scenes! (ie stabbing himself in the leg to save them both, catching her as she falls, knowing she's feeling down for the chuunin exam, shielding sakura n client with his body in front of rain nins, etc.... ya know)

4) Declaration of love scene!

5) Any scenes with the both of them! xD


#450 Yoko

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 11:31 PM

ROFLMAO! Dude... that's just pathetic....

#451 Blayze

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 11:33 PM

Reason #5 makes me want to take a spade to their faces. As does reason #3. And reason #2. And reason #1. And #4, actually.

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 11:34 PM

The first reason makes me laugh... they make it sound like Sakura's having sex with Naruto in Sasuke henge form and she finds out it's actually Naruto XD

#453 Blayze

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 11:46 PM

I read a fic of that. She only found out it was Naruto seconds afterwards, seconds before he forced her to have sex with him.

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 11:49 PM

Now that's something Naruto would NEVER do.

That's something Sasuke would do.

#455 Soritia

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 12:19 AM

Exactly, Sasuke's the obsessive one. Naruto's competitive but still tender one the inside. wub.gif

#456 Faucon

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 02:38 AM

LMAO lol, They used all the scene between the 2 of them and make them a love scene? HAHAHA.... ok... Does they know that in reason #3... Naruto was there too right?

For #2, Sasuke dinit even react at the hug, how can that be a emotinal hug?
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#457 Soritia

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 09:46 AM

Honestly, I have no problems with Sasuke liking Sakura... in fact, I prefer it, as long as it's one-sided. Yes! Let him suffer! He shall feel the pain Naruto endured for 240 chapters (even if Sakura does like Naruto, he doesn't know it... I don't think she knows it either :X) BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

*curses out FF.net* How long are they gonna stay Read-Only? On, Off, On, Off @_@ Make up your minds already!

#458 Smiter

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 11:21 AM

(EDIT: Ding! This is my 1,000th post on these boards! My, I have been active. tongue.gif)

------------


*smiles wryly*

The usual from the S***S*** FC, eh? I've always found it very strange that they describe the hug scenes as romantic and emotional. Sorry, but Sasuke was just out of his head both times.

1) Sasuke withdrew the Curse Seal because he was shocked when he realised what he was doing. You can't say only Sakura could stop him. Naruto was knocked out, and she was the only friend of Sasuke around.

2) Sasuke was confused and disorientated when he woke up in the bed. A thousand yard stare with both your arms pinned firmly to your sides doesn't make a romantic gesture. I should know about the confused part - I woke up in hospital like that and I couldn't even think straight.

We also didn't see any words Sasuke might have spoken because we left the scene with Naruto - he left before they could have said/done any more.

There was also a third hug that they seem to forget. tongue.gif It was after Sasuke "came back to life" after being used as Haku's pin cushion. She hugged him and cried, and he complained. "Sakura... let go of me. You're hurting me."

You know, if Sasuke liked Sakura so much, why would 181 play out that way? wink.gif He sees her as his sister, an important friend. Nothing more. Sakura also seems to know it judging by her comments on his pushing her away, not sharing anything with her.

Also, the times he has protected Sakura - he has also protected Naruto. Of course he would protect both people, they are his teammates! He cares enough about the two of them to do that. I have a feeling that if Sakura was a guy, then the SasuSakus wouldn't be seeing any "romantic" hints.

If it was going to be SasuSaku, then why would the storyline go the way it has? Why would Kishimoto have Sakura realise those little things about Naruto as time went along? Why would he leave quite few of those little realisations unresolved thus far (as in Sakura has not talked with Naruto about those)?

For example, Sakura knows Naruto saved her from Gaara and she gave him a sweet, grateful smile which he didn't see. Sure, in the anime, she is shown trying to give him some ohagi - but we have yet to see her actually thank him.

Sori is right about one thing. I think Sakura actually likes Naruto. wink.gif I mean, deep down, if she just wanted friendship - then she could have resolved things right away. But it seems she is filing many of those realisations away for later... Of course, we also have those thoughts she has on Naruto throughout the ENTIRE manga. Why would Kishimoto focus on Sakura at those specific moments if they meant nothing?

Naruto has earnt Sakura's complete trust. Who's to say he can't earn her heart? She gave Sasuke the trust and her heart without question in the early manga. But Naruto is earning them after continually exceeding her expectations. He's torn down every one of those old views she had against him.

That's why chapters such as 183 are major developments. I believe that the final wall crumbled there.

Oh, Episode 110 has just finished airing in Japan! Just a couple or so hours for the RAW providers to encode the video on their PCs, then we'll see it online. wink.gif

#459 Faucon

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 04:40 PM

The good side of all the manga and anime episode appearing is that some people actually see those tiny hints and realize that Naru/Saku is appearing very hidden like a ninja lol.

Well for me, i could see that there was something happening since the start and i still see them even after all these and some pairing (like S***S***) seems kinda impossible now unless blah blah Sasuke becomes good again suddently and blah blah OH i always love you Sakura .... you know the rest.
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Posted 24 November 2004 - 04:48 PM

And actually most S***S***'s only like the pairing because they're Sasuke and Sakura fans. Heck if you go into the S***S*** FC you'll see many comments on how GREAT Sasuke is and how he's not such an evil bad guy that he's really good and that only Sakura can save him from the darkness.

You know that sort of stuff.




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