54213 replies to this topic

[Shashank95]

 

How so? How is investing tens of thousands of hours NOT committed? 

Nope. Writing a good, consistent story, develop more than just two characters. Provide backstory and lore on more than just one kittening clan (read "Uchihas"), make characters attain powerups that actually fits into the established norms rather than just pulling random powers out of his ass and then give it only one clan, prevent retarded power creeps. Doing all that makes a writer committed.

Edited by Shashank95, 11 October 2017 - 12:01 PM.

[Shashank95]

 

Okay, first off, this has nothing to do with commitment. You can spend tens of thousands of hours and still only produce mediocre content. 

 

Secondly, he did develop more than just two characters, and gave lore on more than just one clan, objectively so

 

 

 

I'm not sure if you know what plot hole or inconsistency mean.

 

For example, Toneri, Momoshiki, and Kinshiki were not mentioned because they were simply not known to the characters involved. None of these are contradictory to things, they're NEW information, to all involved. 

 

Second, who in the world doesn't have chakra? While not everyone is a ninja, everyone has chakra. It's not far from it's spritual asian roots in being about spritual energy. The part you mention is also solely anime (Naruto Shippuden 461) about Kaguya using Tsukiyomi early on. 

 

Lastly, it was established the moon was very different than our moon. Considering people lived up there before, we can concur it's a moon you can breathe on. It's also assumed Toneri missed? That can happen. 

 

Umm, you do not miss out on a family member when he clearly established the ootsutsuki family in the manga. Them not being known to the present world characters is one thing but Hagoromo not mentioning is a big plot hole. He basically made up a character with the Byakugan so he could bring the spotlight on Hinata. If that isn't kitten tier, inconsistent writing, not sure what is.

It has been stated in the manga that Hagoromo was the one who gave chakra to all people. Before Kaguya's defeat no one had chakra. Chakra itself came from the Shinju tree and Kaguya wanted it for herself. Your lack of knowledge in these parts makes me question your already non-existent credibility. She hated her children for actually giving chakra to the humans.

And it was shown as Naruto taking Toneri's hit head on. Nardo could barely tank Sauce's Susanoo swings head on but lo and behold, Nardo can now teleport to moon and kittening block attacks that split the moon in half. How the flippin kitten can you justify breathing on the moon? Are you really that ignorant?

I've seen kitten fanfictions with better escalation than that. So kindly stop trying to claim Kishi's work isn't full of plotholes and inconsistencies.

[TheFirstEvil100]

 

Umm, you do not miss out on a family member when he clearly established the ootsutsuki family in the manga. Them not being known to the present world characters is one thing but Hagoromo not mentioning is a big plot hole. He basically made up a character with the Byakugan so he could bring the spotlight on Hinata. If that isn't kitten tier, inconsistent writing, not sure what is.

It has been stated in the manga that Hagoromo was the one who gave chakra to all people. Before Kaguya's defeat no one had chakra. Chakra itself came from the Shinju tree and Kaguya wanted it for herself. Your lack of knowledge in these parts makes me question your already non-existent credibility. She hated her children for actually giving chakra to the humans.

And it was shown as Naruto taking Toneri's hit head on. Nardo could barely tank Sauce's Susanoo swings head on but lo and behold, Nardo can now teleport to moon and kittening block attacks that split the moon in half. How the flippin kitten can you justify breathing on the moon? Are you really that ignorant?

I've seen kitten fanfictions with better escalation than that. So kindly stop trying to claim Kishi's work isn't full of plotholes and inconsistencies.

Plus this is not DC Marvel or Dragon ball which says why some can breath in space hell I've created a character that can breath is space only for 5 min mind you but I explain how and why this can happen.

 

With Superman we know why he can breath in space same with other DC characters.

 

The same can be said with Marvel as well as mnay either have suites or are robots that don't need air to beath or are god like Aliens.

 

Frieza and others in DB well with that it is harder but as MasakoX said they can have Ki around them but that too would not last long.

 

So ones like Naruto and the others would all die the moment they got into space, even Doctor Who knows this the 12th Doctor went blind because of it.

[Shashank95]

Plus this is not DC Marvel or Dragon ball which says why some can breath in space hell I've created a character that can breath is space only for 5 min mind you but I explain how and why this can happen.

 

With Superman we know why he can breath in space same with other DC characters.

 

The same can be said with Marvel as well as mnay either have suites or are robots that don't need air to beath or are god like Aliens.

 

Frieza and others in DB well with that it is harder but as MasakoX said they can have Ki around them but that too would not last long.

 

So ones like Naruto and the others would all die the moment they got into space, even Doctor Who knows this the 12th Doctor went blind because of it.

Frieza and DB characters have the excuse of being aliens. Naruto being able to breath on the moon is just pure kitteny. Kishi can't keep his timeline and writing in order. Dude literally doesn't keep track of what he's writing.

The show went from child soldiers using actual tactics to try and overcome experienced adult soldiers to a DBZ wannabe with the whole "Hey I got a new powerup, now I can blow a mountain to pieces" and "That's cute, I can create Moons out of the earth with my magic eye power! Fear me mortal" type kitten.

And not to mention the retarded way the Sharingan was haxed out. kittening piece of kitten ruined the whole manga. How do you go from giving faster perception (which was acceptable) to spouting fire (Acceptable with high difficulty) to creating giant armors out of thin air (Ummmm Wut?) to kittening altering reality itself (Cool story bruh. Dafaq is you smokin?!)

[Shashank95]

 

Why would Hagoromo know of Toneri's existence at all, considering he is a descendant of his brother? You are assuming through some logic that Hagoromo knows all. He -did- establish Ookutsuki but really not much more than immediate heritage (Kaguya, himself, Ashura/Indra and the reincarnation aspects), given that Sasuke and Naruto were his reincarnated sons, it makes sense that he sees them.

 

And on the Hagoromo giving chakra part, yes, that -is- correct, thus why everyone has it, as he intended it to be a way for people to understand eachother. Instead, they weaponized it. (Naruto Chapter 665, page 8 summarizes this) Thus, this is why everyone fell into the Tsukiyomi. No Chakra equals death. 

 

And -yes-, your issue with your moon argument is you fail to corroborate that the moon in Naruto is NOT like the moon we have. This one, for one, was literally created by the two brothers. (Naruto Fourth Databook, pages 216-217) You assume that the moon has the same rules as our moon. Considering that Hamura's clan -lived- on the moon, how do you think they survived too? I absolutely defend the moon is breathable, because it's well established that Naruto != Earth, and the Moon != Earth's Moon. This is the issue with TheFirstEvil's post too, because in much Marvel/DC comic material, the moon -is- our moon, and Earth -is- our earth, or likened to it. This is the danger of comparing material with blatantly different lore and rules. 

 

And Naruto surviving/defending/avoiding that is far more believable than Sasuke suddenly summoning hawks out of nowhere. It's not really pulled out of nowhere in Naruto's case, as he has, and ninja in general have, shown such avoiding abilities before through a variety of techniques, while the latter case is literally just pulling something out of nowhere. 

 

So ignorant? I think not.

 

And no, I defend against plot holes/inconsistencies because they really aren't what folks make them out to be, particularly at the end. This isn't to say there -aren't- inconsistencies or plot holes, but there's absolutely nothing major as you have presented and I have graciously rebutted. 

You forget the tiny teeny fact that iOotsutsuki are alien to Naruto's world? once again you prove my point. It's annoying debating with an ignoramus.

[Shashank95]

 

This makes no sense, considering that Naruto and the Uchiha and the Hyuuga descend from this clan. I do though, like that we move from making arguments to making insults. 

 

You're again assuming that because they are alien they don't need to breathe on the moon. You fail to critically think that -maybe- this moon has different rules in this fantasy world. 

Never explicitly stated that the moon is different. So you are just assuming that this moon surface is breathable. Hypocrisy.

[TheFirstEvil100]

Frieza and DB characters have the excuse of being aliens. Naruto being able to breath on the moon is just pure kitteny. Kishi can't keep his timeline and writing in order. Dude literally doesn't keep track of what he's writing.

The show went from child soldiers using actual tactics to try and overcome experienced adult soldiers to a DBZ wannabe with the whole "Hey I got a new powerup, now I can blow a mountain to pieces" and "That's cute, I can create Moons out of the earth with my magic eye power! Fear me mortal" type kitten.

And not to mention the retarded way the Sharingan was haxed out. kittening piece of kitten ruined the whole manga. How do you go from giving faster perception (which was acceptable) to spouting fire (Acceptable with high difficulty) to creating giant armors out of thin air (Ummmm Wut?) to kittening altering reality itself (Cool story bruh. Dafaq is you smokin?!)

Well you need to remember that near the end it all came to be about the Uchiha and their powers as well and just how great they are and also how sorry we need to feel sorry for them as well because they have had a hard life or that they love too much which is BS if you ask me.

 

And you other post its true iOotsutsuki are aliens so they can breath is space was not done right, mind you, if so that means its still the vacuum of space. I can say that the that the whole fight in space within the last was just stupid and dumb, yeah Naruto would be dying because their is no air for him to breath in, with iOotsutsuki well who knows how SP and Kishi are all like they can breath in space so just accept it is what they are saying.

 

Again my own character I have made his lungs have a hard casing in which he can keep air in their but this again only last 5 min 10 or more if he puts himself into a deep sleep.

[Shashank95]

 

The error with this is the assumption that being alien = can breathe in space, along with failing to understand that the moon's rules != our rules. Considering that laws of physics are disobeyed in the Naruto world, I'm uncertain why we are making exact comparisons to real life and saying this doesn't make sense. 

Laws of physics =/= Laws of Biology. We've seen people suffocating without air We've seen that the Moon has less gravity which means no atmosphere. The fact that you accept the the BS that Naruto can suddenly breathe in space is why I don't trust a word that comes out of your mouth. Good day.

[Kagomaru]

Laws of physics =/= Laws of Biology. We've seen people suffocating without air We've seen that the Moon has less gravity which means no atmosphere. The fact that you accept the the BS that Naruto can suddenly breathe in space is why I don't trust a word that comes out of your mouth. Good day.

 

Well you need to remember that near the end it all came to be about the Uchiha and their powers as well and just how great they are and also how sorry we need to feel sorry for them as well because they have had a hard life or that they love too much which is BS if you ask me.

 

And you other post its true iOotsutsuki are aliens so they can breath is space was not done right, mind you, if so that means its still the vacuum of space. I can say that the that the whole fight in space within the last was just stupid and dumb, yeah Naruto would be dying because their is no air for him to breath in, with iOotsutsuki well who knows how SP and Kishi are all like they can breath in space so just accept it is what they are saying.

 

Again my own character I have made his lungs have a hard casing in which he can keep air in their but this again only last 5 min 10 or more if he puts himself into a deep sleep.

The Last is full of plot holes that can make a person head spin.  Like, if the Kages possessed a super weapon that made tactical nukes look like popbottle rockets, why did they not use it against the Juubi in the Fourth Shinobi War? Because the movie makes up kitten for the sake of style and "coolness", not logical cohesion for the overall story of the series.

 

And Analyzer, stop trying to order people to be compliant sheep and not question anything.    People have been critiquing famous brain children of the media for years and will continue to so.  That's why we have critics and reviewers to begin with.  It doesn't matter if it's Stephen King, James Patterson, George Lucas, etc.  No one's work is flawless.

Edited by Kagomaru, 11 October 2017 - 05:08 PM.

[ultranx]

man is analyzer obsessed, its been almost half a year and he/she's still doing this mess.

[My Living Curse]

 

Well, why not? I enjoy what I do.

 

Oh you evil mastermind you! 

 

[My Living Curse]

 

 

I'll take the GIF as a compliment, considering the brilliance of the actor, film, and director. 

 

You're welcome!    

[sushi.]

Everytime I come back to this thread I think of this gif.

 

 

You should all tag yourself I'm the dead guy on the floor.

[My Living Curse]

Everytime I come back to this thread I think of this gif.

 

 

You should all tag yourself I'm the dead guy on the floor.

 

But do we still get that pizza? 

 

There's only 1 cure for this thread discussion! 

 

[lupina]

Everytime I come back to this thread I think of this gif.

 

 

You should all tag yourself I'm the dead guy on the floor.

 

In that case, I am the Pizza. Because I like Pizza. 

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Frieza and DB characters have the excuse of being aliens. Naruto being able to breath on the moon is just pure kitteny. Kishi can't keep his timeline and writing in order. Dude literally doesn't keep track of what he's writing.

The show went from child soldiers using actual tactics to try and overcome experienced adult soldiers to a DBZ wannabe with the whole "Hey I got a new powerup, now I can blow a mountain to pieces" and "That's cute, I can create Moons out of the earth with my magic eye power! Fear me mortal" type kitten.

And not to mention the retarded way the Sharingan was haxed out. kittening piece of kitten ruined the whole manga. How do you go from giving faster perception (which was acceptable) to spouting fire (Acceptable with high difficulty) to creating giant armors out of thin air (Ummmm Wut?) to kittening altering reality itself (Cool story bruh. Dafaq is you smokin?!)

And like I said before, at least with the Sharingan and Mangekyo Sharingan, Yahagi was smart enough to make sure there limitations and/or downsides to them that helped overall balance out their power.

Both of them using a lot of chakra (the Mangekyo using a lot more).

The normal Sharingan simply giving perception of time moving slower, not literally (hence why Lee was able to easily beat Sasuke even though Sasuke could see his moves - Sasuke himself simply not being able to physically keep up in real time, so being able to see Lee's moves was pointless). And even though they can copy how to use a jutsu they see others use, it's still up to themselves to actually be able to actually master it.

The Mangekyo Sharingan eventually resulting in inevitable blindness as soon as it's awakened while using it speeds up the process, and even something like Izanagi resulting in literal loss of use of the eye used to cast it (hence the eye closing) rather than mere blindness, while Izanami results in immediate blindness in the eye that casts it.

It was when they pulled the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan and the crap of it being able to become the Rinnegan and such that things just went out of control.

[My Living Curse]

And like I said before, at least with the Sharingan and Mangekyo Sharingan, Yahagi was smart enough to make sure there limitations and/or downsides to them that helped overall balance out their power.

Both of them using a lot of chakra (the Mangekyo using a lot more).

The normal Sharingan simply giving perception of time moving slower, not literally (hence why Lee was able to easily beat Sasuke even though Sasuke could see his moves - Sasuke himself simply not being able to physically keep up in real time, so being able to see Lee's moves was pointless). And even though they can copy how to use a jutsu they see others use, it's still up to themselves to actually be able to actually master it.

The Mangekyo Sharingan eventually resulting in inevitable blindness as soon as it's awakened while using it speeds up the process, and even something like Izanagi resulting in literal loss of use of the eye used to cast it (hence the eye closing) rather than mere blindness, while Izanami results in immediate blindness in the eye that casts it.

It was when they pulled the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan and the crap of it being able to become the Rinnegan and such that things just went out of control.

 

I agree, slow loss of sight into eventual blindness, was a pretty good penalty for using such power. I'll be honest, I loved the usage of Amaterasu and Tsukuynomi. They were powerful and feared but they exacted a heavy toll on the user. But then we get that Eternal silliness where you can use the MS at full power with no penalty at all. Oh and then we have the 50 foot glowing samurais. Oh and then apparently it turns into the Rinnegan and summons meteors! 

 

Which reminds me, why couldn't Pain/Nagato summon meteors? (I'm not talking about Planetary Devestation, as Madara plainly summons two meteors when he fights the Shinobi force).

 

Let me reverse that and ask this question as well. Why couldn't Madara use powers that Pain/Nagato used like Shinra Tensei and the other Deva Paths? Oh boy, don't you just love this stuff! 

[Phantom_999]

 
I feel like people just need to ask the right questions. 

 
Except you aren't questioning anything in the story itself, you are just dogmatically defending any criticism towards the series by saying any criticism is just reading it wrong and forming an OPINIONATED interpretation of the scenes presented towards you while presenting your opinions as fact.
 
Naruto suddenly marries Hinata? You decide Sakura was never meant to be the love interest. We ask why and HOW Hinata was always meant to be the love interest? you dodge the question and go on a spiel about how the development was always there and that Sakura and Naruto's relationship was only platonic, just because Kishimoto stated Hinata was meant to be the love interest from the beginning. Guess what? that doesn't work because of two major factors. first of all Naruto would be free to just pick and marry Hinata out of the blue without any development or social interaction if he was a typical shonen protagonist that is either chaste and oblivious to romance, or has no interest in it. That is the only way one can conceivably end up with anyone without story validation, like in Dragon Ball. BUT, Naruto has has a blatant romantic interest in Sakura from the beginning, so he is NOT chaste. Second, to move on from a first love to a second love, closure is required for the first love that will let the character move on to their second love, like in Cardcaptor Sakura. BUT Naruto did not did not move on from Sakura, judging by what was shown in the manga since he said Sakura was his girlfriend to Minato when he could have said no, point to Hinata and say THAT IS my girlfriend, and Sakura did not have a healthy relationship with Sasuke as her first love which was rectified in part II where he tries to kill her and belittles her usefulness quite a bit. Plus, "The Last" not only makes a superficial excuse that doesn't make sense, it also destroys Naruto's character and makes it seem he And Sakura were only using each other. but of course you're welcome to excuse that with as much brain gymnastics as you want. I'll be waiting. 
 
We say that the themes and morals of Naruto were dropped at the last second but you say that the it is fine and say everything was accomplished. RIGHT. So why is Naruto some sort of "Jesus" like figure that is supposed to stop war and conflict and achieve peace, Yet even after the world war the world system stays as it always has, and international conflicts still exist? and this is after Naruto promised Nagato to end war and conflict. Wow, Nagato would be SO GLAD to live in the current era because Naruto failed to change anything, am I right?  Why did Naruto tell Neji to stop acting like Destiny is a determined outcome, yet he (VERY ironically) has some sort of great destiny to stop hatred in the world and unify people which he, Naruto, Happily accepts and Neji dies to protect his identical cousin just like like his father did. So apparently you have your choices but your choices will still end up as the destiny you were meant to fulfill, and you can't fight fate just like Neji said. Glad to know   Naruto could do Kage Bunshin when he was 6 years old to protect his beloved future "waifu" Hinata from bullies, So what was the point of him getting that forbidden technique scroll from chapter one, and why did he fail the academy exam again and again? guess he must LOVE READING, and he WANTED to fail.  Why does Naruto neglect his family and tells his son that you have to put up with loneliness and neglect even though HE, Naruto was an orphan and never knew his parents? and no it is not because he is Hokage, and the job is consuming his time. Hizuren had time to go visit Konohamaru's class study at the Hokage monument and tell the class that he considers all of them his family and give them good life advice, and Tsunade had time to go drinking with Jiraiya when they brought up Kushina for the first time ever in the narrative. YES, they definitely were too busy to do those things.   
 
Oh and don't give me any excuses on how to NOT compare Naruto to other literature or fictional media because that is stating Naruto is  a special exception of storytelling which it is not. Stories have always  had similar writing structures and expectations because of the Eons/millennia/centuries Human beings have been telling them. Sure no story is exactly the same, but if structures, basic premises and themes were not SIMILAR, why do we have cliches then? Why do we have expectations on how a story is supposed to conclude? Your arguments don't sound convincing at all, even though you claim to be some sort of authority on literary study.

Edited by Phantom_999, 15 October 2017 - 11:49 PM.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

 

This makes no sense, considering that Naruto and the Uchiha and the Hyuuga descend from this clan. I do though, like that we move from making arguments to making insults. 

 

You're again assuming that because they are alien they don't need to breathe on the moon. You fail to critically think that -maybe- this moon has different rules in this fantasy world. 

 

  Ma'am I'm afraid that's all pure speculation and SP wants you to think that. SP themselves never made that clear. They had every intention to make people forget the original plot. For instance: Naruto already had the knowledge to perform KB jutstu at a very young age (to rescue Hinata from bullies) way before he was 12 years old (chapter/episode 1). The Director along with other SP staff claimed that they made a mistake on the manuscript. To me, that's inconclusive because the script of TL went through many hands and not one single individual spot errors or even make the effort to make the "possible" corrections. In all fairness, everyone has a right to believe in what they believe in. If you want to aprove and believe SP and Shuiesha's direction of the New Project Era. I have no problem with.

 

But don't presume that were are "assuming" without facts.

 

Other than that, good day to you, Ma'am 

[ThroughWithLove]

Making stuff up in response to a criticism of a story is not an example of "critical thinking." It's an example of glorified fanfiction and an example of being a fangirl.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 12 October 2017 - 12:48 AM.