1001 replies to this topic

[James S Cassidy]

That's still doesn't explain it. This chapter explained Sasuke's chances to turned good increased more than 50% without any input from Naruto. All of this came from a history lesson? Then suddenly decided to protect the village that "ruined" your clan? Hence why I called Sasuke wishy-washy. Because of Kishimoto's silly liking for the "rival" he's been inconsistent with Sasuke's goals. It's going back and forth. And continuing to flip the coin endlessly.

Yeah this.

I think we need to draw a line here about something. Some members are confusing how people feel on this.

For example, Sasuke changing to good is not unexpected and it has been hinted at, this is true. However, what is unexpected is what Derock said nicely: Naruto did nothing to change that impact. I could even argue that every time Naruto and Sasuke were on screen, things got worse not better. We also have these characters who are flipping faster than coins on decisions making. This was my problem with Sasuke since the beginning, but no one listened to me and they still don't.

All I will say is this in order for a Naruto vs Sasuke fight to happen: Sasuke HAS to be evil.

If Sasuke was a Batman villain, he really would be "Two-Face" as he seems to hold that split personality.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 11 April 2013 - 01:19 AM.

[Kimmy]

OK I know our opinions are all subjective... but for me personally, I strongly, strongly disagree that Sasuke's redemption was an asspull in any way. If anyone's was a bit weird, it's Oro's. But not Sasuke. Kishi HAS been building this up...so I doubt asspulls in the pairings department will follow.

Guys I mean from 50+ chapters ago, it was pretty obvious that seeing his brother again had changed Sasuke in some way. He no longer seemed as crazy as when he attacked the summit- at that point, if right after that, what happened in 627 happened, then YES, I would be like "WHAT?!!!"

BUT it didn't. We saw Sasuke seeming to regain some sort of clarity during the fight with Kabuto. He stopped randomly lashing out. That's where it all clearly began! So I honestly feel it's unfair to say Sasuke changed his mind over two panels or just because of the flashback.

And in the first place, it's not like Sasuke's all "OMG I LOVE KONOHA NOWWWWW". I doubt it's that simple. I'm sure a part of him still feels very poisoned and made use of by the Konoha leadership. BUT, the fact that the situation is coming down to helping Madara destroy the entire world, or helping to save this very world his brother fought to protect. And, in the end, Sasuke still felt that little bit of attachment to Konoha, and because Hashirama's words made him realise better exactly what Itachi fought to protect. It doesn't mean he'll come back to Konoha and like SasuSaku would happen and everything will be PERFECTTTT. He just isn't so far gone to be willing to allow Madara to destroy everything.

I mean while I know it seemed like it should be/was built up that Naruto would be the one to change Sasuke...in many ways I feel this is more meaningful. Itachi was telling Naruto that he shouldn't try to do everything on his own. EXACTLY. If NOONE else can bring back Sasuke, then there's this further build up of Naruto as some sort of messiah who has to SAVE EVERYONE. And he's alr trying to SAVE THE ENTIRE WORLD FROM MADARA. I really, really like how it didn't need for Sasuke to be redeemed only after getting his butt kicked by Naruto, that he made this choice on his own. That's growth, people. It showed that Sasuke isn't some static tabula rasa who needs to be written on by Naruto. And it would be so stale and even more boring if Sasuke just went even more crazy when he seemed to show some signs of sanity (As well as making even less sense and his character seemed incapable of growth). It's not that Naruto played no role. I'm sure Sasuke's memories with Team 7 formed that strong attachment that endured even as he descended into darkness and provided the foot in the door for his change of heart.

I mean, Sasuke here is breaking the cycle of the Madara/Hashirama, Obito/Kakashi parallel, not just Naruto himself. I love how it's Sasuke coming to his senses without being forced to. It's symbolic of how the Uchiha clan as a whole isn't beyond redemption, isn't this cursed clan always doomed to insanity when they suffer tragedy.

I think honestly Sasuke appreciated the Hokages' candour- even if Tobirama was pretty harsh. He's been lied to all those years as a child, so I think the Hokages' honesty meant a lot to him. I think the fact that he saw Itachi in Hashirama further helped, and Tobirama's acknowledgement of Kagami and Shisui's loyalty.

so i loved this chapter. just my opinion, of course

What I think too

[Shadow1275]

Yeah this.

I think we need to draw a line here about something. Some members are confusing how people feel on this.

For example, Sasuke changing to good is not unexpected and it has been hinted at, this is true. However, what is unexpected is what Derock said nicely: Naruto did nothing to change that impact. I could even argue that every time Naruto and Sasuke were on screen, things got worse not better. We also have these characters who are flipping faster than coins on decisions making. This was my problem with Sasuke since the beginning, but no one listened to me and they still don't.

All I will say is this in order for a Naruto vs Sasuke fight to happen: Sasuke HAS to be evil.

Its more than that too. When Naruto and Sasuke fought in the Land of Iron, Naruto said that when Sasuke attacks the Leaf, Naruto will fight him. Now that Sasuke wants to protect Itachi's legacy, he will not attack the Leaf. Itachi's legacy was the safety and peace of the Leaf village. Therefore, Kishi has just eliminated the reason for Naruto to fight Sasuke.

Now considering that that Taka/Kage/Orochimaru love-fest seemed really forced. I think that there is more to this then meets the eye. Sasuke never counted on the fact that Hashirama would be able to resist Orochimaru. Even though it would be so many ppl against Hashirama, we saw that just his chakra alone was enough to scare the other Kages. Perhaps Sasuke will wait for them to head off to the battlefield and then show his true colors. Either way somethings up.

@FoolishYoungling

Relax, Sasuke hasn't shown any feelings at all for Sakura so the likelyhood of SS is still not high. Romance doesn't seem to be his thing.

Edited by Shadow1275, 11 April 2013 - 01:26 AM.

[Derock]

If Sasuke was a Batman villain, he really would be "Two-Face" as he seems to hold that split personality.

Yo, if Sasuke lost half of his face, I will die a very happy man!

[FoolishYoungling]

All I will say is this in order for a Naruto vs Sasuke fight to happen: Sasuke HAS to be evil.

Sasuke has to be evil because Naruto vs Sasuke has been the most hinted at thing in this entire series. I'm 99% sure Sasuke won't remain a good guy. If he does, then it would be a HUGE fail by Kishimoto. However, I honestly don't believe Kishimoto is this bad of a writer. He has been very good, and that's why we're all here. If he screwed up, and this is a way of "fixing everything", then I might bang my head against a wall for 24 hours straight to make up for all the time I wasted in this anime. I will also then crown One Piece the better anime.

Relax, Sasuke hasn't shown any feelings at all for Sakura so the likelyhood of SS is still not high. Romance doesn't seem to be his thing.

Not worried about that too much. Sasuke has NO reason to fall for Sakura. He has Karin and Ino. They both hold as much as a chance as Sakura, considering Sasuke doesn't love girls. I was just saying that I am scared that Kishimoto might of just ruined everything.

Edited by FoolishYoungling , 11 April 2013 - 01:30 AM.

[rocci]

I am the one who say sasuke will save sakura bridal style. Well intention is just joking about it, and if that mean jump ship I don't. So I apologize to say that.

But I will drop this manga if naruto's rin is hinata.

[fireandice]

Yeah this.

I think we need to draw a line here about something. Some members are confusing how people feel on this.

For example, Sasuke changing to good is not unexpected and it has been hinted at, this is true. However, what is unexpected is what Derock said nicely: Naruto did nothing to change that impact. I could even argue that every time Naruto and Sasuke were on screen, things got worse not better. We also have these characters who are flipping faster than coins on decisions making. This was my problem with Sasuke since the beginning, but no one listened to me and they still don't.

All I will say is this in order for a Naruto vs Sasuke fight to happen: Sasuke HAS to be evil.

If Sasuke was a Batman villain, he really would be "Two-Face" as he seems to hold that split personality.

Hmm...I think for Sasuke, seeing Itachi again provided real closure and played a HUGE ROLE in bringing him back more to normal. Because from what I read, I sensed that Sasuke's hatred towards Konoha after he found out the truth was that of a child so angry that the entire world lied to him, that he was fooled into spending all these years into hating the older brother he had loved and looked up to all along. I bet he hated himself for not seeing the truth, that Itachi REALLY was the loving brother he was, and that he played a role in his death without ever being able to talk to him again. It really hurt Sasuke that he never got to reconcile with Itachi and that Itachi probably died knowing Sasuke hated him always.

I just really disagree that Naruto has to be the one playing the main role. I don't feel that Naruto did nothing, and I think he did enough already. His time with Sasuke in Team 7, his efforts to bring him back definitely played a part in making Sasuke still have that little bit of attachment to Konoha. I honestly felt it was UNREALISTIC that Sasuke couldn't be redeemed or at least come to his senses UNLESS Naruto kicked his butt which the series seemed to be building up to. It makes Sasuke seem to static on his own, and Naruto too much of a messiah who has to rescue Sasuke on top of stopping Madara.

I really love how Kishi did it because it's a sense of "in the end, sometimes you can't force people to walk the path they want to or to save everyone. They make their own choices- and sometimes we can hope that there's still some good left in them." I really felt sorry for how Sasuke was manipulated by the Konoha elders, and lied to by Itachi. It would be a disservice if Sasuke's redemption had to come about only through other forms of coercion (Naruto dragging him back) or manipulation. That is why I much prefer this- because Naruto's ideals are put in the context of a much more universal idea that Hashirama, Kagami AND Shisui shared, instead of him seeming like a ninja jesus without whom NO ONE has these concepts.

[Shadow1275]

Sasuke has to be evil because Naruto vs Sasuke has been the most hinted at thing in this entire series. I'm 99% sure Sasuke won't remain a good guy. If he does, then it would be a HUGE fail by Kishimoto. However, I honestly don't believe Kishimoto is this bad of a writer. He has been very good, and that's why we're all here. If he screwed up, and this is a way of "fixing everything", then I might bang my head against a wall for 24 hours straight to make up for all the time I wasted in this anime. I will also then crown One Piece the better anime.

Doesn't it go in terms of popularity in Japan?

1.One Piece

2.Bleach

3.Naruto

Thats what I heard anyway.

[narusakuluv]

Yeah this.

I think we need to draw a line here about something. Some members are confusing how people feel on this.

For example, Sasuke changing to good is not unexpected and it has been hinted at, this is true. However, what is unexpected is what Derock said nicely: Naruto did nothing to change that impact. I could even argue that every time Naruto and Sasuke were on screen, things got worse not better. We also have these characters who are flipping faster than coins on decisions making. This was my problem with Sasuke since the beginning, but no one listened to me and they still don't.

All I will say is this in order for a Naruto vs Sasuke fight to happen: Sasuke HAS to be evil.

If Sasuke was a Batman villain, he really would be "Two-Face" as he seems to hold that split personality.

Sasuke always has been a bit wishy-washy, but this is too far to be believable. His decisions always seem to push him further away from Konoha and as he got further and further away from sanity that made sense.
I guess that is one thing that bothers me more than Sasuke's "alleged" heel face turn (I still don't believe it). The last time we saw Sasuke before the war, he was nuts. He was completely off his rocker. Now he's all calm and collected and ready for business. I get that meeting with Itachi was enlightening for him, but I don't know. Maybe Kishi realized Sasuke was going to far off the deep-end and pulled him back in.
I mean, seriously:



Personally I think all of this is just to make it a little more believable when Naruto saves Sasuke. And Naruto will be the one who saves Sasuke, not a history lesson by the First.

Edited by Derock, 11 April 2013 - 01:33 AM.
Fixed the Youtube vid. ~ Derock

[Verilance]

Doesn't it go in terms of popularity in Japan?

1.One Piece

2.Bleach

3.Naruto

Thats what I heard anyway.

If you are talking strickly WSJ manga then it is

One Piece
.
.
.
Naruto
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Bleach has been dropping in popularity like a stone

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

There is about two things I'm sure of right now. First of all, Orochimaru does not have a change of heart. I'm 98% certain that he is still very evil and definitely has something under his sleeve. Orochimaru's smart. He knew from the beginning that Hashirama was free so of course he decides to play the submissive "whatever you want, I'll do" act, even for Sasuke. He can't risk mouthing out his evil intentions. Saying that, he could've just left them be if he had no interest with them. Clearly he needs them for something, we just don't know the what. So I predict Orochimaru's supposed assistence and "good" attitude is just a ruse. The only honest thing I see from Orochimaru is that he's genuinely intrigued and interested by Sasuke's decision that vastly differs from his own. That's about it.

Secondly, Sasuke is not entirely good with the "Let's save the village for puppies and Christmas, I'll do the right thing" mentality he's outwardly displaying. Realistically, if Naruto couldn't get through to him, it's terribly forced and OOC to have him let go and suddenly not bear grudges. All of us have said this and I think Kishi is aware of this. Sasuke has not shown he's forgiven the village and no longer hates his home. Knowing his character, he still has resentment towards it and can't forget it. He still hates the village, just not as much as before. Conclusion? Sasuke still would like to destroy it. He still hates the people, he still "hates" Naruto. What's happening here is that finally some logic is catching up to him through his emotional instability, causing him to rationally realize his revenge is misguided and pointless. He killed Danzo (which he doesn't and will never regret) so that's as far as he needs to go. But it's more than that. Sasuke realizes Itachi's sacrifice and how much he loved the village and that it would be a betrayal of his brother if he did the opposite. He does not share those feelings himself yet but wants to uphold it.

Do not see this? Itachi was the one who caused him to want to protect the village, not himself or his bond to Naruto. This is a very, very vital piece of information. It means Sasuke's character development is incomplete and he's not redeemed. He has two more major steps to go through first. Sometime in the battlefied, he needs to acknowledge Naruto's sacrifice and genuine bro love for him and not in a sneery "You're pathetic" way. After that, it's T7 as a whole. And finally, through the influence of Naruto, Sasuke let's go of his hatred and makes peace with himself and Konoha. He'll want to protect the village for Itachi, Naruto, and himself. Only by this point will Sasuke's development be finished, will he be redeemed, and truly a good (albeit jaded) person.

So no, Sasuke's not suddenly good. He still has his own issues. He's more like 50% percent good in comparision to his previous 5% good in the Kage Summit Arc. Sasuke's on the right path to redemption at last but he has a few more hurdles (in the form of inner conflict) left to go. I disagree with the belief that Naruto was not involved in his redemption. He will be, the emphasis demands it. Itachi was only the first half that created that 45% percent goodness in Sasuke. Sure, it might not be as flashy and satisfying as I might have liked but Naruto is going to be the final piece that "saves" Sasuke. I'm sure of it now.

The important thing is, for the first time in a while, Sasuke finally got positive development. He's realizing to some extent the world doesn't revolve around him and that he was being wrongly selfish and immature. He acknowledges this now, a stark contrast from his fixed outlook that he had the most painful suffering and the "right" thing was to make everyone suffer with him. He's not over his rage/hate but he knows it's wrong and wants to change. For Itachi. For the first time since the Chunin Exams arc, Sasuke is actually channeling selflessness and doing something for someone who sacrificed more than he did and he's not getting anything out of it. For someone as conceited and arrogant as he is, this is a good, impacting moment. As a Sasuke fan, under circumstances that didn't seem so rushed, I would be very estatic and overjoyed over this. I'm disappointed I can't be happier, it's almost my ultimate dream for him. If only Kishi had executed it better ...

I've come to terms with this plot twist after discussing this with my brother, I'm no longer angry with this very much. This is far from my favorite chapter but if my prediction is right, then I can be okay with this. I'm looking forward to the inevitable SasuNaru drama, Team 7 reunion 3.0, and the likely NaruSakuSasu resurfacing (I'm not worried about SS really, it's still IMO dead thanks to Sasuke's character).

Sorry if my predictions don't really make any sense, I still haven't fully absorbed this "Sasuke is no longer evil" concept. It's the most unexpected thing Kishi has ever done and he's pulled a lot of these. Maybe after the break during the next chapter, I'd stop being in complete shock and denial, having "Did that really just happen?" constantly repeating itself over and over in my head. You should've seen my expression when I first read the chapter, I was utterly stunned for at least 40 minutes.

[James S Cassidy]

Sasuke has to be evil because Naruto vs Sasuke has been the most hinted at thing in this entire series. I'm 99% sure Sasuke won't remain a good guy. If he does, then it would be a HUGE fail by Kishimoto. However, I honestly don't believe Kishimoto is this bad of a writer. He has been very good, and that's why we're all here. If he screwed up, and this is a way of "fixing everything", then I might bang my head against a wall for 24 hours straight to make up for all the time I wasted in this anime. I will also then crown One Piece the better anime.

Here lies a problem, he literally is going to fight Madara to protect Konoha, but he also wants to destroy Konoha as well. The whole reason for the Naruto vs Sasuke fight anyway. If Sasuke is now choosing not to destroy Konoha, then what is the point of the Naruto vs Sasuke fight. Naruto already told Sasuke he wasn't going to chase him anymore, but if he comes back to destroy Konoha he will fight.

So what other reason could Naruto want to fight Sasuke if not because he wants to destroy Konoha? Speaking of which, why protect it only to destroy it anyway? Unless it is like I said, he doesn't want anyone else to do it, but him.

[TouKen4Life3g]

It only ruins it if Sasuke is completely good now, has no intentions of destroying or harming Konoha and wants to skip off into the sunset with Team 7. Sasuke could still be an enemy of Konoha. Also, who's to say he's going to come back to Konoha now? There is still room for plenty of conflict, angsty feelings and epicness. Personally I don't think he's done with his vendetta against Konoha yet.

I say it is way too early for anyone to be freaking out. Doesn't this always happen? We get a chapter that makes it look like Kishimoto's jumped the shark and then later it turns out to be not as bad as we thought, or even not bad at all. And then everyone feels pretty dumb for jumping to conclusions.

Like 615. The hand-holding moment had NH fans shouting "Canon" and NS fans threatening to jump ship left and right. Then the next chapter everyone felt stupid because it turned out there was a practical purpose.

Seriously, everyone needs to Calm. Down. The reason everything felt like it happened to quickly was because it did happen to quickly. It took 3 pages. 3 pages for the largest character arc in the manga to come to a close? I don't think so. Plus, Sasuke didn't show a whole lot of emotion other than looking sort of angry. Additionally, if you look closely at the pictures of Itachi behind him, most of them are with Itachi bleeding, or being violent. Hardly any with a serene, dedicated Itachi who was determined to protect Konoha. It feels like if this were about Sasuke purely protecting Itachi's legacy, there would be more positive images.

This.

If you are talking strickly WSJ manga then it is

One Piece
.
.
.
Naruto
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Bleach has been dropping in popularity like a stone

Yeah, it really has. I blamed the last two arcs, especially HM arc. By god, talk about a sequel arc that only doing the same as the first one.

[Shadow1275]

If you are talking strickly WSJ manga then it is

One Piece
.
.
.
Naruto
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Bleach has been dropping in popularity like a stone

Makes sense. Bleach got boring after the Soul Society arc. Though I think that Sasuke will show his true colors, his popularity had been going down ever since he turned evil. Maybe Kishi wanted to save his character. Either way 627 though not bad for NS still came out of left field in my opinion anyway.

Edited by Shadow1275, 11 April 2013 - 01:43 AM.

[Derock]

Makes sense. Bleach got boring after the Soul Society arc. Though I think that Sasuke will show his true colors, his popularity had been going down ever since he turned evil. Maybe Kishi wanted to save his character. Either way 627 though not bad for NS still came out of left field.

Unlikely true, because Sasuke is always in the top 5 in terms of popularity. Now, if only we can get Sakura up there...

[fireandice]

This.


Yeah, it really has. I blamed the last two arcs, especially HM arc. By god, talk about a sequel arc that only doing the same as the first one.

Yes, Naruto has more or less been consistently #2 right behind One Piece in manga sales. Only last year I think it was no 3 with Kuroko beating it. Bleach on the other hand has dropped quite a bit because of the HM arc, but Naruto's been quite steady.

I'm not sure if it's just down to popularity in light of this fact.

I do think Kishi perhaps wanted Sasuke's redemption to come about in a different manner than expected. I myself prefer it this way...I thought it's a bit shallow if Sasuke just needs a knock in the head from Naruto. I got the sense he needed much deeper closure considering how his descent to darkness is because of what Konoha did to him- which he got from Itachi, and to extent got from hearing the honest truth from the Hokages, who I guess sort of represent and embody the idea of Konoha itself.

hey the manga can still end with Sasuke vs. Naruto. they're both genin still technically so CHUUNIN EXAMS XD

Edited by fireandice, 11 April 2013 - 01:46 AM.

[Fenris]

As long as this chapter didn't effect NaruSaku in any way (Didn't read it yet) I'm fine.

Did it?

Sounds more like SasuKarin.

Edited by Fenris, 11 April 2013 - 01:45 AM.

[That Uchiha]

Wow, this forum is really negative compared to everywhere else! Tumblr and the other Naruto forums are having a celebration!

Anyway, my thoughts on the chapter.

It was amazing, omg. Sasuke, my prince, you're perfect!

Sasuke is going to be redeemed.

Redeemed.

and not because of Naruto, I'm so happy!

I can't contain my feels, gahhh, when I first read it I screamed, omg am I in genjustu.
Team 7 can be together again, its just too much. Thank you Kishi!

And the Taka reunion.

KARIN, NOOO. THAT'S NOT HOW ITS SUPPOSED TO BE.
DON'T HUG HIM OMG
KICK HIM IN THE BALLS FIRST
ASDFGHJKL;

It was so cute! I wasn't expecting SK to be so comical, but the more I read it the more I like it!
They're so perfect together it hurts.
Karin was cute and adorable and tsundare in front of everyone! AND SASUKE'S FACIAL EXPRESSIONS.




Karin makes him sweat! I like that as soon as he saw her he apologized. None was expecting him to apologized THAT FAST, he didn't even think about it and Karin didn't even finish her sentance! lol, and his face on the last panel! He looks so nervous like "what do I do".
He usually has a poker face, haha. I wonder if he was expecting Karin to hit him or something.
Sasuke's as oblivious as ever

Birds of a feather.

And the Kages, too epic for words! I loved how they stood on their faces!
And the incoming Naruto/Minato moments. I'm crying.
Naruto's going to be so happy to see Sasuke AND his Dad!
Sakura too! I can't wait for her to meet Sasuke again.
Ahhh, Team 7

That's probably what Kishi's been saving Sakura for! The upcoming SS reunion.

Kishimoto thank you, this has been one of the best chapters in awhile.
It brought the fandom together and everyone was so happy!
Amazing!

[Shadow1275]

Unlikely true, because Sasuke is always in the top 5 in terms of popularity. Now, if only we can get Sakura up there...

Good point, it just seemed like a lot of people were starting to dislike him because of his stabbing Karin and attacking Sakura and Naruto. Though its hard to figure out what Kishi has in mind at this point.

[Fenris]

Wow, this forum is really negative compared to everywhere else! Tumblr and the other Naruto forums are having a celebration!

Anyway, my thoughts on the chapter.

It was amazing, omg. Sasuke, my prince, you're perfect!

Sasuke is going to be redeemed.

Redeemed.

and not because of Naruto, I'm so happy!

I can't contain my feels, gahhh, when I first read it I screamed, omg am I in genjustu.
Team 7 can be together again, its just too much. Thank you Kishi!

And the Taka reunion.

KARIN, NOOO. THAT'S NOT HOW ITS SUPPOSED TO BE.
DON'T HUG HIM OMG
KICK HIM IN THE BALLS FIRST
ASDFGHJKL;

It was so cute! I wasn't expecting SK to be so comical, but the more I read it the more I like it!
They're so perfect together it hurts.
Karin was cute and adorable and tsundare in front of everyone! AND SASUKE'S FACIAL EXPRESSIONS.




Karin makes him sweat! I like that as soon as he saw her he apologized. None was expecting him to apologized THAT FAST, he didn't even think about it and Karin didn't even finish her sentance! lol, and his face on the last panel! He looks so nervous like "what do I do".
He usually has a poker face, haha. I wonder if he was expecting Karin to hit him or something.
Sasuke's as oblivious as ever

Birds of a feather.

And the Kages, too epic for words! I loved how they stood on their faces!
And the incoming Naruto/Minato moments. I'm crying.
Naruto's going to be so happy to see Sasuke AND his Dad!
Sakura too! I can't wait for her to meet Sasuke again.
Ahhh, Team 7

That's probably what Kishi's been saving Sakura for! The upcoming SS reunion.

Kishimoto thank you, this has been one of the best chapters in awhile.
It brought the fandom together and everyone was so happy!
Amazing!

'
Sasuke's facial expression is seriously SO cute!