1255 replies to this topic

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I did mention an idea in my head to Bryon about this sort of thing where you could have a group of kids who were orphaned from the Fourth Shinobi War - essentially a new generation of Yahiko/Nagato/Konan pretty much - who also had hope that Naruto would bring about real peace and change so that others wouldn't have to suffer like they did, but as those few years went by, they would quickly realize that it was not and never was going to happen with Naruto due to shinobi still being around and used and such, so like Yahiko/Nagato/Konan, they would start a group that would vow to bring about the change Naruto failed to bring/lied about bringing and would be the protagonists of the story while Naruto and the Alliance would be the antagonists; maybe not "evil" antagonists, but their hypocrisy/contradictions would end up being brought to light as the story went on, perhaps even causing the breakup of the alliance (or even relationships) due to Naruto saying/doing something stupid like, "The protection of Konoha is the most important priority" or something, which would end up irking the other Kages due to Naruto prioritizing Konoha specifically and not the world, and could also lead to people finally calling him out on the hypocrisy of certain actions by bringing up how, by the logic he was using, then Sasuke should be dead right now, and just be a huge downward spiral that would show just how fragile or even false the peace was, perhaps even leading to a Fifth Shinobi War that the protagonists would have to stop themselves somehow.

Just a rough idea I thought of on the fly at the time so no real details behind anything, lol.

 

We have had all kinds of discussions of how it feels like Naruto didn't really change things, and how to make things work in the "new world", as well as mentioning a lot of the contradictions. We're used to this sort of thing, and it is a cool idea, you gotta admit :)

[Nohvarr]

 

I can't imagine Boruto will be able to survive without heavily involving the original generation.

 

What I'm curious about is whether or not the manga will be willing to confront the implication that, by virtue of having new arcs and new villains and new ninjas, Naruto failed in his dream of establishing peace.

Naruto could've established peace in his time, more or less and thus call it a victory...one that leads to a greater corporation and fewer wars in the future...as total peace with no conflict would turn Naruto into The Federation from Star Trek TNG, and THOSE guys have no idea how to throw a good party. Hell the android threw a better party than any humanoid Federation officer on that ship....and it was a funeral.

 

Everlasting Peace is a nice goal and one worth working towards but it's not realistic by any stretch and becomes more of a journey than a destination. To quote Simon Pheonix

 

"You can't stop people from being kitten."

 

So Naruto having the strength to change what he can, the serenity to accept what he can not and the wisdom to know the difference would be a way to show the maturity he gained through his various life experiences. This would also Allow the new generation to make their mark on the world, learning from the past and leaving things perhaps just a little bit better for those to come after them.

 

How did Cleveland put it...ah yes 'You don't really win, you just do better the next time around.'

 

The story of humanity in all honesty.

[Nar123]

Naruto could've established peace in his time, more or less and thus call it a victory...one that leads to a greater corporation and fewer wars in the future...as total peace with no conflict would turn Naruto into The Federation from Star Trek TNG, and THOSE guys have no idea how to throw a good party. Hell the android threw a better party than any humanoid Federation officer on that ship....and it was a funeral.
 
Everlasting Peace is a nice goal and one worth working towards but it's not realistic by any stretch and becomes more of a journey than a destination. To quote Simon Pheonix
 
"You can't stop people from being kitten."
 
So Naruto having the strength to change what he can, the serenity to accept what he can not and the wisdom to know the difference would be a way to show the maturity he gained through his various life experiences. This would also Allow the new generation to make their mark on the world, learning from the past and leaving things perhaps just a little bit better for those to come after them.
 
How did Cleveland put it...ah yes 'You don't really win, you just do better the next time around.'
 
The story of humanity in all honesty.

Problem is that we never get this kind of rationalization from the story itself, we don't why, how or if he actually changed the world around him

The Shikamaru hiden novel shows Naruto fooling around and Kakashi not caring until there is a problem while Shikamaru did the hard work of setting up the peace terms of the alliance,so with this example here it gets even harder to believe Naruto helped in any shape or form in the government besides being a figure head

A Hokage needs to be a leader, it was never shown in the manga how Naruto behaves as a leader of his own team so we don't really know if he is a good leader at all, the Last would be a good movie to show this side of him but it was transformed and ruined by NH's nonsensical and retconned love story that ended up retconning the MC himself

Since we don't know how Naruto is as a leader and considering the information in the Shikamaru hiden, it seems very unlikely he helped that much besides the war even if he was the so called child of prophecy

[Nar123]

I did mention an idea in my head to Bryon about this sort of thing where you could have a group of kids who were orphaned from the Fourth Shinobi War - essentially a new generation of Yahiko/Nagato/Konan pretty much - who also had hope that Naruto would bring about real peace and change so that others wouldn't have to suffer like they did, but as those few years went by, they would quickly realize that it was not and never was going to happen with Naruto due to shinobi still being around and used and such, so like Yahiko/Nagato/Konan, they would start a group that would vow to bring about the change Naruto failed to bring/lied about bringing and would be the protagonists of the story while Naruto and the Alliance would be the antagonists; maybe not "evil" antagonists, but their hypocrisy/contradictions would end up being brought to light as the story went on, perhaps even causing the breakup of the alliance (or even relationships) due to Naruto saying/doing something stupid like, "The protection of Konoha is the most important priority" or something, which would end up irking the other Kages due to Naruto prioritizing Konoha specifically and not the world, and could also lead to people finally calling him out on the hypocrisy of certain actions by bringing up how, by the logic he was using, then Sasuke should be dead right now, and just be a huge downward spiral that would show just how fragile or even false the peace was, perhaps even leading to a Fifth Shinobi War that the protagonists would have to stop themselves somehow.

Just a rough idea I thought of on the fly at the time so no real details behind anything, lol.

I'll be honest

If this was the plot of the sequel + if it had a good writer

I'd read it

[rocci]

@nar123
That's one of the reason why naruto is a bad shonen hero.
He's really featless in that area.

Try to compare it with luffy who always ready to help the helpless.

[Nar123]

@nar123
That's one of the reason why naruto is a bad shonen hero.
He's really featless in that area.

Try to compare it with luffy who always ready to help the helpless.

Well what can you expect when the author himself was more worried in creating sob stories for his villains rather than fleshing out his MC?

[TouKen4Life3g]

The sad part is that the ones who don't have sob story gets bs ending. At least the later villains in the series. I think Immortal Arc was the last one that did it correctly.

[Bail o' Lies]

Problem is that we never get this kind of rationalization from the story itself, we don't why, how or if he actually changed the world around him

The Shikamaru hiden novel shows Naruto fooling around and Kakashi not caring until there is a problem while Shikamaru did the hard work of setting up the peace terms of the alliance,so with this example here it gets even harder to believe Naruto helped in any shape or form in the government besides being a figure head

A Hokage needs to be a leader, it was never shown in the manga how Naruto behaves as a leader of his own team so we don't really know if he is a good leader at all, the Last would be a good movie to show this side of him but it was transformed and ruined by NH's nonsensical and retconned love story that ended up retconning the MC himself

Since we don't know how Naruto is as a leader and considering the information in the Shikamaru hiden, it seems very unlikely he helped that much besides the war even if he was the so called child of prophecy

The thing is that in the War arc against the Ten tails Naruto led the charge and rallied the army a few time. That a start but it's the last that should have shown us Naruto growing into the leader role. Instead he was just a thug and a bodyguard bossed around by smart people. Since without the akatsuki there isn't really another threat for Naruto to deal with. So he should have focused on becoming hokage which is again what the Last and these novels should have shown us with the Gaiden and the bolt movie being the final product of the development from the last and the novels. Instead they focus on nH for both the novels and the last because that's all they care about. And in the gaiden, the ending, and bolt kishi turned Naruto into that miserable creature.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 12 February 2016 - 08:30 PM.

[Nar123]

The thing is that in the War arc against the Ten tails Naruto led the charge and rallied the army a few time. That a start but it's the last that should have shown us Naruto growing into the leader role. Instead he was just a thug and a bodyguard bossed around by smart people. Since without the akatsuki there isn't really another threat for Naruto to deal with. So he should have focused on becoming hokage which is again what the Last and these novels should have shown us with the Gaiden and the bolt movie being the final product of the development from the last and the novels. Instead they focus on nH for both the novels and the last because that's all they care about. And in the gaiden, the ending, and bolt kishi turned Naruto into that miserable creature.

Since part 1, Naruto already showed the capability of being "the heart" of the team, the one who strenghtens them with words and encouragement, this trait of his is obviously lampshaded by his trademark jutsu (that ended up being milked to oblivion to the point of becoming annoying...and no it isn't the rasengan), the talk no jutsu

This is what he did on the war, he managed to be "the heart" for the entire ninja alliance. Is this necessarily a bad thing though?
No, not really but the heart is not a leader and Naruto never truly led anything, in fact when Kishimoto had the opportunity to show him as a leader he screwed up completely and we have Hokage Naruto making questionable and stupid decisions such as letting two academy students follow him to a dangerous meeting in the Gaiden and letting Orochimaru remain free

Hell, in the last Naruto even lost his status as "the heart" and became just a dumber retconned version of himself, a mere pairing fodder for Hinata hime sama

Then we have the Kakashi hiden where Naruto wants to get rid of Tsunade "because she is old" and put Kakashi in her place when he knows how lazy Kakashi can be

It's like an entirely different character

Edited by Nar123, 12 February 2016 - 10:58 PM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

And that's why I will always continue to bring up how Naruto nor Sasuke were anywhere near ready to even be Chunin, much less Kage. They both had the brute force power (and Naruto with charisma at the time) to be a Kage, but that's it. Mentally, they were nowhere near prepared for the burden of being an actual leader, which is probably part of the reason why Naruto, the supposed chakra powerhouse, is so exhausted after doing nothing more than glorified mayoral work, as if he thought that being Kage meant he could just relax in an office, fight bad guys, and be praised as a hero all the time while seeming to forget all of the politics that are involved. In fact, Naruto seemed to never truly be taught about the realities of the world and, instead, always had his naivety/idealism indulged by others if not just simply outright ignoring those few attempts made (like when Jiraiya tried to get him to not chase Sasuke and speaking from his own experience with Orochimaru, but Naruto simply says he'd "rather be stupid"), so for example, when Ay didn't go for his Talk no Jutsu attempt, Naruto freaking hyperventilated and passed out as if he just couldn't accept the reality of what just happened and that things didn't go his way, which is something that constantly seemed to happen for him. Same with how he is in Gaiden and Boruto and obviously spending far more time in his office than at home while sending Kage Bunshin to deal with the family stuff while he himself stays in the office or whatever. It's like he's tried to create his own little bubble world to spend as much time as possible in rather than have to go home to the reality he doesn't want and that he himself created because of his own stupidity/naivety/etc..

[Bail o' Lies]

Did Naruto even become Chunin by the last? I don't think rank matter to Sasuke after the end because he has that wander thing going on.

 

As for getting ready for  the hokage position even if Naruto wan't ready by the ending he still had 15 years to get ready and grow to become hokage. Remember Kakashi only retired recently by chapter 700 (kiba said it, and that one shot showed it). Instead of preparing learning or anything. He just got with Hinata, then waited till Kakashi wanted to retire. As far as we know that all he did, and his brat are spoiled kittens.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 13 February 2016 - 09:26 AM.

[Namikaze Clan]

So is Kishi getting any money for this even though he's not writing?

[Bail o' Lies]

So is Kishi getting any money for this even though he's not writing?

Yes, it is his story. Even if he doesn't get royalties, he still is "supervising" it. 

[Shadow1275]

And that's why I will always continue to bring up how Naruto nor Sasuke were anywhere near ready to even be Chunin, much less Kage.

This is very accurate, Shikamaru was the only one to become Chunin because he stopped when he was knew he was defeated and had strategic skills. Just another forgotten plot element by Kishi

Edited by Shadow1275, 13 February 2016 - 04:56 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

And that's why I will always continue to bring up how Naruto nor Sasuke were anywhere near ready to even be Chunin, much less Kage. They both had the brute force power (and Naruto with charisma at the time) to be a Kage, but that's it. Mentally, they were nowhere near prepared for the burden of being an actual leader, which is probably part of the reason why Naruto, the supposed chakra powerhouse, is so exhausted after doing nothing more than glorified mayoral work, as if he thought that being Kage meant he could just relax in an office, fight bad guys, and be praised as a hero all the time while seeming to forget all of the politics that are involved. In fact, Naruto seemed to never truly be taught about the realities of the world and, instead, always had his naivety/idealism indulged by others if not just simply outright ignoring those few attempts made (like when Jiraiya tried to get him to not chase Sasuke and speaking from his own experience with Orochimaru, but Naruto simply says he'd "rather be stupid"), so for example, when Ay didn't go for his Talk no Jutsu attempt, Naruto freaking hyperventilated and passed out as if he just couldn't accept the reality of what just happened and that things didn't go his way, which is something that constantly seemed to happen for him. Same with how he is in Gaiden and Boruto and obviously spending far more time in his office than at home while sending Kage Bunshin to deal with the family stuff while he himself stays in the office or whatever. It's like he's tried to create his own little bubble world to spend as much time as possible in rather than have to go home to the reality he doesn't want and that he himself created because of his own stupidity/naivety/etc..

That's pretty much naruto in a nutshell how he wants everything his way and no way else. I like Ay cause he didn't care about Naruto's useless pate for Sasuke and though about the big picture saving the world were naruto only cared about Sasuke and would probably let everyone die just save Sasuke. Lightning form FFXIII isn't even that bad. Him not accepting reality would make a lot of sense of his actions and why he won't spend time with his family. Still don't know who's worst Naruto are modern SpongeBob.

[Namaenash]

Whelp, looks like Kishimoto is a filthy liar.

 

Surprise surprise.

 

https://40.media.tum...1riyb5k_540.jpg

Apparently, this says something about a new series this spring and that it's gonna be a monthly manga.

 

Closer look at image; http://psychedelic-c...ge/135490803301

 

Man, Salad's gone through three costume changes already. The first one matched Karin's the second one was a replica of Sakura's, and now she's in this short dress and high heels.

 

Edit; so apparently Kishimoto's assistant, Ikemoto, is drawing the manga, while the guy who wrote the Boruto movie is writing this, and Kishimoto is just "supervising" the new series.

 

Really? That's it? All of these horrid ending just to bring a monthly manga drawn and written by someone else?

 

Wow. What a wasted potential. They could do a great ending and story telling instead and then continue with story about Hashirama or any predecessors before Naruto... The franchise really is undergoing a slow and painful demise.

 

First off, there's only few successful monthly manga as far as I know, Fullmetal Alchemist is one of those few. Yes, it's a very high bar to pass. Monthly manga typically requires a sustainable fanbase to continue or a solid storyline.

 

Even FMA's 1st volume was sold only around 150k initially (of course, once it gained its fame, each of the volume sold at least 2.1 million copy. There are only 27 of them).

 

It's quite a high bar to pass, frankly... Even FMA, which was regarded as one of modern manga masterpiece starts with a modest number --if I'm not mistaken, the author (Hiromu Arakawa) managed to get Shogakukan and Seiun award when the series completed. Two other authors that I know of that has managed to get Shogakukan award once their series completed are Akira Toriyama (when Dr. Slumps completed) and Takehiko Inoue (when Slam Dunk completed)... and no, Kishimoto didn't receive the award when Naruto ends (this fact itself speaks volume).

 

Good luck to them, I guess...

[Namikaze Clan]

 

Boruto manga scans.  Looks like the release date isn't too far off

[rocci]

Dominion emblem.

[Yyubie]

LOL now they put mini pants under Sarada mini skirt.

That face though .... whoever made this clearly not Kishi,

[rocci]

It's his assistant the one who become this manga illustrator.