54213 replies to this topic

[VanitasDS76491]

The manga answered that already; the second Naruto found out about the war he went to end it on his own, with his army of Shadow clones. Naruto isn't a person that can send a person of on a mission where they may die. Which is why by the end of the manga he was not ready to be hokage. Since he isn't a person who can make those tough choices. The journey to become hokage was side tracked by the chase for Sasuke for part two, and after that the only thing that mattered was Naruto ending up with Hinata. Notice we never hear anything about during those interving years Naruto being trained to become hokage. He just handed it when Kakashi was ready to retire.

Exactly naruto doesn't think like a leader or he think he is right all the time when he isn't. Hell batman and Robin tried to wrap up Bruce's character from the four movies with Bruce coming to terms that the people around him can and will die and he can't stop that or at least the comic version of the movie did that. But naruto isn't like that and shouldn't be hokage with his mind set like that it's only going to bite him in the ass later. If their was a 5th war naruto would probably deal with it on his own. In fact in the 4th war he made everything worse cause the Allied forces were doing good against obito but comes in and makes everything thing worse letting obito become the ten-tails and later Madara. Hell captain America and Wonderwoman in their movies know they can't save everyone in a war especially in the wonderwoman movie from this year showed that. I'm more surprised naruto wasn't yelled at for making things worse in war sure he saved the world but made it so Madara accomplished his goal. Ya majority of the problem in story are naruto and his teams fault especially Sakura at the Kage summit.
This is why I say naruto is the most irresponsible hero next to goku right now. When you make homer Simpson look like a good father you've kittened up. Then again homer for being an idiot is a better father and gets conquenices but that word doesn't exist in naruto cause if they did sasuke would be in jail.

[Bail o' Lies]

Was scrolling through tvtropes and noticed a great deal of revisionist history on the ship tease section: http://tvtropes.org/...e/AnimeAndManga

Of course the victors are the ones who decide what happened. Any hint of NS happening must have been false, while every nH hint must have been true all along.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 02 September 2017 - 10:43 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

You may have not been here but in the gaiden they had this secret tower that Naruto knows to go to if he wants to talk to Sasuke or Sasuke wants to talk with him.

That makes too much sense and answers if they are gay.

Of course the victors are the ones who decide what happened. Any hint of NS happening must have been false, while every nH hint must have been true all along.

GOD see this why everything in the world sucks and why we are going to destroy ourselves in the future.

[Bail o' Lies]

Naruto is in a bizarrely cheerful mood, as we see from his multiple smiles when discussing his asinine plan to die with Sasuke. That's the expression. Take it for what you will.

 

SNS, for me anyway, is a headcanon effort to make sense of the bad writing and bizarre headscratchings decisions made by Kishimoto and SP throughout the manga and the movie and even the Boruto series. Alternatively, Madara won and everyone is currently trapped in the infinite tsukiyomi. Perhaps we're reviewing Hinata's dream at the moment.

SNS bond was always to justify why Naruto is chasing after Sasuke for years despite the minor amount of interactions they had before Sasuke left the village.

 

Determination doesn't excuse him coming off as an insensitive psychopath (which he escalates even further once we get to all this death-together talk). Just because he wants to bring Sasuke back doesn't mean he has to act like nearly killing Sakura is no big deal. 

That death talk never made sense and seemed to be quickly dropped after that conversation.

 

It's just another attempt from Kishi to ensure Sasuke is not held responsible for his acts.

 

The sad part is that this is actually spot on. And frankly, I don't think someone needs to be the hokage if they're willing to throw away common sense and decency all for the sake of appeasing one friend to the point that he isn't even allowed to give him a good tongue lashing.

 

Precisely.  People home in on Sasuke when it comes to his immunity to personal responsibility and consequence, but that's mainly because he's the most prevalent.  ALL of the damn Uchihas get a freakin' excuse so they can't be held accountable for their actions; and it's a wonder Kishimoto didn't make Sasuke the titular main protagonist given how much favortism is given to him and his family when compared to Naruto.

For all three. It has been a few months since I've said this so allow me to restate it. Sasuke's character arc ended with the death of Itachi. Sasuke got his revenge from that point he should have realized the pointless emptiness of revenge and went on to become a better person. The problem is that removes the second fight between Naruto and Sasuke that kishimoto wanted. So Sasuke needed to remain an avenger so Naruto could redeem him. But to remain an avenger he needed a new target. Kishimoto picked the village, with that decision destroyed the rep of the hidden leaf and led to questions in the fanbase why should Sasuke return to the village that ordered the death of his family?

 

Characters don't matter because Kishi had a story he wanted to tell, and if it didn't work for the characters then the characters were the ones that had to change.

 

Word on the Otakus part. I suspect that the current writers, whoever they are, for Boruto are a bunch of Otakus. SP also seems to have quite a few in their employ. Explains a lot really.

Remember SP were the mega fans of hinata. An example (other then the naked waterfall dance, or her been down wearing the Chinese outfit with a Venus flytrap where her panties would be showing, or... god there are a lot these aren't there) when Neji and Hinata spared in one of their filler episode Neji touched Hinata's chest. SP on their site called Neji dirty for coping a feel on her. Hinata was twelve in that filler fight. This was around the time of the ending. As for the manga... just look at Salad.

 

I can't accept it maan it's been almost 3 years since naruto came to end, but I feel like it wasn't good, feel like something is lack from the serie, I mean the whole history has only one development, never give up, but Naruto gived up on Sakura. I know is an insignificant part of the plot, but when it look all naruto's plot and avery time I do it I feel like NS is lack in it and I can't get it.
I'd like to know how is Boruto in solds and see if they are getting well about the final that's all know was by the money, and sincerely I hope Boruto became in DBGT.
As far as I know the Japanese aren't happy 'bout the final too so why don't kishi make an alternative final, don't care if it's just a manga issue... sorry guys about my English... and sorry about my groan...

The manga is collapsing due to those clown incompetence. Seriously ten months of rehashing a movie, and a fifteen chapter prologue that's gone on for a year and a half. So the manga should be cancelled already if it wasn't for the fact that it is the sequel to Naruto. As for the anime. I don't know. It's somewhat popular on Youtube, but that means nothing because the companies aren't getting a dime from that.

 

Well, you'll be happy to know that Boruto is bombing hard in the ratings department and its manga sales are equally dismal. The series is expected by most of us to face cancellation either this or next year.

Hopefully that's the case.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 02 September 2017 - 11:42 AM.

[Kagomaru]

Of course the victors are the ones who decide what happened. Any hint of NS happening must have been false, while every nH hint must have been true all along.

And this is why no one takes TV Tropes seriously.

[lupina]

Of course the victors are the ones who decide what happened. Any hint of NS happening must have been false, while every nH hint must have been true all along.

 

Remember this one? 

 

https://lupina015.tu...-on-narhin-ever

[VanitasDS76491]

Well I did it is finished reading all 700 chapters of naruto, and my God did take a massive dive toward the end and as a bonus I went through the whole series and counted up every time hinata was on panel and I don't know how accurate I got this but here's my findings
Total pages from Vol 1-72: 13,728 out of all those chapters she only was in 131 of those which is 5% and pages wise she was in 484 pages out of those 13,728 pages which is 29% of the series.
Any find anything different share your thoughts with me.
Yes hinata was only in 29% of the series and won naruto kitten that and this series, that makes no sense.
Also if I'm wrong correct me.

[T XD]

Correction to this:

 

Kishimoto never intended to tell a story akin to the Last, showing the exact events that lead to their marriage. He did intend 700. 

His sayings don't at least suggest that he intended 700.

 

Read them again :

 

“But I didn’t really have any devotion about the love story of the two-Naruto and Hinata- (lol). I didn’t plan to write this story.” - Kishimoto

 

“So the idea of a [NH] love story wasn’t my idea at the start, however Pierrot staff suggested the movie to revolve around it (hence the final product being the way it is).” - Kishimoto

 

You will never see his contradictory interviews post-ending, will you ?

[T XD]

 

The second sentence is about the Last, final product, the movie, being the way it is.

 

The first sentence is about Kishimoto not having any devotion to telling how the two fell in love.

 

It is not a translation to how you think it is, I.E., I did not intend them to get together in 700.

I know what the second sentence is about, but you don't think much of it more than Naruto and Hinata in The Last, nor about the first sentence as to what it means. Plus, this one is among the contradictory interviews.

 

Whatever float your boat.

[VanitasDS76491]

That's not bad. Also congratulations. Many do think the war arc dragged on too long, Uchiha at some fault of that. Though for me it was early war, the last hundred or so chapters were actually enjoyable, and it might have been better if they got to that faster.
 
For a side character being featured only that much seems appropriate. Yes, you an win someone with just that many pages, see Harry Potter.; You can also do so convincingly, see Naruto. 
 
 
 

 
 
Correction to this:
 
Kishimoto never intended to tell a story akin to the Last, showing the exact events that lead to their marriage. He did intend 700.

Ya it did go on long and ruined alot of the series and kishi seemed like he was making it up as he went.
Though Harry potters side characters are more interesting than hinata like navelle.
The war hit bottom when obito was revealed and making Madara so op not even kishi knew how to stop him. Thanks it was long and hard, hell I hate the last two volumes so much I punched them after reading them.

Edited by VanitasDS76491, 04 September 2017 - 09:20 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

Neville was okay, he's used more comically than seriously until towards the end though, and later Neville is much better than early Neville IMO. I did enjoy Luna though. 
 
Part of me wonders if Tobi actually being a long-surviving Madara would have been better, to keep things shorter and allow more Kaguya set up, and less Uchiha stuff. 
 
But I do understand that Obito did allow Kishimoto to deliver finally on the late promised Kakashi heroic coolness he wanted to do. So part of me wonders if it would have been better if it was the other way, and Madara never came back.

Luna was good too,
Or cut the whole kaguya stuff out cause it ruined the series more cause did we really need an origin for Chakra.
Maybe Tobi idea could have worked expect him acting like a jackass til tell reveal after itachi died. If Madara never came back and was just on obito as the final villain the war would been good but no we get necron kaguya at the end and forced sasuke revolution bull kitten.

[BlueStarSaber]

 

I don't think Kaguya needed to be cut out. She just needed foreshadowing. She's actual an interesting villain, finally someone not Uchiha, and her upstaging of Madara is actually pretty epic when you think about it. This Uchiha who thinks he is the next Messiah, the end of all, undefeatable, gets upstaged and defeated by his own minion.

Her only purpose purpose was to make the bakugan important just so that SP can make Hinata look more important and special for their up coming movie and Boruto project. The problem with her upstaging is that ruins the build up for Madara who has been hyped as the legendary warrior that only Hashirama was only ever to beat him and the most powerful foe for Naruto and his friends have ever faced. While I'll admit the Uchiha have been overused so much in the manga, that doesn't justify replacing them with a wanbe hyuga clan ancestor as the Hyuga's at best are side character and have been irrelevant to the plot since Part 1 ended. Though Granted I will admit Kaguya could of been interesting if built up as a mythological figure in the world of Naruto or saved for a part 3/sequel series.

[VanitasDS76491]

I don't think Kaguya needed to be cut out. She just needed foreshadowing. She's actual an interesting villain, finally someone not Uchiha, and her upstaging of Madara is actually pretty epic when you think about it. This Uchiha who thinks he is the next Messiah, the end of all, undefeatable, gets upstaged and defeated by his own minion.

Hmm true kaguya need to be introduced earlier maybe go the bansheera route from lights peed rescue where she in stone for most of the series and uses obito how she wants.

[ThroughWithLove]

How about this? No Kaguya, no Madara and no War arc. Problem solved.

[Qia]

Or just change the pacing of the war arc, foreshadow Kaguya, and focus way less on the past Hokages. They were cool, though, I think one could have found a way to get Sasuke to go to the battlefield directly after Itachi vs. Kabuto, which would have helped a lot on its own. 

 

It's an easier edit than scrapping an eitre arc, particularly that other points of the Manga build towards it, and would need to be edited, etc. 

 

The thing is after the Itachi fight it's hard to see how Sasuke would have suddenly changed his mind about destroying Konoha. So the whole Hokage thing, or some event, had to occur to show this change, unfortunately. It's pretty boring for sure. 

[VanitasDS76491]

How about this? No Kaguya, no Madara and no War arc. Problem solved.

Ya that could be better and just cut out or reduce the amount of talking and the characters doing nothing but listening would have helped like during obito telling the Kage about the ten tails kill him in the middle of it and kill sasuke in that fight at Kage summit and just kill kabuto back in the hunt for Orochimaru.

[Riverkid]

His sayings don't at least suggest that he intended 700.

 

Read them again :

 

“But I didn’t really have any devotion about the love story of the two-Naruto and Hinata- (lol). I didn’t plan to write this story.” - Kishimoto

 

“So the idea of a [NH] love story wasn’t my idea at the start, however Pierrot staff suggested the movie to revolve around it (hence the final product being the way it is).” - Kishimoto

 

You will never see his contradictory interviews post-ending, will you ?

she doesn't even see her own contradictory 

[Riverkid]

 

I illustrated how there was none, no one's yet to show how the construction I put forward is faulty. 

illustrated? whenever i pointed it out you said "its not" and you write again a big mess of text where you just over-tryhard defending the contradiction you made.

"The development between Hinata and Naruto? its pure detailed romantic to set the end-game relationship" - analyzer
"Narutos rage at the pain-arc ? it was solely becuase of his romantic feelings towards hinata!" - analyzer
"look, here we have chapter XY where we can see Hinatas romantic feeling towards Naruto, which just proves that there were enough details!!!!" - anazlyer

vs.

"there is no romance in naruto" - analyzer

Now im going to read something like "no, you got it totally wrong... by romance i mean XYblablabla"-bullsht.


im still waiting for the pagenumbers btw :-) "no one's yet to show how your nonsense makes sense"

[Riverkid]

 

You poorly capture my words. 

 

Let me say it for you:

 

There is no romance in Naruto:

 

Naruto has growing affections for Hinata throughout the manga.

 

In other words, Kishimoto did not write romance, but he laid out the groundwork for it. See the Databook for the Last for further details. 

 

A Romance as a type of story told is not the same as a character having feelings for another. 

 

In other words, this is not a contradiction. 

 

Two Sources for the below: Chapter 40. Chapter 98. I'm not stating specific pages as promised, I do apologize for that, but it's best to just read a whole chapter, they're short enough. 

 

I can use -just- these two chapters to defend my stance of growing affection. I can say, with objective truth, that Naruto's opinion and feelings for Hinata as they are initially are not the same as they are in chapter 98. I can source Naruto's initial quote of her, and I can source Naruto's new quote of her, and show how they show a demonstrative change in attitude towards her. I can show the two different scenes, one, Naruto in his usual self, the other with Naruto down, in a short of despair, where we set up a pattern more or less emulated in 615, where Hinata saves him, and shows also, how she does see him, not as an ideal for her to follow, but as a failure that keeps trying, I.E., a proud failure. You do not need a ton of panels to make the development compelling. You can do a lot with so little. 

oh nononono.. you didnt say "naruto isn't a romance-typed story" you said "there is no romance in Naruto". Using retcon on your own words now? poor. both are 2 different things

Here is the next thing:

"Yes, you are right.. the death of Jiraiya improved the pain-arc" - analyzer

vs. 

"so at the end, no.. the death of a character doesn't make the story better" - analyzer

Its hard to not call you a hypocritical person, but sometimes you just make it too easy


 

[T XD]

I corrected the second sentence: I.E., the death of a character does not necessarily make the story better. Or I can keep it as is, really, because deaths on their own don't make the story better, it's their set up and the elements around them that do. I.E., it's Jirayai's connection to Naruto that gives the death impact. If it was just a random guy, it would just serve to make Pein more powerful seeming, but, I could write that without him dying if needed. 

 

When you remove context, it's easy to do anything. 

 

There is no romance in Naruto. Naruto has growing affections for the character he ends up with. These don't contradict. They cannot contradict. They have to do with two different things. 

I think you need to know that there's no one kind of romance.