831 replies to this topic

[ns.Believe.It]

Yeah Kushina looks the angriest though and I have no idea wth is Minato doing upside down but its funny as hell  Maybe he's waiting to finally die and join the party XD .

Obito will soon be wishing he'd be sent to hell instead 

[TouKen4Life3g]

That is a bit surprising in a way. I mean a lot of other series would have a grown man with a very young girl. Loli if you may wish to call it.

[Nate River]

I knew something like this could happen. I didn't imagine it would be this bad.

This may be about as close as I get to actually being offended by this manga. The only way I could be moved by this is to forget everything Obito has done. Moreover, I'm not sure what's worse: this chapter or people's reaction to it.

Naruto, at one point, was my favorite characters. I can no longer take him seriously after this. He thinks Obito is the coolest because they share the same dream? He says THAT to the guy who murdered his parents, started a war that has resulted in countless casualties just to capture Naruto, killed Neji to prove a point, let Kyuubi run loose over Konoha, placed an explosive tag on an infant, attempted to goad Yahiko into his blood path, succeed with Nagato, blames Minato as if Minato had no other duties besides his live life, and the coup de'grace...he wants to take everyone's life and agency from them regardless of their connection to his tragedy because HE decided it was in THEIR best interest (and that's the generous reading...he really wanted so he could get his OWN dream). Those people in that tree...yeah Obito killed others and started wars for that.

That guy is cool?

It is one thing for Naruto to forgive Obito from crimes committed against Naruto but Naruto has this ugly habit of doing that on everyone's behalf and constantly getting away with it. I guess it's good that almost everyone is tied to a tree so they didn't have to hear that. Yeah, Naruto thinks the guy that killed your comrades is the coolest.

Taking a hit for Naruto doesn't undo his crimes. I agree with luffy that at least Black Zetsu calls him on it, but it bothers me because I cannot chalk this up the author being oblivious. Are you kidding Kishimoto?

Oh, and he gets to be with Rin. Pennannce? Bah. Punishment? What was that again? Responsibility? I heard of that once. Accountability? Must have been swallowed by that black hole. After all he's done, he still gets what he wanted because in the last few moments of his sorry existence he tried to help undo the tragedy that is largely his fault.

He;s destroyed many lives, but doesn't have to answer for anything (he got to choose his own death and go out a hero). No. He gets rewarded for it.

Completely, indefensible.
 
 

Wow. Well, that end for Obito was a little bit of everything. I am glad for Naruto being who he is and praising at least some aspects of Obito's person. Obito wasn't all bad. Bad choices maybe, but deep down he wasn't a bad person. He didn't kill for revenge or pleasure. He didn't go out of his way to kill people even when he did.

Bad choices don't begin to cover it. He started a war that has resulted in countless deaths. Those are on his hands. His acts against humanity as so atrocious I'm not sure why it matters he didn't kill for those reasons. This is minimization at its worst.
 
 

At least he got to be with Rin for once.

He doesn't deserve it.
 
 

I think people are confusing what a terrorist actually is. Terrorist thrive on chaos and destruction. They kill because it is fun and only to gain pleasure. Obito is not a terrorist. Im sorry, but he isn't. Instead, he was just a lost soul that killed people if they got in his way. That's the difference. Obito didn't go out of his way to kill people or took solace of it. He merely wanted Rin back and was willing to do anything to do it. Naruto saw inside Obito's heart and he knew that Obito was not an evil person. Madara and Kaguya were evil, not Obito.

You can only come to this conclusion by pretend he did something other than what he did. How many evil acts must one commit before the definition applies? I don't care about his intentions because regardless of what they are he's done great damage to the world he lives in. He was willing to do all he did up to this point...what's in his heart applies to more than the last 15 seconds of his life? That he claims did it for people's benefit doesn't mean its suddenly not evil.

This reminds so much of C.S. Lewis's comments on tyranny.
 
 

Obito even wanted people to support his goal and promised better loves to people. He even went to the Kage and said "Give me the tailed beasts, and I will allow you all to live. If not, then a war it shall be." He is not happy to go to war, he just found it to be a necessary. At least at the time. Terrorism is different. Terrorism is meant to keep people in fear. A psychological warfare of sorts. If anything, Madara and Orochimaru were terrorists.

Dictators often promise their people better lives as those dictators tear them apart.

I don't care if he "wasn't happy." This wasn't a war of necessity and you make it sound like he had no other choice. He absolutely did. He still went to war.
 

As for Naruto line of him being the "coolest guy," well, he calls Sasuke a "great friend." After that line, I pratically now just accpet anything Naruto says. Although, if I can give my two cents, obito has redeempable qualities about him. He wasn't always a jerk or a pissant with angst issues. This is unlike Sasuke who was akways a jerkface to everyone and treated people like crap. Sure, he wasn't as maniacal as he is now, but there is nothing redeemable about Sasuke. This is where I can see the line being drawn.

Yes, Naruto said that, so what? I'm not sure how that makes this defensible.

No agnst issue? Obito's entire character is one giant ball of angst issues about Rin. He entire character is predicated on that.

A jerk? Neji's dead to prove a point. That's a jerk.

He's far worse than Sasuke. Sasuke's an ass and a terrible person, but that says nothing abut Obito. Deeds matters and Obito's are so much worse right now.

Saying, but "Sasuke" isn't a defense.
 

Obito was NOT responsible of what he did. He lost himself on the way. He was manipulated.
Naruto is right, he was awesome.



I don't think Naruto is saying 'the coolest", maybe it's a mistranslation. But really, even if Naruto said "the coolest", I understand the feeling Kishi wanted to gave us. Just don't flip about this. It's just Naruto being Naruto.



Naruto is judging by the INTENTIONS a characters has. He easily forgets about ACTIONS if INTENTIONS are beautiful.

I'm a lot like him.

Yeah, Naruto does. An he's an oblvious idiot for doing so. Anyone can run their mouth. Deeds matter, and up until TnJ all of Obito's suck. Besides, I think his intentions were evil, too. Just because he said he was doing it for their benefit doesn't suddenly make it good.

As for manipulation? Yeah, Madara deserved what he got, but at what point are people responsible for their own choices?

Kishimoto's answer is never. I'm just a little floored so many members agree with him because as far as I can tell the only time they expect people to be held responsible is when their name is Sasuke.'

Results matter. Good intention aren't a cure all.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

@Nate River.
And to make matters worse Obito died, making Naruto's decision to forgive him unchallenged he wont be held responsible.

[James S Cassidy]

Yes, Naruto said that, so what? I'm not sure how that makes this defensible.

Well, Nate, you said it yourself. So what? So what if Naruto thinks Obito was a cool guy? So what if he calls Sasuke a great friend?

Everything you have basically said I can basically apply the same logic to Naruto's view on Sasuke. The difference here is that Sasuke is probably going to live, be accepted back, and not get any recourse what so ever, gain alot of respect for nothing, and get a girl to love him despite treating her like crap. Obito got everything in death meanwhile Sasuke gets everything in life for no reason what so ever. Banishment from Konoha? Pfff....not like he wanted to stay there in the first place.

This is what I like to call humorous irony because in reality me and you are in the same boat, just facing different directions. Also, you kind of knew this was coming. Just like how I know what Sasuke's end is going to be regardless of personal opinion.

"We are nothing like God. Not only are our powers limited, we are sometimes driven to become the devil himself."
-Wolfwood. Trigun.





 

[Gravenimage]

James I love that quote so much. Wolfwood is my favorite character in the series, I'm still crying that he died.

[James S Cassidy]

James I love that quote so much. Wolfwood is my favorite character in the series, I'm still crying that he died.

Mine too and likewise. I always loved his relationship with Vash too because they always looked like they had a lot of fun. ^_^

[Change]

How come some of you guys are still mad Naruto said that if it seems like Naruto is talking about kid Obito

[Don-kun]

Because what he said what stupid and it makes him an hypocrite. No sure if I spell that right.

[Change]

Because what he said what stupid and it makes him an hypocrite. No sure if I spell that right.

But explain
I can say anything is stupid

[ns.Believe.It]

Because what he said what stupid and it makes him an hypocrite. No sure if I spell that right.

Come on, there is really no need to call Naruto a Hypocrite for that. Obito's words were pretty touching and he did save Naruto's life and rescue Sasuke( which gives a +100 positive points from Naruto). And it was Obito's dream as a child of becoming Hokage and stopping the war that Naruto found cool.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

I'm not going to argue who's worse, Obito or Sasuke, but I will say this.

 

Whatever Sasuke has done, his motivations for doing evil things and briefly becoming evil were more believable. Itachi killing his family, the belief Itachi always hated him, only killed his family on his whim, left him lonely etc. All of these were justifiable reasons for why Sasuke become what he was and left the village. Even trying to killing Naruto the first time just for  revenge and while of course it was wrong, I can understand became that way.

 

Sasuke deciding to destroy the village, scapegoating the entire blame of what happened to Itachi on ignorant people and ignoring Itachi's own agreement is inexcusable. Maybe he's not like that anymore, but you can't excuse such behavior no matter how miserable he felt and thought his life was a lie. But again, I can understand how he got there and say "Hey, that's a decent background to turn to evil."

 

Why did Obito turn evil? He just saw the girl he loved die, granted by his best friend but it could've been worse. Maybe his relationship with her was important and I do know it extended past Rin (seeing Kakashi break his promise, his team shattered, and seeing it as a product of war), but it's not particularly sympathetic. He didn't even ask questions. As horrible as Sasuke was with his revenge against Konoha, at least he asked for confirmation on it multiple times. Even before deciding to kill Danzo he did this and again with Itachi. I can't say the same for Obito.

 

Maybe it's just me, but an 8-year old boy coming home to find his entire family killed for "petty reasons" while being spat on by his older brother that he was so close only to realize later, after years of hating him and plotting to kill him, that brother loved him and was used as a tool for his birthplace seems like a better influence in becoming evil than losing the girl you loved at 12 over war and a broken promise.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 31 July 2014 - 06:24 PM.

[Don-kun]

I will still cald is words stupid is like Kushina and minato never die, the village never blame the Uchihas because of the Kyuubi, Jiraiya never die, because Neji never Die, because 400.000 people never die in this war, some of Konoha 11 parents never die, Sasuke clan was never murder because the village did not trust them after the kyuubi event so many things that happen where the Obito hands was part of but why is so hard to see that because obirin and narusaku stuff, but with Sasuke yes he is an ass but because off SS some try to see him as worts than Obito. Honestly how in the hell can some come to that conclution.

[ns.Believe.It]

I'm not going to argue who's worse, Obito or Sasuke, but I will say this.

 

Whatever Sasuke has done, his motivations for doing evil things and briefly becoming evil were more believable. Itachi killing his family, the belief Itachi always hated him, only killed his family on his whim, left him lonely etc. All of these were justifiable reasons for why Sasuke become what he was and left the village. Even trying to killing Naruto the first time just for  revenge and while of course it was wrong, I can understand became that way.

 

Sasuke deciding to destroy the village, scapegoating the entire blame of what happened to Itachi on ignorant people and ignoring Itachi's own agreement is inexcusable. Maybe he's not like that anymore, but you can't excuse such behavior no matter how miserable he felt and thought his life was a lie. But again, I can understand how he got there and say "Hey, that's a decent background to turn to evil."

 

Why did Obito turn evil? He just saw the girl he loved die, granted by his best friend but it could've been worse. Maybe his relationship with her was important and I do know it extended past Rin (seeing Kakashi break his promise, his team shattered, and seeing it as a product of war), but it's not particularly sympathetic. He didn't even ask questions. As horrible as Sasuke was with his revenge against Konoha, at least he asked for confirmation on it multiple times. Even before deciding to kill Danzo he did this and again with Itachi. I can't say the same for Obito.

 

Maybe it's just me, but an 8-year old boy coming home to find his entire family killed for "petty reasons" while being spat on by his older brother that he was so close only to realize later, after years of hating him and plotting to kill him, that brother loved him and was used as a tool for his birthplace seems like a better influence in becoming evil than losing the girl you loved at 12 over war and a broken promise.

 

As Kishimoto likes to explain, Uchihas are very emotional.

How can normal humans like us be expected to understand the great Uchihas?

 

So, what I want to say is,

Don't bother defending or analysing the words and deeds of the Uchihas in this manga, It'll only make your head spin. 

[FireFox]

Obito will soon be wishing he'd be sent to hell instead 

The heaven doesn't look like heaven so much now , pretty much wherever he goes its gonna be hell for him  Lol XD

[ns.Believe.It]

The heaven doesn't look like heaven so much now , pretty much wherever he goes its gonna be hell for him  Lol XD

True   You know, how much ever I try to feel sad for the guy, I fail 

[FireFox]

True   You know, how much ever I try to feel sad for the guy, I fail 

The same after what he did to poor Kushina , Minato and Naruto I just can't no amount of regret will make me sympathize with him , Naruto went trough ton of crap and look at him he doesn't blame the world for it he's living with that pain and accepted that like a man and tries to make the world a better place which I can't say that for Obito and Sasuke who comes of as whiny Uciha's brats .

 

God Damn It Itachi you only had to kill just one more just one more and we wouldn't have this Uciha crap through the whole story and the world  and the manga would have been a better place not the kitten that we have seen    .

[ns.Believe.It]

The same after what he did to poor Kushina , Minato and Naruto I just can't no amount of regret will make me sympathize with him , Naruto went trough ton of crap and look at him he doesn't blame the world for it he's living with that pain and accepted that like a man and tries to make the world a better place which I can't say that for Obito and Sasuke who comes of as whiny Uciha's brats .

 

God Damn It Itachi you only had to kill just one more just one more and we wouldn't have this Uciha crap through the whole story and the world  and the manga would have been a better place not the kitten that we have seen    .

One can only wish... What might have been 

But I do wonder how Sasuke would have turned out to be if Itachi had not eliminated the clan. No doubt Sasuke would be even more  of a pompous jerk than he is now, but would he be this insane?

[luffyq1]

Almost all the Uchiha's we know has committed a heinous act. Itachi slaughtering his clan, Sasuke making Karin into a sacrificial lamb and Obito placing an explosive tag on a baby. There should be a scumbag award for these Uchiha's.

[melovechoco]

Okay, obito is officially dead for real this time..and wow, I'm getting excited for the future chapter.

Dont forget about kaguya's& black zetsu plan: recreating the fruit.

Do you think that naruto and sasuke will successfully seal kaguya this time?

If they succend, what will happen next? Just straight to narusasu fight or what? What about the castle? Hamura? the hokages? The fruit?

We almost forgot about this.