54216 replies to this topic

[Illnevergiveup3]

@Legend That gif that you have in your signature is perfect.

 

Kushina literally beat the Byakugan bloodline out of her.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

Analyzer, problem with your pov is you only bring selective facts. It's already clear that there is no critical thinking in here, you can't see ooc in clear scenes, only standing by "Kishinoto said" when he contradicted himself in interviews more times that SP re-did Hinata's confession.

Yes, Naruto does respect Sakura, her strength, and they have a close bond. But this is platonic. And while they are parts of a good relationship, nothing that is not made into a joke or a weightless tease really happens to make NS more, or Naruto's feelings more than a crush. And if it does, it's taken away as soon as it is presented.

And it's never been stated it was crush, he loved her, that is pointed out by manga.

[Kagomaru]

Analyzer, problem with your pov is you only bring selective facts. It's already clear that there is no critical thinking in here, you can't see ooc in clear scenes, only standing by "Kishinoto said" 

Which is why she seems more like a Pro-Kishimoto defender than just a typical NH/pro-ender when you take in the full context of her responses.  Kishimoto-sama is impeccable and omniscient in his writing.  There are no contradictions, backpeddling, lies, plot-holes or character assassinations as long as Kami-sama no Kishimoto decrees it! 

[NarutoUzumaki01]

Other people do, but they misunderstand.

Because you said so? Those scenes not even connected to each other.

[ThroughWithLove]

The first part is silly, because Kishimoto highlights the development himself in another databook *snip* 

 

Quit dodging the issue. I told you exactly what I meant by suddenly in my previous post. It has nothing to do with whether NH was developed well or not, so save your desire to change the subject for someone else. Naruto and Hinata suddenly got together after November 4th, 2014, one day BEFORE chapter 700 was released. Therefore, contextually speaking, until now is right before NH became canon.  So for the umpteenth time, we have ourselves a very simple query: Either you think Naruto's platonic relationship with Sakura came to a close or you're giving the databook the middle finger. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

 

 

Sakura brings up Naruto saying he loves her, but they were only because of Sasuke, I.E., shallow reasons of competition. 

This equates Crush, and is in line with chapter 3. "You once said you loved me just because you competed with Sasuke, the person who I love, didn't you?" is the line. Love + Shallow Reason points to a crush. This is quantified as such, and -then- she brings up what romantic love really is, and you see the difference. No Retcon done either, despite contrary postulations. 

 

It equates to crush because you say it does. Watch this little maneuver:

 

Bizarro Analyzer: Sakura brings up Naruto saying he loves her, but that was only because of Sasuke, I.E., Naruto's competition with him. 

This equates him being disturbingly obsessed with beating Sasuke and is in line with chapter 3 where he tries to make Sasuke look bad and steal a kiss from a girl who likes him. What makes Sakura so great is that through her, he can continue to fuel his mindless obsession with Sasuke. Sakura says"You once said you loved me just because you competed with Sasuke, the person who I love, didn't you?" is the line. Love + Competing with Sasuke (who he is obsessed with) points to being disturbingly obsessed with beating Sasuke. This is quantified as such, and -then- she brings up what romantic love really is, and you see the difference between actually loving somebody and merely being obsessed with some other dude. No Retcon done either, despite contrary postulations. 

 

Fanfiction is fun! 

 

This is the scene, quote Kishimoto, that "Naruto and Sakura do not have romantic interest in eachother". This does not clash with crush, as it is different. 

 

Problem is that the scene says nothing about a crush. The only thing you've done is say it does and get upset when people ask for a little more than your blind assurances that these scenes mean what you say they mean. And the more I think about it, your glorified fanfic doesn't even make sense; when I look back to all of the stories where one character starts dating another character simply for the sole purpose of making his/her ex jealous, it just makes me shake my head. I guess according to you, stuff like that constitutes a crush too. It's bizarre. It's silly. It's grasping. And it's indicative of how far you will go for your human pretzel routine.

 

A reversal of your own A or B here, are you ignoring early and later canon material and the databooks and interviews, or are you acknowledging this to be true? Even if we say the databook supports your interpretation, would this not be the clashing element amongst others that are in line? Perhaps, though, it is not the material, but the interpretation, which is factually incorrect. 

 

I'm not familiar with what I'm allegedly ignoring. If I'm ignoring anything, you're welcome to present it and I'll happily take it into account. Otherwise, your A or B falls apart as a result of you simply assuring me that Sakura was establishing that Naruto had a crush on her simply because you assure me she was and not for any reasons sourced and cited in any of the aforementioned material you reference.

 

 

I don't think "not interested" is the same as blatantly pursuing another. I'm not even dancing around the question.  Let's assume truth. Later scene: Here Naruto, you don't have to hold onto the promise, I return your feelings. This is Naruto's moment, as per his own words, to follow on. But instead he calls her out. What is off? 

 

The answer to -this- question is the answer to your other question, and is my point. Weak retort? I think not. Sasuke is the driver for the fake confession as it is. 

 

Okay, then it's the same reason Obito wants to confess to Rin even though he knows she's pursuing Kakashi. Using that as justification for Naruto not loving Sakura is weak and lame.  As to why Naruto doesn't use Sakura's lie as opportunity to confess, he makes it clear immediately after Sakura confesses; he knows Sakura is lying and does not want her to lie to herself, which is why he calls her out on it. He doesn't want to live a lie, which is why he won't entertain the infinite tsukiyomi either. That doesn't lead us to the conclusion that he does not want the dreams he'd be able to obtain in the infinite tsukiyomi.

 

And you absolutely are dancing around the question. You've done it again in this post: Why is he linking his feelings for Sakura to the promise in the first place? You continue to evade this question and for a very good reason: It invalidates your entire argument. Watch: You'll try and evade the question in the next post as well.

 

 

 

I'm well aware  that Suki is not a universal term for crush, but it fits perfectly in the context used to fit such a meaning. 

 

Meaning you think both Sakura and Karin have a mere crush on Sasuke:

With the amount of ammo I have, I can do this all day. Just stop.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 28 September 2017 - 06:41 PM.

[ThroughWithLove]

 

For the uptenth time, it is neither A nor B. (Also for the uptenth time, it is not much of a sudden suprise either). You are stuck on the principle that the words equate a platonic love

 

Um . . . that's what you said.

 

Analyzer: "Well, yeah, are we talking platonic love? That fits." : http://www.narusaku....=12939&p=949788

 

I'm going by what you wrote in plain words. Now that we've established that these are in fact your words and not misinterpretations, perhaps we can finally get to the bottom of all of this once and for all: Either you think Naruto's platonic relationship with Sakura came to a close or you're giving the databook the middle finger. I repeat: Which is it? 

 

 

It equates to a crush because that's what is shown to us. Your twistings of my words doesn't change that, either. You are relying on explicit denotation for your point. Understand the connotation and your argument falls apart. My interpretation is that Naruto has a crush on Sakura that fades. Established in chapter 3, over rivalry reasons, and re-stated in the Last, over rivalry reasons. If A = B, then yes, it is a crush. Are you ignoring Chapter 3 and this scene then? What is the love that Sakura is talking about Naruto having? Why would Naruto just say it? Crush fits the answer, and is in line with the material. Your answer isn't. You are insisting that since your interpretation clashes with the material, the material is in retcon and in the wrong. That is what I mean by ignoring. 

 

 

That's what you say is shown to us. Incidentally, here is what Bizarro Analyzer says is being shown to us: It equates to being disturbingly obsessed with beating Sasuke because that's what is shown to us. Your twistings of my words doesn't change that, either. You are relying on explicit denotation for your point. Understand the connotation and your argument falls apart. My interpretation is that Naruto is disturbingly obsessed with beating Sasuke Established in chapter 3, when he ties Sasuke up and tries to make him look bad in front of Sakura , and re-stated in the Last when Sakura tells Naruto that the only reason he said he loved her was because he was competing with Sasuke.. If A = B, then yes, it is him being disturbingly obsessed with beating Sasuke. Are you ignoring Chapter 3 and this scene then? What is the rivalry that Sakura is talking about Naruto having then? Why would Naruto not dispute what Sakura said about him purely wanting to beat Sasuke as opposed to actual feelings for her? Deranged obsession fits the answer, and is in line with the material. Your answer isn't. You are insisting that since your interpretation clashes with the material, the material is in retcon and in the wrong. That is what I mean by ignoring. 

 

So who am I to believe? Analyzer or Bizarro Analyzer?

 

 

 

What is the love that Sakura is talking about Naruto having? Why would Naruto just say it? 

 

What is the love that Sakura is talking about Naruto having? The love she says he said he had. Duh! Why would Naruto just say it? Because he was trying to beat Sasuke. Sakura explains this in the scene your referencing.

 

Not really evading it. I already put forth a scenario in which we assume he did not want to leap forward because Sasuke was not brought back, I already created the supposed scenario that invalidates my argument, and it doesn't. 

 

And like clockwork, you once again evade a very simple question. You mentioned a scenario, yes, and questioned why Naruto did not accept Sakura's lie. I gave you the answer Naruto gave. I take it you're not interested in the answer. That's fine, but it doesn't answer my question. I get that you're assuring us it was invalidated later.  Okay. Great. I think that's complete and total BS and have given my reasons why, but okay. All that aside, why is he linking his feelings for Sakura to the promise in the first place? How many times do I need to ask that question before I get a direct answer?

 

 

This does not mean however, he would absolutely confess if the promise was fulfilled. That is the erroneous conclusion many achieve. The two are linked in the matter of replying to Sai's question: How can I when this is outstanding? It does not mean he -would- if it wasn't, which is one point of 467. 

 

What does the promise remotely have to do with him telling Sakura how he feels Mrs. "The promise being a romantic thing has been invalidated?" By your logic, Naruto up and blurted out a random statement.

 

 

To the last point:

 

Sakura? Initially, yes, later on, absolutely not.

 

Karin? Yes. 

 

Later on, huh?

 

 

 

You might need more ammo. Your shots appear inaccurate. 

 

Oh by all means, you can keep hitting the reply button for eternity for all I care. All of the double talk and verbal contortionism amuses me. Like listening to a Washington politician.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 28 September 2017 - 08:55 PM.

[sushi.]

If you love someone platonically, and at the same time have a "crush" on them for at least 10 years..how is that not romantic love? You can't have a crush on a person you know from the inside out for a decade..

 

FYI Analyzer this isn't an discourse invitation but rather an argument/rethorical question directed at others on this site that don't double my need for sleep. You'll probably ignore this part but it'll look extra bad when you answer anyway. Probably start with calling my statement 'silly' or question marks like 'its isn't like this though?????' As if you're absolutely baffled that we have different opinions than you

[TouKen4Life3g]

Just stick to one love line. Thats all, writers.

[Illnevergiveup3]

Been on this site for three years. Been seeing this guy^^^ type out posts for years, and still don't know what he be talking about lol. @TouKen^^^

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 28 September 2017 - 10:22 PM.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

No mater how many times you name it just "crush", it won't become it 

[VanitasDS76491]

     
 
I freaking love the Nostalgia Critic! The writing for his newer videos is getting better, too.

 
Ya the critic is great can't wait for his it review next week.
 

lol Yeah I wish he would do a review of Naruto the Last as he would tear it apart and leave nothing left.

He'd probably have to do a crossover with Bennett the sage as he's the anime reviewer there but Ya I'd love to see that piece of kitten reviewed and thorn apart by them. Don't know what's worse to watch the last or an uwe bowell movie.
  

I'd actually love to see Linkara take a crack at the manga, then watch the Last. It'll be like his "One More Day" review multiplied by 3.

 
No it'd be one more, holy terror and avengers 200 put together, though I still say holy terror is worse than the last but the last is right under it. LinKara would rip the series a new one since he's been doing magna reviews lately.
 

Even One More Day was better done than Naruto the Last and take it from someone who read that stupic comic, I just never thought would come the day I would like "One More Day"

Agreed one more day is great compared even though it's the same story kind of with erasing the past events that mattered. Plus the revelation linkara had with spiderman in one more day is the same way I feel about naruto now. Plus you think naruto would act worse than Peter if put in that situation plus he'd agree to the deal and sell his marriage to hinata without a second thought. Think I'd sasuke died naruto would drag his corpse around looking for a zombie spell and If sasuke had died there'd be a bell tower and a rifle in his future.

[Nostradamus]

Been on this site for three years. Been seeing this guy^^^ type out posts for years, and still don't know what he be talking about lol. @TouKen^^^

[thelordofspace72]

narusaku strike back

 

[VanitasDS76491]

narusaku strike back
 

and we have and will keep getting stronger.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

It is though. This is the oddest of arguments. If we know canonically, it is not romantic love, in what we would conclude that Sakura was Naruto's first love, what is it? (Answer: Infatuation). 

Sorry, but in manga, the only person that Naruto ever had romantic feelings - Sakura, and your suggestions that you try to clame as "fact" won't work. Even more when you need side materials to justife EVERYTHING that happends in original sourse, just shows how much credibility you can give author and his "canon" facts. 

 

This disscussion naturally goes in circles, you can keep refer to The Last and people here still will post far more scans and arguments from original sourse aka manga, that will contradict The Last objectivly, not based on "it suggest"/"They misunderstood" controversy. Don't get me wrong, nobody here will deny that "The Last" is canon, in terms of franchise and etc. But it retconcs so much things of original sourse and debunks main character in so many ways that it feels like fanfiction. 

 

So for further dissucssion, if you're not tired of interceding for Kishimoto's bad writing, and denying retcons that happend. You can keep doing what you do, but I tell you that majority of people here - liked pre-retconed story/characters of it and totally ain't glad what it becamse in last couple of chapters and materials that came after ending of manga.

 

[thelordofspace72]

Oh really. We went back to the subject of "crush" again. Look Analyzer no matter how much you try to change our view of this topic, you will not succeed. If you do not want them to change your mind, do not change their mind. OK.

 

If the type of discussion does not change? I will file a complaint with the Jidi Council immediately.

 

Now to change the subject. What do you think about talking about something else?

[NarutoUzumaki01]

If we are going just by the manga? Naruto never says he loves Sakura. The Last keeps in line with chapter 3. Is Chapter 3 then, a retcon? Considering it is establishing the canon, it isn't. Two manga facts there for you right there. You're familiar with the chapter 3 moments, and I can't panel something that doesn't exist. 
 
The Last doesn't retcon anything in the manga. It -only- "retcons" your interpretations. Instead of adjusting them to match the Last and the manga, you are keeping your view of the manga and rejecting any material that further explains it. Instead of going "Ah, that's what the interpretation is", you claim it "clashes", and maintain your interpretation of events, even when a clear narrative otherwise is put forward. 
 
The Last is not modifying any events. It is not changing what happened in a timeline. It is -only- explaining, -only- giving you a clear image of what is and is not true. 
 
Again, what event did the Last modify? The answer is nothing.

*Naruto that creates shadow clones prior orginal manga*

 

Edited by NarutoUzumaki01, 29 September 2017 - 02:45 PM.

[lupina]

To be fair - his shadow clones were very tiny and wouldn't stand any comparison to actual ones. The ones he created at the academy were an improvement from the previous ones, because they were his size at least.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

To be fair - his shadow clones were very tiny and wouldn't stand any comparison to actual ones. The ones he created at the academy were an improvement from the previous ones, because they were his size at least.

Yeah... not that he only learned about shadow clones much later, from a ninja scrool that he stole from 3rd Hokage in manga... 

[NarutoUzumaki01]

 

This is a legitimate complaint that is a scripting error. The intent is to match Naruto's failures of making a clone he did in chapter one, but the verbage matches his usual shadow clone. The difference? One word. Remove and it's fixed.

 

It's still an obvious error, mind, but I wouldn't chalk it up to being a retcon, particularly when that element of canon remains unchanged, Naruto is still attributed to learning shadow clones in Boruto from the scroll. 

 

Any other "retcons"? 

You wen't from 0 to 100 really fast. I named many of retcon's before but to your tunnel vision it's "explained later", you obviosly ignoring facts and probably don't know meaning of word "retcon", Your bs with "crush", "misunderstood" and "Last didn't change anything" already gives a good vibe of how blindly you follow "it's canon" route of disscussion (wich nobody even argued), but it's to hard to see problems of writing if you don't have critical thinking. I'm glad if you enjoyed The Last as genuinely written final of Naruto saga, but it seems that you can't see any cons of anything that is related to ending of this franchise. So I'll take my time to and enjoy your disscussion with other people who have more passion to try and break through your logic.

 

Pardon if I'm being rude in this message.

Edited by NarutoUzumaki01, 29 September 2017 - 04:22 PM.