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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#44981 Khaleesi

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 06:32 PM

 

1: I'm not sure the logic of 1. "If something is made to mislead, it was credible enough to be endgame."...is logically false? You're telling a lie, hiding it to make it look pretty, so people think something that is not true. If you take it without looking at the other clues, you've fallen for it. A better detective would see the truth.

 

The misunderstanding of this and Red Herring is that neither have foundation. They're a pull with suggestion, which readers like yourself may certainly fall for. This sort of Stirring the pot interest certainly fueled what was shipping wars, but once the smoke screen was gone, what happened at the end made a lot of sense. The Last gives a translation of it, though, many just wave a hand at it in their pride.

 

2: The problem with 2, is since it's ultimately not supported, there aren't 600 chapters of it. I mean, your final number here is... zero, which makes the line after it flawed. 

 

To support two, you need to illustrate how each NS moment (And you have to show 600 chapters of instances of it here, which let's be frank, there aren't six hundred chapters, though I'll assume it's a hyperbole for your sake), then you have to illustrate how the end doesn't make sense, because you'll find your jigsaw won't quite fit. 

 

Man, didn't I say I was done discussing anything with you?

 

You are blatanly ignoring half of what I said and "analyzing" the remains :lmao:

 

What I've been trying to say, to someone else, again, I wasn't talking to you, is that the purpose of red-herring is to mislead. And, to mislead, you have to throw enough evidence to support the thought, because if there isn't any, then no one would fall for it. Which makes me repeat myself: "It's understandable for anyone to believe it as end-game."

 

Now, Kishimoto over-used, as minimum, the red-herring technique which from a writer POV is already a sin. The consecuence is that story-wise, despite his intentions (NH), NS would have make more sense. In other words, the red-herring literaly resource backlashed to him, which also makes him a bad writer.

 

On a different note, you have to remember that 1. Kishimoto made sure Sakura was waving hearts between Sasuke and Naruto at some point; 2. He, after seeing what he wrote, thought about making them canon for a time. These two points supports, logically, the theory that Kishimoto might have thrown more than just red-herrings at some moment.


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#44982 Khaleesi

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 06:57 PM

 

How exactly did he overuse Red Herrings? What are the list of Red Herrings you have that amount to "over-used"? Let's start there. 

Neither I or sushi. were addresing to you in first place and, as we've stated before, we are not interested on discussing with you any longer. I explained myself on what you misread so I have nothing else to say.


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#44983 Khaleesi

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 07:10 PM

 

That's fine, but it's this unanswered question that leaves your statement wobbly and questionable in the first place. 

It is only fair but I won't fall for pride. Maybe, someone else will try to follow this topic with you, though, given that everyone is reading us for the last 2-3 days. But, again, sushi and I have declared not wanting to discuss with you in the first place, so why you kept quoting us when we didn't address you? That's not respecting our decision.


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#44984 Khaleesi

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 07:28 PM

 

Because I am making a reply, naturally, which I am showing is specifically addressed to you. Thus, this reply. 

Obviously, I don't mean now :lmao: sushi and I were talking to each other and you quoted us to try to open a new discussion for which, at least, you should apologyze. We did say to you, very clearly, that we weren't interested on debating with you.


Edited by Khaleesi, 31 July 2017 - 07:28 PM.

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#44985 sushi.

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 07:41 PM

 
You're posting in a public thread. If this was the issue, PM's are the proper route. 

It's more asking you to be polite and do us a favour. If you must reply I won't stop you..

I won't use PM because other members here that I won't have to use up all my energy on, might have something to say.

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#44986 Khaleesi

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 07:42 PM

 

You're posting in a public thread. If this was the issue, PM's are the proper route. 

"We did say to you, very clearly, that we weren't interested on debating with you."

You still can't admit when you are wrong. Jeez. We said we didn't want to discuss with you. Either is a public thread or not, if we've already stated that we don't want to be involved in a debate with you, why would you try to start a new one? We are not saying you can't read us and have your opinions, just please spare yourself from quoting us and trying to open any discussion with us. That's all we asked, yet you can't respect that.


Edited by Khaleesi, 31 July 2017 - 07:42 PM.

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#44987 Khaleesi

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 07:51 PM

Doing both at once.

 

You don't have to respond, or reply. But if you post something here, I read it, and I have a thought, I write it, because that's what a public forum is, and allows, multiple voices. Naturally, you can ignore a voice, but I mean, this is the debate thread? So yeah, if I see a point I want to point out and discuss, I will. It is obviously the other side's point whether they wish to continue that or not.

 

As you see no Naruto discussion is in this bubble, so it's not getting discussed. 

The debate thread is like a general rule.

But if an user asks you to stop doing something to them specifically, then your freedom is limited to their decision. Because this is a particular case.

 

It's like you are a huger but I don't like hugs, so I say "I know you like to hug, but I don't, so please don't hug ME." We are not trying to stop your hugs, we are marking a line to avoid being involved. That is what respect is. If you don't get it, then I have nothing else to say.

 

So, yeah. This topic also stops here.


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#44988 Khaleesi

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 08:29 PM

 

I can't agree with a "Stop replying to my posts" mindset on a public medium, particularly when the posts have no malice to them. Essentially you are stating that because I think and have different ideas that clash with yours, you do not want to hear them. It's not a good mindset. 

 

But fair, you do not have to reply to anything I post, nor should anyone feel obligated to .

No, I'm not stating that. :lmao: Thank you for distorting my words. :lmao: I've tried to debate with you before but I think it won't really go anywhere since you are not open-minded and can't accept you are wrong in the moments when you are, so if I say, please I rather not talk with you, you should respect that, since you are forcing your way.

 

The point wasn't that. The point was "If I didn't adress you specifically, please don't talk to me". This a real world rule, thought. I'm kind of worried about how you live based on this. Your freedom stops were the others' begin.


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#44989 sushi.

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 08:46 PM

 

Even with that sort of wording, this goes against what a forum does.

 

You post something on a forum. Users are free to respond freely. That is what a forum is, an open discussion. Not a: You can't respond, but everyone else can, sort of discussion.

 

My mind is pretty opinion, and if I see myself as wrong, I will make amendments. But if I'm not wrong, nor see myself that way, why would I accept I am wrong? None of your arguments have really illustrated that, or had a foundation to really work with.

No it doesn't. Again we don't demand you to shut up and we're not against debating, we're just kindly asking you to agree to disagree because our discussion won't go anywhere.

But of course, we asked you to stop and since you said no we'll have to accept that. :confused: 


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#44990 T XD

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 08:57 PM

This will be an out of the blue post :P

 

 Maybe someday 0: but I'm scared!

Surely don't try these mushrooms :fu:


Edited by T XD, 31 July 2017 - 08:59 PM.


#44991 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:11 PM

I'm starting to miss the Goku vs superman debates on these threads



#44992 Khaleesi

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:31 PM

This will be an out of the blue post :P

 

Surely don't try these mushrooms :fu:

:argh:

 

I'm starting to miss the Goku vs superman debates on these threads

Uhm. Goku?


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#44993 T XD

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:31 PM

Superman is boring. * Waits for Illnevergiveup's reply *
 

:argh:

Uhm. Goku?

Goku is the protagonist in Dragon Ball.

 


Edited by T XD, 31 July 2017 - 09:32 PM.


#44994 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:43 PM

 

Okay. This is what you did with your edit:

 

You had Ten Tails, once again, Kill Elders. Plan passed on, and Naruto recovers like nothing happened.

 

Before, Naruto is trying to figure things out, the Hyuuga jump in, and tell him to focus. Then things get amped up.

 

You effectively destroyed any amping up.

 

Like, if you gave me two versions of this story, one with Neji dying and one without, every editor in my employ would pick the one with Neji. 

 

You also don't understand the Hero's Journey. The Hero's Journey -is- both plot structure and a metaphorical/physical journey. 614/615 are plot pushers, which you just destroyed in your "edit"

 

Don't know what you mean by "amping up" nor I am interested. The only thing that gets amped up is events leading towards Neji's death and Hinata's slap, both of which we're retconning. Naruto's recovery was a result of the kyuubi gathering up more chakra for him, which he's been doing since chapter 611. 

 

I understand the Hero's Journey and cited two cases of it occurring in this bloated story arc. Since you haven't addressed them, I'll assume we're in full agreement and that your concerns regarding 614/615 are simply a matter of personal taste as opposed to the plot's structural integrity.


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#44995 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 10:24 PM

Superman is boring. * Waits for Illnevergiveup's reply *
 

Goku is the protagonist in Dragon Ball.

 

 

I'd Say Goku is the boring one



#44996 FutureHalfofFamer

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 10:31 PM

 
Okay? I thought it was a cute story that gave the pairing a little bit of warmth at the end. 
 
 
 
Okay. This is what you did with your edit:
 
You had Ten Tails, once again, Kill Elders. Plan passed on, and Naruto recovers like nothing happened.
 
Before, Naruto is trying to figure things out, the Hyuuga jump in, and tell him to focus. Then things get amped up.
 
You effectively destroyed any amping up.
 
Like, if you gave me two versions of this story, one with Neji dying and one without, every editor in my employ would pick the one with Neji. 
 
You also don't understand the Hero's Journey. The Hero's Journey -is- both plot structure and a metaphorical/physical journey. 614/615 are plot pushers, which you just destroyed in your "edit". 
 
Also, how in the world was this subverted? 
 
You are better off trying to replace Neji's death, than replacing this scene. The scene is very strong. 


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#44997 FutureHalfofFamer

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 10:35 PM

:argh:
 
Uhm. Goku?

Nope. Superman stomps.

Edited by FutureHalfofFamer, 31 July 2017 - 10:35 PM.


#44998 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 10:37 PM

Nope. Superman stomps.

Indeed



#44999 Yyubie

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 11:45 PM

Break time , bit of cheerleaders dancing to cool everyone off

 

63ca7234d52de22a37716ba54d555ce87aba49d0

 

P.S : F sp for not including Ten ten , i always think Ten ten more attractive if she let her hair flow.


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#45000 Khaleesi

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 11:54 PM

Goku is the protagonist in Dragon Ball.

I know who he is :lmao: I was wondering if it was Goku the one who would won. Isn't he now kind of a god?

 

Nope. Superman stomps.

Elaborate.

Break time , bit of cheerleaders dancing to cool everyone off

 

63ca7234d52de22a37716ba54d555ce87aba49d0

 

P.S : F sp for not including Ten ten , i always think Ten ten more attractive if she let her hair flow.

Poor Ten- Ten :'(


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