54213 replies to this topic

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Then as we have asked countless times before...

Post manga panels showing and/or telling what you say is being said and/or shown instead of simply telling us what you want to believe / speculate is being shown and/or told. Show us precisely where it all is. You claim it's "obvious", but we clearly don't see what you claim is right in front of us, so point it out to us with actual manga panels.

Otherwise, if all you're going to do is keep talking, but never provide any such evidence to support that talk (your word alone is NOT evidence, much less "facts"), then it can only be assumed that what you're trying to say is false, or at the very least, only what you want to believe in your own mind and not what is actually being said and/or shown. If you continue to refuse to do so, then there is no point in continuing "debating" because debating without facts is pointless and you can't claim "facts" without evidence. Again, others have posted actual manga panels supporting what they have stated, but you have never done so, instead only doing nothing but continuously giving your interpretations and speculation of what you want to be true.
 

[VanitasDS76491]

id like to see him try though. just to see him fail and cry.

Ya if he had to deal with what happened in Vegas he'd fail hard. Plus the guy who did it offed himself.

[thelordofspace72]

 

Yes, as painful as it may be to hear. These two pairings grow into romantic relationships. NS doesn't. Even if Naruto did love Sakura romantically, and Sakura was considering shifting, does not change that the other pairings became romantic relationships. 

 

This is why really the discussion is a debate of execution, was it done well? It's not really about who fell in love with who. We know who did now, and we know who didn't. 

 

If you are arguing NS would be a better choice, I don't disagree. I -do- disagree for some of the reasons brought forward, I do not think it hurt the narrative at all to do the choice selected. But in terms of plain preference, I agree. 

 

 

This is silly. I'm just defending canon facts. 

 

Well, if you say you prefer SS + NH much more than NS. I do not find a convincing reason to make you NS FAN.

But the question is whether you will choose NS as the end of the manga or not (yes or no).

[NarutoUzumaki01]

Well, if you say you prefer SS + NH much more than NS. I do not find a convincing reason to make you NS FAN.

But the question is whether you will choose NS as the end of the manga or not (yes or no).

Just stop, person claimed, he/she was an NS fan, and literally does not accept things that was written in manga, talks about how both ending pairings has more development IN manga that NS has, and calls it all sorts of things but not what it was. All that matters is what is canon, and what said to be canon, even if it goes against source materail.

[NeonRanger]

I'm sorry, I hope this isn't rude, but there are parts of this debate that are pointless.

I'm sorry but none of the ships made sense in the end. This includes NaruSaku.

If NaruSaku had remotely made sense, why is the fandom so split then? Why are are we so widely divided between NaruSaku vs. NaruHina and SasuSaku?

I agree with Analyzer, in a sense.

For me, Kishi's biggest mistake was the love triangle. It was prolonged to the point where every ship had a chance for credible endgame.

At the top of my head, I can recall three points where NaruSaku had the opportunity to be "endgame" without actually being endgame.

Both NaruHina and SasuSaku aren't some loud minority; there is a reason why the NaruHina fandom suddenly grew in size after 436 and 615, and why SasuSaku remained dominate even with Part 2. Kishi gave them ammo just like he gave us ammo with NaruSaku.

[Kagomaru]

 

 

Well, if you say you prefer SS + NH much more than NS. I do not find a convincing reason to make you NS FAN.

But the question is whether you will choose NS as the end of the manga or not (yes or no).

 

Like NarutoUzumaki01 said,  it's fruitless to argue with this person on the matter.   She claims to be a N/S fan  but her callous  attitude and arguments against it, in spite of evidence that they were the intended pairing and their obvious compatibility, more than accentuate her distaste for them as a couple. 

Edited by Kagomaru, 05 October 2017 - 04:14 PM.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

If NaruSaku had remotely made sense, why is the fandom so split then? Why are are we so widely divided between NaruSaku vs. NaruHina and SasuSaku?

It's called opinions. Some into stalking, some into masochism and some into friendship.

[Illnevergiveup3]

exactly, not everyone believes Naruto should be with the woman HE loves even though he's the main character. They believe Hinata should get the one she likes, or as I say, I believe MOST people like SasuSaku ONLY because it would make NaruHina getting together much easier, with Sakura-Chan out of the way, Naruto "has no choice but to get with Hinata."

[NarutoUzumaki01]

Naruto also never loved Sakura. He had a crush, it faded, he moved on. He didn't move on to Hinata just because Sakura was "out of the way", or that he had no choice. (This fails to reconcile with the fact he had many fans post-699). 

 

Main character status is rather irrelevant to this point as well. 

Here we go again. It's so ironcial, that you have nickname of Analyzer 

[Yojeveka]

I'm sorry, I hope this isn't rude, but there are parts of this debate that are pointless.

I'm sorry but none of the ships made sense in the end. This includes NaruSaku.

If NaruSaku had remotely made sense, why is the fandom so split then? Why are are we so widely divided between NaruSaku vs. NaruHina and SasuSaku?

I agree with Analyzer, in a sense.

For me, Kishi's biggest mistake was the love triangle. It was prolonged to the point where every ship had a chance for credible endgame.

At the top of my head, I can recall three points where NaruSaku had the opportunity to be "endgame" without actually being endgame.

Both NaruHina and SasuSaku aren't some loud minority; there is a reason why the NaruHina fandom suddenly grew in size after 436 and 615, and why SasuSaku remained dominate even with Part 2. Kishi gave them ammo just like he gave us ammo with NaruSaku.

 

Of course NaruSaku is the only ship of those three that makes sense. Why are we so divided? SIMPLE: SP made Hinata a goddess by adding tons of fillers and fanservice. And then we have Sasuke, who's your typical cool-sexy-anti hero. NaruHina was widely popular even before Hinata's confession. And a large part of this fandom wanted to see their bad boy being happy, so he better get laid with the girl who's madly obssessed in love with him.

 

Oh! I almost forgot about our classical self inserts:

 

Hinata: Shy girl who wins her beloved's heart after struggling a lot/being ignored.

Sakura: Average good girl that ends up with the cold guy

Naruto: The lucky guy who gets a big breasted-sweet-perfect woman

Sasuke: The bastard cool guy who has every single girl -and boys- going nuts for him

 

That's it. Popularity. It doesn't change the fact that NaruSaku was the most developed couple and has every sense to be canon.  

[NarutoUzumaki01]

Where in the manga does Naruto say he loves Sakura though?

 

Would like to see it. I'd concede all of my points and agree that it was a retcon -if- that is proven true, because the depth of Naruto's feelings are never quantified that way. 

 

Before the ending, we could -speculate- it was love. But with 700, we cannot. That's the issue with the theory I'm debating against, it can never rise beyond at most speculation. Speculation isn't fact. New Information confirming something isn't a retcon. This is why I am arguing that this information is not being reconciled. 

I like how you pretend, that him talking Sai about confession to Sakura  didn't happend. I got perfectly clear, that analysing isn't your strong side, spare me from all the "facts" that comes from your head, not pages of manga. If you don't understand defenition of something as "love" in terms of story, not my problem. You can keep denying retcons and etc, no problems, calling on your bs is pretty easy. About retcons, to your "NH and SS is better developed" bs it goes this way:

[NarutoUzumaki01]

what is the NaruSaku development that you are talking about?

"I'm a pro NaruSaku"

Edited by NarutoUzumaki01, 05 October 2017 - 05:50 PM.

[Yojeveka]

 

Mainly just countering generalizations here:

 

SP did fanservice for everyone. I don't know why Hinata always gets singled out. I still hold that Team 8 still has the worst filler I've ever seen.

 

And some fans self-insert from all shipping groups, I wouldn't caricature it the way you do, it's just what fans do. 

 

Respectfully, what is the NaruSaku development that you are talking about?

 

Respecfully, read every single answer that this entire forum has given to you. I'm quite sure they had answered this several times already =)

[Kagomaru]

 

Of course NaruSaku is the only ship of those three that makes sense. Why are we so divided? SIMPLE: SP made Hinata a goddess by adding tons of fillers and fanservice. And then we have Sasuke, who's your typical cool-sexy-anti hero. NaruHina was widely popular even before Hinata's confession. And a large part of this fandom wanted to see their bad boy being happy, so he better get laid with the girl who's madly obssessed in love with him.

 

Oh! I almost forgot about our classical self inserts:

 

Hinata: Shy girl who wins her beloved's heart after struggling a lot/being ignored.

Sakura: Average good girl that ends up with the cold guy

Naruto: The lucky guy who gets a big breasted-sweet-perfect woman

Sasuke: The bastard cool guy who has every single girl -and boys- going nuts for him

 

That's it. Popularity. It doesn't change the fact that NaruSaku was the most developed couple and has every sense to be canon.  

And keep in mind that in Japan, NaruSaku was the majority of the fandom.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

Analyzer, on how many forums did you register by symply putting names of 2 random characters of manga called "Naruto" and pressing on first link? Just curious.

[Yojeveka]

And keep in mind that in Japan, NaruSaku was the majority of the fandom.

 

Unfortunately, they ignored Japan's fandom because of a crappy non-Japanese youtuber/"fans" 8D

[Kagomaru]

I like how you pretend, that him talking Sai about confession to Sakura  didn't happend. I got perfectly clear, that analysing isn't your strong side, spare me from all the "facts" that comes from your head, not pages of manga. If you don't understand defenition of something as "love" in terms of story, not my problem. You can keep denying retcons and etc, no problems, calling on your bs is pretty easy. About retcons, to your "NH and SS is better developed" bs it goes this way:

Oh God, sweet little Uiharu is Analyzer. Everything I know is wrong.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

This is silly. This is like an SH fan saying there's no Sasuke/Hinata development. 
 
Zero. I've thought of registering on the main Naruto forums but have never done so.

Now you're implying that NS never had a development at all, okay.
Well, you here not discussing anything positive about NS or it's dynamics, denying ANY development now it seems. Pushing "by canon never happend" button, and basicly accusing people of reading manga in a wnong way if they don't agree with your pov. I'm not sure, but that's pretty much can be considered trolling.

Oh God, sweet little Uiharu is Analyzer. Everything I know is wrong.

Sorry, idk who it is, it's just a picture from article about retcon.

Edited by NarutoUzumaki01, 05 October 2017 - 06:11 PM.

[Yojeveka]

Whoa, putting NS at SH's level? Seriously? Sorry. but even an anti NS can name a couple of meaningful moments between them. Asking about their development was just silly. And I don't feel like explaining something that my fellows already had. Several times. The fact I've been asked to explain why NS was the most developed ship shows that she haven't read nor cared about the other answers.

Edited by Yojeveka, 05 October 2017 - 06:14 PM.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

No, I was making a comparison, and showing how your statement doesn't make logical sense, given the example pairing has no development, yet one can -still- be considered a shipper. 
 
Factually, NS -does- develop, but it never develops beyond a close, if crucially important, platonic relationship, despite the beginnings of dislike from Sakura and one-sided crush from Naruto. Factually, it never blooms into full out love from canonically, either side. You have incomplete data you can make inferences of this, which many of us did, including myself, but by the end you cannot conclude with that inference, because now you have complete data. 
 
 
 
First part, see above. 
 
There are meaningful moments. My argument is that there is no development. I.E., for example, the ramen scene. It happens, it's a cute comedy moment, and has no weight beyond that moment.It's not built on. It's another example really of close friendship, shows that yes, Naruto likes her, but it doesn't really bear on any realization of love. Still waiting for someone to provide a panel in the manga that shows Naruto loves Sakura, even. 
 
As for the rest, Copy-paste their explanations, or do a quick summary. I'm countering because I'm legitimately expressing I've not seen it, I've seen claims but no one has spent the time to lay out the development that turns this into a romantic relationship as argued. 
 
Counter point: Perhaps I have read and replied to these answers, and understand none really illustrate or are about the point I am asking of you.

Still my point stands, you came here, not to discus NS, but to bash it "by canon" and implying your opinion as facts with "crush", "misunderstood" and etc, when either wasn't said in manga.
Again with your bs about canon love, when in manga nothing pictured Naruto having any feelings to Hinata, nor Sasuke having any feelins to Sakura. It's silly. You deny retcons, but stand on them.

Edited by NarutoUzumaki01, 05 October 2017 - 06:27 PM.