19964 replies to this topic

[Turson]

No I want naruto to take down tobi without because kages will take down madara and sasuke and itachi will take down kabuto

As for now, Itachi was doing the majority of the job. The only useful thing Sasuke done was protecting Itachi with Amaterasu shield. Not to mention, that this is Itachis technique that is going to stop Kabuto, if not, it will be his talk no jutsu. Naruto, on the other hand, has already pwned Zetsus army and took away Bijuus from Tobi. Sasuke has very good reason to turn against Tobi. In fact, he already has, coming out of his hideout and killing Zetsu. He never was fond of the guy, moreover he dont even know that it was Tobi being responsible of Kyuubis attack.

Edited by Turson, 20 April 2012 - 04:18 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

There may be some drama, but that doesnt mean Sasuke will die. Going by your logic, Sakura shouldnt even come close to Naruto now, since Tobi might kill her. Fact is, Kishimoto dont like to kill even his side characters, let alone main characters.

No. No. No. That's not my logic at all. Have you guys been reading what I typed or just skimmed it?

I even gave an example where Sasuke doesn't die, gets redeemed, but doesn't get seen as a hero either. Naruto fulfills all his goals and promises and gets the girl(Sakura). I also said that Naruto and Sasuke team up to fight Tobi and win the day with Sasuke saying he needs to find his place in the world and leaves forever. We get the fight, we get the development where Sasuke starts to rethink his life, we get the pro-NS moment that makes it canon, we get Sasuke's redemption, we get a team 7 team up again, and noon is belittled or looked down upon nor has a tragic moment, and taking Ciardha's theory of Sasuke leaving the village forever alive.

You guys said this was wishful thinking and too hypothetical and that would leave Naruto in a tragic state of existence cause Sasuke refuses to stay in Konoha.

A happy ending that is written poorly is more disappointing than a sad ending written really well. The fact that all of a sudden without causality Sasuke turns good again with no fighting or drama is the worse type of cop-out and ass-pull that this manga will ever have. There has to be something. I give Kishimoto too much credit to pull that kind of ass-pull just for the sake of Sasuke coming back to the village as a good guy.

As I said, I don't really care what happens to Sasuke. I just don't want him seen as THE hero because he is not, but if we follow what you guys want that's how it is going to turn out. He is going to be the hero of the manga, NOT Naruto and that is bullcrap. Especially when he has no intentions of being the hero at all.

He caused half the problems in this manga and traumatized both Naruto and Sakura for years on end with no regret or remorse. Now I am going to ask this: Do you care about Sasuke's character at all or is it that you just want NaruSaku to not be diminished in anyway? I am trying to look at Sasuke as a character with development not just how it reflects on my pairing choice.

Kishimoto has been hinting at a Naruto vs Sasuke fight for a long time. Since Part 1: Sasuke wants to fight Naruto the most. The fact that both Naruto and Sasuke are descendants of the two brothers and the fact that Tobi pointed out that the fight between the two brothers is fate is a good clue. What happens after the fight can happen in any way, but this fight is coming. To say that it won't occur is just ignorant of itself and there is going to be drama in this fight to boot. That's the process this manga has. Naruto fights the enemy, they talk it over, and the villain either changes their way, kills themselves, goes down fighting, or self-sacrifices.

BTW, bringing up Vegeta and Bulma is a terrible example and we have discussed this to death on why it is a terrible example. Mostly because it was not done because the author wanted it, he did it to troll the fans. Plus Vegeta is an anti-hero...Sasuke is not.

I think I'm done. We can't agree. We can't accept that some things might happen and we can't seem to find a middle ground. In the end, it is up to Kishimoto how he is going to handle it. I am not going to pretend and expect that this manga will have a super-mega-ultra happy ending because people will be disappointed if it didn't. I just want an ending that makes sense with NaruSaku being the canon pairing. I don't really care how it is achieved so long as it is written well and makes sense.

I am reminded of the Wolfwood and Vash's conversation where Wolfwood tells Vash that it's not always going to be so simple and not everyone is going to turn good and the ending of that manga is similar to how I see Naruto ending.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 20 April 2012 - 04:58 PM.

[Turson]

I even gave an example where Sasuke doesn't die, gets redeemed, but doesn't get seen as a hero either.

Did I ever said that Sasuke will be seen as a hero? Nope. But that he will redeem himself you can take for granted. Itachi has already softened his up. When Itachi proclaimed that hes still Konohas ninja, Sasuke didnt react with fury, but with consternation. And Itachi didnt even answer to Sasukes questions yet. Rest will be up to Naruto. And obviously, they will fight.

Edited by Turson, 20 April 2012 - 04:56 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

Did I ever said that Sasuke will be seen as a hero? Nope. But that he will redeem himself you can take for granted. Itachi has already softened his up. When Itachi proclaimed that hes still Konohas ninja, Sasuke didnt react with fury, but with consternation. And Itachi didnt even answer to Sasukes questions yet. Rest will be up to Naruto.

Never said you did specifically, but some people do.

Consternation?
A state of paralyzing dismay. Anxiety.

Maybe, but this could also go the other way and piss Sasuke off even more. Just like how Tobi told the story of the Uchiha Massacre. So many variables.

And obviously, they will fight.

And obviously, there will be drama. Like I said: unavoidable.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I got to say, you guys put up a great debate. Few words from me.

About Sasuke, Naruto must fight him in order to finally wake up and understand all the wrongdoings. Itachi already established that it must be Naruto to end his darkness. As for redemption, I can see it happening, BUT, the thing is redemption is a huge challenge on Kishi to make it plausible. Best option is to have him turn good, BUT does not return to the village. If anything and if anything, if his team taka returns alive, it is possible that he will return to them and act like rogue ninjas. Not sure if I can't say it here, but another manga did that, so I will just leave it there.

As for NaruSaku, making this pairing official will be the most rewarding accomplishment on Naruto's part, and I'm not saying it because I love this pairing. Sakura started off hate on Naruto and to ends with her in love with him is like a huge achievement. To make it more rewarding, Naruto managed to change her feeling from Sasuke, who she is in love, to him, and Naruto didn't even push it. He let the flow go. It's not like Naruto was going "Oh great! Sasuke is gone! Time to constantly show off my coolness." This reward is like beating very hard difficulty in Ninja Gaiden. I am not trying to say that she's a trophy to Naruto. The point is that Naruto is a hard worker and you know what they say, slow and steady wins the race.

[Jake]

As for NaruSaku, making this pairing official will be the most rewarding accomplishment on Naruto's part, and I'm not saying it because I love this pairing. Sakura started off hate on Naruto and to ends with her in love with him is like a huge achievement. To make it more rewarding, Naruto managed to change her feeling from Sasuke, who she is in love, to him, and Naruto didn't even push it. He let the flow go. It's not like Naruto was going "Oh great! Sasuke is gone! Time to constantly show off my coolness." This reward is like beating very hard difficulty in Ninja Gaiden. I am not trying to say that she's a trophy to Naruto. The point is that Naruto is a hard worker and you know what they say, slow and steady wins the race.

I agree with you 100% here.


My thoughs about the Naruto-Sasuke Fight. I think that it will be the last fight in the manga and that by that time Tobi will be dead.
As for what happens to Sasuke, I don't really care if he dies or not but if he lives then I would like for him to be found by Taka after being sent flying off the battlefield by Naruto and I want them to find Sasuke when he is almost dead, and I want Sasuke to ether return to the Sound Village and rebuild it or become a wanderer.

[TerrorKing]

I also believe that Sasuke will eventually be redeemed, but I do not think that he will be hailed as a hero or anything like that. Most likely he will pull a Darth Vader and turn good at the 11th hour (after reciving a heavy beating from Naruto) and then help with defeating Tobi or Kabuto or whoever the final villain might be. Whether he dies at the end is not really important. What is important is that he somehow redeems himself. If Naruto can at least manage to get rid of the hate in Sasuke's that, then it will be mission accomplished.

Edited by TerrorKing, 20 April 2012 - 07:46 PM.

[T XD]

Dont you think it would be simply too tragic for Naruto to kill a man he regards a brother?

naruto won't kill voluntarily sasuke that for sure XD but it may be like naruto and sasuke are fighting then in the end there is a blow or something which it can be from naruto or not and if it is from naruto then it will be like , how can i put this , like something has been done accidentally (not literally accidentally if you know what i mean) but has ended sasuke's life from the battle they had but i doubt that sasuke will die it's like 40% to 47% that could happen and i really hope that he won't die

[lord287]

I agree with you 100% here.


My thoughs about the Naruto-Sasuke Fight. I think that it will be the last fight in the manga and that by that time Tobi will be dead.
As for what happens to Sasuke, I don't really care if he dies or not but if he lives then I would like for him to be found by Taka after being sent flying off the battlefield by Naruto and I want them to find Sasuke when he is almost dead, and I want Sasuke to ether return to the Sound Village and rebuild it or become a wanderer.

I really think it will be the second last fight if kishimoto is thinking for 10 tails to make an appearance! I myself really want 10 tails to fight naruto in the end because it is the only possible way naruto can be regarded really as SO6P! Their is also so much heat where first kurama said this is sage of six paths and now all of bijuus are saying that SO6P was talking about naruto! So i really look forward for 10 tails and also an appearance of SO6P! after all it has chances but killer bee will have to die which I don't want and don't think their is enough time for eight tails to be sealed! So quite confused whether 10 tails will come or not! But it ill be good fight if 10 tails appear and naruto saves the world from him!

[The Tax-Man]

I really think it will be the second last fight if kishimoto is thinking for 10 tails to make an appearance! I myself really want 10 tails to fight naruto in the end because it is the only possible way naruto can be regarded really as SO6P! Their is also so much heat where first kurama said this is sage of six paths and now all of bijuus are saying that SO6P was talking about naruto! So i really look forward for 10 tails and also an appearance of SO6P! after all it has chances but killer bee will have to die which I don't want and don't think their is enough time for eight tails to be sealed! So quite confused whether 10 tails will come or not! But it ill be good fight if 10 tails appear and naruto saves the world from him!

10 tails probably wont appear, at least I think. To sum up my position, I had a debate with Omega once about it I believe. I can't find it, but I think all the development between Naruto and Kurama would be pointless to have it extracted. Even more so now that over ten years of development have been devoted to it and they seem to be becoming friends.

Edited by The Tax-Man, 21 April 2012 - 04:09 AM.

[lord287]

10 tails probably wont appear, at least I think. To sum up my position, I had a debate with Omega once about it I believe. I can't find it, but I think all the development between Naruto and Kurama would be pointless to have it extracted. Even more so now that over ten years of development have been devoted to it and they seem to be becoming friends.

Actually kurama won't get extracted because tobi already got kinkaku or ginkaku in the gourd of sage of six paths! And i think that kishi made tobi take that gourd from allied shinobi forces because he is planning to make 10 tails appear without kurama getting extracted or naruto dying(I don't think he would have died even if kurama got extracted though because he is an UZUMAKI!)

He caused half the problems in this manga and traumatized both Naruto and Sakura for years on end with no regret or remorse. Now I am going to ask this: Do you care about Sasuke's character at all or is it that you just want NaruSaku to not be diminished in anyway? I am trying to look at Sasuke as a character with development not just how it reflects on my pairing choice.

Kishimoto has been hinting at a Naruto vs Sasuke fight for a long time. Since Part 1: Sasuke wants to fight Naruto the most. The fact that both Naruto and Sasuke are descendants of the two brothers and the fact that Tobi pointed out that the fight between the two brothers is fate is a good clue. What happens after the fight can happen in any way, but this fight is coming. To say that it won't occur is just ignorant of itself and there is going to be drama in this fight to boot. That's the process this manga has. Naruto fights the enemy, they talk it over, and the villain either changes their way, kills themselves, goes down fighting, or self-sacrifices.

I think I'm done. We can't agree. We can't accept that some things might happen and we can't seem to find a middle ground. In the end, it is up to Kishimoto how he is going to handle it. I am not going to pretend and expect that this manga will have a super-mega-ultra happy ending because people will be disappointed if it didn't. I just want an ending that makes sense with NaruSaku being the canon pairing. I don't really care how it is achieved so long as it is written well and makes sense.

I don't really care how sasuke turns out in the end because like most of the manga he will definitely get a free pass or at least he won't be punished that badly like imprisonment or something like that! Although I do care that narusaku doesn't get diminished but it comes for me only as a free thing to naruto gaining victory over sasuke in their fight! Well it have chances of having mega-ultra happy ending if not super-mega-ultra happening but the thing I just care about in naruto vs sasuke fight is naruto beating crap out of sasuke! I will be very happy to see sasuke die but that way naruto will have toface his biggest fail which I don't think will happen! I also don't think sasuke will be made the hero anywhere now! The most heroic thing as I said before also is he gives naruto his eyes to fight someone strong like 10 tails or tobi if he becomes 10 tails jinchuriki!

I truly don't think sasuke will die fighting naruto because naruto will never let it happen and I also don't think naruto will die fighting sasuke! I also don't want sasuke getting redeemed but because this is just a story and not real life their are many chances that sasuke gets redeemed! By making this post I only wanted to tell I also want the story to have a sensible ending with narusaku being canon but everything might not be as sensible as u r wishing it to be! Thee can be many incidents where it will not make sense at all which might also include sasuke coming back to village(just because naruto and itachi were finally able to put sense in him) and heck even SS happening!

EVERYTHING CAN'T END OUT TO BE VERY SENSIBLE JAMES, BELIEVE IT!

Edited by lord287, 21 April 2012 - 05:31 AM.

[Jake]

Actually kurama won't get extracted because tobi already got kinkaku or ginkaku in the gourd of sage of six paths! And i think that kishi made tobi take that gourd from allied shinobi forces because he is planning to make 10 tails appear without kurama getting extracted or naruto dying(I don't think he would have died even if kurama got extracted though because he is an UZUMAKI!)

If Kurama was extracted from Naruto he would die, just not right away like Kushina.
When Minato and Kushina were facing Kurama, Kushina knew she was not going to survive the night, I think it was stated in the chapter but I'm not 100% I'll have to re-read it.

[lord287]

If Kurama was extracted from Naruto he would die, just not right away like Kushina.
When Minato and Kushina were facing Kurama, Kushina knew she was not going to survive the night, I think it was stated in the chapter but I'm not 100% I'll have to re-read it.

Oh, if that is the case I don't want kurama extracted but I don't think naruto will die if he gets kurama extracted just like SO6P didn't die after extracting the 10 tails but died a little bit later! Moreover their is no need for kurama to get extracted to revive 10 tails as i said. tobi already has kinkaku or ginkaku(don't know which one) but yeah killer bee will have to die which I don't want(although I want 10 tails to fight naruto) because it will be again something where naruto looses someone close and similar to himself!

[Jake]

Oh, if that is the case I don't want kurama extracted but I don't think naruto will die if he gets kurama extracted just like SO6P didn't die after extracting the 10 tails but died a little bit later! Moreover their is no need for kurama to get extracted to revive 10 tails as i said. tobi already has kinkaku or ginkaku(don't know which one) but yeah killer bee will have to die which I don't want(although I want 10 tails to fight naruto) because it will be again something where naruto looses someone close and similar to himself!

I think that the SO6P had a similer case to Kushina's but I think that he still had the 10 tails during Kurama's flashback, I think he used his Rinnegan and the 10 tails' chakra to create the tailed beasts and after that sealed the rest of the 10 tails into the moon.

Also I think that because that the 10 tails could break free of it's seal ether by chakra gathered by Tobi or by the 10 Tails recovering chakra on it's own or both the result would be a 10 tails that is not at full power but I still think that it would be far stronger the Naruto and Kurama alone.

And I think that if this fight happens before the Naruto-Sasuke fight that it would add more to the drama because Naruto and Kurama would both be starting to run low on chakra. Plus if I remember right Kishi said that the Naruto-Sasuke Fight will be the final fight but I could very well be mistaken.

[LinksmaLope]

I found two anti-NaruSaku argument counter thingies at livejournal.If somebody wants to read it i'll post the links.Basically what i'm trying to ask here is if you see anything bias in them? My english is quite poor so it's hard to find them myself...I'm also not sure if i should ask this in the debetes.

First Link Second Link

IMO the author of the post is clearly trying to keep everything bias-proof

[Codus N]

I am reminded of the Wolfwood and Vash's conversation where Wolfwood tells Vash that it's not always going to be so simple and not everyone is going to turn good and the ending of that manga is similar to how I see Naruto ending.

Really?? as far as I can remember, that manga had a pretty happy sunshine ending. Unless you're talking about the anime though... and several of the Gung-Ho Guns' fates....

[lord287]

I think that the SO6P had a similer case to Kushina's but I think that he still had the 10 tails during Kurama's flashback, I think he used his Rinnegan and the 10 tails' chakra to create the tailed beasts and after that sealed the rest of the 10 tails into the moon.

Also I think that because that the 10 tails could break free of it's seal ether by chakra gathered by Tobi or by the 10 Tails recovering chakra on it's own or both the result would be a 10 tails that is not at full power but I still think that it would be far stronger the Naruto and Kurama alone.

And I think that if this fight happens before the Naruto-Sasuke fight that it would add more to the drama because Naruto and Kurama would both be starting to run low on chakra. Plus if I remember right Kishi said that the Naruto-Sasuke Fight will be the final fight but I could very well be mistaken.

well I don't think any of ten tails chakra was in sage of six paths otherwise after his death 10 tails must have reappeared even if not very strong but still reappeared! And i can't imagine him sealing the rest of chakra of 10 tails into moon, that is kind of absurd idea!

I think this fight be later than naruto-sasuke fight because naruto will defeat 10 tails only with help of kurama (at least i want no one else to help him) and maybe prayers of his friends including a normal sasuke(who considers naruto his friend again and gave up on revenge) because naruto has to defeat 10 tails if it appears and if he does so he wil be considered as strong or even stronger for some reason than sage of six paths! And i can't imagine kishi putting sasuke again to par with naruto if he becomes as strong as sage of six paths! I really want only naruto to save the world in the end and become the only hero of managa and not with sasuke and also naruto has to become strongest in the end and i don't think beating sasuke will give him title of strongest, but beating 10 tails will surely give him that title! I just don't want naruto dying in the end because I will be definitely sad because Naruto won't be able to fulfil his dream of hokage and well narusaku won't become canon as well(if kishi is thinking of making it canon that is, but we might have to see SS in an epilogue since naruto died, which I really don't want ). So any ending where naruto becomes strongest in the end, beat sasuke also and narusaku becomes canon is best ending for me! I don't care if he is able to do so without beating 10 tails or doing anyhing else but it seems this might be the only way to gain title of strongest! I also don't care about sasuke's redemption if it doesn't affect any of the top mentioned things I want to happen but clearly as I think him getting redeemed will definitely make narusaku in very dangerous situation, which might make sasusaku to happen(leaving naruto alone without sakura), also which I don't want but if narusaku happen after sasuke getting redeemed it will be one of the best canon pairings in manga world for me atleast

moreover kishi said that sasuke vs naruto will be one of final fights and not definitely final fight!

Edited by lord287, 21 April 2012 - 06:26 PM.

[ciardha]

Naruto asks if Sasuke is going to stay and he says "I don't belong here. It's time for me to find a home of my own." Naruto smiles and Sasuke leaves. We can even have Karin follow him and they are never heard from again. While Naruto becomes Hokage and that is the end.

I think this ending would please everyone, don't you think?

The one part I wouldn't see Kishimoto doing is the "Sasuke is never seen again" part. Remember Sasuke does have that intense bond to Naruto, and Kishimoto has pretty much spelled it out multiple times that bond will be the key to his redemption. Rather than never seen again, I think Kishimoto will have Sasuke occasionally stopping by Konoha to visit with Naruto- and pass along information about what is going on in other countries, ala what Jiraiya did for Hiruzen, Minato, Tsunade.

[Jake]

well I don't think any of ten tails chakra was in sage of six paths otherwise after his death 10 tails must have reappeared even if not very strong but still reappeared! And i can't imagine him sealing the rest of chakra of 10 tails into moon, that is kind of absurd idea!

According to the legend the Sage of Six Paths had used Chibaku Tensei to imprison the physical remains of the Ten-Tails into a giant stone that he hurled into the heavens, creating the moon, Pain even said something about this when he used the technique on Naruto when he went Six-Tails.

I think this fight be later than naruto-sasuke fight because naruto will defeat 10 tails only with help of kurama (at least i want no one else to help him) and maybe prayers of his friends including a normal sasuke(who considers naruto his friend again and gave up on revenge) because naruto has to defeat 10 tails if it appears and if he does so he wil be considered as strong or even stronger for some reason than sage of six paths! And i can't imagine kishi putting sasuke again to par with naruto if he becomes as strong as sage of six paths! I really want only naruto to save the world in the end and become the only hero of managa and not with sasuke and also naruto has to become strongest in the end and i don't think beating sasuke will give him title of strongest, but beating 10 tails will surely give him that title! I just don't want naruto dying in the end because I will be definitely sad because Naruto won't be able to fulfil his dream of hokage and well narusaku won't become canon as well(if kishi is thinking of making it canon that is, but we might have to see SS in an epilogue since naruto died, which I really don't want ). So any ending where naruto becomes strongest in the end, beat sasuke also and narusaku becomes canon is best ending for me! I don't care if he is able to do so without beating 10 tails or doing anyhing else but it seems this might be the only way to gain title of strongest! I also don't care about sasuke's redemption if it doesn't affect any of the top mentioned things I want to happen but clearly as I think him getting redeemed will definitely make narusaku in very dangerous situation, which might make sasusaku to happen(leaving naruto alone without sakura), also which I don't want but if narusaku happen after sasuke getting redeemed it will be one of the best canon pairings in manga world for me atleast

moreover kishi said that sasuke vs naruto will be one of final fights and not definitely final fight!

The main reason I want the Naruto-Sasuke fight to be the last is becaues I think that it's fitting that the hero face his rival last, but that's just me.

[Paptala]

Sasuke getting redeemed is a near certainty - not doing so wouldn't fit with Kishimoto's storyline thus far, and it would be a major failing for Naruto's character. It's just /how/ Sasuke is going to be redeemed that's the question.

a) Sasuke is redeemed through death
b) Sasuke lives, but doesn't return to Konoha (i.e. the wandering "Kenshin" route)
c) Saasuke lives, returns to Konoha (highly unrealistic and hard to swallow, but given Kishi's history w/ ridiculously happy endings *coughmassresurectionpeinarc*)

Either way, Sasuke redemption =/= SasuSaku by any stretch of the imagination.

First, Sasuke has shown zero signs of having romantic feelings for Sakura in the entire series. At most, he was appreciative of her friendship and of her as a team mate. Second, there have been multiple instances of Sakura's feelings for Sasuke being portayed as negative or wavering/weak (i.e. chapter 540 or her being willing to give up on Sasuke at the hospital after the fight at valley of the end).

Naruto and Sakura have so much going for them, and Sasuke and Hinata honestly just seem like speed bumps and obstacles Kishi planted in the way of the NS relationship in order to have more drama in the manga. Given the ridiculously lopsided amount of attention and emphasis has been given to Naruto and Sakura's relationship in comparison to Naruto and Hinata's or Sasuke and Sakura's, this seems to be the most logical assumption. Regardless of anything, there's no doubt that Naruto and Sakura's relationship is one of the most important in this story.

Edited by Paptala, 21 April 2012 - 10:40 PM.