54216 replies to this topic

[Khaleesi]

Also excuse my english, my phone always corrects the words to spanish (my native language) or another english words that shouldnt be there.

[sushi.]

So, "Analyzer", kek. I don't know you, but I'd like to hear your arguments about how NH and SS were end game all along. Straight to the point, please, try to limit falacies to 0

don't fall into the trap you'll never get out its a dark hole

[Khaleesi]

don't fall into the trap you'll never get out its a dark hole

Alice's rabbit hole? Ahahah. Maybe. I'm weak. I absolutely loove debating but I'm also terribly lazy. It's a contradicting combination...

[Khaleesi]

 

when Xerxes was able to persuade Leonidas to join him.

I was wondering which characters of which anime/manga had the same names than big History personalities and I just realized that there were any. So, sorry for being so slow I think I just got the joke!

[Yyubie]

I was wondering which characters of which anime/manga had the same names than big History personalities and I just realized that there were any. So, sorry for being so slow I think I just got the joke!

It's from a movie :

[VanitasDS76491]

I don't like the tag of Pro-Ender, mind, nor is this a fair description. I like the ending, but I acknowledge it has faults. it does still do the job of being nice and wrapped up.
 
Some people definitely have some illogical/unreasonable arguments they say now and then, but there are also some good ones. That is why I decided to start posting.
 
Crack ship is a bit of an insulting term, as it implies Narusaku was a joke, and I take offense to that. I prefer the term fanon ship.
 
And it's not my intention to get people to leave, nor can I make people do such a thing.

Question did you fail science class in 1St grade cause do you what happens in space when not in a suit?
And don't you know the rules when a series goes into space they suck unless your power rangers or James Bond. Plus space was never mentioned once in naruto and no don't say that filler arc in part 1 with the star village cause that doesn't count. The last was the first time space was ever mentioned in the series. So the last is bull kitten and full of plot holes.

[T XD]

Alice's rabbit hole? Ahahah. Maybe. I'm weak. I absolutely loove debating but I'm also terribly lazy. It's a contradicting combination...

What she's arguing and claiming : NH was planned all along; I don't know what she thinks of SS all in all.

Straight to the point by a single phrase : Every interaction you see from Hinata to Naruto and vice versa was a development as a pairing, and that Naruto had implied by actions that he has feelings for her in the manga.

[ThroughWithLove]

Naruto and Sasuke suffer the same thing in their bond as the above. It's one of the greater faults that originates from the original execution, notably brought by this editor's suggestion.

 

This is a point I've made quite often and fully agree with. I've never really bought the whole "brothers" bond. Comrades? Sure. Friends? Sure. Best friends? Maybe. But brothers? Even during the first valley of the end fight, it felt like it came out of nowhere. After that, I just don't buy Naruto's obsession with the dude.

[Shashank95]

Alice's rabbit hole? Ahahah. Maybe. I'm weak. I absolutely loove debating but I'm also terribly lazy. It's a contradicting combination...

Khaleesi, You need strong people like (R+L=J) and Ser Jorah Mormont at your side if you're going to battle this crazed beast!

[Shashank95]

 

SS is different: It has a foundation to stand on, which no non-canon pairing does, and makes sense, but its foundation that it stands on is weak, partially due to it being more of a told vs. shown sort of relationship which is actually similar to Naruto and Sasuke's bond, all in all. This is partially suffering of editor demands, which is where Sasuke and Sakura come from in the first place, and time constraints. You see elements of where it's explored, the Chuunin Exam Arcs where Sasuke under the influence of the cursed seal, goes in a cold rage, and Sakura, returns him back. But not much time is spent on where it comes from, nor is much time built building it up. But there's enough informed establishment that at the end of part one, SS makes sense, though the romance between the two suffers because it's not given much attention, a fault exacerbated when Sasuke goes away.

 

Naruto and Sasuke suffer the same thing in their bond as the above. It's one of the greater faults that originates from the original execution, notably brought by this editor's suggestion. And it's this wobbly execution which probably sources into the SS pairing's divisiveness. Add in Sakura's shadow issues, and it's definitely an imperfect painting. But the foundation still forms, makes it work, makes it make sense.

 

On the NH part, no, not every single panel is a moment of development, but my words of part one strongly show development. NH in contrast is more of a displayed bond, fairly well developed and executed but underutilized. Naruto's love for Hinata is displayed mind, and the foundation for that conclusion is there. See former linked reference. None of the canon pairings are without flaws, but I think NH and ST of the five have the least flaws in how they were woven in.

 

In conclusion: Both NH and SS pairings were planned to go the directions they culminated in, early on, cemented really by Kishi's own words.

Scans of these so called development and interactions. Otherwise, it's not logical, just your wishful thinking. Please provide scans to back your points up or as I said before, You're just twisting the narrative to fit whatever crazy interpretation you have.

[ultranx]

Question did you fail science class in 1St grade cause do you what happens in space when not in a suit?
And don't you know the rules when a series goes into space they suck unless your power rangers or James Bond. Plus space was never mentioned once in naruto and no don't say that filler arc in part 1 with the star village cause that doesn't count. The last was the first time space was ever mentioned in the series. So the last is bull kitten and full of plot holes.

not to mention they ripped off the cannon to the moon idea from paper mario thousand year door of all things

 

Edited by ultranx, 29 July 2017 - 05:07 AM.

[Kagomaru]

Off-Topic: Have any NS fans given the Rise of the Rokudaime Hokage a read?

[Khaleesi]

@Analyzer

Okay, I've read most of it. I'm too lazy and you write a lot, lmfao. Well, I'll first begin to say there are two principal points to discuss:

1. Does NH and SS make sense narrative-wise?

2. Did Kishimoto planned NH and SS from the beggining?

 

Those two points have nothing to do with each other, so they shouldn't be mixed up. Kishi could have planned any couple and execute it as poorly not to make sense. Agree on that?

 

1. I read of what you had to say about NH development. I agree on that there were not romantic development for any of the characters. But there was romantic implications from character A to B all over the manga. All of those times one-sided or what we know as paralelism (like when Sakura and what was the name of the red-head?   ran towards practically-dead Naruto and Sasuke respectively).

BUT I do not agree nor I see logic on your arguments over NH development meant to be a romantic one. All I see and that is a fact is that she, as you declared, isn't irrelevant. But that's actually all, there isn't anything special about their bond, to say, at much should be in the same line that Neji or Shikamaru (even when way more weight). Those two characters, just as Hinata, had their moments with only Naruto in intense situations. Were they also meant to be a possible romantic interest?  Hinata's relevance has always hang around making Naruto shine, as a lot of characters have fallen on at their respective moment. She's the typical kind-hearted shy girl that has a crush on the protagonist and will make sacrifices to get noticed. Of course there will be moments where Naruto should actually notice her (senpaaaai, kyaaaa  ) 

 

So, my thought is this. If you actually think there is any romantic development for anyone, which I agree, where do you get that NH was meant, narrative-wise, to be end-game? To prove this, there should be something special about NH, which there really isn't. As how I say there is as much relevance than Neji or Shikamaru. 

 

On another note, you say NS belongs to fanon. I won't question your love for NS since it doesn't matter, we are talking about what makes sense, aren't we? NS bond development is heavier and as special as Naruto's and Sasuke, based on decision-making moments, those two bonds are over Neji's, Shikamaru's and Hinata's with Naruto, or can you prove me wrong? Even if we can agree that Naruto and Sasuke's bond is only mouth-to-mouth, story-wise its only existence has affected the entire plot all over the manga.

 

So, please, tell me, how does NH and SS make sense again? I read about what yousaid about SS. If Sakura didn't end up with Naruto it would half-make sense for her to end up with Sasuke, that is if she had not make any personality growth, which I thought he had, but at the end didn't.

 

2. As for this point...well, as I've said before I don't really care about this. Mostly because any affirmation about this doesn't have enough proof to support it so I think about it as a waste of time as a whole. We can still discuss about it, recognising the subjetivity involving it. Why do I say this? Well, it's pretty obvious, isn't it?  There are two options: He planned NH and SS as end-game or he didn't. His first affirmation regarding this topic was made after the ending. I do not recall exactly the moment he refered when doing it so you gotta pardon me. He said something close to "I thought about NH and SS being the end-game after The Confession." Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was from this time or I believe the begginingof the war? that he realized he wanted to do this. So, by his own words defending the pairings, it was not always planned. Also if I recall correctly he also talked about how he did thought on making NS canon up until he turned to NH & SS. Also, adding the very controversial lines: "Besides, Sakura would be much terrible of a woman if she moved on."

 

Since I left this site not so long after the movie was released, please enlight me on where he said NH and SS were end-game all along. Probably would an interview after the one I've mentioned. Which makes his affirmations contradictory, thus not a reliable source for stablishing what it is a fact or not.

 

Get what I mean when I say this topic in particular is not worth discussing? Kishimoto really contradicts himself all over his interviews so I only get tired, to be honest.

 

 

Khaleesi, You need strong people like (R+L=J) and Ser Jorah Mormont at your side if you're going to battle this crazed beast!

Philip (if you know him) it's my Jorah! Heheh.

 

 

Off-Topic: Have any NS fans given the Rise of the Rokudaime Hokage a read?

"Disclaimer: I do not own Naruto, unfortunately."

 

Okay, I laughed.

Edited by Khaleesi, 29 July 2017 - 03:42 AM.

[Khaleesi]

kitten, it was sent before I could finish...

[Khaleesi]

They need to use edo tensei on albert einstein and then ask him how to lived in the moon without space ship and space suit.

 

They already break the law of physic which is human needs to breathe air to survive and there's no air in space. You are debating with a person that Likes this movie and she thinks it's good and There's nothing with it ..... you are debating with a person who thinks that human can breathe in space without space suit

What? When did she said that? 

[Yyubie]

What? When did she said that? 

Oh yeah deleted my bad.

[Khaleesi]

Oh yeah deleted my bad.

Tell me as close as you remember (:

[ultranx]

@Analyzer

Okay, I've read most of it. I'm too lazy and you write a lot, lmfao. Well, I'll first begin to say there are two principal points to discuss:

1. Does NH and SS make sense narrative-wise?

2. Did Kishimoto planned NH and SS from the beggining?

 

Those two points have nothing to do with each other, so they shouldn't be mixed up. Kishi could have planned any couple and execute it as poorly not to make sense. Agree on that?

 

1. I read of what you had to say about NH development. I agree on that there were not romantic development for any of the characters. But there was romantic implications from character A to B all over the manga. All of those times one-sided or what we know as paralelism (like when Sakura and what was the name of the red-head?   ran towards practically-dead Naruto and Sasuke respectively).

BUT I do not agree nor I see logic on your arguments over NH development meant to be a romantic one. All I see and that is a fact is that she, as you declared, isn't irrelevant. But that's actually all, there isn't anything special about their bond, to say, at much should be in the same line that Neji or Shikamaru (even when way more weight). Those two characters, just as Hinata, had their moments with only Naruto in intense situations. Were they also meant to be a possible romantic interest?  Hinata's relevance has always hang around making Naruto shine, as a lot of characters have fallen on at their respective moment. She's the typical kind-hearted shy girl that has a crush on the protagonist and will make sacrifices to get noticed. Of course there will be moments where Naruto should actually notice her (senpaaaai, kyaaaa  ) 

 

So, my thought is this. If you actually think there is any romantic development for anyone, which I agree, where do you get that NH was meant, narrative-wise, to be end-game? To prove this, there should be something special about NH, which there really isn't. As how I say there is as much relevance than Neji or Shikamaru. 

 

On another note, you say NS belongs to fanon. I won't question your love for NS since it doesn't matter, we are talking about what makes sense, aren't we? NS bond development is heavier and as special as Naruto's and Sasuke, based on decision-making moments, those two bonds are over Neji's, Shikamaru's and Hinata's with Naruto, or can you prove me wrong? Even if we can agree that Naruto and Sasuke's bond is only mouth-to-mouth, story-wise its only existence has affected the entire plot all over the manga.

 

So, please, tell me, how does NH and SS make sense again? I read about what yousaid about SS. If Sakura didn't end up with Naruto it would half-make sense for her to end up with Sasuke, that is if she had not make any personality growth, which I thought he had, but at the end didn't.

 

2. As for this point...well, as I've said before I don't really care about this. Mostly because any affirmation about this doesn't have enough proof to support it so I think about it as a waste of time as a whole. We can still discuss about it, recognising the subjetivity involving it. Why do I say this? Well, it's pretty obvious, isn't it?  There are two options: He planned NH and SS as end-game or he didn't. His first affirmation regarding this topic was made after the ending. I do not recall exactly the moment he refered when doing it so you gotta pardon me. He said something close to "I thought about NH and SS being the end-game after The Confession." Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was from this time or I believe the begginingof the war? that he realized he wanted to do this. So, by his own words defending the pairings, it was not always planned. Also if I recall correctly he also talked about how he did thought on making NS canon up until he turned to NH & SS. Also, adding the very controversial lines: "Besides, Sakura would be much terrible of a woman if she moved on."

 

Since I left this site not so long after the movie was released, please enlight me on where he said NH and SS were end-game all along. Probably would an interview after the one I've mentioned. Which makes his affirmations contradictory, thus not a reliable source for stablishing what it is a fact or not.

 

Get what I mean when I say this topic in particular is not worth discussing? Kishimoto really contradicts himself all over his interviews so I only get tired, to be honest.

 

 

Philip (if you know him) it's my Jorah! Heheh.

 

 

"Disclaimer: I do not own Naruto, unfortunately."

 

Okay, I laughed.

He said it in one of his interviews, yet he constantly contradicts himself and the one interview at the New York Comic Con that is impossible to mistranslate since it was in English, he proved the "His wife being like Sakura and angry at the ending," thing right and also talked about how NH wasn't planned at the beginning, yet these fools continue to believe those coverup interviews where he constantly lies. By these fools I mean the

pro-enders obviously, and that's in a not so rude way. xD

Edited by ultranx, 29 July 2017 - 08:51 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

What plot holes exactly?

The whole movie and forcing the hyuga in too late in the game and that kittening genjustu river scene, nothing in that movie makes sense. The whole thing is a big plot hole.

[VanitasDS76491]

This is too generic for me to discuss. Can you elaborate on how these are plot holes? What and where is the hole exactly?

Why bother you won't believe me and say it's not a plot hole.
Question did you know how science works cause them in space can't happen breathing in space and moving it high speeds can't happen that's work a shark roaring despite not having vocal cords or lungs.
Can you let me hate the ending, hinata and Sasuke along with everyone on this site who also hates them.