8493 replies to this topic

[4000TMNT]

Talking of Yamato, I'm a bit confused in his reaction to Sakura's confession. I thought that at the beginning of the Shippuuden he was hinting Sakura's feelings towards Naruto...But then he sounds a bit angry towards Sakura when she confessed to Naruto, which, Kakashi stopped. Was it just that he was angry because she confessed at a time like this? Or was he angry because she told a lie? If it is the latter then my belief of Yamato thinking that Sakura actually likes Naruto is wrong then.

I thought Yamato reacted to the Sasuke part of her confession.

[Living Lavish]

Talking of Yamato, I'm a bit confused in his reaction to Sakura's confession. I thought that at the beginning of the Shippuuden he was hinting Sakura's feelings towards Naruto...But then he sounds a bit angry towards Sakura when she confessed to Naruto, which, Kakashi stopped. Was it just that he was angry because she confessed at a time like this? Or was he angry because she told a lie? If it is the latter then my belief of Yamato thinking that Sakura actually likes Naruto is wrong then.

Its the first one. He was suprised that she would confess at time like this, just like anybody would. it was out the blue with everything else going at that time. plus he was only got upset once she said she didn't care about Sasuke anymore and he should give up. Yamato knew Naruto wouldn't so he found that unbelievable. Yamato could see this confession wasn't completely geniune when she was denying her love for Sasuke.

It still doesn't disregard the scene with him talking about Sakura feelings. it was geniune and it only implies one thing, romantic feelings. Sakura still doesn't know how she feels.

Edited by Living Lavish, 29 July 2012 - 05:01 AM.

[redragon88]

Talking of Yamato, I'm a bit confused in his reaction to Sakura's confession. I thought that at the beginning of the Shippuuden he was hinting Sakura's feelings towards Naruto...But then he sounds a bit angry towards Sakura when she confessed to Naruto, which, Kakashi stopped. Was it just that he was angry because she confessed at a time like this? Or was he angry because she told a lie? If it is the latter then my belief of Yamato thinking that Sakura actually likes Naruto is wrong then.

I think Yamato's reaction was the same one as Naruto's. At first Yamato was also shocked by what Sakura said, they both couldn't believe she just suddenly said that since it was so sudden and unexpected. Even if Yamato knew sakura had feelings for Naruto it probably caught him by surprise that she decided to confess all of a sudden. Then as she started bring up Sasuke and said Naruto didn't have to keep his promise, just like Naruto got suspicious of Sakura's words and intentions so did Yamato. I think that's the reason why he looks so serious, even if he knew how she unconsciously felt about Naruto he noticed that something was off about her attitude at that moment.

[Living Lavish]

I think Yamato's reaction was the same one as Naruto's. At first Yamato was also shocked by what Sakura said, they both couldn't believe she just suddenly said that since it was so sudden and unexpected. Even if Yamato knew sakura had feelings for Naruto it probably caught him by surprise that she decided to confess all of a sudden. Then as she started bring up Sasuke and said Naruto didn't have to keep his promise, just like Naruto got suspicious of Sakura's words and intentions so did Yamato. I think that's the reason why he looks so serious, even if he knew how she unconsciously felt about Naruto he noticed that something was off about her attitude at that moment.

spot on

[Codus N]

Oh just realized there's some other points that makes even the real world in the movie somewhat different from manga canon and also earlier than current storyline...

I was wondering why Naruto was drawn in Pierrot's movie poster like the way he looked at the start of part 2 and why Sakura's hair was as short as it was at the start of part 2 in the movie...

http://images.wikia....nime_poster.jpg

Then there's issue of Naruto's birthday. I'm pretty sure it's not his 17th, but rather his 16th. (As he is only about midway through his 16th year now in the manga). The divergence from manga canon seems to happen right around the time of Jiraiya's death, which appeared to happen right around Naruto's 16th birthday (it's right during this arc and the concurrent Itachi vs Sasuke final battle that the Kyuubi attack switches from having happened 15/16 years ago to 16 years ago. ) Perhaps in that "real world" Jiraiya still died but took down Konan and all the Pains before he died of his injuries- thus Naruto still has Sage training but Konoha isn't destroyed. Perhaps in that real world Sasuke isn't swayed by Madara, doesn't join the Akatsuki and perhaps maybe was even killed by that Madara (if so also likely along with the rest of Hebe) unbeknownst to that real world Naruto and Sakura.

The Pain attack on Konoha happens sometime after Naruto's 16th birthday (he's already 16, remember in chapter 440, when Minato asks him how old he is... The War arc is happening sometime in spring (we know it's past winter as it was during the Kage summit), it's probably around Sakura's 17th birthday and midway through Naruto's 16th year. Kishimoto's poster doesn't have Naruto looking so dramatically younger- but in the manga his face had already started to have noticeably matured by Pain's attack on Konoha, and Sakura's hair was already noticeably longer than it was at the start of part 2- her face was maturing as well. But in this movie Naruto and Sakura retain their start of part 2 looks in most of the images (the exception for Naruto is in the battle scene where he is wearing the 4th's coat- and even there it doesn't look as mature as Naruto's does now in the manga. In the manga Naruto and Sakura's faces are getting really close to what they will look like in the early years of their full adulthood.

In the movie real world I guess the Akatsuki were all defeated before Naruto turned 16.

Well, for one thing, we know that the movie takes place somewhere in July. But we don't know if it's before his birthday or after.

Kisame was dead and it happened after pain's arc.
So impossible to make a connection between the manga and the movie he just get their personalites when jiraya died and make some differences on their behaviors.

Yeah, really wish Kishi would clear it up if he feels like it.

That was just probably done to showcase how Sakura's idealism of an understanding Sasuke is just an immature fantasy she needed to wake up from. She first wishes Sasuke was at her side thinking he would understand her. Then she gets AU Sasuke to give her a rose and to let him know if anything bothered her, thus tricking Sakura into believing her fantasy of having an understanding Sasuke came true which made her happy therefore cherishing the rose. But later, reality cruelly kicks in with her noticing that he just says those same lines to any girl, thus feeling sad because her wishes were crushed.

The movie clearly showed at the beginning that her reasons for wanting an understanding Sasuke were not good at all since it was about having someone support her on not liking her parents. TheTokyoKit even mentions how the rose Sasuke gave her started to shrivel up, that could serve as a nice symbolism of Sakura's selfish desires in this movie. Even if she gets all her heart's desire in the beginning (no parents and an attentive Sasuke) in the end those shallow desires are nothing more than a simple childish fantasy that won't last in the long run.

Even if she's happy to not have parents at the start, she'll slowly come to miss their presence. And then when she decided to reach out to her supposed pillar of support (AU Sasuke) to reaffirm herself that she is happy in this world she notices that he simply tricked her all along, thus showing how wrong it was of her to wish for someone to understand her when it came to disliking her parents. No one was going to sympathize with her on disliking her parents, which she learned the hard way by seeing AU Sasuke betray her expectations.

Then by seeing how lonely it felt to be without parents she finally understood her selfishness toward Naruto, thus wanting to apologize to him for her previous attitude.

Wow, very spot on red. Great post!!

That's the whole point of their attitudes at the beginning. They act so mean to the ones they loved that it looked completely out of character for both of them. It was done to emphasize the changes in their attitudes as the movie progressed.

Both Naruto and Sakura were given pretty crappy attitudes in the beginning.
- First Sakura gets annoyed by her parents
- Then Naruto is disrespectful to Iruka
- Then Sakura gets angry with her parents and runs off
- Later Naruto seems to angrily scold her about her complains (it seems he talked to her in a very bad tone)
- Then Sakura gets pissed and in anger brings up Sasuke
- And from what I heard in NF Naruto got angry enough about her comment to ditch her right there, but then Tobi arrived

Naruto and Sakura were in very crappy moods in the beginning with the people they cared for and with each other. It really was done on purpose for the sake of the movie plot.

The only thing that bothers me would be the Sasuke comment. But I suppose it's good for the drama between them.

You know, I keep forgetting that poor Yamato is still trapped on that tree thing in the enemy base so he can power up the Zetsu. I wonder if they'll ever rescue the poor guy. Maybe after he comes back he could make a comment once again about Sakura's feelings.

Actually, Killer Bee is my prime candidate for that role. Just imagine the hilarity .

Also, that "longest date" comment, I thought that could be taken as her trying to cover up what happened to her parents, since they've obviously been gone for a long time. But of course, it could be very different once we see the movie for itself.

[Nefertieh]

She denied that it was a date in the beginning of the movie, but when Naruto asks her for one at the end, she says that they just had the longest date ever

Nice catch! I love hook endings.

That date thing, something tells me that Sakura will gladly accept his date request with no excuse in the future, the first time she accepted his request it was cut off. Sakura wanted to apologize for the things she told Naruto but Kishi also cut that out, he wants her to apologize in real manga not a movie.
Now the question, what's it with you and Naruto?
Sai ask her about Naruto, no reply.
Yamato, no reply.
Hinta, no reply.
Every moment between Sakura where it seems that the tension will raise it's cut up by something or someone.

She already accepted a date with him if he paid, but Shikamaru interrupted them.

Also I wanted to point out, that Naruto didn't seem that bother by Sasuke, is like he didn't care if Sasuke was there or not. That reminds me of someone saying that Sakura really loves Sasuke, something that created my question. If Naruto was not affected by au Sasuke, but Sakura seems to fall in love with this Sasuke, doesn't that means that her love is shallow? Or that means that Naruto doesn't care about Sasuke that's why he didn't care about this Sasuke?

Naruto probably does care for Sasuke, but it seems all of Sasuke's screentime was cut in favour for Minato and Kushina. Naruto was highly suspicious of everyone at first, because he knew they weren't the real thing.

Talking of Yamato, I'm a bit confused in his reaction to Sakura's confession. I thought that at the beginning of the Shippuuden he was hinting Sakura's feelings towards Naruto...But then he sounds a bit angry towards Sakura when she confessed to Naruto, which, Kakashi stopped. Was it just that he was angry because she confessed at a time like this? Or was he angry because she told a lie? If it is the latter then my belief of Yamato thinking that Sakura actually likes Naruto is wrong then.

I'm confused about Yamato too, perhaps it will be clarified in the future. It does seem odd that everybody in the war has forgotten about him, though. xD

[ciardha]

I want to laugh now because the arguments of anti-NS ppl are that, after Sakura's confession Naruto hates the part of Sakura(that wasn't being honest), or it ruined their relationship. Then BOOM, a movie which the sub-plot is dedicated to their bond is made, and from none other than Kishi
And nope, I don't see Sakura's confession to Naruto ruining the relationship to this story.

But anyways, if both of them were lashing against each other or towards their parent( or guardian in Naruto's case), I don't know why only Sakura gets bashed by the reviewers. I wish I was in Japan to see the movie

To put it bluntly- sexism. Female characters across fandoms always get judged more harshly than male characters. A female character can say one phrase in irritation or frustration and not really mean it like it was said at all, but readers (including people who claim they ship the female character with the male character that loves her) bash her relentlesly from that point on as if she was meaning it in absolute truth. Where a male character can actually be a real jerk to the female character, and those self same readers cheer him on. Sakura is only one the more recent victims of this. It's especially bad amongst fandoms in the west. I can unpleasantly recall the exact same treatment (even down to the words used!) Not many things disgust me more in fandoms. I've seen it in so many fandoms that it causes me to actually get nauseated as well as angry. I can't even go to a shipping forum without seeing this...

And yes, female fans who claim to ship the female character with the guy who loves her can be just as ugly as the guys- in fact the ones that went into obvious psychosis in Spike and Buffy fandoms were all female. (truly frightening levels of hatred directed not just against the character Buffy, but against the actress Sarah Michele Geller- convoluting the character with the actress and I heard of a few that claimed they actually mailed death threats to the actress because they didn't think Buffy was being properly worshipful of Spike!

I still have emotional scars from the horror that was the Spuffy forums in the last year of Buffy. The few of us that vocally defended Buffy (and poor Sarah, and outright told these crazies to stop mistaking fantasy for reality, eventually stopped going to the shipping forums and started communicating with each other on Live Journal- (still have three good friends from that fandom on my friends list almost 10 years after the show ended...) We were writing long, long defenses of Buffy on our our live journals and sharing our feelings (we all were feminists and all but one of us were 1960's babies, one younger woman then in her early twenties was part of that refugee group, she's now a mother of two young children and is one of the three I still am good friends with.

A similar thing happened in the Rogue and Gambit of X-men comics shipper group, I'm still good friends with the first other Rogue and Gambit shipper I met, in the pre world wide web era- via snail mail. Then we both got online on the World Wide Web with regular acess in 1997 (this was pre the hatred in the shipper groups era- that started right around 2000.) We both stopped bothering to even try to reason with the Rogue bashers amongst the so called Romy shippers after a while and started just speaking about the Rogue and Gambit ship and our disgust at how Marvel comics were making either Rogue or Gambit look bad to kill the fandom ship with each other. (Marvel has had an outright policy since mid 1994 against any permanent romantic couples (thus the break of Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson's marriage, then killing off her character...) Disgustingly, Marvel almost always makes the female character of the ship be the "bad guy" that breaks the couple up- by cheating with another man, etc... Which just adds fuel to the hatred of the female character. (I point blank stopped buying Marvel comics. I only buy X-men comics whenever they merry-go-round Rogue and Gambit back with each other. My long time friend who is also a Rogue and Gambit shipper is a 40 something southern (US) feminist like myself- we are close enough we meet up every year and still exchange presents for our birthdays and the holidays, nearly 20 years after our friendship started.

I couldn't leave it at the bad stuff, I wanted younger fans here who haven't weathered as many shipper forums with a vocal contingent of hate the main female character posters that even amongst the ugliest forums you can find others like you who hate the bashing of the main female character. Those are the friends to seek out- share private messages with each other when the hate on the forum against Sakura gets too ugly for your shipper heart....

Edited by ciardha, 29 July 2012 - 06:42 AM.

[Hiraishin]

Actually, Killer Bee is my prime candidate for that role. Just imagine the hilarity .

I agree. o: You know, ever since Bee met Iruka and he said he saw Iruka in Naruto's heart, I've always wondered what it would be like if Bee met Sakura. I can only imagine what he'd say about her. Kishi, make it happen!

[merryGOflava]

I agree. o: You know, ever since Bee met Iruka and he said he saw Iruka in Naruto's heart, I've always wondered what it would be like if Bee met Sakura. I can only imagine what he'd say about her. Kishi, make it happen!

make it make it happen!! >:U

[Codus N]

I agree. o: You know, ever since Bee met Iruka and he said he saw Iruka in Naruto's heart, I've always wondered what it would be like if Bee met Sakura. I can only imagine what he'd say about her. Kishi, make it happen!

Knowing him, he'll make a rap ballad of love about them. If they get some downtime, I'd like him to sing it at the camp to the army which will just make NS die of embarrassment.

[Nefertieh]

To put it bluntly- sexism. Female characters across fandoms always get judged more harshly than male characters. A female character can say one phrase in irritation or frustration and not really mean it like it was said at all, but readers (including people who claim they ship the female character with the male character that loves her) bash her relentlesly from that point on as if she was meaning it in absolute truth. Where a male character can actually be a real jerk to the female character, and those self same readers cheer him on. Sakura is only one the more recent victims of this. It's especially bad amongst fandoms in the west. I can unpleasantly recall the exact same treatment (even down to the words used!) Not many things disgust me more in fandoms. I've seen it in so many fandoms that it causes me to actually get nauseated as well as angry. I can't even go to a shipping forum without seeing this...

Not just in anime/ manga, but in a lot of entertainment. Guy rejects girl? Well, she deserved it. Girl rejects guy? She'll never see the light of day.

That isn't even the worst of it. Women have a significantly smaller speaking role than men, and are far more often cast as prostitutes or some other form of fanservice. I hate to point out the obvious, but pro-fanservice =/= pro-women.

Then and again, most blockbuster movies usually revolve around the male perspective.

[Branden]

Knowing him, he'll make a rap ballad of love about them. If they get some downtime, I'd like him to sing it at the camp to the army which will just make NS die of embarrassment.

Kishi, make it happen!!!!

[Derock]

No, no, it wouldn't be a rap song... it will be an enka rap song!!

[Hiraishin]

Knowing him, he'll make a rap ballad of love about them. If they get some downtime, I'd like him to sing it at the camp to the army which will just make NS die of embarrassment.

And I will die of happiness.

[Branden]

Hey Guests.... I see you there... 17 of you are reading... We are Naruto fans. Make an account and talk to us!

[Transformers03]

So did we ever find out what happen after Sakura commented that they went on the longest date ever? Did it just switch to Naruto and Iruka, or did she thank him?

[4000TMNT]

For people that scene the movie, do they think that NaruSaku had romantic undertones in the movie.

[ciardha]

Not just in anime/ manga, but in a lot of entertainment. Guy rejects girl? Well, she deserved it. Girl rejects guy? She'll never see the light of day.

That isn't even the worst of it. Women have a significantly smaller speaking role than men, and are far more often cast as prostitutes or some other form of fanservice. I hate to point out the obvious, but pro-fanservice =/= pro-women.

Then and again, most blockbuster movies usually revolve around the male perspective.

Yes. I wrote more and went into detail about two of my worst experiences- both in western fandoms. You still see it in every day life too- although it's usually more subtle than what you see in fandoms. I saw an early version of this in Beatles fandom (been a Beatle fan since I was two years old and saw Yellow Submarine in the theater with my parents I saw the ugly side of the fandom close up when I became a passionate shipper of John Lennon and Yoko Ono when I was 12 in 1978. (read an interview they did in 1970 in book and their hopes and ideals matched up with mine- especially Yoko's. They were kind of spiritual mentors to me because of that.)

Being the daughter of a second wave feminist and a budding feminist myself at 12 I was intensely angered at the racism and sexism directed toward Yoko by the Beatles fans (again some of the same words I hear hurled against Sakura I first heard hurled against Yoko- and all because John treated her as his equal partner.... and she had her own career as an artist and musician- long before she met John, in fact she was famous in the avant-garde artist world a good five years before the Beatles became famous....but I'll leave the history at that...

The Beatle fans were vocally vile to her with racist and sexist attacks, all over the media... It finally began to lessen in the 1990's, you still see it today from time to time, but her strength and perseverance and clear talent has made a lot of that fade- in some part because a percentage of the worst offenders have died off, and the younger Beatle fans find that level of racism and sexism nonsensical. I still avoid general Beatle websites and forums out of sheer wariness though, stick to John and Yoko sites and forums.

Edited by ciardha, 29 July 2012 - 07:39 AM.

[Branden]

Anybody got a video of the Menma fight? Or perhaps that scene on Mt. Rushmore?

[Slextrem]

Talking of Yamato, I'm a bit confused in his reaction to Sakura's confession. I thought that at the beginning of the Shippuuden he was hinting Sakura's feelings towards Naruto...But then he sounds a bit angry towards Sakura when she confessed to Naruto, which, Kakashi stopped. Was it just that he was angry because she confessed at a time like this? Or was he angry because she told a lie? If it is the latter then my belief of Yamato thinking that Sakura actually likes Naruto is wrong then.

If you read the chapter, Yamato doesn't react negatively to her until she says, "Won't you stop chasing Sasuke?"

Chapter 469 Spoils~ --Click here to view--

http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v50/c469/12.html

It's not a question of whether or not he believes in her feelings for Naruto; he simply didn't like the fact that she was asking him to ditch Sasuke. Especially since Naruto had just taken a beating from Karui in order to protect Sasuke, and later humiliated himself by literally getting down on his hands and knees and begging the Raikage to spare him. After watching Naruto show such passion for Sasuke, it's not surprising to see Yamato or even Kakashi get angry with her over that request.

Edited by Slextrem, 29 July 2012 - 07:57 AM.